OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

Brain freezing up like an ice cube again? Snap out of it.

In the first part of your sentence you state 'black only term in 2012' on the end of your sentence you said 'but not in 2012'. Now who's stuck in 1970? I called her 'my sister friend,' I didn't say 'sista'. Sister friend is a term I picked up from living in the south some years ago, just like some in the south say 'guy friend'...has nothing to do with one's ethnicity. You had no idea if 'Wonder505' was a female or male by her username, so this is why I referred to her in that way.

[Edited 1/27/12 12:22pm]

bwwaahhhhhhh are u serious, you have no more arguement so your pulling at straws again

Im saying I sure am laughing too that "sista is a black only term in 2012" maybe in 1970 it was but it's not in 2012. Go back in read my post, did you remove a word from my line?

Cool, I never made it an ethnic thing, U did, you attributed my use of sista to be a stereotypical ethic term. I call everyone female "sista", even my mother.

Maybe you did that to help me out with Wonder505's gender, maybe not-most likely not

"If it don't make sense it's probably not true" Judge Judy

Why after all this would u need to inform me or anyone of her gender.

U know that was an ethnic thing u were doing...

I knew from previous posts 2 me that Wonder505 is female post #226 First of all i'm a female.

Sorry I prob should use puncuation to help out the sistas

It's out of steam now 2Elijah, let's move on, it was fun

Nope, didn't touch your post. Just read what you said. You attempt to explain your comments, but then continue to make more, stereotypical comments, but like I said...keep being you, it shines through clearly.

But anyway, besides all that, yes, back on topic. I agree with others here that Prince is doing just fine without W&L, and former associated band members. I do like how he changes/adds new musicians/artists in his band, and lets the light 'shine' on their talent, while on the same stage, and taking a back seat every now and then. He also seems content spiritually with his life, and with his music, he's certainly doesn't seem to be afraid to take risks with it, while not staying stuck in the past, wishing things were the way they used to be. He has definitely...moved forward.

[Edited 1/27/12 13:01pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

wonder505 said:

You are OBSESSED and no you obviously don't respect his whole catalog because you are trapped in the past. As stated I appreciate his CATALOG of music, which includes the era of the Revolution and beyond. I look at their work as a great colloboration, but because of his work before and after them, I am in the camp that believes because of his drive, his vision, his talent, his refusal to be stuck in one category, that he would have done to be great anyway. That does not dimish what they brought to the table, but it only means they benefitted each other, yet, I appreciate Prince's recent releases more than theirs and that is what I based my opinion on. So far the O7 is the only band that kicked my ass, and gave Prince a run for his money, cuz I still got Condensate on repeat.

Either way, Prince has proven himself BEFORE THEY JOINED AND AFTER, and the STUDIO RELEASES FROM ALL OF THEM, IN MY OPINION, does not come close to Prince's music. there are alot of fans who love it and think the Associated Artist music is better and that is fine with me.

Calling people ignorant because they are a little off about knowing when the Revolution joined. I mean come on Get a LIFE MAN! Please GET A LIFE!.You knowing when BrownMark joined does not negate the fact that his solo work SUCKS!! I bought his last cd and gave that shit away to the library, so what difference does it make when he joined. Wow, so people you met people who just became fans last year who knows when BrownMark joined, WOW, those people must be really smart.

naww sweetness, I love his whole career, like most fans we have a particular favorite periods and albums.

a little off? waaaaay off

I do album era threads cause I appreciate those periods, outside of the 1980 period my other favorite is the One Night Alone-Planet Earth period. The albums and periods I didn't have much appreciation for I get to learn stuff from other members and share in their ideas and experiences for that time. And I love 20Ten & Rainbow Children

And guess what? Some albums and eras are still a bit wack. My head isn't up is purple royalness a$$ where everything has to be good.

I can back up my words with my actions. I get involved in era threads(as well as others topic on certain songs and albums) to learn more about those periods I might not have had much interest in an "LEARN" from others, not acting like I know everything there is to know about Prince. I don't make huge statements about time periods I know nothing of. I bet you weren't even alive in 1984 (suspicions)

If Prince stayed a 1 man band you think he still would have been just as great? Seriously, that isn't even a truthful idea in any part of life. How old are u? If Tony M or other people who really didn't believe in Prince's vision were in his band he wouldn't be 'just as great' If he had mindless clones in his band back then with no personality he wouldn't be 'just as great'

Prince started changing the bands up often after 1988 cause he was weary about people using his fame to jump start his career ie Cat & Boni Boyer. But I also read somewhere about Sheila E begging him not to change the band up -before she had her lung collapse and had to leave the band anyway. He asked Rosie Gaines before she joined if she was going to quickly leave to go get her career going.

I didn't define U as ignorant, I said U made a statement based on 99% ignorance, those are 2 different things.

Definition:ignorant

1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.

2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact:

3. uninformed; unaware.

