You probably all know how much I love to bash the Rainbow children album and yes some of the venom I have spouted has been childish in the extreme, but I am listening to it in its entirety and despite the very objectionable subject matter, its as funky as all hell.

Its actually very good, I am lifting it from a 2/10 up to 7/10. Why because most of the songs are funky and jazzy and he's having fun. Theres not bad rapping or trend chasing or any of the other 90s crap, its really his first mature record.

Also I think he's doing this album without wanting to impress anyone, Prince as the non conformist rebel, here he is taking Jehovahs witness and funking and jazzing it up. I have also relaised, that liking it dosen't make me a Jehovahs Witness.

Its so mellow, the jazzy grooves, funky bass and catchy vocals. This album is really good. Theres more melody and song craft here than in most of his 90s material.

So now I offically like the Rainbow children. (Hey I ran down originally and now I love it).

You changed your mind, it happens.

I initially didn't like 1/2 of Prince' music, but upon listening to them later in life, I drastically changed my opinion about it.

However, in RC' case, I loved it the minute I listened to it. Agree/Disagree with the sentiments, but one thing for sure, it took some guts to record that album. And it was the most perfectly produced album from last decade IMO, slow voice narrative notwithstanding.

Adorecream said:

I have also relaised, that liking it dosen't make me a Jehovahs Witness.

you mean that you actually thought that before?

I don't like/agree with the lyrics to a lot of his songs.. but if the music is great, nothing else matters.

The Rainbow Children is a great album, in my opininon, but it would have benefitted greatly from not having the distorted voice. That actually ruins "Rainbow Children" [title track] for me.

Oh, and no, you're not a hypocrite. You just changed your mind, as harlepolis said.

Hypocrisy, according to wikipedia

Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie^.

Hypocrisy is not simply failing to practice those virtues that one preaches.

Adorecream said:

You probably all know how much I love to bash the Rainbow children album and yes some of the venom I have spouted has been childish in the extreme, but I am listening to it in its entirety and despite the very objectionable subject matter, its as funky as all hell.

Its actually very good, I am lifting it from a 2/10 up to 7/10. Why because most of the songs are funky and jazzy and he's having fun. Theres not bad rapping or trend chasing or any of the other 90s crap, its really his first mature record.

Also I think he's doing this album without wanting to impress anyone, Prince as the non conformist rebel, here he is taking Jehovahs witness and funking and jazzing it up. I have also relaised, that liking it dosen't make me a Jehovahs Witness.

Its so mellow, the jazzy grooves, funky bass and catchy vocals. This album is really good. Theres more melody and song craft here than in most of his 90s material.

So now I offically like the Rainbow children. (Hey I ran Symbol down originally and now I love it).

I applaud you, not just for coming to this realization, but publicly doing so (as well as you saying/realizing as you state below that enjoying it doesnt have to mean you agree with the subject matter). Being able to be objective is something that has been missing from this joint and the online Prince fan community for a decade.

As I was not particularly a fan of jazzy sound, this album was a test of patience when I first bought it. With that deep vocal (at first it was rather annoying) all over through out the album, it still isn't one of my favorite albums of Prince's. I know it's him being experimental and doing what he can do and all that, but I really wish he hadn't done that. However I also have to agree that it really grew on me. Relaxing overall but there's unexpected funkiness to it. In fact I'm gonna go listen to it again...

Emancipation89 said:

As I was not particularly a fan of jazzy sound, this album was a test of patience when I first bought it. With that deep vocal (at first it was rather annoying) all over through out the album, it still isn't one of my favorite albums of Prince's. I know it's him being experimental and doing what he can do and all that, but I really wish he hadn't done that. However I also have to agree that it really grew on me. Relaxing overall but there's unexpected funkiness to it. In fact I'm gonna go listen to it again...

This is the one thing in all of Prince world that I dont understand: how that voice annoys people so much.

rdhull said:

Emancipation89 said:

As I was not particularly a fan of jazzy sound, this album was a test of patience when I first bought it. With that deep vocal (at first it was rather annoying) all over through out the album, it still isn't one of my favorite albums of Prince's. I know it's him being experimental and doing what he can do and all that, but I really wish he hadn't done that. However I also have to agree that it really grew on me. Relaxing overall but there's unexpected funkiness to it. In fact I'm gonna go listen to it again...

This is the one thing in all of Prince world that I dont understand: how that voice annoys people so much.

If it was just at the beginning of Rainbow Children, it would've only made me curious. But since it's everywhere, I find it repetitive and unnecessary.

rdhull said:

Emancipation89 said:

As I was not particularly a fan of jazzy sound, this album was a test of patience when I first bought it. With that deep vocal (at first it was rather annoying) all over through out the album, it still isn't one of my favorite albums of Prince's. I know it's him being experimental and doing what he can do and all that, but I really wish he hadn't done that. However I also have to agree that it really grew on me. Relaxing overall but there's unexpected funkiness to it. In fact I'm gonna go listen to it again...

