Of course, for serious, long-time fans there is not much that most of us did not already know in The Original Seven DVD, but after hearing from their own mouths what they endured from Prince I am amazed that they don't hate Prince. I have never been under the illusion that because someone is skilled at something (art, athletics, etc...) that one is also a nice human being, even if that person creates art that articulates sentiments with which I agree. So I am not shocked hearing that Prince was, is, or can be a selfish, egotistical prick/dictator. Again, most serious fans already know most of it. But, having it told from them and hearing the pain and anger in their voices coupled with their joy and appreciation, I find their level of forgiveness and ability to be thankful for what Prince has done for them admirable if not enlightening, especially when we add the fact that they were not allowed to use their own name.

Don't get me wrong. I'm still one of the Kool-Aid drinkers who thinks that Musicology, Lotusflow3r/MPLS, and 20Ten are great to good albums, but combining the inability of The Time to use their name with everything else that was done to them causes Prince's notions and declarations of spiritual enlightenment to fall a bit flat or seem a bit hypocritical. And, I guess that I am just really shocked at how moving or sad I found a lot of the documentary to be even after having known most of the information for the past thirty years. The documentary seems to capture a raw honesty of who these men are, what music means to them, and what they were willing to endure to accomplish their dreams. And even though the documentary is over an hour long, I could have watched another hour of it. The Original Seven DVD provides a damn good view into the lives of men whose entire lives have been driven by the love of music while refusing to allow anything to destroy their connection to each other and their origins.

Nothing they say about him is new. But you have to consider that you're just hearing their side of things. People like to paint things black and white for simplicity's sake that isn't always black and white, I'm sure their relationships aren't either.

Of course they don't hate Prince. It's fans keeping up that fake image of them beefing.

I have much love for the Time and the name Time should be owned by them after 30 years ,BUT....

why did Morris Day get hooked on cocaine and break up/leave the Time?

if Jam and Lewis loved the other guys so much why didn't they write/create a new persona for the group before now?

if Prince is Satan Jr. why did they work with him on the hideous Graffiti Bridge/Pandamonium projects?

On the surface it seems like Prince is a Jerk for not letting them use the name The Time. But if you think about it, Prince wrote, produced and played on practically all of the first four Time albums. He really is the orignal and most important member of the time even though he is behind the scenes... So for those guys to say OK we're gonna get together and do something of our own without your involvement, I guess I can understand his reasoning for keeping the name.

I mean should the rest of U2 get together without Bono and go around calling themselves U2?

Sure up on stage they are the same band as ever but the new music without any input from Prince is something else. Still good though. I enjoy the album very much, and I think it's good in a way that they have a new name because it does make the statement that this is their work and not written, produced, played by Jamie Starr

What I was baffled by was that this is all of the Time reuniting, touring and recording again (I know, I know, just humor me)...it's not great money, but some money none the less with the nostalgia aspect. Fact is, Prince owns the music and the name. What does that mean kids? Thus if they make money, Prince as a result MAKES MONEY at least from the touring.

And of course logically, Prince said no to making money that didn't involve touring and you know, work. Thus The Original 7ven won't make as much money if they were "The Time" because how many are even aware of that necessary name change? The outreach would've be much greater.

(And sorry, but it's one thing if or two former co-workers/employees call Mr. P out but...I've lost count.)

drclay said:

On the surface it seems like Prince is a Jerk for not letting them use the name The Time. But if you think about it, Prince wrote, produced and played on practically all of the first four Time albums. He really is the orignal and most important member of the time even though he is behind the scenes... So for those guys to say OK we're gonna get together and do something of our own without your involvement, I guess I can understand his reasoning for keeping the name.

I mean should the rest of U2 get together without Bono and go around calling themselves U2?

