rdhull said:

Get to work on those remasters and box sets with the right people.

Mmmhmmm!

Wall said:

What are you trying to get people to discuss? That Prince is old, irrelevant, forgotten, and as a result, fewer and fewer people are interested in his music? No shit. I'd say that's evident by the fact he couldn't give away his last album, nor could he find anyone in the states to distribute it. Although not getting 20ten distributed was a brilliant career move. If anything could tarnish his already fading 'genius' label, it would have been letting the massses have access to that embarassing mishmash of commericial jingles, sentimental rubbish and farcical hip-hop.

I didn't know he was supposed to be on a recording hiatus, but I'm sure that's just a bluff so his ego doesn't have to suffer further embarrassment from the low sales figures his records receive. He's probably recording some bullshit segue for his next failed side-project at this very moment. I can just see the engineer doing his best to force an awkward smile, assuring Prince, "Yeah, that was really funny..."

People don't like Prince's new music because there's no innovation, its drenched in religious bigotry and worst of all, it's boring. I mean, really, who in their right mind is going to come home from a long day of work and strike up 3121, Planet Earth or 20ten? I bet even Prince himself is flipping to the back of the stack at this point.

Just because you aren't into his work anymore, doesn't mean everyone else hates him too.

Why are you even still here if you think he sucks? Isn't that kinda ass-backwards? I don't visit forums for musicians I don't listen to or like...

jimino1 said:

sure he's got a huge catalogue - but he seems to play a lot of the same stuff...why play covers when he could be playing his own stuff?...that's always confused me..

I could'nt agree more. I saw several 21 night stand shows and wished there were more of his newer songs (newer being a releative term). He could have easily axed some of the covers and made room. That does make me feel as though he's not as confident or have as much fun performing the newer material.

I think the estimates expressed on this thread aren't realistic, but a reflection of personal opinion.

I do think Prince is sensitive to how his new music is received.

And that some orgers are very insensitive.

But that is just the org, there is much more than that.

Going in a 'hiatus' could and should have much more reason than that.

I can only hope he is just culling together an album very carefully from the the recordings he ALWAYS does whether or not he is touring.

I just popped in 20ten and found the first four tracks to be as fun and powerful to hear in sequence if not more fun than many of his classic 80's album. I DEFINITELY don't let nostalgia or outside culture effect my perception of what I like in music.

I also thought his first 4 tracks in sequence in 3121 was strong. Hold on, Planet Earth as well.

All these albums kind meander a bit for me after that. In the 80's his albums were meandering within the first four tracks. I'm going by my first impressions in each case, not going by slowly growing to love all those older songs and mix up their moods with live renditions and music videos.

I honestly believe Prince is better at crafting songs and song sequences now then he was in the 80's at the core of the music (maybe not lyrics). There were some really lame compositions going on back then that he's release. I've always thought so. The only difference is that he was really working hard to have a unique production sound (with his mixing and effects) and he was also in a youthful more teenage friendly frame of mind with his lyrics, which is what pop music was always about.

I can only hope he doesn't let any of his album sales effect his production rate, because I always enjoy his new releases. The only ones I don't get much from are Chaos and Disorder, The Vault, One Night Alone (piano album), The Truth as album sequences. But even thoses have one or two gems each.

Romeoblu said:

You say 10% enjoy his recent music. I think it's far higher than that. At least. 50/50. In the recent 20ten thread the yays out numbered the nays by quite a bit. Those who don't like something shout louder and more frequently.

I do agree with this. Look at how his albums are selling - Lotus did over 500,000 in the US alone; 3121 I believe did over a million. His other recent albums were given away. But clearly everyone doesn't hate his recent music if he's still having his albums go gold.

joyinrepetition said:

Prince's music on Bria's Elixer album was great and had he released it under his name, I feel that it would've been big. Prince needs to step out his comfort zone as someone said and do something different like that. Not everything has to have that Prince/MPLSOUND.

I also agree with this. Imo, his best albums of the past 10 years were: The Rainbow Children, Lotusflow3r & One Nite Alone... all three took his music in a different direction. MPLSound and 20Ten are backtracking and trying to be 80s again. And failing miserably.

