i don't think it's about how much 'good' material he has at all. he's bound to have

numerous songs, both old and new, that would have us foaming at the mount and

he knows it.

he hasn't released anything in a while because he feels that he should get some

decent money for releasing an album. and since he doesn't, or at least since he

feels like people are ripping him off by downloading his music for free, he's just

waiting and trying to see what will happen in the future.

same way he's been shopping albums around to newspapers and then talking in

interviews about how he gets his paycheck before the album is even released,

thus the album being "a success" before anyone even heard it.

i think it's safe to assume that prince feels an album isn't worth releasing if he's

not gonna get anything over 5 million for it.

the one and only reason his lotusflower website folded was that there were not

enough people signing up. thus, he'd have to release new music for only a few

hardcore fans who dished out 77 dollars.

when new subscriptions dwindled to a stop, he just pulled the plug on the whole

project. if he'd had 2 million people sign up, we'd still be getting a steady flow

of new and old stuff to this day, from that very site.

my guess is that if rolling stone US called him tomorrow and said "would you

consider releasing an album through our magazine as a covermount if we'd

pay you 5 million for the rights to do so?" we'd have a new album by the end

of may.

the 'new album' is already finished and he's probably got 2 more in the tube

right now. he's just thinking about a way to make a maximum amount of $$

before he releases it.

Wow - some real polarised views in this thread; Supposition that Prince has nothing current worthwhile releasing so why bother, versus he's saving the good stuff for when piracy can be controlled

Prince's official word back when he appeared on George Lopez is/ was he’s in “recording rehab” and is taking a break from writing and making music to see where the musical landscape goes next, which rather suggests the latter.

LF was only meant to be active for one year.

Efan said:

rdhull said:

You don't remember?

I don't know. Meth is a hell of a drug.

does anyone know whose idea Tony M. was? Warner Brothers or Prince?

i think that would say a lot

in response to other stuff

one listen to "extraloveable" and it should be clear that prince does not have an ear anymore ..

i get that some people like 1275stop like his recent output but i dont respect it

all prince needs is a good record .. thats it .. if it was good people would not be pissed and disappointed .. he would sell millions .. there are millions of fans who just want to buy a good prince record .. the only thing musicology on brought was slightly less embarassing music .. not good music

yes u are delusional if you think prince is still at the top of his game .. he wouldn't need to release thru newspapers if he was at the top of his game .. he is not holding out for some big pay day because the music does not warrant a big pay day .. prince knows it .. most of his fans know it .. and the ones that don't are delusional or have selective hearing ..

i will always concede that prince has good seed ideas but he has been ruining them with stupid lyrics bragging and crappy raps for decades .. thats why from gold on he's been mostly a rehash cartoonized 13 year olds superhero charicature of himself .. instead of a truly inspired and inspiring musician ..

i get the feeling it was prince idea to bring in Tony M. only because prince kept on rapping after that .. and injecting stupid cringe inducing dumb ass rapper bravado into everything

last but not least .. WHERE IS THE POETRY .. that gold experience review podcast pissed me off because they kept saying they dont even listen to the lyrics .. yeah i guess gold is a good album if you completely block out the lyrics .. i want that old prince poetry .. the good stuff .. he hasnt brought us good lyrics in a really really long time and that is why his last 2 decades have been a complete failure .. a true shame ... the warners team was a huge part of the success both comercially and artistically prince has acted like a spoiled child since he left them

If Prince would have stayed with Warners he would've been miserable and probably in so much debt to the company. With the record company operates these days how could anyone be so sure that Prince would have been better off. It's really no way to tell to be honest, but I just doubt PRince would be happy. I think Prince has done well for himself. Could he do better, ofcourse, but I see no signs that he's suffering. The only ones suffering are those who don't like his recent music but after not liking someone's output for 20 years, I think those fans should blame themselve for their misery at this point. Its not Prince's fault those people choose to stick around for so long. There are other artist out there. IMO.