Sure up on stage they are the same band as ever but the new music without any input from Prince is something else. Still good though. I enjoy the album very much, and I think it's good in a way that they have a new name because it does make the statement that this is their work and not written, produced, played by Jamie Starr

they did ask prince to be on the project but he refused

muleFunk said:

I have much love for the Time and the name Time should be owned by them after 30 years ,BUT....

why did Morris Day get hooked on cocaine and break up/leave the Time?

if Jam and Lewis loved the other guys so much why didn't they write/create a new persona for the group before now?

if Prince is Satan Jr. why did they work with him on the hideous Graffiti Bridge/Pandamonium projects?

I LOVE IT!!!

[Edited 12/7/11 20:09pm]

1725topp said:

Of course, for serious, long-time fans there is not much that most of us did not already know in The Original Seven DVD, but after hearing from their own mouths what they endured from Prince I am amazed that they don't hate Prince. I have never been under the illusion that because someone is skilled at something (art, athletics, etc...) that one is also a nice human being, even if that person creates art that articulates sentiments with which I agree. So I am not shocked hearing that Prince was, is, or can be a selfish, egotistical prick/dictator. Again, most serious fans already know most of it. But, having it told from them and hearing the pain and anger in their voices coupled with their joy and appreciation, I find their level of forgiveness and ability to be thankful for what Prince has done for them admirable if not enlightening, especially when we add the fact that they were not allowed to use their own name.

Don't get me wrong. I'm still one of the Kool-Aid drinkers who thinks that Musicology, Lotusflow3r/MPLS, and 20Ten are great to good albums, but combining the inability of The Time to use their name with everything else that was done to them causes Prince's notions and declarations of spiritual enlightenment to fall a bit flat or seem a bit hypocritical. And, I guess that I am just really shocked at how moving or sad I found a lot of the documentary to be even after having known most of the information for the past thirty years. The documentary seems to capture a raw honesty of who these men are, what music means to them, and what they were willing to endure to accomplish their dreams. And even though the documentary is over an hour long, I could have watched another hour of it. The Original Seven DVD provides a damn good view into the lives of men whose entire lives have been driven by the love of music while refusing to allow anything to destroy their connection to each other and their origins.

I've said it before and here I'll say it again. If life with Prince was such a living hell then why did Jerome Benton hang around to do another movie, be on the Purple Rain tour, join the Family and subsequently join the Revolution. Jellybean at least said he stayed because he had mouths to feed.

I don't believe back then that they all trusted each other enough to risk trying anything other than what they all did at the time. Maybe that trust grew over the years but back then it wasn't there. Jam & Lewis obviously trusted each other enough to get up and walk away. At that time in their careers Prince did everything for them and that's a crutch and a burden at the same time. You want to take control but are you sure you really know how to? Especially when your supposed leader is doing coke and partying. Some of them could deal with it and others couldn't.

Right now in 2011 they have to present a united front on the issue of Prince or come across as ungrateful for the start and the opportunity they now have. It's all just water under the bridge now though.

muleFunk said:

I have much love for the Time and the name Time should be owned by them after 30 years ,BUT....

why did Morris Day get hooked on cocaine and break up/leave the Time?

if Jam and Lewis loved the other guys so much why didn't they write/create a new persona for the group before now?

if Prince is Satan Jr. why did they work with him on the hideous Graffiti Bridge/Pandamonium projects?

I had some smart, clever and snarky remarks to every one of your questions except that one....

and to think..if he never was this so called asshole...this band/dvd would have never even existed

.

[Edited 12/7/11 21:46pm]

1725topp said:

Of course, for serious, long-time fans there is not much that most of us did not already know in The Original Seven DVD, but after hearing from their own mouths what they endured from Prince I am amazed that they don't hate Prince. I have never been under the illusion that because someone is skilled at something (art, athletics, etc...) that one is also a nice human being, even if that person creates art that articulates sentiments with which I agree. So I am not shocked hearing that Prince was, is, or can be a selfish, egotistical prick/dictator. Again, most serious fans already know most of it. But, having it told from them and hearing the pain and anger in their voices coupled with their joy and appreciation, I find their level of forgiveness and ability to be thankful for what Prince has done for them admirable if not enlightening, especially when we add the fact that they were not allowed to use their own name.