WinterIsComing said:

jimino1 said:

sure he's got a huge catalogue - but he seems to play a lot of the same stuff...why play covers when he could be playing his own stuff?...that's always confused me..

I could'nt agree more. I saw several 21 night stand shows and wished there were more of his newer songs (newer being a releative term). He could have easily axed some of the covers and made room. That does make me feel as though he's not as confident or have as much fun performing the newer material.

I'm just going by history with Prince and in the past by the time an album was released he was already well on his way with the next one. He wasn't afraid to play the new material from the current album live. The first time I can remember that happening was Emancipation. It's been the same every since. Those who say he has to play ALL the hits over and over and over are full of it, he just knows the new material is not going to bring those same people back the next time around like the hits obviously do.

I never thought Prince would have become a nostalgic act and that Madonna would be selling out stadiums playing new material.

motherfunka said:

WinterIsComing said:

I could'nt agree more. I saw several 21 night stand shows and wished there were more of his newer songs (newer being a releative term). He could have easily axed some of the covers and made room. That does make me feel as though he's not as confident or have as much fun performing the newer material.

I'm just going by history with Prince and in the past by the time an album was released he was already well on his way with the next one. He wasn't afraid to play the new material from the current album live. The first time I can remember that happening was Emancipation. It's been the same every since. Those who say he has to play ALL the hits over and over and over are full of it, he just knows the new material is not going to bring those same people back the next time around like the hits obviously do.

I never thought Prince would have become a nostalgic act and that Madonna would be selling out stadiums playing new material.

Madonna plays a lot of her hits and just a few items that are new (like Prince):

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/madonna/2010/the-new-ritz-new-york-ny-7bd5f698.html

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/madonna/2009/bemowo-airport-warsaw-poland-43d7af2f.html

Giovanni777 said:

Here on the Org, about 10% of the members welcome and enjoy Prince's recent material, and about 90% seem to be living in the past... either '80s or '90s. I've said before that 'Lotusflower' stands up to any Prince album ever.

Please discuss.

~G

I think its unfair to suggest that 90% are living in the past.

I have loved all the recent material, but I understand how others consider it inconsistant or weaker.

I would put Lotusflower last in the list of 00's albums. I think the best in Planet Earth, and I think that 20ten captures the essence of P more than LF. Each to there own.

But I do get where you are coming from.

Even if you and I like the new stuff, its a fair point made by those that don't that P himself doesn't seem to believe in the new music anymore.

ufoclub said:

motherfunka said:

I'm just going by history with Prince and in the past by the time an album was released he was already well on his way with the next one. He wasn't afraid to play the new material from the current album live. The first time I can remember that happening was Emancipation. It's been the same every since. Those who say he has to play ALL the hits over and over and over are full of it, he just knows the new material is not going to bring those same people back the next time around like the hits obviously do.

I never thought Prince would have become a nostalgic act and that Madonna would be selling out stadiums playing new material.

Madonna plays a lot of her hits and just a few items that are new (like Prince):

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/madonna/2010/the-new-ritz-new-york-ny-7bd5f698.html

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/madonna/2009/bemowo-airport-warsaw-poland-43d7af2f.html

Not even close.

Hard Candy/Sticky and Sweet Tour - 9 out of 12 new songs were played

Confessions On A Dance Floor/Confessions Tour - 10 out of 12 new songs were played

American Life/Reinvention Tour - 6 out of 11 new songs were played

Ray of Light and Music/Drowned World Tour - 15 out of 23 new songs were played

Prince hasn't played that many new songs since The Ultimate Live Experience Tour, like 17 years ago.

motherfunka said:

ufoclub said:

Madonna plays a lot of her hits and just a few items that are new (like Prince):

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/madonna/2010/the-new-ritz-new-york-ny-7bd5f698.html

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/madonna/2009/bemowo-airport-warsaw-poland-43d7af2f.html

Not even close.