TrevorAyer said:

wb was a pretty great record label .. i totally side with prince in terms of owning your "masters"

on the other hand prince was like 18 and had numerous chances to suceed before he finally broke thru in a big way .. they gave him freedom to produce his own way and take chances like releasing what was essentially a demo tape with dirty mind .. all of those early records had plenty of clunkers with a few good songs

there was a team behind promoting and performing those records and touring and videos and all that .. crystal ball would have been epic .. prince was right .. but emancipation was rubbish .. so prince was wrong

it was the right team at the right time that made prince the product that stood the test of time

prince on his own is just pushing out drivel .. maybe warnerbrothers rejected enough to push prince harder and without them he is just ego and technical skill with no passion .. seems that way to me

warners these days is just as bad tho .. not the same record co .. just like prince isnt the same musician .. just a big mess .. like prince records

it would be great to hear the prince team back together again but likely wont happen with the same cast of characters as before .. prince only releases music to pad his wallet these days, knowing a certain group will always shell out .. he hasnt made a grand artistic statement in a solid 20 years or more .. prince would be better off just releasing live records and outtakes from his prime than trying to push out anything new .. the well dried up a long time ago .. the fact that his releases come in newspapers instead of from an actual record label is a good sign of the level of delusion in prince and his fams ..

prince has too much money .. he would do well to give up some authority and let someone help shape his sound like his old revolution bandmates used to .. hes just not broke enough to let any critique in and all the girls drop their panties for renatos horrible jazz interludes as tho it was wendy tearing up computer blue ..

so prince i guess just keep on shopping for newspapers to sign u and give out ur records for free .. thats where ur music is at on the integrity scale .. still waiting for u to drop that masterpiece that shuts me up

I agree with most of what you write, I always saw WB a quality control without them, Prince is able to release a fart or a burp or whatever takes his fancy. Prince made a lot of music, but WB made sure only the good stuff came out..

Nah. On his own is cool. I just want Mr. Nelson to release music with full passion behind it. Like he has something to prove. Then and only then will we get an outstanding work.

Maybe his current output is not as great as past works, but are we in turn as good worker as we where at 30 or 50?

I don't want Mr. Nelson to surpass Purple Rain sales with any next project-just release music with passion and take the settings off safe and blow the roof off once more.

I always think it's funny when people blame WB for his lack of success. I am the biggest fan (since '83 / 5 yrs of age) and the stuff he has released since 1993 as been a little suspect. To be honest...since Purple Rain its been a hit or miss. I know we all like different albums and I am only talking about success as "#1 hit".

I saw a clip of Prince back in the day and he said "in one of my songs I said I don't care to win awards and that was because I wasn't wining any......". Prince likes to win awards, he likes to have hit albums, etc, etc.

Remember: "I'm not shooting a video until Clive Davis gets me a hit. Videos are not cheap and he promised me a hit.?

Remember: "I don't need a grammy" after he lost for N.E.W.S? Why were you there????

I have been in Paisley Park a lot of times.....he likes awards...they're everywhere.

He gave Musicology CD away (found a loop pole) so his album would get to the top of the charts.

He gave 20Ten away because it wasn't that good.

He is human and he isn't going to sit up and say "I suck". So, when stuff isn't working out he blames others and says he doesn't care. I don't blame him.

I remember I was with some older cats one day in 1992 and they were talking about the Love album and he "I like my name is prince, that's my jam. It's a good album, the problem is nobody likes Prince". To be honest...it's true. He has us "die hards" and a few more fans due to a BRILLIANT Musicology tour (and his gift for live performance), but no one is waiting for the next Prince album....I am but you know what I mean.

I wish he was on a big label so we could have some videos, some great marketing, etc. Shoot, back in the day everything seemed cool because there were posters and signs up everywhere even if the album sucked. LOL!!!!!

i think part of the problem was bad timing. he finally won his freedom, and then not long after that with the coming of illegal downloading (and other factors) made it harder to make any money on albums. i think if he had got his freedom in, lets say 1992, it would have been a very different story, and you would have seen endless releases from him.

as for the vault, and quality of recordings there, hes never really been someone to look to his past, and hes a different person now, maybe he just doesnt feel those songs are relevant

[Edited 3/18/12 19:43pm]

savagedreams said:

i think part of the problem was bad timing. he finally won his freedom, and then not long after that with the coming of illegal downloading (and other factors) made it harder to make any money on albums. i think if he had got his freedom in, lets say 1992, it would have been a very different story, and you would have seen endless releases from him.

as for the vault, and quality of recordings there, hes never really been someone to look to his past, and hes a different person now, maybe he just doesnt feel those songs are relevant

[Edited 3/18/12 19:43pm]

True. I also think after Diamonds and Pearls he was beliving his own hype again. LoveSexy = failure, Batman = Success, Grafitti Bridge album = failure, Grafitti Bride movie = failure, Diamonds and Pearls = Success, Love Album = failure. Not too good of a list. So, winning his freedom in 1992 I don't think would have helped anymore. He lost all of the backing and support a lot of his albums be such a success.

