He can't control it. That's why.

Tremolina said:

This is what Prince was quoted as saying in The Dail mirror:

“The internet is completely over. I don’t see why I should give my new music to iTunes or anyone else. They won’t pay me an advance for it and then they get angry when they can’t get it.”

He went on to say: “The internet’s like MTV. At one time MTV was hip and suddenly it became outdated.

Prince also criticised the advent of gadgets and computers: “All these computers and digital gadgets are no good.

"They just fill your head with numbers and that cant be good for you.”

He didn't refer in any way to filesharing. Which means that all of the people who claimed he did are making that up.

He also didn't say the internet is "dead" nor mention his website adventures like Lotusflower, NPGMC etc. or the org or whatever

What he did do was refer to Itunes and their unwillingness to pay him an advance for new music. And about the way the internet resembles MTV, while all those numbers in your head can't be good for you.

"dumb"? Not really.

[Edited 2/28/12 12:23pm]

I think his attitude about the internet and music has a lot to do with is iniatial comments about filesharing. He cannot make money so he is not interested in having an online presence. Anyone who reads anything else into is projecting their own ideas.

Prince needs to be more specific because I do not know what he's talking about

laurarichardson said:

Tremolina said:

This is what Prince was quoted as saying in The Dail mirror:

He didn't refer in any way to filesharing. Which means that all of the people who claimed he did are making that up.

He also didn't say the internet is "dead" nor mention his website adventures like Lotusflower, NPGMC etc. or the org or whatever

What he did do was refer to Itunes and their unwillingness to pay him an advance for new music. And about the way the internet resembles MTV, while all those numbers in your head can't be good for you.

"dumb"? Not really.

[Edited 2/28/12 12:23pm]

I think his attitude about the internet and music has a lot to do with is iniatial comments about filesharing. He cannot make money so he is not interested in having an online presence. Anyone who reads anything else into is projecting their own ideas.

You may think so, but he still didn't say that in this context. The context he put the "internet is over" comment in was about itunes and mtv.

Besides he can make money on the internet and in fact does sell some of his older music on itunes.

It's the NEW music he wants an advance for, but they won't do it. That's what he says he doesn't like.

I do kinda see Prince's point with concerns to the iTunes model etc. It's like he took a lot of flack for his stance in the 90s against record labels, and his career definately took a hit from his stance at the time - but since then he has often been praised for being one of the artists to bring the issue to the table before many others and since then it has become apparent that the big record label business model is cancerous - but if he's not happy with the business model of iTunes et all, well it's probably because he think it would be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

We might've seen it as making a quick buck to get a slab of cash from the newspaper give aways, and I think those releases probably were seen by the general public as "well if it was any good he'd put it out on a label" - which has validity, but also if he'd put PE and 20Ten out on labels, he'd have had to do a lot more footwork and promotion for probably not much more returns, considering his place in the market. So it was probably the most profitable way to put out a new record those years if he wanted to bypass the majors and iTunes. What are the other options: independent labels, releasing through his own websites - this is preaching to the converted. So newspaper releases might not be perfect, but he hit a bigger audience who probably did go and pick up a best of, or ironically, download the hits of iTunes! Still, it kept him relevant and people knew he was still around putting out new product and touring.

Beautifulstarr123 said:

Prince needs to be more specific because I do not know what he's talking about

Nevermind, I get the picture.

Mindflux said:

ludwig said:

He wanted to control what people say about him. Don't you remember what went on in the npgmc-forums and those shady lawsuits against websites like prince.org?

That's not controlling "the internet" though, is it? He wanted to control his image, perhaps unreasonably so, but he is a brand and any brand seeks to control how it is viewed in the marketplace. Furthermore, most forums are moderated to an extent. Its his house, if he wants guests to behave in a certain way, its his call. You don't have to like it. There are moderators here on prince.org too - some members don't always agree with their take on things either. That's life.

Some people seem to think that Prince's desire for control over his product and his environment is a negative aspect - what they seem to forget is that without this drive he would never have acheived all the great things he has. You can't have your cake and eat it!

check back to 1997. he definitely wanted to control the internet, at least in regards to him. he started a "Collective" website, completely under his control, and any fan page who decided not to join was sent a cease & desist order to remove his image, his symbol (which he had provided to the internet so that people could refer to him as such), and talk about his music on their websites.

NouveauDance said:

I do kinda see Prince's point with concerns to the iTunes model etc. It's like he took a lot of flack for his stance in the 90s against record labels, and his career definately took a hit from his stance at the time - but since then he has often been praised for being one of the artists to bring the issue to the table before many others and since then it has become apparent that the big record label business model is cancerous - but if he's not happy with the business model of iTunes et all, well it's probably because he think it would be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

We might've seen it as making a quick buck to get a slab of cash from the newspaper give aways, and I think those releases probably were seen by the general public as "well if it was any good he'd put it out on a label" - which has validity, but also if he'd put PE and 20Ten out on labels, he'd have had to do a lot more footwork and promotion for probably not much more returns, considering his place in the market. So it was probably the most profitable way to put out a new record those years if he wanted to bypass the majors and iTunes. What are the other options: independent labels, releasing through his own websites - this is preaching to the converted. So newspaper releases might not be perfect, but he hit a bigger audience who probably did go and pick up a best of, or ironically, download the hits of iTunes! Still, it kept him relevant and people knew he was still around putting out new product and touring.

the problem I have with this is that a lot of his stance about the way the record industry operates was based on his complaint about advances and the way they are charged against an artists' contract/sales.

and yet, the business model he's set up for himself for releasing albums is one based solely on advances. yes, of course in his current set-up, it's all beneficial toward him. that is until he runs out of exclusive venues to distribute his product after they all wise up and see how much overstock is left sitting in warehouses of the last exclusive distributor.