Hard Candy/Sticky and Sweet Tour - 9 out of 12 new songs were played

Confessions On A Dance Floor/Confessions Tour - 10 out of 12 new songs were played

American Life/Reinvention Tour - 6 out of 11 new songs were played

Ray of Light and Music/Drowned World Tour - 15 out of 23 new songs were played

Prince hasn't played that many new songs since The Ultimate Live Experience Tour, like 17 years ago.

okay I see that she does include a lot of new material, the concert I saw of hers had about half older hits like this:

1. Candy Shop
2. Beat Goes On
3. Human Nature
4. Vogue
5. Into the Groove
6. Heart Beat
7. Borderline
8. She's Not Me
9. Music
10. Devil Wouldn't Recognize You
11. Spanish Lesson
12. Miles Away
13. La Isla Bonita
    (With "Lela Pala Tute" snippet)
14. You Must Love Me
15. Encore:
16. 4 Minutes
17. Like a Prayer
18. Ray of Light
19. Hung Up
20. Give It 2 Me

ufoclub said:

motherfunka said:

Not even close.

Hard Candy/Sticky and Sweet Tour - 9 out of 12 new songs were played

Confessions On A Dance Floor/Confessions Tour - 10 out of 12 new songs were played

American Life/Reinvention Tour - 6 out of 11 new songs were played

Ray of Light and Music/Drowned World Tour - 15 out of 23 new songs were played

Prince hasn't played that many new songs since The Ultimate Live Experience Tour, like 17 years ago.

okay I see that she does include a lot of new material, the concert I saw of hers had about half older hits like this:

1. Candy Shop
2. Beat Goes On
3. Human Nature
4. Vogue
5. Into the Groove
6. Heart Beat
7. Borderline
8. She's Not Me
9. Music
10. Devil Wouldn't Recognize You
11. Spanish Lesson
12. Miles Away
13. La Isla Bonita
    (With "Lela Pala Tute" snippet)
14. You Must Love Me
15. Encore:
16. 4 Minutes
17. Like a Prayer
18. Ray of Light
19. Hung Up
20. Give It 2 Me

The main point I was trying to make was that she does play a lot of her new material, and there is a good mix of songs throughout all of her career too. Prince is pretty much all old songs, and it's usually the same old songs over and over. Rarely anything within the past 20 years.

I know a lot of people think there are no comparisons between Prince and Madonna, but they became huge at the same time and I just never thought Madonna would be the one far ahead of the game. I think Prince just gives away his albums, because he's afraid no one will actually buy them.

I'm a huge Stevie Nicks fan and have seen several of her tours over the years. She was another one that would just stick with the hits, and maybe add a couple new songs into the set. It kind of was getting old, especially if you had seen prior tours where the same songs were done. Finally this past year she went on tour and played several new songs becasue she said herself she knew how good the songs were and that people would enjoy it. I just wish Prince could make that happen again.

motherfunka said:

ufoclub said:

okay I see that she does include a lot of new material, the concert I saw of hers had about half older hits like this:

1. Candy Shop
2. Beat Goes On
3. Human Nature
4. Vogue
5. Into the Groove
6. Heart Beat
7. Borderline
8. She's Not Me
9. Music
10. Devil Wouldn't Recognize You
11. Spanish Lesson
12. Miles Away
13. La Isla Bonita
    (With "Lela Pala Tute" snippet)
14. You Must Love Me
15. Encore:
16. 4 Minutes
17. Like a Prayer
18. Ray of Light
19. Hung Up
20. Give It 2 Me

The main point I was trying to make was that she does play a lot of her new material, and there is a good mix of songs throughout all of her career too. Prince is pretty much all old songs, and it's usually the same old songs over and over. Rarely anything within the past 20 years.

I know a lot of people think there are no comparisons between Prince and Madonna, but they became huge at the same time and I just never thought Madonna would be the one far ahead of the game. I think Prince just gives away his albums, because he's afraid no one will actually buy them.