Don't get me wrong. I'm still one of the Kool-Aid drinkers who thinks that Musicology, Lotusflow3r/MPLS, and 20Ten are great to good albums, but combining the inability of The Time to use their name with everything else that was done to them causes Prince's notions and declarations of spiritual enlightenment to fall a bit flat or seem a bit hypocritical. And, I guess that I am just really shocked at how moving or sad I found a lot of the documentary to be even after having known most of the information for the past thirty years. The documentary seems to capture a raw honesty of who these men are, what music means to them, and what they were willing to endure to accomplish their dreams. And even though the documentary is over an hour long, I could have watched another hour of it. The Original Seven DVD provides a damn good view into the lives of men whose entire lives have been driven by the love of music while refusing to allow anything to destroy their connection to each other and their origins.

I don't see why they would need to harbor any hate for him over a name of a group he created and songs he wrote for that group anyway. As he did contribute to their career as a group. Not to mention, that most of the 'O7' aka The Time fans are mainly from Prince's fan base. So with that being said, they are still benefitting from Prince, because even under the new name, they are pulling many of their fans straight from Prince's fan base. Can't deny that they're are all mostly known from the start of their careers, because of Prince. So I guess as far as their 'forgiveness' towards him, it's really best for them to move forward under their new name instead of carrying grudges that will do nothing to contribute to their moving forward as a new group. Just my two cents.

[Edited 12/8/11 8:24am]

Anyone know where this can be seen for the non US fans?

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Anyone know where this can be seen for the non US fans?

Purchase the cd.

^^^ The Time had their own fans. I know people who liked The Time who weren't into Prince that way. The Time had people dressing like them, dancing like them, & they had their own following IMO. I don't think they came solely from Prince's fan base. The Time drew a new crowd when they came into the fold. Their music was different. Funny that Prince created The Time, wrote and played the music, but The Time was a different vibe, a different movement. I saw The OG 7 recently, and their crowd was vastly different from the crowd that I saw at the LA shows for Prince.

Graycap23 said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Anyone know where this can be seen for the non US fans?

Purchase the cd.

I already have, but the docu only comes if you buy it over there.

drclay said:

On the surface it seems like Prince is a Jerk for not letting them use the name The Time. But if you think about it, Prince wrote, produced and played on practically all of the first four Time albums. He really is the orignal and most important member of the time even though he is behind the scenes... So for those guys to say OK we're gonna get together and do something of our own without your involvement, I guess I can understand his reasoning for keeping the name.

I mean should the rest of U2 get together without Bono and go around calling themselves U2?

Sure up on stage they are the same band as ever but the new music without any input from Prince is something else. Still good though. I enjoy the album very much, and I think it's good in a way that they have a new name because it does make the statement that this is their work and not written, produced, played by Jamie Starr

We've been through this before. Prince is the writer/producer. The band, is the band.

Bands and groups are often put together by a producer or ideas person, the band has 2 or 3 albums with them, then goes on to work with other producers or have more autonomy. Is the band the original producer, or the existing unit? A little from column A, a little from column B? Probably - but either way, the group is a separate entity from whatever producer instigates their conception. Prince's satellite acts are no different to any other manufactured band in pop music history, I don't know why some fans make the distinction (obv. I do know, but whatever!)

MadamGoodnight said:

^^^ The Time had their own fans. I know people who liked The Time who weren't into Prince that way. The Time had people dressing like them, dancing like them, & they had their own following IMO. I don't think they came solely from Prince's fan base. The Time drew a new crowd when they came into the fold. Their music was different. Funny that Prince created The Time, wrote and played the music, but The Time was a different vibe, a different movement. I saw The OG 7 recently, and their crowd was vastly different from the crowd that I saw at the LA shows for Prince.