I wish he would just do his own website and release his music there. Nothing fancy just plain like most other artists and have a download store. Put up one or two download only albums per year at 10 bucks each. I think a safe number to say would be that he would get 200,000 downloads per album. Thats two million dollars per album just at 200,000 sales worldwide(which it would be more than that worldwide). That is EASY for him. He is definately not the brightest businessman for sure.

vinx98 said:

TrevorAyer said:

wb was a pretty great record label .. i totally side with prince in terms of owning your "masters"

on the other hand prince was like 18 and had numerous chances to suceed before he finally broke thru in a big way .. they gave him freedom to produce his own way and take chances like releasing what was essentially a demo tape with dirty mind .. all of those early records had plenty of clunkers with a few good songs

there was a team behind promoting and performing those records and touring and videos and all that .. crystal ball would have been epic .. prince was right .. but emancipation was rubbish .. so prince was wrong

it was the right team at the right time that made prince the product that stood the test of time

prince on his own is just pushing out drivel .. maybe warnerbrothers rejected enough to push prince harder and without them he is just ego and technical skill with no passion .. seems that way to me

warners these days is just as bad tho .. not the same record co .. just like prince isnt the same musician .. just a big mess .. like prince records

it would be great to hear the prince team back together again but likely wont happen with the same cast of characters as before .. prince only releases music to pad his wallet these days, knowing a certain group will always shell out .. he hasnt made a grand artistic statement in a solid 20 years or more .. prince would be better off just releasing live records and outtakes from his prime than trying to push out anything new .. the well dried up a long time ago .. the fact that his releases come in newspapers instead of from an actual record label is a good sign of the level of delusion in prince and his fams ..

prince has too much money .. he would do well to give up some authority and let someone help shape his sound like his old revolution bandmates used to .. hes just not broke enough to let any critique in and all the girls drop their panties for renatos horrible jazz interludes as tho it was wendy tearing up computer blue ..

so prince i guess just keep on shopping for newspapers to sign u and give out ur records for free .. thats where ur music is at on the integrity scale .. still waiting for u to drop that masterpiece that shuts me up

I agree with most of what you write, I always saw WB a quality control without them, Prince is able to release a fart or a burp or whatever takes his fancy. Prince made a lot of music, but WB made sure only the good stuff came out..

To an extent this was Prince's point-when WB changed management he wanted out-they had been a nurturing company but seemed to wake up to hardcore business in the 90's. People here are saying that if Prince released good music then people would go buy it-I really dont think that is true, apart from Madonna And Bruce Springsteen I think most music artists have their day in the sun regardless of the quality of their music. Chart hits are really more about exposure-you listen to a Rihanna song or more extremely something like a Black Eye Peas track and they are no better than a recent Prince release-the differenece is they are played. On chart level people don't go seeking music they buy what they know-they have lives and don't really care. If Prince was part of a record company I think they could market him to a middle age audience.

1725topp said:

TrevorAyer said:

emancipation was rubbish .. so prince was wrong

it was the right team at the right time that made prince the product that stood the test of time

prince on his own is just pushing out drivel ..

he hasnt made a grand artistic statement in a solid 20 years or more .. prince would be better off just releasing live records and outtakes from his prime than trying to push out anything new .. the well dried up a long time ago .. the fact that his releases come in newspapers instead of from an actual record label is a good sign of the level of delusion in prince and his fams ..

I just continue to find it interesting that anybody who likes Prince's current output or likes what he has done over the past twenty years is called "delusional" by you or an ass kisser by others, and y'all wonder why people always comment about the vile hate that exists on this cite. It's one thing to say that you don't like his current work, but to call someone delusional for liking something is a level of arrogance and nastiness that can rarely be surpassed. And, I’m amazed by it because I never consider calling someone a name just because they don’t agree with me or like what I like.