I'm a huge Stevie Nicks fan and have seen several of her tours over the years. She was another one that would just stick with the hits, and maybe add a couple new songs into the set. It kind of was getting old, especially if you had seen prior tours where the same songs were done. Finally this past year she went on tour and played several new songs becasue she said herself she knew how good the songs were and that people would enjoy it. I just wish Prince could make that happen again.

I understand that logic, but also I think it's just a fundamental difference in how Prince and Madonna approach new music. Prince has always done his own thing regardless of whether or not the mainstream accepts it. Madonna has usually gone along with current trends, imo. Some might call her a shrewd business woman, because she's always trying to appeal to a mainstream crowd. I respect that Prince pretty much does it for himself at this point. Very occasionally he may make a concession to the mainstream (Rave and Musicology). I guess that's why Prince chooses to play the established money making songs in his concerts, because he's knows a lot of the newer stuff will be lost on a generation of people who only listen to pop radio or what mainstream media feeds them. But he still usually throws us hardcores a couple of bones anyway on the recent tours.

jtgillia said:

motherfunka said:

The main point I was trying to make was that she does play a lot of her new material, and there is a good mix of songs throughout all of her career too. Prince is pretty much all old songs, and it's usually the same old songs over and over. Rarely anything within the past 20 years.

I know a lot of people think there are no comparisons between Prince and Madonna, but they became huge at the same time and I just never thought Madonna would be the one far ahead of the game. I think Prince just gives away his albums, because he's afraid no one will actually buy them.

I'm a huge Stevie Nicks fan and have seen several of her tours over the years. She was another one that would just stick with the hits, and maybe add a couple new songs into the set. It kind of was getting old, especially if you had seen prior tours where the same songs were done. Finally this past year she went on tour and played several new songs becasue she said herself she knew how good the songs were and that people would enjoy it. I just wish Prince could make that happen again.

I understand that logic, but also I think it's just a fundamental difference in how Prince and Madonna approach new music. Prince has always done his own thing regardless of whether or not the mainstream accepts it. Madonna has usually gone along with current trends, imo. Some might call her a shrewd business woman, because she's always trying to appeal to a mainstream crowd. I respect that Prince pretty much does it for himself at this point. Very occasionally he may make a concession to the mainstream (Rave and Musicology). I guess that's why Prince chooses to play the established money making songs in his concerts, because he's knows a lot of the newer stuff will be lost on a generation of people who only listen to pop radio or what mainstream media feeds them. But he still usually throws us hardcores a couple of bones anyway on the recent tours.

Those statements used to be true many years ago. He's just playing it safe now and taking no risks and sticking with the old hits, that we've all heard over and over and over. I still enjoy his shows, just nothing jaw dropping anymore!

joyinrepetition said:

Prince's music on Bria's Elixer album was great and had he released it under his name, I feel that it would've been big. Prince needs to step out his comfort zone as someone said and do something different like that. Not everything has to have that Prince/MPLSOUND.

Well this is exactly how I felt about 'Lotusflower'. It was unlike anything he's ever done... with an obvious homage to Jimi Hendrix, circa Band of Gypsies era.

The only issue I have with 'Lotusflower', is that I felt he should've had "The Morning After" on the official release instead of "Crimson and Clover".

^^

great post!

Giovanni777 said:

I've said before that 'Lotusflower' stands up to any Prince album ever

And you're right about that!

Giovanni777 said:

Here on the Org, about 10% of the members welcome and enjoy Prince's recent material, and about 90% seem to be living in the past... either '80s or '90s.

That's funny- I listen to a TON of contemporary artists...so i can't be living in the past. Most of these artists are inferor musicians compared to Prince as well..but I think their work is more interesting and enjoyable. IMO Prince is on autopilot 90% of the time, so the new music just doesn't interest me. I thought Lotusflower was half baked and predictible. I can tell where his runs are going to go 80% of the time and I'm not a musician. What made him best- imo - was having something to say that was his own and had his own way of expressing theings. He was lever. He was funny. Somewhere along the way instead of taking what he knows musically and building on it he started simple dropping back and sounding like plasticised versions of what he listened to growing up. No rawness...lazy production and throwaway lyrics. I can't say there haven't been moments where I began to feel what made him the artist he is peek through in a song or two, but that's about it. How do you create with no influence or challenge? Or people whose ear you trust to say...DAMN! THAT is IT! or..HELL NO! I almost can know for sure he's got no one saying hell NO!! lol. That being said he can do what he wants. It's a shame to watch someone with all that ability not produce great work...but that is his perogative. He has produced a huge catalogue of great work and I'm happy with it. That does'nt mean I can't hope for something that moves me again from him (other than live performances).

