It really has been a wild year or 2 with the advent of free unofficial music / video DL's. Frankly some of the things have been the stuff of dreams especially the 83 - 86 era. The [mostly] lossless quality, truly great artwork and care and attention puts P to shame. Gone are days of buying over priced,crap quality cassettes from Camden market on a Sunday !, it's all now here at the touch of a button.

The main arguement against bootlegs will centre around lost earnings for the artist and of course the moral case of plain and simple theft regardless of whether it's free or not.

If the DL's are free and P seemingly couldn't care less about his legacy does the availability of free DL's really do any harm?. I would argue strongly that it helps cement our appreciation for him and his asscoiates and if anything brings back any doubters!. It also gives us what we want - am I right in thinking that most of us would love to pay P directly to DL this stuff?, if he doesn't want it then I'll gladly have it for free!.

Frankly i look forward to old bootlegs far more than up coming new albums by P!

Where do you stand on this issue?

[Making this a temp sticky folks since discussion is also about some sites like megaupload that has been affected. - luv4u]

If Prince were to release these shows, either audio or video, unmolested and unedited, then I would be one of the first to get out my visa card and pay him for the pleasure. I'm sure there would be very little to stop him from setting up a site and offering these historic recordings in multiple audio formats to download for a small fee.

It is releases such as this that keep me being a fan of Prince after all these years, and I know i'm not alone on that one. So no, as long as they remain free, I don't think they do any harm, and yes, I agree that it helps to cement his legacy.

If it wasn´t for bootlegs I never would´ve bought so many legit releases because the boots sparked my interest and kept it alive. Sure, I was already a fan before the boots but they made Prince much more interesting to me.

I´m sure most fans here on the org would definitely buy every single bootleg again if it came out as a legit release by Prince. So, no, I don´t think they´re causing any harm and yes, they do help his legacy as far as I´m concerned.

And eversince Prince released some of his concert footage on VHS tapes recorded from Korean TV, I for one am GLAD that there are people out there who seem to take better care of his legacy than he does. At least some of his body of work will be preserved for good that way.

I´m not too sure whether Prince and his camp are taking good care of his old tapes, and don´t get me started with Prince censoring his old material...who knows, maybe he´s already erased some of his older material due to the lyrics.

Most bootlegs also have much better cover artwork than all his post 1992 releases.

KoolEaze said:

I for one am GLAD that there are people out there who seem to take better care of his legacy than he does. At least some of his body of work will be preserved for good that way.

Exactly.

These releases are not just thrown out there. There must be a number of highly skilled people involved in the creation of a quality free bootleg, from people who work on the sound (if needed) to the people who design great artwork, and also the people who write up the information so we know what we are listening to. And all in their spare time, for free, for the love of the music.

KoolEaze said:

If it wasn´t for bootlegs I never would´ve bought so many legit releases because the boots sparked my interest and kept it alive. Sure, I was already a fan before the boots but they made Prince much more interesting to me.

I´m sure most fans here on the org would definitely buy every single bootleg again if it came out as a legit release by Prince. So, no, I don´t think they´re causing any harm and yes, they do help his legacy as far as I´m concerned.

And eversince Prince released some of his concert footage on VHS tapes recorded from Korean TV, I for one am GLAD that there are people out there who seem to take better care of his legacy than he does. At least some of his body of work will be preserved for good that way.

I´m not too sure whether Prince and his camp are taking good care of his old tapes, and don´t get me started with Prince censoring his old material...who knows, maybe he´s already erased some of his older material due to the lyrics.

Most bootlegs also have much better cover artwork than all his post 1992 releases.

I agree with your whole post and the bolded part is very true for a lot of Prince fans I know who bought a lot more official releases or only became real fans because they were so impressed by his outtakes and live shows on tapes/vinyl/CDs.

Specifically youtube is helping him build a legendary reputation now that people can happen on stuff only the hard core faithful had been keeping count of.

I will agree when I meet someone who ONLY downloads not legally obtainable stuff

The bootleggers give me what I want.

Prince gives me ..... a coffe table book.

Couldn't agree more with the sentiments expressed already.

At least there are people out there bothered about the legacy and preservation of the back catalogue as best they can be, even if Prince himself doesn't give a shit, or isn't prepared to do anything about it yet.

It's the ONLY reason I'm still interested in Prince and why I'm still buying his cd's and concerttickets.

depends on the bootleg, I suppose.

Im listening to the Box O Chocolates - boot right now. Awesome!

Bootlegs fuel fan worship. A lot of bands have figured that out by now.

Grateful Dead were making 50M a year.

A lot of artists who got passed by thanks to the industry machine only got rediscovered and proper reissues *because* of pirated and bootleged recordings. It's always been a small record collector thing...with few exceptions

Prince is one of those exceptions..... he's had whole records released on the black market, which as far as we know, he didn't profit from. He's also had raw demos exploited.

In some cases, there's more clamoring for the bootleg material than there is his fully conceived projects. And either he's privately authorizing some of the new wave of boots to get the junk off the streets, or someone very close to Prince (like say, a former manager, drummer, keys player, advisor) has a stash .... because there's been no legal recourse, and remember, Prince clamps down on his own official videos getting posted on Youtube.

Of course it helps him. I know I'm not the only one who has stepped away from Prince a few times, lost interest, then ended up rekindling my love for him after staying up all night when I've stumbled on a bootleg, or footage that excites me. Next thing I know, I'm pulling out the records again and you all know the rest.

ludwig said:

The bootleggers give me what I want.