4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

LOL is it hard not to learn things about Prince and his bandmates? When I became a Prince fan everything he had prior to that I bought even protege stuff, knew who was who, B sides etc and that was in the early 80's, we didn't have internet back then, like know when you can just do of freakin google search and waaa laaa there is the info on when BrownMark joined the band.

Wow, what great lengths you go to, to downplay your obsession of the 80's, and to downplay your childless and immature statement that because I was off by two or three years about Revolution members or know every little detail about Prince and his band members, that that makes me a "non-fan". and NOWHERE did I say anything about Prince being a one man band. More exaggeration to downplay your obsession. I CLEARLY STATED that the associated artists brought something to the table. Btw I was born way before 1984 (an ASSumption you clearly made) and I'm glad that Prince changed band members. Its been a great journey getting to know the different musicians, and their work with Prince and their own personal talent outside of only the Revolution members.

Go back to your "purple studies". I'm getting ready for a night out with friends.

2elijah said:

But anyway, besides all that, yes, back on topic. I agree with others here that Prince is doing just fine without W&L, and former associated band members. I do like how he changes/adds new musicians/artists in his band, and lets the light 'shine' on their talent, while on the same stage, and taking a back seat every now and then. He also seems content spiritually with his life and doesn't seem to stay stuck in the past.

How could he stay stuck in the past with all these damn chemtrails?

wonder505 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

naww sweetness, I love his whole career, like most fans we have a particular favorite periods and albums.

a little off? waaaaay off

I do album era threads cause I appreciate those periods, outside of the 1980 period my other favorite is the One Night Alone-Planet Earth period. The albums and periods I didn't have much appreciation for I get to learn stuff from other members and share in their ideas and experiences for that time. And I love 20Ten & Rainbow Children

And guess what? Some albums and eras are still a bit wack. My head isn't up is purple royalness a$$ where everything has to be good.

I can back up my words with my actions. I get involved in era threads(as well as others topic on certain songs and albums) to learn more about those periods I might not have had much interest in an "LEARN" from others, not acting like I know everything there is to know about Prince. I don't make huge statements about time periods I know nothing of. I bet you weren't even alive in 1984 (suspicions)

If Prince stayed a 1 man band you think he still would have been just as great? Seriously, that isn't even a truthful idea in any part of life. How old are u? If Tony M or other people who really didn't believe in Prince's vision were in his band he wouldn't be 'just as great' If he had mindless clones in his band back then with no personality he wouldn't be 'just as great'

Prince started changing the bands up often after 1988 cause he was weary about people using his fame to jump start his career ie Cat & Boni Boyer. But I also read somewhere about Sheila E begging him not to change the band up -before she had her lung collapse and had to leave the band anyway. He asked Rosie Gaines before she joined if she was going to quickly leave to go get her career going.

I didn't define U as ignorant, I said U made a statement based on 99% ignorance, those are 2 different things.

Definition:ignorant

1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.

2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact:

3. uninformed; unaware.

4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

LOL is it hard not to learn things about Prince and his bandmates? When I became a Prince fan everything he had prior to that I bought even protege stuff, knew who was who, B sides etc and that was in the early 80's, we didn't have internet back then, like know when you can just do of freakin google search and waaa laaa there is the info on when BrownMark joined the band.

Wow, what great lengths you go to, to downplay your obsession of the 80's, and to downplay your childless and immature statement that because I was off by two or three years about Revolution members or know every little detail about Prince and his band members, that that makes me a "non-fan". and NOWHERE did I say anything about Prince being a one man band. More exaggeration to downplay your obsession. I CLEARLY STATED that the associated artists brought something to the table. Btw I was born way before 1984 (an Assumption you clearly made) and I'm glad that Prince changed band members. Its been a great journey getting to know the different musicians, and their work with Prince and their own personal talent outside of only the Revolution members.

Go back to your "purple studies". I'm getting ready for a night out with friends.

let it go child you ran out of steam before u got started

You drowned as soon as u got into the pool.

Don't drink too much it interferes with the brain cells

SuperFurryAnimal said:

2elijah said:

But anyway, besides all that, yes, back on topic. I agree with others here that Prince is doing just fine without W&L, and former associated band members. I do like how he changes/adds new musicians/artists in his band, and lets the light 'shine' on their talent, while on the same stage, and taking a back seat every now and then. He also seems content spiritually with his life and doesn't seem to stay stuck in the past.

How could he stay stuck in the past with all these damn chemtrails?

2elijah said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

It's out of steam now 2Elijah, let's move on, it was fun

Nope, didn't touch your post. Just read what you said. You attempt to explain your comments, but then continue to make more, stereotypical comments, but like I said...keep being you, it shines through clearly.

But anyway, besides all that, yes, back on topic. I agree with others here that Prince is doing just fine without W&L, and former associated band members. I do like how he changes/adds new musicians/artists in his band, and lets the light 'shine' on their talent, while on the same stage, and taking a back seat every now and then. He also seems content spiritually with his life, and with his music, he's certainly doesn't seem to be afraid to take risks with it, while not staying stuck in the past, wishing things were the way they used to be. He has definitely...moved forward.