Giovanni777 said:

Back in February, 2011, I started a thread expressing my worries about Prince releasing/distributing another new album, based on methods of physical distribution (other than the internet), and the possibility of him being disappointed with the fan/fam reception of his new material.

Since then, he has announced that he was taking a hiatus from recording. The reason he gave at the time, was because of the lack of control over piracy...

With 'Lotusflower' being largely under appreciated, and with the overwhelmingly negative reception of '20ten', one must wonder whether he wants to release anything at this point.

In fact, I'd go as far to say that something very disappointing happened with regards to the '20ten' release. He may have approached a label, or other entity capable of distribution, and couldn't find a deal that was satisfactory, therefore just simply giving it away the way he did. I'd even bet that the album was longer, via either more songs, or longer versions of the ones on '20ten' (which appears VERY evident, by the way some of the songs begin and end.

Here on the Org, about 10% of the members welcome and enjoy Prince's recent material, and about 90% seem to be living in the past... either '80s or '90s. I've said before that 'Lotusflower' stands up to any Prince album ever.

To give you all an idea of my taste, here are my favourite Prince albums (chronologically):

Controversy

1999

Around The World in a Day

Parade

Sign O' The Times

Lovesexy

The Rainbow Children

N.E.W.S.

Lotusflower

In case you wish to reference the thread I started back in February, 2011:

http://prince.org/msg/7/352683

Please discuss.

~G

I would add 3121 to that list of my most recent cds that are my favs.

I agree, Lotusflowr is a winner.Songs like Dreamer, Boom, Colonized Mind and even Love Like Jazz were awesome tracks.

Giovanni777 said:

joyinrepetition said:

Prince's music on Bria's Elixer album was great and had he released it under his name, I feel that it would've been big. Prince needs to step out his comfort zone as someone said and do something different like that. Not everything has to have that Prince/MPLSOUND.

Well this is exactly how I felt about 'Lotusflower'. It was unlike anything he's ever done... with an obvious homage to Jimi Hendrix, circa Band of Gypsies era.

The only issue I have with 'Lotusflower', is that I felt he should've had "The Morning After" on the official release instead of "Crimson and Clover".

I think it should've included both. "Crimson and Clover" seemed to get more love from fans, but I think they're both great. But I agree that "It's time for new direction". His best albums from recent years, imo, were TRC, ONA & Lotus - all very different from anything he'd done before.

IstenSzek said:

[really long post]

I agree with what you said.

But I also think Prince has a larger fan base then you said. 'Lotus' did over 500,000 (I think that's just the US, too); and '3121' did over a million. The other recent albums were giveaways at one point, so it's hard to say how much they sold. Still, I think Prince is guaranteed probably 200,000 copies if he gives the album a standard (in stores, iTunes, etc.) release. 'Lotus' didn't even have that, and look how well it did, of course it was promoted decently. At times, there are over 50,000 people on this site - and you know not every Prince fan in the world comes to this site.

[Edited 1/16/12 14:49pm]

Zannaloaf said:

Giovanni777 said:

Here on the Org, about 10% of the members welcome and enjoy Prince's recent material, and about 90% seem to be living in the past... either '80s or '90s.