It was designed that way. Just another side of Prince.

rdhull said:

and to think..if he never was this so called asshole...this band/dvd would have never even existed

MadamGoodnight said:

^^^ The Time had their own fans. I know people who liked The Time who weren't into Prince that way. The Time had people dressing like them, dancing like them, & they had their own following IMO. I don't think they came solely from Prince's fan base. The Time drew a new crowd when they came into the fold. Their music was different. Funny that Prince created The Time, wrote and played the music, but The Time was a different vibe, a different movement. I saw The OG 7 recently, and their crowd was vastly different from the crowd that I saw at the LA shows for Prince.

I'm sure they did and still do, but many of their fans came from Prince's fan base, and still do, and that's not a bad thing at all. They're benefitting from it with Prince fans helping to spread the word of their new name, cd, tours, any tv appearances, concerts, etc. Every little bit helps, that's all I'm saying.

Graycap23 said:

MadamGoodnight said:

^^^ The Time had their own fans. I know people who liked The Time who weren't into Prince that way. The Time had people dressing like them, dancing like them, & they had their own following IMO. I don't think they came solely from Prince's fan base. The Time drew a new crowd when they came into the fold. Their music was different. Funny that Prince created The Time, wrote and played the music, but The Time was a different vibe, a different movement. I saw The OG 7 recently, and their crowd was vastly different from the crowd that I saw at the LA shows for Prince.

It was designed that way. Just another side of Prince.

You hit the nail on the head.

2elijah said:

Graycap23 said:

It was designed that way. Just another side of Prince.

You hit the nail on the head.

The Time is Prince's career path if he had decided 2 stay R&b/Funk only.

Graycap23 said:

2elijah said:

You hit the nail on the head.

The Time is Prince's career path if he had decided 2 stay R&b/Funk only.

Agree. The Time was/is Prince, even though they added some of their own flavor/character to the image(s) they presented in their stage performance(s). Now that they're the 'O7', I'd like to see if they will maintain the 'Time' image or change how they present their music and stage presence/performances, now that they claim they are, well.... 'Princeless' and 'original'. I don't know about them being 'original' though, since they still seem to be emulating musically/stage performance-wise, everything as Prince's group formerly known as 'The Time'. Just sayin'. Still love the group though.

[Edited 12/8/11 10:21am]

A lot of interesting comments and questions:

*

Mulefunk said: why did Morris Day get hooked on cocaine and break up/leave the Time?

*

I would only assert that the firing of Jam and Lewis was as much a blow to The Time as Day’s drug use. Of course, we would have to know how much did Day’s drug use contributed to the friction between Prince and Day and Prince and The Time. Do we know that Day’s drug use affected this music or the performance of the music? And while it is probable that Day’s drug use caused him to leave The Time, there seems to be enough information to make it probable that Prince’s dictatorial ways also caused him to leave The Time.

*

Mulefunk said: if Jam and Lewis loved the other guys so much why didn't they write/create a new persona for the group before now?

*

Do we know how much legal control and power Prince had in his ability to keep The Time from reuniting on their own? What is true is that Jam and Lewis continued to use members of The Time for various projects, making their work with Day on “Fishnet” basically a Time project. And has both Jam and Lewis have said, why create something else when they loved the band that they had. It seems that for them the goal and struggle was to do more Time projects, and after so long they just decided to accept the limitations of not being able to use the name and move forward.

*

Mulefunk said: if Prince is Satan Jr. why did they work with him on the hideous Graffiti Bridge/Pandemonium projects?

*

The most obvious reason is money. Two, I think that the members of The Time love being in The Time because of their love for each other and their love for music, despite their issues with Prince. Three, Pandemonium is not a hideous project. In fact, it cooks just as well as the first three Time records and may be more musically sophisticated. And four, lots of people work for terrible bosses. I would bet that most people don’t have favorable relationships with their bosses for various reasons, and I believe that despite having had favorable relationships with most of my bosses. People have all types of reasons for staying at a job with a terrible boss. And when one is in entertainment, the combination of lacking employment security and a love for what one does tends to cause one to remain with a gig, even if there are some serious negatives.