[Edited 1/27/12 13:01pm]

post 357 not hard to read OF4S said:

I sure am laughing, that 'sista' is a black only term in 2012 maybe in 1970 but not 2012

Yes his concerts are doing just fine, album sales needs some serious work. Time 4 him to humble and make a deal with a company that can distribute his music.

And being stuck in the past... time 2 start trying to take some risks and stop always doing the 'hits' of the that past.... He's definately not taking any risks in that dept

OldFriends4Sale said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

How could he stay stuck in the past with all these damn chemtrails?

from now on im staying awake.

OldFriends4Sale said:

wonder505 said:

Wow, what great lengths you go to, to downplay your obsession of the 80's, and to downplay your childless and immature statement that because I was off by two or three years about Revolution members or know every little detail about Prince and his band members, that that makes me a "non-fan". and NOWHERE did I say anything about Prince being a one man band. More exaggeration to downplay your obsession. I CLEARLY STATED that the associated artists brought something to the table. Btw I was born way before 1984 (an Assumption you clearly made) and I'm glad that Prince changed band members. Its been a great journey getting to know the different musicians, and their work with Prince and their own personal talent outside of only the Revolution members.

Go back to your "purple studies". I'm getting ready for a night out with friends.

let it go child you ran out of steam before u got started

You drowned as soon as u got into the pool.

Don't drink too much it interferes with the brain cells

that is so lame.

Prince, poor guy, has put out so much material and all some people do is rip him a new one for it. Some people say that he hasn't done anything since the mid 80's which may be their opinion but it ain't mine. When you consider the umpteen records he's made since then that's crazy. Let's say for arguments sake that he only had one great track per album which compared to his prime stuff, that's still a lot of music. Sure he has to play the Purple Rain crap because many of his fans don't want to let go of their youths and some people who show at any concert by any artist are only their for the event and don't really care for the artist so playing the popular stuff makes sense.

Anyway, let's get back on the subject, yes he seems to have "stolen" basslines, riffs and so forth from the people around him. To this day some of his inner circle will tell you that he used to tape jams and then rerecord all the instruments himself and take credit. Most of us also know that Andre Cymone finally got his gold record for Controversy because he claimed Do Me Baby was a rip off from him. And Wendy and Lisa? Well, the song "Old Friends 4 Sale" seems to imply that Prince knew something the rest of us didn't as far as their contributions but I really didn't see a huge lot from them. Rumours that they "exposed" Prince to the Beatles and so forth sound kind of ridiculous because as long as I have heard, Prince grew up on 60's white radio, kind of hard to hide from the Beatles for anyone much less him. Some have said Wendy and Lisa were when he flourished, maybe they are right but I can't see that, I really can't, at least not to the point where some people say. I always thought it was an image thing myself. And as far as the Time, Vanity, Dez, etc.., I'm sure Prince stole whenever he felt like it but he also did plenty of work for the Time, supposedly, the first couple Time albums were pre-recorded by Prince and Matt and only Morris overdubbed later. The Time were a great Live band, not a great studio band. Few of the people in his circle knew how to conduct themselves once they became successful or had the discipline to stay productive without Prince and that in itself says plenty. It's not either or I'm afraid, He stole a ton and learned a ton from these people and maybe Prince as we know it might not be the same without them but Prince was still the figurehead. You know, Spike Lee said something interesting at university he was speaking at, it went something along the lines of "it takes a lot of people to create success but people being what they are, some person will come out on top and take credit for it". It's both folks.

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

Nope, didn't touch your post. Just read what you said. You attempt to explain your comments, but then continue to make more, stereotypical comments, but like I said...keep being you, it shines through clearly.

But anyway, besides all that, yes, back on topic. I agree with others here that Prince is doing just fine without W&L, and former associated band members. I do like how he changes/adds new musicians/artists in his band, and lets the light 'shine' on their talent, while on the same stage, and taking a back seat every now and then. He also seems content spiritually with his life, and with his music, he's certainly doesn't seem to be afraid to take risks with it, while not staying stuck in the past, wishing things were the way they used to be. He has definitely...moved forward.

[Edited 1/27/12 13:01pm]

post 357 not hard to read OF4S said:

I sure am laughing, that 'sista' is a black only term in 2012 maybe in 1970 but not 2012

Yes his concerts are doing just fine, album sales needs some serious work. Time 4 him to humble and make a deal with a company that can distribute his music.

And being stuck in the past... time 2 start trying to take some risks and stop always doing the 'hits' of the that past.... He's definately not taking any risks in that dept

Oh but wait a minute? That comment coming from a fan stuck on 80s bandmembers, hoping one day Prince hires W&L, and all the proteges so you can relive your 80s fantasy? I find your comment surprising. Not to mention, when he goes outside the 80s box and presents new music, many stuck in the 80s bandmember league of fans, are too afraid to come out of their time machine and step into new music.