That's funny- I listen to a TON of contemporary artists...so i can't be living in the past. Most of these artists are inferor musicians compared to Prince as well..but I think their work is more interesting and enjoyable. IMO Prince is on autopilot 90% of the time, so the new music just doesn't interest me. I thought Lotusflower was half baked and predictible. I can tell where his runs are going to go 80% of the time and I'm not a musician. What made him best- imo - was having something to say that was his own and had his own way of expressing theings. He was lever. He was funny. Somewhere along the way instead of taking what he knows musically and building on it he started simple dropping back and sounding like plasticised versions of what he listened to growing up. No rawness...lazy production and throwaway lyrics. I can't say there haven't been moments where I began to feel what made him the artist he is peek through in a song or two, but that's about it. How do you create with no influence or challenge? Or people whose ear you trust to say...DAMN! THAT is IT! or..HELL NO! I almost can know for sure he's got no one saying hell NO!! lol. That being said he can do what he wants. It's a shame to watch someone with all that ability not produce great work...but that is his perogative. He has produced a huge catalogue of great work and I'm happy with it. That does'nt mean I can't hope for something that moves me again from him (other than live performances).

I find the production on his latest albums much better than the 80s and 90s stuff; I don't like 'rawness' though. I also think his lyrics are better now than they've ever been. I find the sex and partying of the 80s immature and completely unrelatable to me.

Also, I don't think Prince needs people to tell him when his music sucks, and what he should and shouldn't release. I'm sure some people would have told him "Dirty Mind", "Lovesexy", "The Black Album", etc.. sucked and/or shouldn't have been released - what if he'd listened then?

As erik319 once said:

one man's gold is another man's Jughead

As I've said before, I'm content buying all the music he releases, then just picking my favorite stuff to listen to. I agree that his music often sounds uninspired now, but I still find it enjoyable most of the time.

I think saying only 10% of people HERE "appreciates" Prince's newer music is not accurate. Even though I think he could've edited some portions, for the most part, his Lotus Flow3r and 20Ten albums have some real good material. Musicology and 3121 proved he still could be exciting. Plus I think some people have overstated this site's importance as if this site got him to stop wanting to release new material or that it's just his issues with the internet in general that led him to make the statements he made. Besides Prince is still putting out music right now. Not in albums but still.

Plus people know Prince always say things to get people's attention lol

I hate the negativitiy that explodes on here whenever the guys puts out new stuff. Of course people have their own opinions, but I also think people keep expecting another SOTT or Parade, and that simply isn't going to happen, as the guy (and I hope everyone) has SO moved on since then. Believe me that 80s stuff is why I am a fan and they ARE masterpieces, but he's on an artistic path that keeps winding in different directions. Are we all going to dig everything he does? Of course not, but I don't think people need to crap on it as bad as they do on here. The stuff he's doing with Andy could be great who knows? I am certainly open to it. 20Ten was good, nothing earth shattering but decent. I think LotusFlower was the best thing the guy has done since TGE...that is absolutely no joke. MPLSound and Bria's albums were good bonuses. 3121 was almost as good as Lotus. Planet Earth has some spectacular moments (Somewhere Here on Earth is simply dreamy). I can't wait to see what else he is up to, personally, but I will put money on the fact the guy is far from one recording or releasing new stuff.

Timmy84 said:

Plus I think some people have overstated this site's importance

Oh, absolutely. This site isn't an accurate representation of Prince's entire fan base. As I said, his albums are still selling very well, and most people I know, fans or not, like his new music when I play it. It's only a few grouchy old people here that hate everything. The only reason Prince isn't still as mainstream popular as MJ or Madonna is because he doesn't care enough to promote himself properly.

[Edited 1/16/12 15:55pm]

3121 was highly under appreciated. I use to say that about other albums, but later realized "yup, that album sucked" lol. Even though 3121 wasn't my favorite, it was one of his best. Plus, it had five Grammy nods.

JMO

I think he has had a few set backs....21 nights in LA wasn't as successful as planned. I think there is more behind 20Ten we don't know. I believe studio behind 3121 dropped the ball a little. The website...glad I didn't pay the $77.

BUT

Since 2004 he has had a good run....sold out tours, #1 albums, Grammy's, H.O.F, Golden Globes and other awards. (He cares about awards...I have been to Paisley Park and the trophy case is on display)....

I believe he won just as many or more Grammy's during this run then he did in the 80's. CRAZY!!!

Why didn't Diamonds and Pearls win anything???