*

Secondly, I love Emancipation, think Crystal Ball is solid--not great, and think that The Rainbow Children, Musicology, and Lotusflow3r/MPLS are grand artistic statements, and I've been a Prince fan since 1980.

*

I also realize that Prince is fifty-two, seems not to be interested in returning to his past, seems to enjoy his current path, and, at fifty-two, has earned the right (financially and artistically) to release albums and tour when he wants because he is fifty-two, had a bunch of hit songs and sold out tours, has won just about every award one can win, and he is fifty-two. So, it doesn't surprise me that his releases have slowed and become less frequent. And, it seems silly for anyone--not that this was your point--to want Prince to release music and tour like he is in his twenties.

*

Finally, you are correct that Warner Bros has changed just as Prince has changed because technology, hip hop, and the accountants that manage these record companies have changed the industry to something completely different than what it was twenty years ago. For one, there is no such thing as artist development, and no company, far as I know, is investing money into new albums by older artists to sell to the adult contemporary crowd, mostly because the adult contemporary crowd has all the music that they plan to purchase, except getting remasters of work by their favorite artists or the occasional new music from their favorite artists. So, financially speaking, there is really no reason that Prince would have a deal with Warner Bros or any record company because they are not in the business of older artists. Whether one likes Prince's new music or not, he is, for the most part, right where history says he should be, recording and touring when he so desires with his fans split on whether or not his new music is as good as his older music.

What you said is outstanding. "Change" is something we seem to have a hard time dealing with in any facet of life and the whole dynamic of Prince & WB has changed quite a bit from when he was writing slave on his face. If we study the whole business model for artists today none of it makes any sense anymore and Prince saw this coming years ago. The joy I have experienced with his music allows me to accept whatever output he gives us these days and to me whatever we receive now at this point in his career is a BONUS.

no see .. whatever we recieve now is not a "bonus" it is a detraction from the legend and sanctity of prince as an artist and musician

its like when ur favorite actor starts doing really bad movies .. one after the other .. its no longer .. oh eddie murphy is fuckin great .. it becomes .. what the hell was that .. and then .. oh shrek was cute .. glad eddie is now making money even tho it is as a cartoon donkey .. not the genius behind raw and beverly hills cop ..

prince is a cartoon donkey now .. some of us think he can do better and some of us would rather not see prince reputation sooo damaged

i have always loved his controversial ideas .. internet, slave, vegan, microchip, all of it .. yet the fams think that is his downfall and not his crappy music

his new music is so fucking uninspired and repetative .. one great thing about warners was they were committed to the artistic integrity of most groups they signed .. it wasnt about churning out radio friendly crap .. prince is now tame easy listening bland garbage .. its not good when kesha and riri come up with better pop hooks than prince .. its a sad sad state .. yeah they both suck but prince music these days is far worse .. its not marketing .. its bad songwriting .. he needs to put out music no one can deny .. can he anymore?

dandeeland said:

he is struggling to make anything good enough to release these days so it makes sense not to release it. If he kept putting out subpar material worse than what he has put out people would just bitch even more than they do now. Why put out stuff for his fans to just shred him. If I was Prince I would say fuck em(which is what he has done). Its our own fault. Im guilty too. He had a great career and we should be thankful for he has given us

Everyone snortin' the Purple Kool-Aid needs to recognise this post.

'dre

i have no problem with what he's put out since leaving WB. the thing is it's the old addage...."be careful what you wish for". it feels like once he got his freedom, he lost his inspiration and competitive egde. while he was fighting with WB, the musical landscaped change. the ones who inspired and pushed him had all moved on.....instead of soul, r&b, and funk, it is now hip hop, techno, and modern dance. he has nothing to prove to these people. the stuff these guys put out prince can do in his sleep. he's not up to the task of pushing the envelope musically anymore, i mean, finding that "new" sound like he did in the 80's, he's not the innovator he once was, now it just seems like he's content to rest on his lourels(sp?)

the real question is...."is he still relevent?" where i'm from, "the most beautiful girl" was the last "new" release i heard on local top 40 radio. they won't play his new stuff........at all. even classic radio only plays the same 5 songs..."1999", "little red corvette", "when doves cry", "lets go crazy", and "purple rain". now if i go into bigger cities (detroit and or cleveland
) where they have more diversity in there local stations i hear his new stuff more often. he doesn't get played in smaller markets. i work with people who don't realise he still puts out new music, because they don't hear him. they thought he stopped in the mid 90's.