He's always taken risks with his music; he plays some 80s classics, at his arena shows, obviously for audience participation and familiarity. It's part of most musician's shows, but he also plays other songs, that not all fans will be familiar with because he has various levels of fans, from different eras of his music. He also respectively, honors other musicans'/artists' music during his shows. You surely don't think he only has to play songs from the 80s era, do you? You can't expect that you'll still see him wearing the 80s outfits on stage today, just to fulfill your purple fantasy do you? He's moved on, grown as a musician, and spiritually as well. All fans in my opinion, are real fans, just at various levels. There's no rule written that if a fan is not familiar with all a musician's songs, that they are not real fans. Leave that up to the musician to decide.

2elijah said:

Oh but wait a minute? That comment coming from a fan stuck on 80s bandmembers, hoping one day Prince hires W&L, and all the proteges so you can relive your 80s fantasy? I find your comment surprising. Not to mention, when he goes outside the 80s box and presents new music, many stuck in the 80s bandmember league of fans, are too afraid to come out of their time machine and step into new music.

He's always taken risks with his music; he plays some 80s classics, at his arena shows, obviously for audience participation and familiarity. It's part of most musician's shows, but he also plays other songs, that not all fans will be familiar with because he has various levels of fans, from different eras of his music. He also respectively, honors other musicans'/artists' music during his shows. You surely don't think he only has to play songs from the 80s era, do you? You can't expect that you'll still see him wearing the 80s outfits on stage today, just to fulfill your purple fantasy do you? He's moved on, grown as a musician, and spiritually as well. All fans in my opinion, are real fans, just at various levels. There's no rule written that if a fan is not familiar with all a musician's songs, that they are not real fans. Leave that up to the musician to decide.

One of my favorite things about Prince is his versatility. When he changes musicians/eras, etc. I'm ready for the next phase so I don't really miss any of them.

World class talent, determination, vision and creativity are what put Princey on the map. Many other talented people contributed but he's the only one in that whole bunch that I would define as extraordinary.

petes2 said:

Prince, poor guy, has put out so much material and all some people do is rip him a new one for it. Some people say that he hasn't done anything since the mid 80's which may be their opinion but it ain't mine. When you consider the umpteen records he's made since then that's crazy. Let's say for arguments sake that he only had one great track per album which compared to his prime stuff, that's still a lot of music. Sure he has to play the Purple Rain crap because many of his fans don't want to let go of their youths and some people who show at any concert by any artist are only their for the event and don't really care for the artist so playing the popular stuff makes sense.

Anyway, let's get back on the subject, yes he seems to have "stolen" basslines, riffs and so forth from the people around him. To this day some of his inner circle will tell you that he used to tape jams and then rerecord all the instruments himself and take credit. Most of us also know that Andre Cymone finally got his gold record for Controversy because he claimed Do Me Baby was a rip off from him. And Wendy and Lisa? Well, the song "Old Friends 4 Sale" seems to imply that Prince knew something the rest of us didn't as far as their contributions but I really didn't see a huge lot from them. Rumours that they "exposed" Prince to the Beatles and so forth sound kind of ridiculous because as long as I have heard, Prince grew up on 60's white radio, kind of hard to hide from the Beatles for anyone much less him. Some have said Wendy and Lisa were when he flourished, maybe they are right but I can't see that, I really can't, at least not to the point where some people say. I always thought it was an image thing myself. And as far as the Time, Vanity, Dez, etc.., I'm sure Prince stole whenever he felt like it but he also did plenty of work for the Time, supposedly, the first couple Time albums were pre-recorded by Prince and Matt and only Morris overdubbed later. The Time were a great Live band, not a great studio band. Few of the people in his circle knew how to conduct themselves once they became successful or had the discipline to stay productive without Prince and that in itself says plenty. It's not either or I'm afraid, He stole a ton and learned a ton from these people and maybe Prince as we know it might not be the same without them but Prince was still the figurehead. You know, Spike Lee said something interesting at university he was speaking at, it went something along the lines of "it takes a lot of people to create success but people being what they are, some person will come out on top and take credit for it". It's both folks.

I agree with the bolded part of your post. I always wondered how in the world Prince would not have not known about the Beatles' music, growing up where he did in Minneapolis, a place where I doubt there were many stations playing r&b dedicated music, except the ones from Black artists/groups that were played on mainstream radio.

The Beatles music was everywhere when they hit the U.S. It was like every two weeks/months they had a new song out. I mean in NYC, many in the Black community were exposed to Beatles music, regardless of the r&b singing groups, who were also on top, and their music played on r&b dedicated stations and some on mainstream radio. There was only about 2 stations that mainly played music of Black musicians/artists, But Prince growing up in Minneapolis, at that time, where the population of Black families were not that high in numbers, according to a radio interview his sister did sometime ago and mentioned that their family was among the few black families, living in their community at the time, so I would say the Beatles music had to be heard in Minneapolis during his younger years, just like it was heard all over the rest of the U.S.