*

HonestMan13 said: If life with Prince was such a living hell then why did Jerome Benton hang around to do another movie, be on the Purple Rain tour, join the Family and subsequently join the Revolution. Jellybean at least said he stayed because he had mouths to feed.

*

For the most part, this is similar to one of Mulefunk’s questions, but helps me make a point. What exactly is Benton’s talent or skill? Where else was he going to find employment or make money doing what he did for The Time and later for Prince? I’m not saying that he is not great at it; he is the reason for Farnsworth Bentley. However, just like Jellybean, Benton needed the money, and he was willing to stomach Prince because it was, after all, living the dream of being an entertainer. Additionally, I never said Prince was Satan, just seemingly egotistical, insecure, and selfish. Even the worst bosses can offer moments when the work can be pleasing, especially if the boss is good at what he does and the employee likes the profession or career.

*

asq said: But if you think about it, Prince wrote, produced and played on practically all of the first four Time albums. He really is the original and most important member of the time even though he is behind the scenes... So for those guys to say OK we're gonna get together and do something of our own without your involvement, I guess I can understand his reasoning for keeping the name.

*

I don’t dispute any of what you are saying. And legally, he probably has the right to do whatever he is doing in this matter. But, it still seems a bit hypocritical for a man to travel the country asserting that he doesn’t do contracts or that he doesn’t like to build relationships on contracts and that he is the victim of Warner Bros., and he then does the same. Secondly, if I understand correctly, the deal was “Party Up” for a band. Do we know if Day has said, “Hey man, I don’t want you singing “Party Up” anymore? Was the trade for ownership? I’ll give you a band if you give me that song? So, shouldn’t either Day or the members of The Time have the same rights and ownership to the name and use of The Time as Prince has to “Party Up”? And, of course, I cannot ignore the legality that Warner Bros actually owns “Party Up,” but my point is that Day has never, to my knowledge, returned and said, “I would like to control or limit how you use my song.” Whether one thinks that Day or Prince got the best of the deal, a deal is a deal; an agreement is an agreement. I’ll give you a band if you give me a song, emphasis on “give.” So, if he gave Day a band, and he wants to present himself as a morally or spiritually enlightened person, allowing them to use their name is the morally right thing to do even if he legally has the right to do something else. (And even more ironic or hypocritical is that Prince seems to be determined to do to The Time what Rick James attempted to do to him. If someone mistreats me, I would think that the enlightened thing to do would be to make sure that I do not pass that negativity to anyone else.) Yes, Prince wrote those songs, but Day and the other members gave life to those songs. Does anyone other than Ike think that Tina Turner should not be able to perform songs from The Ike and Tina Revue? Should Aretha Franklin not perform certain songs that she did not write? How about Luther Vandross? What about Elvis Presley who became the King of Rock-n-Roll having never written a single song in his life? And, yes, there is a slight difference in these situations than Prince and The Time, but coupling my third reason with my second reason causes Prince to seem a bit shady to me—legally right, but still shady.

*

Again, I’m not off the Prince bandwagon. I still love him as an artist, including his current output. (By the way, I like both versions of “Extralovable.”) However, it is disappointing, if not sad, that at this juncture of life and career, Prince couldn’t just say, “Look, I’m not interested in a new Time Project, at least not how you guys want to do it, but, since this is as much you all’s legacy as mine, do with it what you will—just keep it funky.” And while I think Condensate lacks the musical fullness of the other Time records, especially in its lacking use of keyboards to fill the sound, causing most of the tracks to seem or feel a bit sparse, it is a good or solid effort with some real gems.

^ Who is being interviewed here?

rdhull said:

and to think..if he never was this so called asshole...this band/dvd would have never even existed

.

[Edited 12/7/11 21:46pm]

Prince would've been a bitter motherfucker if he prevented that. He sure as hell didn't prevent the release of "Gaslight". I guess people love this image of Prince as a benevolent dictator with a Napoleon complex.