TrevorAyer said:

no see .. whatever we recieve now is not a "bonus" it is a detraction from the legend and sanctity of prince as an artist and musician

its like when ur favorite actor starts doing really bad movies .. one after the other .. its no longer .. oh eddie murphy is fuckin great .. it becomes .. what the hell was that .. and then .. oh shrek was cute .. glad eddie is now making money even tho it is as a cartoon donkey .. not the genius behind raw and beverly hills cop ..

prince is a cartoon donkey now .. some of us think he can do better and some of us would rather not see prince reputation sooo damaged

i have always loved his controversial ideas .. internet, slave, vegan, microchip, all of it .. yet the fams think that is his downfall and not his crappy music

his new music is so fucking uninspired and repetative .. one great thing about warners was they were committed to the artistic integrity of most groups they signed .. it wasnt about churning out radio friendly crap .. prince is now tame easy listening bland garbage ..

Ironically enough, when Prince was with Warners his songs were considered radio friendly, well at least during the most of the 80's. He's no bland garbage these days, well maybe to you but not to me, certainly. This happens to basically 99% if not ALL artists when they get old. Fans complain with the newer material and they're bored like hell. Maybe you should consider moving on from Prince completely, and dig another artist.

its not good when kesha and riri come up with better pop hooks than prince .. its a sad sad state .. yeah they both suck but prince music these days is far worse .. its not marketing .. its bad songwriting .. he needs to put out music no one can deny .. can he anymore?

That's a lie, and you know it. What is your standard of good pop music? Chart position? MTV? Rolling Stone reviews? Let the lyrics, singing and music itself make you judge. Rihanna and Kesha may have a couple or three catchy songs out but their albums are overly cohesive to the point where all songs pretty much sound the same. Not to mention they can't sing one song without autotune. I consider songs like Future Soul Song, Planet Earth, Somewhere Here on Earth, Here, Love like Jazz, 4ever,....to be interesting and pretty strong materials.

prime said:

I always think it's funny when people blame WB for his lack of success. I am the biggest fan (since '83 / 5 yrs of age) and the stuff he has released since 1993 as been a little suspect. To be honest...since Purple Rain its been a hit or miss. I know we all like different albums and I am only talking about success as "#1 hit".

I saw a clip of Prince back in the day and he said "in one of my songs I said I don't care to win awards and that was because I wasn't wining any......". Prince likes to win awards, he likes to have hit albums, etc, etc.

Remember: "I'm not shooting a video until Clive Davis gets me a hit. Videos are not cheap and he promised me a hit.?

Remember: "I don't need a grammy" after he lost for N.E.W.S? Why were you there????

I have been in Paisley Park a lot of times.....he likes awards...they're everywhere.

He gave Musicology CD away (found a loop pole) so his album would get to the top of the charts.

He gave 20Ten away because it wasn't that good.

He is human and he isn't going to sit up and say "I suck". So, when stuff isn't working out he blames others and says he doesn't care. I don't blame him.

I remember I was with some older cats one day in 1992 and they were talking about the Love album and he "I like my name is prince, that's my jam. It's a good album, the problem is nobody likes Prince". To be honest...it's true. He has us "die hards" and a few more fans due to a BRILLIANT Musicology tour (and his gift for live performance), but no one is waiting for the next Prince album....I am but you know what I mean.

I wish he was on a big label so we could have some videos, some great marketing, etc. Shoot, back in the day everything seemed cool because there were posters and signs up everywhere even if the album sucked. LOL!!!!!

A big misconception is that Prince found a "Loop Hole" for getting Musicology to the top of the charts. He brilliantly decided to give away the CD with every ticket sold. End of chapter.

It wasn't until after that fact that it was decided that each would count as a "sold" cd. That decision wasn't made by Prince or his people, but by soundscan.

20Ten was given away by the british paper with every bought copy of the paper. Prince didn't give it away, he got paid upfront, by the paper. Again, brilliant move.

My only concern is that these one-off deals that he's been going for are too one-sided favoring Prince.

That's why he's had no repeat business. It doesn't make fiscal sense for the investment side, because, ultimately, you will make your money back on the sales of the product (with no marketing from Prince).