[Edited 1/27/12 17:05pm]

babynoz said:

2elijah said:

Oh but wait a minute? That comment coming from a fan stuck on 80s bandmembers, hoping one day Prince hires W&L, and all the proteges so you can relive your 80s fantasy? I find your comment surprising. Not to mention, when he goes outside the 80s box and presents new music, many stuck in the 80s bandmember league of fans, are too afraid to come out of their time machine and step into new music.

He's always taken risks with his music; he plays some 80s classics, at his arena shows, obviously for audience participation and familiarity. It's part of most musician's shows, but he also plays other songs, that not all fans will be familiar with because he has various levels of fans, from different eras of his music. He also respectively, honors other musicans'/artists' music during his shows. You surely don't think he only has to play songs from the 80s era, do you? You can't expect that you'll still see him wearing the 80s outfits on stage today, just to fulfill your purple fantasy do you? He's moved on, grown as a musician, and spiritually as well. All fans in my opinion, are real fans, just at various levels. There's no rule written that if a fan is not familiar with all a musician's songs, that they are not real fans. Leave that up to the musician to decide.

One of my favorite things about Prince is his versatility. When he changes musicians/eras, etc. I'm ready for the next phase so I don't really miss any of them.

World class talent, determination, vision and creativity are what put Princey on the map. Many other talented people contributed but he's the only one in that whole bunch that I would define as extraordinary.

Hey sis! Now that's what I'm talking about. You said it in just a few words. Like you said, 'many talented people may have contributed' but Prince was the one who 'stood out'. He created the images/music he wanted for that era, and moved on. He was able to create the images, fashion wise with the Purple Rain, 'Sign of the Times/Lovesexy eras' along with the fashion/styles of each era. Imagine if he stopped at the end of those eras, we would have never been able to see what more of his music skills/talent he was capable of. In the Africa Channel's Behind the Symbol concert special, I remember the Twinz saying how Prince, outside of the music/rehearsals for each show, was very involved in the creative process and vision he had for each show, including his input/opinions regarding the choreography, costumes for all the band members, the lighting , etc.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

2elijah said:

But anyway, besides all that, yes, back on topic. I agree with others here that Prince is doing just fine without W&L, and former associated band members. I do like how he changes/adds new musicians/artists in his band, and lets the light 'shine' on their talent, while on the same stage, and taking a back seat every now and then. He also seems content spiritually with his life and doesn't seem to stay stuck in the past.

How could he stay stuck in the past with all these damn chemtrails?

Aaah...but if you did your homework, you would have known that 'chemtrails' reference in the song "Dreamer", among other,references in the lyrics of that song, was basically a tribute to Prince's friend, Dick Gregory, when Dick Gregory discussed 'chemtrails' during the 2004 SOBU (State of the Black Union) conference. Dick Gregory talked about a 'manganese' plant located in a small town in Australia, that was responsible for numerous deaths of Australians, living in that community. He was trying to raise awareness about manganese, found in malt liquor. Malt liquor, which is distributed/sold in many Black communities throughout the U.S., and the dangers it can cause to one's physical/mental health. Other social ills that Dick Gregory spoke about during that 2004 SOBU conference, i.e. 'racial profiling' was referenced in Prince's song "Dreamer". Prince mentioned this during the Tavis Smiley interview, that Dick Gregory was his inspiration behind writing the song 'Dreamer' .

As a matter of fact, I'm going to listen to 'Dreamer' right now. I love the funk-rock sound in that song, it's so frigging awesome. Besides, Prince makes that guitar scream.

[Edited 1/27/12 22:33pm]

petes2 said:

Anyway, let's get back on the subject, yes he seems to have "stolen" basslines, riffs and so forth from the people around him. To this day some of his inner circle will tell you that he used to tape jams and then rerecord all the instruments himself and take credit. Most of us also know that Andre Cymone finally got his gold record for Controversy because he claimed Do Me Baby was a rip off from him. And Wendy and Lisa? Well, the song "Old Friends 4 Sale" seems to imply that Prince knew something the rest of us didn't as far as their contributions but I really didn't see a huge lot from them. Rumours that they "exposed" Prince to the Beatles and so forth sound kind of ridiculous because as long as I have heard, Prince grew up on 60's white radio, kind of hard to hide from the Beatles for anyone much less him. Some have said Wendy and Lisa were when he flourished, maybe they are right but I can't see that, I really can't, at least not to the point where some people say. I always thought it was an image thing myself. And as far as the Time, Vanity, Dez, etc.., I'm sure Prince stole whenever he felt like it but he also did plenty of work for the Time, supposedly, the first couple Time albums were pre-recorded by Prince and Matt and only Morris overdubbed later.

I'm sure many of P's band feel like they were involved in the creative process to some degree. Considering songs evolve from loose jams. "Clooren Baconskins" and "Soul Psychodelicide" come to mind and from what I've seen, how he can communicate to his band. P can tell them in music code off stage to play something and they will. Why not use something that works? I'm not sure if I would call that stealing per se but how musicians communicate.