[Edited 12/8/11 9:51am]

1725topp said:

A lot of interesting comments and questions:

*

Mulefunk said: why did Morris Day get hooked on cocaine and break up/leave the Time?

*

I would only assert that the firing of Jam and Lewis was as much a blow to The Time as Day’s drug use. Of course, we would have to know how much did Day’s drug use contributed to the friction between Prince and Day and Prince and The Time. Do we know that Day’s drug use affected this music or the performance of the music? And while it is probable that Day’s drug use caused him to leave The Time, there seems to be enough information to make it probable that Prince’s dictatorial ways also caused him to leave The Time.

*

Mulefunk said: if Jam and Lewis loved the other guys so much why didn't they write/create a new persona for the group before now?

*

Do we know how much legal control and power Prince had in his ability to keep The Time from reuniting on their own? What is true is that Jam and Lewis continued to use members of The Time for various projects, making their work with Day on “Fishnet” basically a Time project. And has both Jam and Lewis have said, why create something else when they loved the band that they had. It seems that for them the goal and struggle was to do more Time projects, and after so long they just decided to accept the limitations of not being able to use the name and move forward.

*

Mulefunk said: if Prince is Satan Jr. why did they work with him on the hideous Graffiti Bridge/Pandemonium projects?

*

The most obvious reason is money. Two, I think that the members of The Time love being in The Time because of their love for each other and their love for music, despite their issues with Prince. Three, Pandemonium is not a hideous project. In fact, it cooks just as well as the first three Time records and may be more musically sophisticated. And four, lots of people work for terrible bosses. I would bet that most people don’t have favorable relationships with their bosses for various reasons, and I believe that despite having had favorable relationships with most of my bosses. People have all types of reasons for staying at a job with a terrible boss. And when one is in entertainment, the combination of lacking employment security and a love for what one does tends to cause one to remain with a gig, even if there are some serious negatives.

*

HonestMan13 said: If life with Prince was such a living hell then why did Jerome Benton hang around to do another movie, be on the Purple Rain tour, join the Family and subsequently join the Revolution. Jellybean at least said he stayed because he had mouths to feed.

*

For the most part, this is similar to one of Mulefunk’s questions, but helps me make a point. What exactly is Benton’s talent or skill? Where else was he going to find employment or make money doing what he did for The Time and later for Prince? I’m not saying that he is not great at it; he is the reason for Farnsworth Bentley. However, just like Jellybean, Benton needed the money, and he was willing to stomach Prince because it was, after all, living the dream of being an entertainer. Additionally, I never said Prince was Satan, just seemingly egotistical, insecure, and selfish. Even the worst bosses can offer moments when the work can be pleasing, especially if the boss is good at what he does and the employee likes the profession or career.

*

asq said: But if you think about it, Prince wrote, produced and played on practically all of the first four Time albums. He really is the original and most important member of the time even though he is behind the scenes... So for those guys to say OK we're gonna get together and do something of our own without your involvement, I guess I can understand his reasoning for keeping the name.

*

I don’t dispute any of what you are saying. And legally, he probably has the right to do whatever he is doing in this matter. But, it still seems a bit hypocritical for a man to travel the country asserting that he doesn’t do contracts or that he doesn’t like to build relationships on contracts and that he is the victim of Warner Bros., and he then does the same. Secondly, if I understand correctly, the deal was “Party Up” for a band. Do we know if Day has said, “Hey man, I don’t want you singing “Party Up” anymore? Was the trade for ownership? I’ll give you a band if you give me that song? So, shouldn’t either Day or the members of The Time have the same rights and ownership to the name and use of The Time as Prince has to “Party Up”? And, of course, I cannot ignore the legality that Warner Bros actually owns “Party Up,” but my point is that Day has never, to my knowledge, returned and said, “I would like to control or limit how you use my song.” Whether one thinks that Day or Prince got the best of the deal, a deal is a deal; an agreement is an agreement. I’ll give you a band if you give me a song, emphasis on “give.” So, if he gave Day a band, and he wants to present himself as a morally or spiritually enlightened person, allowing them to use their name is the morally right thing to do even if he legally has the right to do something else. (And even more ironic or hypocritical is that Prince seems to be determined to do to The Time what Rick James attempted to do to him. If someone mistreats me, I would think that the enlightened thing to do would be to make sure that I do not pass that negativity to anyone else.) Yes, Prince wrote those songs, but Day and the other members gave life to those songs. Does anyone other than Ike think that Tina Turner should not be able to perform songs from The Ike and Tina Revue? Should Aretha Franklin not perform certain songs that she did not write? How about Luther Vandross? What about Elvis Presley who became the King of Rock-n-Roll having never written a single song in his life? And, yes, there is a slight difference in these situations than Prince and The Time, but coupling my third reason with my second reason causes Prince to seem a bit shady to me—legally right, but still shady.

