I thought part of the reason why he left Warners was so he could music and release it without having to ask them? I thought that they were slowing down his output and that getting out of the contract would enable him to release more music?

In six years he has released 3121, Planet Earth and LotusFlower/MPLSound in the USA and I guess that we can count 20ten. I absolutely love all of those albums except for 20ten, so I have no complaints there.

But, if he is going to reduce his output to ensure quality over quantity, then he might as well have stayed with Warners. At the end of the day, his emancipation seems to be more about the fact that he gets a bigger cut rather than his artistic control.

I'm good because it seems like we are getting some good boots every month or so, but the quantity of Prince's output has been disappointing the past 6 years or so.

[Edited 3/16/12 11:31am]

His ideas about releasing music have obviously changed throughout the years.

Besides getting knocked back once or twice when he wanted to flood the market rather than promote the current release - WB pretty much let him do as he pleased within reason.

And you're right - him going independent was definately more about him retaining control and a larger cut, rather than the "free the music" blub-blub he was spouting during the period he was burning through eyeliner writing slave on his face.

Well - he certainly now releases what he damn well pleases 'warts and all'

He also works with who he wants, promotes if/ when he can be bothered, and tours the hits endlessly so i guess he gets to do things at his own pace.

- nail on head with, 'his emancipation seems to be more about the fact that he gets a bigger cut rather than his artistic control".

[Edited 3/16/12 10:44am]

NouveauDance said:

And you're right - him going independent was definately more about him retaining control and a larger cut, rather than the "free the music" blub-blub he was spouting during the period he was burning through eyeliner writing slave on his face.

Why are folks still holding Prince to things he did/stated almost 20 years ago. ..and as if he didn't release an abundance of music since then.

wb was a pretty great record label .. i totally side with prince in terms of owning your "masters"

on the other hand prince was like 18 and had numerous chances to suceed before he finally broke thru in a big way .. they gave him freedom to produce his own way and take chances like releasing what was essentially a demo tape with dirty mind .. all of those early records had plenty of clunkers with a few good songs

there was a team behind promoting and performing those records and touring and videos and all that .. crystal ball would have been epic .. prince was right .. but emancipation was rubbish .. so prince was wrong

it was the right team at the right time that made prince the product that stood the test of time

prince on his own is just pushing out drivel .. maybe warnerbrothers rejected enough to push prince harder and without them he is just ego and technical skill with no passion .. seems that way to me

warners these days is just as bad tho .. not the same record co .. just like prince isnt the same musician .. just a big mess .. like prince records

it would be great to hear the prince team back together again but likely wont happen with the same cast of characters as before .. prince only releases music to pad his wallet these days, knowing a certain group will always shell out .. he hasnt made a grand artistic statement in a solid 20 years or more .. prince would be better off just releasing live records and outtakes from his prime than trying to push out anything new .. the well dried up a long time ago .. the fact that his releases come in newspapers instead of from an actual record label is a good sign of the level of delusion in prince and his fams ..

prince has too much money .. he would do well to give up some authority and let someone help shape his sound like his old revolution bandmates used to .. hes just not broke enough to let any critique in and all the girls drop their panties for renatos horrible jazz interludes as tho it was wendy tearing up computer blue ..

so prince i guess just keep on shopping for newspapers to sign u and give out ur records for free .. thats where ur music is at on the integrity scale .. still waiting for u to drop that masterpiece that shuts me up

TrevorAyer said:

wb was a pretty great record label ..

The best imo.

I respectfully disagree: dogma aside TRC is said statement to my ears. But I agree with the thrust of your argument; It does semmPrince has lost the hunger he had in 80's and 90's...

TrevorAyer said:

he hasnt made a grand artistic statement in a solid 20 years or more ..

80spfantwp said:

I respectfully disagree: dogma aside TRC is said statement to my ears. But I agree with the thrust of your argument; It does semmPrince has lost the hunger he had in 80's and 90's...