My take on band members and contributions is much different than most. Who cares if W/L gave P some records he never heard before. I don't really care if P took some bass line from Andre. Those all seem minimal. I think what makes his better bands special is the chemistry that they added to the recordings/live shows. Songwriters can write all the songs in the world but if they don't have the right band during the recording process/live experience it will suck. The Revolution and NPG Gold era to me had crazy chemisty. W/L bax vocals were always amazing. P can find replacements a dime a dozen but chemistry matters. Listen to the magic P and Clare Fischer have! Do you think P can just go get anyone and expect the same results?? I don't.

A good example of a great recording is the Gold Experience. Now could have "Emancipation" been better if he still had that band around playing on the majority of those trax? Musicians have different feels, they don't play all things the same way. I like "Emancipation" sure P is always great but he would have knocked that turkey outta the park with the right lineup imo.

2elijah said:

babynoz said:

One of my favorite things about Prince is his versatility. When he changes musicians/eras, etc. I'm ready for the next phase so I don't really miss any of them.

World class talent, determination, vision and creativity are what put Princey on the map. Many other talented people contributed but he's the only one in that whole bunch that I would define as extraordinary.

Hey sis! Now that's what I'm talking about. You said it in just a few words. Like you said, 'many talented people may have contributed' but Prince was the one who 'stood out'. He created the images/music he wanted for that era, and moved on. He was able to create the images, fashion wise with the Purple Rain, 'Sign of the Times/Lovesexy eras' along with the fashion/styles of each era. Imagine if he stopped at the end of those eras, we would have never been able to see what more of his music skills/talent he was capable of. In the Africa Channel's Behind the Symbol concert special, I remember the Twinz saying how Prince, outside of the music/rehearsals for each show, was very involved in the creative process and vision he had for each show, including his input/opinions regarding the choreography, costumes for all the band members, the lighting , etc.

Perfectly said! That's what makes Prince one of the greatest artists to ever walk the face of this earth! HE JUST IS!

SuperFurryAnimal said:

petes2 said:

Anyway, let's get back on the subject, yes he seems to have "stolen" basslines, riffs and so forth from the people around him. To this day some of his inner circle will tell you that he used to tape jams and then rerecord all the instruments himself and take credit. Most of us also know that Andre Cymone finally got his gold record for Controversy because he claimed Do Me Baby was a rip off from him. And Wendy and Lisa? Well, the song "Old Friends 4 Sale" seems to imply that Prince knew something the rest of us didn't as far as their contributions but I really didn't see a huge lot from them. Rumours that they "exposed" Prince to the Beatles and so forth sound kind of ridiculous because as long as I have heard, Prince grew up on 60's white radio, kind of hard to hide from the Beatles for anyone much less him. Some have said Wendy and Lisa were when he flourished, maybe they are right but I can't see that, I really can't, at least not to the point where some people say. I always thought it was an image thing myself. And as far as the Time, Vanity, Dez, etc.., I'm sure Prince stole whenever he felt like it but he also did plenty of work for the Time, supposedly, the first couple Time albums were pre-recorded by Prince and Matt and only Morris overdubbed later.

I'm sure many of P's band feel like they were involved in the creative process to some degree. Considering songs evolve from loose jams. "Clooren Baconskins" and "Soul Psychodelicide" come to mind and from what I've seen, how he can communicate to his band. P can tell them in music code off stage to play something and they will. Why not use something that works? I'm not sure if I would call that stealing per se but how musicians communicate.

My take on band members and contributions is much different than most. Who cares if W/L gave P some records he never heard before. I don't really care if P took some bass line from Andre. Those all seem minimal. I think what makes his better bands special is the chemistry that they added to the recordings/live shows. Songwriters can write all the songs in the world but if they don't have the right band during the recording process/live experience it will suck. The Revolution and NPG Gold era to me had crazy chemisty. W/L bax vocals were always amazing. P can find replacements a dime a dozen but chemistry matters. Listen to the magic P and Clare Fischer have! Do you think P can just go get anyone and expect the same results?? I don't.

A good example of a great recording is the Gold Experience. Now could have "Emancipation" been better if he still had that band around playing on the majority of those trax? Musicians have different feels, they don't play all things the same way. I like "Emancipation" sure P is always great but he would have knocked that turkey outta the park with the right lineup imo.

Maybe, I liked Emancipation just fine and see the critiques here as just nitpicky. As far as Prince taking basslines and such, it's not something a lot of great artists don't do, Bruce Springsteen has his bands sign their lives away for "his" songs, Duke Ellington routinely took compositional credit for his musician's riffs or compostions. It's common and a common problem. Have you seen the Chuck Berry Docu "Hail, Hail Rock and Roll"? Keith Richards claims that Chuck Berry's pianist, Jonny Johnson, wrote the music for Chuck, he may have done some of it but that little bit but I seriously doubt he did anymore than Chuck did. Chuck got sued because of Keith's instigating because when people smell money in this society all bets are off. Should Prince have given Andre more than a gold record for Do Me Baby? I don't know, Should he have gotten songwriting credits? I guess so. Suffice to say, Prince would not be Prince as we know him without all those talented peoples around him, but on the other hand, I don't think anyone can argue that none of the morris' Jesse's etc.., would have made any impact without Prince.

petes2 said:

I don't think anyone can argue that none of the morris' Jesse's etc.., would have made any impact without Prince.