*

Again, I’m not off the Prince bandwagon. I still love him as an artist, including his current output. (By the way, I like both versions of “Extralovable.”) However, it is disappointing, if not sad, that at this juncture of life and career, Prince couldn’t just say, “Look, I’m not interested in a new Time Project, at least not how you guys want to do it, but, since this is as much you all’s legacy as mine, do with it what you will—just keep it funky.” And while I think Condensate lacks the musical fullness of the other Time records, especially in its lacking use of keyboards to fill the sound, causing most of the tracks to seem or feel a bit sparse, it is a good or solid effort with some real gems.

Go 1725topp: That's what I'm talking about. Have an answer for all these orgers who think they got an answer to everything and want hit you with the hardball questions? Intelligent answers.

Timmy84 said:

rdhull said:

and to think..if he never was this so called asshole...this band/dvd would have never even existed

.

[Edited 12/7/11 21:46pm]

Prince would've been a bitter motherfucker if he prevented that. He sure as hell didn't prevent the release of "Gaslight". I guess people love this image of Prince as a benevolent dictator with a Napoleon complex.

[Edited 12/8/11 9:51am]

Im talking about Prince the supposed asshole actually gave these dudes a career. If he was such the asshole completely..completely..they wouldnt have been a band, and hence, no dvd of this discussion.

rdhull said:

Timmy84 said:

Prince would've been a bitter motherfucker if he prevented that. He sure as hell didn't prevent the release of "Gaslight". I guess people love this image of Prince as a benevolent dictator with a Napoleon complex.

[Edited 12/8/11 9:51am]

Im talking about Prince the supposed asshole actually gave these dudes a career. If he was such the asshole completely..completely..they wouldnt have been a band, and hence, no dvd of this discussion.

That's real true!

rdhull said:

Im talking about Prince the supposed asshole actually gave these dudes a career. If he was such the asshole completely..completely..they wouldnt have been a band, and hence, no dvd of this discussion.

Yes, but did Prince give them a career due to the goodness of his heart, or was he, one, repaying a debt? Does this happen without Day's song?

*

Two, it seems that Prince was crafting a band to be his alter ego that could keep the attention of black (urban) radio while he explored other aesthetics. However, the problem is that Prince also seems to want the members of The Time, the real people, to behave like inanimate objects--to be shelved until he is ready to use them. That's not a logical way of understanding what he was creating, especially since part of the reason for his creation was to pay a debt. Yes, the members of The Time benefited from Prince's genius. But, his vision also benefited from their talent. They are not Vanity or Apollonia or any of the other no-talented cardboard acts. They are real musicians that contributed greatly to the legend of The Time with their excellent performance abilities and later songwriting ability.

*

Finally, just because we say that someone acted like an asshole on a particular occasion is not saying that he is perpetually an asshole. I am just saying that in this case, based on the information we have, Prince mistreated The Time and seems to be still doing so. Just because he gave them a break or an opportunity is no excuse or justification for him to mistreat them. That's like saying because I loan someone five dollars I have the right to kick them in the behind. However, in this case, it was not a loan; it was a repayment of debt. So, he wasn't being so gracious or benevolent.