TrevorAyer said:

he hasnt made a grand artistic statement in a solid 20 years or more ..

TRC and to some extent, Emancipation (though blundered).

I was listening to the 2002 Xenophobia boot and he was talking about how he can make music and serve it up fresh to his fans as soon as he is done with it. I like that he gets to own his masters and he is getting paid. But, his legacy is his music and I was most excited about getting access to more work from my hero and a true legend.

The past several years has been no different than any other period. We get a great album every year or two. I love that, but I thought things would change and we would get more live recordings, videos, studio jam sessions, etc. Instead, we are just getting his filtered stuff.

donnyenglish said:

I love that, but I thought things would change and we would get more live recordings, videos, studio jam sessions, etc. Instead, we are just getting his filtered stuff.

Time/yall have proven to him you did not like that so he stopped.

rdhull said:

donnyenglish said:

I love that, but I thought things would change and we would get more live recordings, videos, studio jam sessions, etc. Instead, we are just getting his filtered stuff.

Time/yall have proven to him you did not like that so he stopped.

Wait, when did we prove to him we did not like live recordings, videos, and studio jam sessions?

Efan said:

rdhull said:

Time/yall have proven to him you did not like that so he stopped.

Wait, when did we prove to him we did not like live recordings, videos, and studio jam sessions?

You don't remember?

Efan said:

rdhull said:

Time/yall have proven to him you did not like that so he stopped.

Wait, when did we prove to him we did not like live recordings, videos, and studio jam sessions?

As far as I know, we didn't. I certainly didn't. Having said that, if he has another go any time soon, I can do without it being 60% Shelby and a monologue about tampons.

rdhull said:

Efan said:

Wait, when did we prove to him we did not like live recordings, videos, and studio jam sessions?

You don't remember?

I don't know. Meth is a hell of a drug.

erik319 said:

Efan said:

Wait, when did we prove to him we did not like live recordings, videos, and studio jam sessions?

As far as I know, we didn't. I certainly didn't. Having said that, if he has another go any time soon, I can do without it being 60% Shelby and a monologue about tampons.

Yall don't remember complaints about new songs he had just written and then got clowned for...and rmemeber Guitar from thj e club before he reworked it? Etc Etc...folks were quick to criticise etc. Yall know how sensitive he is about hsi art. Right?

Efan said:

rdhull said:

You don't remember?

I don't know. Meth is a hell of a drug.

I dont partake in that drug.

rdhull said:

Yall don't remember complaints about new songs he had just written and then got clowned for...and rmemeber Guitar from thj e club before he reworked it? Etc Etc...folks were quick to criticise etc. Yall know how sensitive he is about hsi art. Right?

Prince doesn't work like that....he creates and puts it out (sometimes). He knows by now that there are always going to be people that aren't happy with the end-product.

donnyenglish said:

I thought part of the reason why he left Warners was so he could music and release it without having to ask them? I thought that they were slowing down his output and that getting out of the contract would enable him to release more music?

In six years he has released 3121, Planet Earth and LotusFlower/MPLSound in the USA and I guess that we can count 20ten. I absolutely love all of those albums except for 20ten, so I have no complaints there.

But, if he is going to reduce his output to ensure quality over quantity, then he might as well have stayed with Warners. At the end of the day, his emancipation seems to be more about the fact that he gets a bigger cut rather than his artistic control.

I'm good because it seems like we are getting some good boots every month or so, but the quantity of Prince's output has been disappointing the past 6 years or so.

[Edited 3/16/12 11:31am]

Prince released a lot of stuff between 1996 and 2002: not necessarly more than when he was with WB (including side-projects), but stuff that wasn't necessarly made to be profitable. The pace has slowed down since 2003 but we still get an average one album a year, which is more than most artists.

I find it difficult to judge a decision that was made in 1993, and its motives, under the light of what's happening in 2012.