This is the one thing in all of Prince world that I dont understand: how that voice annoys people so much.

It annoys me because it's distorted so much that I can barely understand what he's saying..

The narrator voice kind of ruins it for me as an album, although I like some songs (not all) on an individual basis.

CrabalockerFishwife said:

rdhull said:

This is the one thing in all of Prince world that I dont understand: how that voice annoys people so much.

It annoys me because it's distorted so much that I can barely understand what he's saying..

I have no issue understanding it..but you do sometimes have to actively listen..its his The Wall..meant to be taken in at one sitting imo

The whole album sems like a story to me to listen to

You now have a rainbow comin out yo head.

Actually I've always liked this album.

It's always good to let the music grow on u...

No Prince album is bad per se...

I like TRC. It's that darth vader voice that irks me.

Adorecream said:

You probably all know how much I love to bash the Rainbow children album and yes some of the venom I have spouted has been childish in the extreme, but I am listening to it in its entirety and despite the very objectionable subject matter, its as funky as all hell.

Its actually very good, I am lifting it from a 2/10 up to 7/10. Why because most of the songs are funky and jazzy and he's having fun. Theres not bad rapping or trend chasing or any of the other 90s crap, its really his first mature record.

Also I think he's doing this album without wanting to impress anyone, Prince as the non conformist rebel, here he is taking Jehovahs witness and funking and jazzing it up. I have also relaised, that liking it dosen't make me a Jehovahs Witness.

Its so mellow, the jazzy grooves, funky bass and catchy vocals. This album is really good. Theres more melody and song craft here than in most of his 90s material.

So now I offically like the Rainbow children. (Hey I ran Symbol down originally and now I love it).

I've been reading your bashing of this cd but have refrained from commenting because I thought it would just be a waste of time. TRC is a sophisticated, funky, jazzy cd with whack lyrics. The cd IMO rates an 8 or even a 9. The music is awesome. Once you get over the ridiculous lyrics in some of the songs you will recognize how good this cd really is. Glad you finally did.

Empress said:

Adorecream said:

You probably all know how much I love to bash the Rainbow children album and yes some of the venom I have spouted has been childish in the extreme, but I am listening to it in its entirety and despite the very objectionable subject matter, its as funky as all hell.

Its actually very good, I am lifting it from a 2/10 up to 7/10. Why because most of the songs are funky and jazzy and he's having fun. Theres not bad rapping or trend chasing or any of the other 90s crap, its really his first mature record.

Also I think he's doing this album without wanting to impress anyone, Prince as the non conformist rebel, here he is taking Jehovahs witness and funking and jazzing it up. I have also relaised, that liking it dosen't make me a Jehovahs Witness.

Its so mellow, the jazzy grooves, funky bass and catchy vocals. This album is really good. Theres more melody and song craft here than in most of his 90s material.

So now I offically like the Rainbow children. (Hey I ran Symbol down originally and now I love it).

I've been reading your bashing of this cd but have refrained from commenting because I thought it would just be a waste of time. TRC is a sophisticated, funky, jazzy cd with whack lyrics. The cd IMO rates an 8 or even a 9. The music is awesome. Once you get over the ridiculous lyrics in some of the songs you will recognize how good this cd really is. Glad you finally did.

This. My objections to The Rainbow Children have never been about the music - which is pretty awesome overall.

English is not my first language, so always listen to the music first. Maybe this is why TRC is one of his best in my book. It was... refreshing. I was so happy he took a whole other direction compared to his last '90's stuff. I like a lot of things he does, but found TRC a real surprise.

Yeah, we change our minds, it's all good

I really didn't gel with TRC till the ONA tour, which is a much shorter span of time but still. And it was only a couple of years ago that I found I liked NEWS, having totally dismissed it on release (despite liking Xpectation).

Opinions - they're fluid if we let them be

Genesia said:

Empress said:

I've been reading your bashing of this cd but have refrained from commenting because I thought it would just be a waste of time. TRC is a sophisticated, funky, jazzy cd with whack lyrics. The cd IMO rates an 8 or even a 9. The music is awesome. Once you get over the ridiculous lyrics in some of the songs you will recognize how good this cd really is. Glad you finally did.

This. My objections to The Rainbow Children have never been about the music - which is pretty awesome overall.