He spends most of his time knockin on doors with Larry, I'd guess. Religion stinks..lol

lmao!!!

Revolution said:

prime said:

I always think it's funny when people blame WB for his lack of success. I am the biggest fan (since '83 / 5 yrs of age) and the stuff he has released since 1993 as been a little suspect. To be honest...since Purple Rain its been a hit or miss. I know we all like different albums and I am only talking about success as "#1 hit".

I saw a clip of Prince back in the day and he said "in one of my songs I said I don't care to win awards and that was because I wasn't wining any......". Prince likes to win awards, he likes to have hit albums, etc, etc.

Remember: "I'm not shooting a video until Clive Davis gets me a hit. Videos are not cheap and he promised me a hit.?

Remember: "I don't need a grammy" after he lost for N.E.W.S? Why were you there????

I have been in Paisley Park a lot of times.....he likes awards...they're everywhere.

He gave Musicology CD away (found a loop pole) so his album would get to the top of the charts.

He gave 20Ten away because it wasn't that good.

He is human and he isn't going to sit up and say "I suck". So, when stuff isn't working out he blames others and says he doesn't care. I don't blame him.

I remember I was with some older cats one day in 1992 and they were talking about the Love album and he "I like my name is prince, that's my jam. It's a good album, the problem is nobody likes Prince". To be honest...it's true. He has us "die hards" and a few more fans due to a BRILLIANT Musicology tour (and his gift for live performance), but no one is waiting for the next Prince album....I am but you know what I mean.

I wish he was on a big label so we could have some videos, some great marketing, etc. Shoot, back in the day everything seemed cool because there were posters and signs up everywhere even if the album sucked. LOL!!!!!

A big misconception is that Prince found a "Loop Hole" for getting Musicology to the top of the charts. He brilliantly decided to give away the CD with every ticket sold. End of chapter.

It wasn't until after that fact that it was decided that each would count as a "sold" cd. That decision wasn't made by Prince or his people, but by soundscan.

20Ten was given away by the british paper with every bought copy of the paper. Prince didn't give it away, he got paid upfront, by the paper. Again, brilliant move.

My only concern is that these one-off deals that he's been going for are too one-sided favoring Prince.

That's why he's had no repeat business. It doesn't make fiscal sense for the investment side, because, ultimately, you will make your money back on the sales of the product (with no marketing from Prince).

Trust me...he knew. He didn't wake up one day and say "wow, they're counting them?!? Cool!"

wb really was a badass record co. Prince, Madonna, Van Halen.. Heavy weights.

goto the Van Halen official site they have an intv about the deal they had with WB.. They sold a million records and WB wanted 2 million dollars in Fee's from them!! Fuck that.. Eddie asked them if he sells 10 million more will they want 20 million dollars!

it just goes to show that money is the devil and it even affects the Jehovas. Prince was once a great artist, now he is just a greedy who cares nothing about the art anymore. What a pity for the fans. Thank goodness there are many other artists(at least for me) that have taken his place and filled the void in my life. I do wish though that Prince would come back but I think he is too far gone

After more than 2 decades of mostly mediocrity there's really no hope for a great Prince record anymore.

Wasn't Prince at WB when, after years of declining sales, Lovesexy tanked so badly that he had to attach himself to the Batman project to boost his commercial status?

Was that sagging commerical status a reflection of the quality/artistic work before it? Nope. So why do people point to Prince's (or anyone's) record sales as an indication of quality nowadays?

Seems to me that WB should have been able to promote/push Prince records in the 80's to much higher sales than they actually did. Take off the rose tinted glasses...how much did Sign O' The Times sell in the USA in 1987? That's merely 3 years after Purple Rain. That's his best album. That's shocking.

Seems to me that, if WB gets any credit for Prince's success from 1978-1996, then they get the blame for his failures too.

[Edited 5/8/12 7:27am]

NouveauDance said:

His ideas about releasing music have obviously changed throughout the years.

Besides getting knocked back once or twice when he wanted to flood the market rather than promote the current release - WB pretty much let him do as he pleased within reason.

And you're right - him going independent was definately more about him retaining control and a larger cut, rather than the "free the music" blub-blub he was spouting during the period he was burning through eyeliner writing slave on his face.