Right, maybe Tony M. wouldn't be flipping burger at McDonalds if it wasn't for Prince?

2elijah said:

Aaah...but if you did your homework, you would have known that 'chemtrails' reference in the song "Dreamer", among other,references in the lyrics of that song, was basically a tribute to Prince's friend, Dick Gregory, when Dick Gregory discussed 'chemtrails' during the 2004 SOBU (State of the Black Union) conference. Dick Gregory talked about a 'manganese' plant located in a small town in Australia, that was responsible for numerous deaths of Australians, living in that community. He was trying to raise awareness about manganese, found in malt liquor. Malt liquor, which is distributed/sold in many Black communities throughout the U.S., and the dangers it can cause to one's physical/mental health. Other social ills that Dick Gregory spoke about during that 2004 SOBU conference, i.e. 'racial profiling' was referenced in Prince's song "Dreamer". Prince mentioned this during the Tavis Smiley interview, that Dick Gregory was his inspiration behind writing the song 'Dreamer' .

As a matter of fact, I'm going to listen to 'Dreamer' right now. I love the funk-rock sound in that song, it's so frigging awesome. Besides, Prince makes that guitar scream.

[Edited 1/27/12 22:33pm]

U do realise P is in the entertainment industry?

[Edited 1/28/12 8:13am]

SuperFurryAnimal said:

2elijah said:

Aaah...but if you did your homework, you would have known that 'chemtrails' reference in the song "Dreamer", among other,references in the lyrics of that song, was basically a tribute to Prince's friend, Dick Gregory, when Dick Gregory discussed 'chemtrails' during the 2004 SOBU (State of the Black Union) conference. Dick Gregory talked about a 'manganese' plant located in a small town in Australia, that was responsible for numerous deaths of Australians, living in that community. He was trying to raise awareness about manganese, found in malt liquor. Malt liquor, which is distributed/sold in many Black communities throughout the U.S., and the dangers it can cause to one's physical/mental health. Other social ills that Dick Gregory spoke about during that 2004 SOBU conference, i.e. 'racial profiling' was referenced in Prince's song "Dreamer". Prince mentioned this during the Tavis Smiley interview, that Dick Gregory was his inspiration behind writing the song 'Dreamer' .

As a matter of fact, I'm going to listen to 'Dreamer' right now. I love the funk-rock sound in that song, it's so frigging awesome. Besides, Prince makes that guitar scream.

[Edited 1/27/12 22:33pm]

COOL! I'm jammin to some Jamiroquai "High times" the paranoia will destroy ya..paranoia...paranoia...paranoia..paranoia

Awww, well don't knock yourself out too much now. , but as stated, during his interview withTavis Smiley, he explained where he got the inspiration to write 'Dreamer'.

2elijah said:

Awww, well don't knock yourself out too much now. , but as stated, during his interview withTavis Smiley, he explained where he got the inspiration to write 'Dreamer'.

You do realize P is part of the entertainment industry? LOL. I know these things about what the song was about but I also know that Erotic City isn't a real place. I wouldn't go to the CEO or the company and say "Prince said..." as much as I would say "Michael Jackson said..." or "Kanye said" you do realize this is entertainment???

SuperFurryAnimal said:

2elijah said:

Awww, well don't knock yourself out too much now. , but as stated, during his interview withTavis Smiley, he explained where he got the inspiration to write 'Dreamer'.

You do realize P is part of the entertainment industry? LOL. I know these things about what the song was about but I also know that Erotic City isn't a real place. I wouldn't go to the CEO or the company and say "Prince said..." as much as I would say "Michael Jackson said..." or "Kanye said" you do realize this is entertainment???

Really you mean he's in entertainment? Whaaat??!!! you're kidding me? Well I'll be darned. All this because I told you where Prince 'stated' he got the inspiration to write 'Dreamer'? What tdoes 'Erotic City' have to do with what I stated?

Watch D. Gregory at the 2004 SOBU conference, and you will notice some of the lyrics in 'Dreamer', were comments that came from D. Gregory's mouth. You'll be okay. Didn't I tell you to be careful listening to too much of Jamiroquai's "High Times".

Matter of fact...let me help you with that. I'll show you just the portion of the lyrics Prince made referencem to what D.G said at that conference:

Portion of lyrics to "Dreamer" By Prince

"....Eye got another conspiracy..."

".....Have you ever clutched the steering wheel

D. G. said at the 2004 SOBU conference, and D.G. speaking about some 'conspiracies' as D.G. tends to dol. Tavis Smiley who had been hosting these conferences annually, also stated, publically, at the 2009 conference that Prince always had an interest in those conferences, and after each conference, Tavis and Prince would have long phone conversations related to issues discussed at those conferences. I think we both just cleared this up, and now we can move on and get back on topic. Thanks for your undivided attention, and I hope this helped.