IMHO, no one, and i say NO ONE would have objected to that album's lyrics and thematics if Prince had released it exactly the same WITHOUT becoming a JW beforehand. At least no one who hadn't already objected to Lovesexy. TRC is the fucking continuation of everything Prince had "said" before in his songs. No bloody difference in my book. But because he had become a member of a debatable cult, people decided to bash his lyrics. Just MHO, though

Well, if the bra fits...

Actually, the album has grown on me too, although I don't care for the lyrics either. "Family Name" in particular is a damn funky song. As time passes it will probably rise in popularity. Maybe in a decade or so we could redo the polling project that Javi and I did a while back and test that hypothesis.

databank said:

Genesia said:

This. My objections to The Rainbow Children have never been about the music - which is pretty awesome overall.

IMHO, no one, and i say NO ONE would have objected to that album's lyrics and thematics if Prince had released it exactly the same WITHOUT becoming a JW beforehand. At least no one who hadn't already objected to Lovesexy. TRC is the fucking continuation of everything Prince had "said" before in his songs. No bloody difference in my book. But because he had become a member of a debatable cult, people decided to bash his lyrics. Just MHO, though

Wrong. Family Name (the track I find most objectionable) would be anti-Semitic whether Prince was a Jehovah's Witness or a one-eyed Episcopalian kangaroo.

Genesia said:

databank said:

IMHO, no one, and i say NO ONE would have objected to that album's lyrics and thematics if Prince had released it exactly the same WITHOUT becoming a JW beforehand. At least no one who hadn't already objected to Lovesexy. TRC is the fucking continuation of everything Prince had "said" before in his songs. No bloody difference in my book. But because he had become a member of a debatable cult, people decided to bash his lyrics. Just MHO, though

Wrong. Family Name (the track I find most objectionable) would be anti-Semitic whether Prince was a Jehovah's Witness or a one-eyed Episcopalian kangaroo.

Please tell me which parts, I never thought of it that way but I'm open to debate

^ Yeah, I don't agree with that databank. The stuff that people object to on TRC doesn't really have any direct lyrically connection to JW. People have read misogynistic, homophobic and anti-semetic themes in those lyrics - and whether we go with that or not - if Prince had been an atheist or a Buddhist - I think those lyrics would still have been picked apart.

I think putting them all under the umbrella of JW makes it easier to ferret for them though, there's a certain amount of snide bile there that rubs people up the wrong way, and that JW banner is the easiest thing to slap everything under.

databank said:

Genesia said:

Wrong. Family Name (the track I find most objectionable) would be anti-Semitic whether Prince was a Jehovah's Witness or a one-eyed Episcopalian kangaroo.

Please tell me which parts, I never thought of it that way but I'm open to debate

Sorry, but you're going to have to do a search. This has been discussed ad nauseum - and I don't really feel like going there again.

databank said:

Genesia said:

This. My objections to The Rainbow Children have never been about the music - which is pretty awesome overall.

IMHO, no one, and i say NO ONE would have objected to that album's lyrics and thematics if Prince had released it exactly the same WITHOUT becoming a JW beforehand. At least no one who hadn't already objected to Lovesexy. TRC is the fucking continuation of everything Prince had "said" before in his songs. No bloody difference in my book. But because he had become a member of a debatable cult, people decided to bash his lyrics. Just MHO, though

You really think no one would have a problem with lyrics like "Holocaust aside..." and the part about women living in subjugation to men? I don't know which copy of Lovesexy you bought, but those concepts weren't in mine.

The aforementioned Family Name is of course another one that inspires a lot of debate for its alleged anti-Semitism.

Personally, I'm always surprised that Prince's ardent Christian fans aren't more upset about one of the major themes running through that album: that there isn't a Trinity. But since I'm not an ardent Christian, I guess it's not my place to say they should be bothered by it.

Anyway, I agree it's a great album, and the first album of his ever that I had to fully disassociate the music from the lyrics--which is one reason I take exception to the Lovesexy comparison. TRC is not a continuation at all--it is a brand-new direction.

luv4u said:

I like TRC. It's that darth vader voice that irks me.

Interesting ... The 'Darth Vader' voice as you call it Luv, does not annoy me. Personally speaking, I think/believe that TRC is one of P's BEST albums ever made ( by him ).

Efan said:

databank said:

IMHO, no one, and i say NO ONE would have objected to that album's lyrics and thematics if Prince had released it exactly the same WITHOUT becoming a JW beforehand. At least no one who hadn't already objected to Lovesexy. TRC is the fucking continuation of everything Prince had "said" before in his songs. No bloody difference in my book. But because he had become a member of a debatable cult, people decided to bash his lyrics. Just MHO, though

You really think no one would have a problem with lyrics like "Holocaust aside..." and the part about women living in subjugation to men? I don't know which copy of Lovesexy you bought, but those concepts weren't in mine.