Prince gives me ..... a coffe table book.

ludwig said:

i think the reason i'm such a big prince fan moreso than any other artist is the volume and quality of his work, both the released material, and perhaps moreso the bootleg material of the last 20 odd years, as you only normally get about 1 normal album per year if you are lucky, as with most bands, so the bootlegs keep you constantly interested until the next official release comes along

i've heard a number of other fans say the same thing. i don't know anyone who has got sick of listening to prince because there were too many bootlegs. you just don't need to get them or listen to them if you don't want them, but some of the recent bootlegs have been of amazing quality both in sound and in performance. you could show the pro shot montreux or club nokia dvds to any average person and they would be impressed by the performances. even the mobile phone shot videos of the last couple of years synched with audience sound recordings have been pretty amazing. just the fact that between everyone at a gig, almost every second of footage is recorded, and the footage from near the front in HD quality is just amazing. and to think the last official live dvd was 10 years ago now

all this talk of Prince music makes me wanna

[Edited 1/17/12 15:37pm]

ludwig said:

The bootleggers give me what I want.

Prince gives me ..... a coffe table book.

quote of the year so far!

I'm against bootlegs because it that would be OK, then the demand for bootleg market will grow a lot and the quality will improve aslo.

For those people who saying that if it not for bootlegs they would never discover some records. That is not a good excuse, because when you want to buy legit albums, there is always samples that you can listen to.

As for keeping his legacy, he propbably has people who makes videos of his shows, same thinh with records. He just doesn't want to release them yet for his personal reasons.

.

[Edited 1/17/12 16:57pm]

I don't think bootlegs hurt artists at all, esp. if they become freely available. The only exception is if someone is leaking songs currently being worked on in the studio, undermining record sales. It's an ethical decision whether or not to post those songs for people to hear. There have been times when a leaked recording created demand, where the record company told the artist to shelve it, "we don't hear a hit" - Dave Matthews "Busted Stuff" was released for that reason. Black Album should have been released sooner, only because the bootlegs were in such demand at the time, gouging the fans.

The Grateful Dead were never for people bootlegging their studio recordings. And if the live tape is released officially, the fans can only post or trade fan-made recordings.

I think if the artist radically changes their setlist - and this is the case with Springsteen or Tori Amos and Pearl Jam - those concert tapes are going to vary show to show.

But what I think would bother Prince more than bootlegs are the 94 East tapes, once they started repackaging them, taking up real estate in the record stores.

There's some bands that haven't put out a live album or a live DVD - Tool comes to mind, and it's because they feel people need to go to the show and experience it for themselves. We can see the Stones DVD releases of their live shows as to why it might be worth the wait if there's been filmed shows in the past. Who knows - maybe there will be an official DVD included in with a Deluxe Edition of some of the albums.

u couldnt even get a camera in a show in the past how does one make this n if ppl know who are in the know then its not really a shock is it .. seems like a lot of drama over something which probobly is expected to be out. Are they "boot" whatever because the record compy's wont sell them or what. I mean who makes boots ?

TheDigitalGardener said:

KoolEaze said:

I for one am GLAD that there are people out there who seem to take better care of his legacy than he does. At least some of his body of work will be preserved for good that way.

Exactly.

These releases are not just thrown out there. There must be a number of highly skilled people involved in the creation of a quality free bootleg, from people who work on the sound (if needed) to the people who design great artwork, and also the people who write up the information so we know what we are listening to. And all in their spare time, for free, for the love of the music.

irinact said:

I'm against bootlegs because it that would be OK, then the demand for bootleg market will grow a lot and the quality will improve aslo.

For those people who saying that if it not for bootlegs they would never discover some records. That is not a good excuse, because when you want to buy legit albums, there is always samples that you can listen to.

As for keeping his legacy, he propbably has people who makes videos of his shows, same thinh with records. He just doesn't want to release them yet for his personal reasons.

.

[Edited 1/17/12 16:57pm]

there aren't that many boots that you can't still listen to other music. there is both a limit to the number of live shows and outtakes that anyone can record, nevermind be bootlegs off. there aren't 2 or 3 new bootlegs out every day, so plenty of time to listen to other things. it probably would put you off if you listened to the same thing every day

NeonCraxx said:

ludwig said:

The bootleggers give me what I want.

Prince gives me ..... a coffe table book.

You didnt have to buy it.

And you could have ignored my post.

ludwig said:

NeonCraxx said:

ludwig said: You didnt have to buy it.

And you could have ignored my post.

Don't start something where there ain't nuffin.

luv4u said:

ludwig said:

And you could have ignored my post.

Don't start something where there ain't nuffin.

Nahh, not in that mood at all. It's all good.

ludwig said:

luv4u said:

Don't start something where there ain't nuffin.

Nahh, not in that mood at all. It's all good.

Actually I think they actually help his legacy, yeah. A lot of the unreleased stuff is truly epic and frankly, should be out there. Lets people see how extraordinarily talented he is.

I think what actually fucks with his legacy is when he totally reworks those songs and then releases them, and when he refuses to have his music remastered. But then again, like I've thought before...we have no way of knowing if the lack of remasters is because of Prince, himself. There might be other, record-company related factors that are stopping that from happening, we just don't know.

have to bookmark this thread

vc40 said:

It's the ONLY reason I'm still interested in Prince and why I'm still buying his cd's and concerttickets.

Co-sign. It is literally the ONLY reason why I still have an interest in him.