[Edited 1/28/12 13:37pm]

2elijah said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

You do realize P is part of the entertainment industry? LOL. I know these things about what the song was about but I also know that Erotic City isn't a real place. I wouldn't go to the CEO or the company and say "Prince said..." as much as I would say "Michael Jackson said..." or "Kanye said" you do realize this is entertainment???

Really you mean he's in entertainment? Whaaat??!!! you're kidding me? Well I'll be darned. All this because I told you where Prince 'stated' he got the inspiration to write 'Dreamer'? What the heck does 'Erotic City' have to do with what I stated?

I wonder how much of the work is provocative to be provocative. If I started to believe in stuff like chemtrails or started to believe the aliens were anal probing me at night! I would consider checking in with a psychiatrist.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

2elijah said:

Really you mean he's in entertainment? Whaaat??!!! you're kidding me? Well I'll be darned. All this because I told you where Prince 'stated' he got the inspiration to write 'Dreamer'? What the heck does 'Erotic City' have to do with what I stated?

I wonder how much of the work is provocative to be provocative. If I started to believe in stuff like chemtrails or started to believe the aliens were anal probing me at night! I would consider checking in with a psychiatrist.

Well, that's a decision you're free to make on your own.

like i said before, this is a silly thread based on complete lies. Wendy and Lisa were fine musicians but they were not the geniuses they are made out to be. They had record deals and failed to achieve either commercial success or massive critical acclaim.

We know that Prince wrote songs like When Doves Cry, The Beautiful ones, If i was your girlfriend etc on his own (his own band members have stated this although posters like trevor are still in denial about it). I would love to know, what exactly did wendy or lisa write in their entire carrears that are as good as WDC of the beautiful ones? Answer: nothing.

Prince regularly wrote great hit songs for other artists, something that none of his bandmembers did. Why? Why did Prince help others become popular and yet his band members failed?

With all due respect to the OP and other posters like trevor, they are simply in denial. If Prince can write the biggest hit of his carrear (and arguably his greatest song), than he surely wrote other great songs.

hhhhdmt said:

like i said before, this is a silly thread based on complete lies. Wendy and Lisa were fine musicians but they were not the geniuses they are made out to be. They had record deals and failed to achieve either commercial success or massive critical acclaim.

We know that Prince wrote songs like When Doves Cry, The Beautiful ones, If i was your girlfriend etc on his own (his own band members have stated this although posters like trevor are still in denial about it). I would love to know, what exactly did wendy or lisa write in their entire carrears that are as good as WDC of the beautiful ones? Answer: nothing.

Prince regularly wrote great hit songs for other artists, something that none of his bandmembers did. Why? Why did Prince help others become popular and yet his band members failed?

With all due respect to the OP and other posters like trevor, they are simply in denial. If Prince can write the biggest hit of his carrear (and arguably his greatest song), than he surely wrote other great songs.

I tend to agree but what keeps me from completely believing that are the lyrics from old friends for sale, I mean it's pretty obvious that he's speaking of wendly and lisa, at least to me and how some of his other people are tugging at him to leave them. Also, I've said it a million times, lots of musicians around Prince had one or two things working for them, none was the complete package that Prince was. I've heard people here, in the know, say that Jesse Johnson was responsible for introducing Prince to a prettier look and picking a color as a gimmick. Jesse did not have the whole package though, no one did but Prince. So to say these other people definitely had nothing to offer is just not true. W and L may have done some things which prince recognized as contributing to his music. We really don't know, we are too far away. But I'll say this, wendy and lisa in particular got bigheaded with the rolling stone covers and the movie and tried to push their own agendas too hard in trying to turn the band into what their vision was and I believe that is why Prince cut ties. I'd put money on that.

petes2 said:

I tend to agree but what keeps me from completely believing that are the lyrics from old friends for sale, I mean it's pretty obvious that he's speaking of wendly and lisa, at least to me and how some of his other people are tugging at him to leave them. Also, I've said it a million times, lots of musicians around Prince had one or two things working for them, none was the complete package that Prince was. I've heard people here, in the know, say that Jesse Johnson was responsible for introducing Prince to a prettier look and picking a color as a gimmick. Jesse did not have the whole package though, no one did but Prince. So to say these other people definitely had nothing to offer is just not true. W and L may have done some things which prince recognized as contributing to his music. We really don't know, we are too far away. But I'll say this, wendy and lisa in particular got bigheaded with the rolling stone covers and the movie and tried to push their own agendas too hard in trying to turn the band into what their vision was and I believe that is why Prince cut ties. I'd put money on that.

I dunno, well known back then that Chick (ps security guard) sold pics/stories to media like national enquirer and the 2 friends got stuck in the show I always figured that was about Jam and Lewis. Coke part prolly about Chick, Morris? IDK? But I never thought that song had much to do about W/L?? How u get that???

I had this horrible HORRIBLE dream that there was a Prince/Wendy & Lisa thread that stirred up a fiery debate on the Org that went on and on and on and on and on and...oh wait.