The aforementioned Family Name is of course another one that inspires a lot of debate for its alleged anti-Semitism.

Personally, I'm always surprised that Prince's ardent Christian fans aren't more upset about one of the major themes running through that album: that there isn't a Trinity. But since I'm not an ardent Christian, I guess it's not my place to say they should be bothered by it.

Anyway, I agree it's a great album, and the first album of his ever that I had to fully disassociate the music from the lyrics--which is one reason I take exception to the Lovesexy comparison. TRC is not a continuation at all--it is a brand-new direction.

Maybe I'm silly but what I always understood here is... "Holocaust aside, many live & died"

I mean that I get what it says: save for the holocaust (i.e. genocides and massive war crimes in general, that should be condemned), death is a part of life and shouldn't be feared, therefore one should stand by one's beliefs even if one's life is threatened by doing so ("would u rather be dead or be sold?"). I don't see anything against Jews here.

As for mysoginy it's been there all along (Dirty Mind anyone? 1999 anyone? What about the original version of Extra Loveable and Big Tall Wall? Let's not even mention Work That Fat and the lyrics for The Time ^^) but it's always been tempered by P's feminist lyrics, which I always understood as an expression of the fragile balance between his macho afro-american side (education and religion - christianism IS traditionally mysogynist as a whole) and his feminine side. In my book, the feminist aspects always were stronger despite some disputable lyrics.

Please don't misunderstand: i'm not trying to recreate a debate u guys obviously have had before, nor do I wish to convince or be convinced. Just saying my (maybe naive) POV

Peace

[Edited 3/7/12 11:41am]

[Edited 3/7/12 11:42am]

databank said:

Efan said:

You really think no one would have a problem with lyrics like "Holocaust aside..." and the part about women living in subjugation to men? I don't know which copy of Lovesexy you bought, but those concepts weren't in mine.

The aforementioned Family Name is of course another one that inspires a lot of debate for its alleged anti-Semitism.

Personally, I'm always surprised that Prince's ardent Christian fans aren't more upset about one of the major themes running through that album: that there isn't a Trinity. But since I'm not an ardent Christian, I guess it's not my place to say they should be bothered by it.

Anyway, I agree it's a great album, and the first album of his ever that I had to fully disassociate the music from the lyrics--which is one reason I take exception to the Lovesexy comparison. TRC is not a continuation at all--it is a brand-new direction.

Maybe I'm silly but what I always understood here is... "Holocaust aside, many live & died"

I mean that I get what it says: save for the holocaust (i.e. genocides and massive war crimes in general, that should be condemned), death is a part of life and shouldn't be feared, therefore one should stand by one's beliefs even if one's life is threatened by doing so ("would u rather be dead or be sold?"). I don't see anything against Jews here.

As for mysoginy it's been there all along (Dirty Mind anyone? 1999 anyone? What about the original version of Extra Loveable and Big Tall Wall? Let's not even mention Work That Fat and the lyrics for The Time ^^) but it's always been tempered by P's feminist lyrics, which I always understood as an expression of the fragile balance between his macho afro-american side (education and religion - christianism IS traditionally mysogynist as a whole) and his feminine side. In my book, the feminist aspects always were stronger despite some disputable lyrics.

Please don't misunderstand: i'm not trying to recreate a debate u guys obviously have had before, nor do I wish to convince or be convinced. Just saying my (maybe naive) POV

Peace

[Edited 3/7/12 11:41am]

[Edited 3/7/12 11:42am]

And I interpret it to mean, "What are the Jews bitching about? Slavery killed a lot of people, too." It's the diminishing of one to elevate the other that is the problem. And "would u rather b dead or sold" is just more moral relativism. He's suggesting that it's worse to be alive and held in slavery than to die in a concentration camp.

There is also the issue of the names that are used - Pearlman, Rosenbloom, Goldstruck - all of which are Jewish-sounding names. And the lyrics around them diminish the persecution of Jews by (in effect) saying, "What are you people bitching about? You still have your names - unlike the slaves, who lost theirs." This is just ignorant, since many Jews did lose their family names - either because they changed them, themselves (to avoid persecution) or had them forcibly changed (through "mistakes" at Ellis Island).

[Edited 3/7/12 12:01pm]

I think the general thing that rubbed people up the wrong way - overall - was the perceived bait/switch some people felt - it's from 'your clothes, your hair we don't care it's all about being free' and 'If I see 11, you can say it's 7, still I wish you heaven' to 'this is how it's gonna be, ain't no room to disagree'. I am not arguing for that perceived sudden change in moral stance, but many people saw it that way.

[Edited 3/7/12 13:09pm]