even more galling is that when he proclaimed the internet to be over, he said that he didn't like putting his music on iTunes because they would not give him an advance, which is completely contradictory to one of his major gripes about the music industry 15 years ago.

he has no faith in his music to sell and to be paid on the merits of those sales. even more, he has no faith in himself to go out there and actually put some effort into selling a record instead of letting someone pay him up front, and let the chips fall where they may and leave the exclusive distributor with a bunch of CD's to be sent to the shredder, the landfill, or glutting the shelves for 49 cents.

ludwig said:

Mindflux said:

That's not controlling "the internet" though, is it? He wanted to control his image, perhaps unreasonably so, but he is a brand and any brand seeks to control how it is viewed in the marketplace. Furthermore, most forums are moderated to an extent. Its his house, if he wants guests to behave in a certain way, its his call. You don't have to like it. There are moderators here on prince.org too - some members don't always agree with their take on things either. That's life.

Some people seem to think that Prince's desire for control over his product and his environment is a negative aspect - what they seem to forget is that without this drive he would never have acheived all the great things he has. You can't have your cake and eat it!

It's an insult to compare prince.org moderators with those npgmc-nazis.

And he could have achieved much more satisfied fans when he would behave like a normal human being.

There ya go

errant said:

he has no faith in his music to sell and to be paid on the merits of those sales. even more, he has no faith in himself to go out there and actually put some effort into selling a record instead of letting someone pay him up front, and let the chips fall where they may and leave the exclusive distributor with a bunch of CD's to be sent to the shredder, the landfill, or glutting the shelves for 49 cents.

But you're missing the point that it's a business negotiation that decides who gets to pocket what in terms of profit. If he does it the traditional of promoting and selling CD's it doesn't change who gets what in terms of percentage profit. Thats decided up front. You can disagree with him for what he gets away with, but as long as he has the means the to it, he'll continue to do it. The traditional model is rigged in favor of the record execs. The way he negotiates it, he manages to come out the winner. Because he's cut out the whole dealing with the radio thing, all the middle men, he's made that the affair of the people he's made the deal with. He's not gonna tell you how much he's made off of these deals, but it's pretty certain its much more guaranteed money than would be made by many of these newer artists selling many more times than him in actual album sales.

herb4 said:

He can't control it. That's why.

that's what it all boils down to

errant said:

he has no faith in his music to sell and to be paid on the merits of those sales. even more, he has no faith in himself to go out there and actually put some effort into selling a record instead of letting someone pay him up front, and let the chips fall where they may and leave the exclusive distributor with a bunch of CD's to be sent to the shredder, the landfill, or glutting the shelves for 49 cents.

This is true. Sometimes I feel the need to be fammy, and the next day I read a reply like this and I'm back on planet Earth.

PoorLonelyComputer said:

ludwig said:

It's an insult to compare prince.org moderators with those npgmc-nazis.

And he could have achieved much more satisfied fans when he would behave like a normal human being.

There ya go

You're late! (and you didn't bring anything)

Mindflux said:

PoorLonelyComputer said:

There ya go

You're late! (and you didn't bring anything)

I'm sorry, do I know you?

ludwig said:

thedance said:

But... sometimes Prince comes off as very greedy.

--> $77 for a website with no new content, sucks....

Please insert "almost".

At least we got a few new videos from coachella and the wonderful tonight show rehearsal performances of 1999 and guitar. It's not much, but I'm thankful for those gems.

+ 3 albums (containing 1 exclusive track) and a T-Shirt (to those who actually recieved one). An mp3 album is valued at $9.99, and a T-Shirt usually would cost around $30... maybe you didn't get your money's worth, but you got more than access to watch a few videos.

I'm sorry for bringing this up again..

[Edited 3/6/12 8:14am]

CrabalockerFishwife said:

ludwig said:

Please insert "almost".

At least we got a few new videos from coachella and the wonderful tonight show rehearsal performances of 1999 and guitar. It's not much, but I'm thankful for those gems.

+ 3 albums (containing 1 exclusive track) and a T-Shirt (to those who actually recieved one). An mp3 album is valued at $9.99, and a T-Shirt usually would cost around $30... maybe you didn't get your money's worth, but you got more than access to watch a few videos.

I'm sorry for bringing this up again..

[Edited 3/6/12 8:14am]

The whole 3 CD set was sold at Target for 12 $. And yes, there was one "exclusive" track on the download version, therefore was another "exclusive" track on the physical release. So we didn't get more, just something slightly different and just for the purpose to milk hardcore fans twice.

ludwig said:

CrabalockerFishwife said:

+ 3 albums (containing 1 exclusive track) and a T-Shirt (to those who actually recieved one). An mp3 album is valued at $9.99, and a T-Shirt usually would cost around $30... maybe you didn't get your money's worth, but you got more than access to watch a few videos.

I'm sorry for bringing this up again..

[Edited 3/6/12 8:14am]

The whole 3 CD set was sold at Target for 12 $. And yes, there was one "exclusive" track on the download version, therefore was another "exclusive" track on the physical release. So we didn't get more, just something slightly different and just for the purpose to milk hardcore fans twice.

Yep.. but TheDance said "a website with no new content".. you added in "(almost) no new content". 3 albums and a T-Shirt is a good bit of content - and it was new content, even if it was available cheaper elsewhere.

[Edited 3/6/12 8:30am]

He didn't mean it's over or it's dead. I think he meant that like a party, it's not fun anymore. Sometimes parties are not fun anymore even if they are crowded.

Like Yogi Berra said "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."