Prince felt WB wasn't putting enough energy in promoting his music and he couldn't stand the idea of them saying no to him (which they did more and more, year after year). At first it had little to do with quantity, it was mostly about artistic freedom and money.

I always thought it was strange that he left WB 2 be free and release what he want and then releases The Most Beautiful Girl.....the slickest hit record in he ever made!!!

Ok,maybe he wanted 2 proove that he could have a hit without WB....but NOT the kind of music I expected from someone who wanted "artistic freedom".

BTW; it was his last hit and not his best anyway!

Paisley4u said:

I always thought it was strange that he left WB 2 be free and release what he want and then releases The Most Beautiful Girl.....the slickest hit record in he ever made!!!

Ok,maybe he wanted 2 proove that he could have a hit without WB....but NOT the kind of music I expected from someone who wanted "artistic freedom".

BTW; it was his last hit and not his best anyway!

Call My Name was a hit, at least on R&B stations in the U.S. Even Satisfied did pretty well on the radio in Oakland where I was living at the time.

But back to the question at hand, it's frustrating that since he left WB he hasn't released as much music as one might've hoped. Basically, he had three super, super, creative moments in his life in terms of making a massive amount of high quality recordings: 1981-1983, 1985-1986, 1992-1995. I'm looking forward to that next burst. Hopefully, there'll be at least one.

"He might as well be at Warners", isn't that like the most horrible thing you can wish for Prince as a fan? WB controlled him in so many different ways and they wanted him to release an album, and then spend at least 1 or 2 years promoting it whether by touring or releasing music videos. But by the time the album was out, he was already ready to release another album, or at least moved on from the previous album and working on completely different project. Honestly, I don't think that emancipation was ever about releasing as many materials as Prince himself wishes to, but it has more to do with mental stress and pressure WB caused him. If he wants to stop promoting an album and move on to something new, he should have freedom to do so. I know a lot of his fans think that's being a bad business man but isn't it obvious by now he doesn't really care how commercially successful his albums get?

Emancipation89 said:

"He might as well be at Warners", isn't that like the most horrible thing you can wish for Prince as a fan? WB controlled him in so many different ways and they wanted him to release an album, and then spend at least 1 or 2 years promoting it whether by touring or releasing music videos.

Yeah, how awful. Warn-a-Brotha had him promoting a release, toring behind it, with songs for the latest album being a major part of the set list, videos made with quality by trained professional staff, singles made and pressed with b-side extras to have as an added bonus, and pristine record packaging. Yeah, the most horrible thing to ever wish for.

rdhull said:

Emancipation89 said:

"He might as well be at Warners", isn't that like the most horrible thing you can wish for Prince as a fan? WB controlled him in so many different ways and they wanted him to release an album, and then spend at least 1 or 2 years promoting it whether by touring or releasing music videos.

Yeah, how awful. Warn-a-Brotha had him promoting a release, toring behind it, with songs for the latest album being a major part of the set list, videos made with quality by trained professional staff, singles made and pressed with b-side extras to have as an added bonus, and pristine record packaging. Yeah, the most horrible thing to ever wish for.

I believe in artists having freedom to do whatever they want. Do you know what the relationship was exactly like between Prince and WB? I know I don't, but I understand him not wanting to get demands from his record label. He pays the money that he owes by record loyalty, and yet the only thing record companies seem to be really interested in is making as much money as possible. That's obviously not Prince's primary interest, which is one of the things I really respect him for.

Emancipation89 said:

rdhull said:

Yeah, how awful. Warn-a-Brotha had him promoting a release, toring behind it, with songs for the latest album being a major part of the set list, videos made with quality by trained professional staff, singles made and pressed with b-side extras to have as an added bonus, and pristine record packaging. Yeah, the most horrible thing to ever wish for.

I believe in artists having freedom to do whatever they want. Do you know what the relationship was exactly like between Prince and WB? I know I don't, but I understand him not wanting to get demands from his record label. He pays the money that he owes by record loyalty, and yet the only thing record companies seem to be really interested in is making as much money as possible. That's obviously not Prince's primary interest, which is one of the things I really respect him for.

TrevorAyer said:

emancipation was rubbish .. so prince was wrong

it was the right team at the right time that made prince the product that stood the test of time

prince on his own is just pushing out drivel ..

he hasnt made a grand artistic statement in a solid 20 years or more .. prince would be better off just releasing live records and outtakes from his prime than trying to push out anything new .. the well dried up a long time ago .. the fact that his releases come in newspapers instead of from an actual record label is a good sign of the level of delusion in prince and his fams ..

I just continue to find it interesting that anybody who likes Prince's current output or likes what he has done over the past twenty years is called "delusional" by you or an ass kisser by others, and y'all wonder why people always comment about the vile hate that exists on this cite. It's one thing to say that you don't like his current work, but to call someone delusional for liking something is a level of arrogance and nastiness that can rarely be surpassed. And, I’m amazed by it because I never consider calling someone a name just because they don’t agree with me or like what I like.

*

Secondly, I love Emancipation, think Crystal Ball is solid--not great, and think that The Rainbow Children, Musicology, and Lotusflow3r/MPLS are grand artistic statements, and I've been a Prince fan since 1980.

*

I also realize that Prince is fifty-two, seems not to be interested in returning to his past, seems to enjoy his current path, and, at fifty-two, has earned the right (financially and artistically) to release albums and tour when he wants because he is fifty-two, had a bunch of hit songs and sold out tours, has won just about every award one can win, and he is fifty-two. So, it doesn't surprise me that his releases have slowed and become less frequent. And, it seems silly for anyone--not that this was your point--to want Prince to release music and tour like he is in his twenties.

*

Finally, you are correct that Warner Bros has changed just as Prince has changed because technology, hip hop, and the accountants that manage these record companies have changed the industry to something completely different than what it was twenty years ago. For one, there is no such thing as artist development, and no company, far as I know, is investing money into new albums by older artists to sell to the adult contemporary crowd, mostly because the adult contemporary crowd has all the music that they plan to purchase, except getting remasters of work by their favorite artists or the occasional new music from their favorite artists. So, financially speaking, there is really no reason that Prince would have a deal with Warner Bros or any record company because they are not in the business of older artists. Whether one likes Prince's new music or not, he is, for the most part, right where history says he should be, recording and touring when he so desires with his fans split on whether or not his new music is as good as his older music.

rdhull said:

Emancipation89 said:

I believe in artists having freedom to do whatever they want. Do you know what the relationship was exactly like between Prince and WB? I know I don't, but I understand him not wanting to get demands from his record label. He pays the money that he owes by record loyalty, and yet the only thing record companies seem to be really interested in is making as much money as possible. That's obviously not Prince's primary interest, which is one of the things I really respect him for.

Yes I do know what the relationship was between WB and Prince. BTW, who do you think built Paisley Park?

Because of all the support his record label showed him through out the years, they should have right to control Prince artistically to the extent P felt like he was working for them, not for the love of music? I'm not denying those great years that they had but obviously they fell apart, and again, I understand him wanting to have total control on his materials and own them as well.

So if you do know like you insist, let me ask, how exactly WB told Prince when they wanted him to promote an album? Did they ever blame him for his later albums not being as successful as Purple Rain and criticized harshly on his materials for not being "commercial" enough? I'm honestly curious because that's what's been happening to many great artists.

[Edited 3/17/12 20:23pm]

rdhull said:

Why are folks still holding Prince to things he did/stated almost 20 years ago. ..and as if he didn't release an abundance of music since then.

he is struggling to make anything good enough to release these days so it makes sense not to release it. If he kept putting out subpar material worse than what he has put out people would just bitch even more than they do now. Why put out stuff for his fans to just shred him. If I was Prince I would say fuck em(which is what he has done). Its our own fault. Im guilty too. He had a great career and we should be thankful for he has given us