Timmy84 said:

2elijah said:

I'm not surprised to be honest...

Why's that?

bigd74 said:

Timmy84 said:

I'm not surprised to be honest...

Why's that?

Because Jesse seemed to be on his own world. He seemed like he had mixed feelings of a reunion with the Time.

Timmy84 said:

bigd74 said:

Why's that?

Because Jesse seemed to be on his own world. He seemed like he had mixed feelings of a reunion with the Time.

Guess we will have to wait and see what the rest of the group will have to say about this.

prodigalfan said:

Think of Atlantic Star, Midnight Star, Zapp, Confunshun, Cameo to name a few. They all played good funk music... but none of them had the personality and connection with the audience like the Time did.

I disagree. I've witnessed shows by Cameo and Zapp and there was major personality and connection with the audience.

Midnight Star's documented live show from 1983 shows these elements as well to a high degree. It was all about participation.

Shango said:

prodigalfan said:

Think of Atlantic Star, Midnight Star, Zapp, Confunshun, Cameo to name a few. They all played good funk music... but none of them had the personality and connection with the audience like the Time did.

I disagree. I've witnessed shows by Cameo and Zapp and there was major personality and connection with the audience.

Midnight Star's documented live show from 1983 shows these elements as well to a high degree. It was all about participation.

Yeah I saw footage of Zapp & Roger and the way they had the audience in it was amazing. Roger of course was real animated so that made it special. I still remember their BET special when they performed back in '89. I knew it was gonna be a great show when Roger (in his normal voice) asked:

"Can I get crazy this evening?!"

2elijah said:

Timmy84 said:

Because Jesse seemed to be on his own world. He seemed like he had mixed feelings of a reunion with the Time.

Guess we will have to wait and see what the rest of the group will have to say about this.

I am done with Jesse.

babynoz said:

2elijah said:

Guess we will have to wait and see what the rest of the group will have to say about this.

I am done with Jesse.

He is partially the reason the Time ceased to exist after 1984 (along with Morris), that's why Prince retired that project for The Family lol

babynoz said:

2elijah said:

Guess we will have to wait and see what the rest of the group will have to say about this.

I am done with Jesse.

I guess it's good he likes to be alone then.

HonestMan13 said:

babynoz said:

I am done with Jesse.

I guess it's good he likes to be alone then.

Yep, and he 'bout to get his wish...

babynoz said:

2elijah said:

Guess we will have to wait and see what the rest of the group will have to say about this.

I am done with Jesse.

It is a shame he had to do this before the O7 had a chance to really promote their new music. Now I guess either they will go through another name change or hire a different guitar player and just keep the name. It's way too soon to change it right after their new albue came out. Seems what was displayed in the DVD didn't expose if there was any tension between the original 7 members. From what I saw on their special on cable this past weekend, it didn't seem to reveal there was any current tension going on with the members of the group.

Their interview gave the impression they were all on the same page with each another, regarding accepting the new name, future performances, moving on, and to think many fans were so busy focusing on the name change situation and wondering how the Time member's former boss dealt with it , while not noticing or realizing that there was tension in the band, with Jesse not seeing 'eye to eye' with all the OG7 band members. Guess some of us have been bamboozled.

[Edited 12/15/11 17:17pm]

^ I wasn't fooled lol if the Time was really that close, they wouldn't have suddenly broken up after 1984... with friends like that, who needs enemies?

2elijah said:

babynoz said:

I am done with Jesse.

It is a shame he had to do this before the O7 had a chance to really promote their new music. Now I guess either they will go through another name change or hire a different guitar player and just keep the name. It's way too soon to change it right after their new albue came out. Seems what was displayed in the DVD didn't expose if there was any tension between the original 7 members. From what I saw on their special on cable this past weekend, it didn't seem to reveal there was any current tension going on with the members of the group.

Their interview gave the impression they were all on the same page with each another, regarding accepting the new name, future performances, moving on, and to think many fans were so busy focusing on the name change situation and wondering how the Time member's former boss dealt with it , while not noticing or realizing that there was tension in the band, with Jesse not seeing 'eye to eye' with all the OG7 band members. Guess some of us have been bamboozled.

[Edited 12/15/11 17:17pm]

Girl, Imma hush before I say something really ugly about JJ... Wtf?

babynoz said:

2elijah said:

It is a shame he had to do this before the O7 had a chance to really promote their new music. Now I guess either they will go through another name change or hire a different guitar player and just keep the name. It's way too soon to change it right after their new albue came out. Seems what was displayed in the DVD didn't expose if there was any tension between the original 7 members. From what I saw on their special on cable this past weekend, it didn't seem to reveal there was any current tension going on with the members of the group.

Their interview gave the impression they were all on the same page with each another, regarding accepting the new name, future performances, moving on, and to think many fans were so busy focusing on the name change situation and wondering how the Time member's former boss dealt with it , while not noticing or realizing that there was tension in the band, with Jesse not seeing 'eye to eye' with all the OG7 band members. Guess some of us have been bamboozled.

[Edited 12/15/11 17:17pm]

Girl, Imma hush before I say something really ugly about JJ... Wtf?

Might as well. Ain't like Jesse's got people who would try to chew you out or anything.

Timmy84 said:

babynoz said:

Girl, Imma hush before I say something really ugly about JJ... Wtf?

Might as well. Ain't like Jesse's got people who would try to chew you out or anything.

If you only knew how pissed I am right now bro!

babynoz said:

Timmy84 said:

Might as well. Ain't like Jesse's got people who would try to chew you out or anything.

If you only knew how pissed I am right now bro!

I feel ya...

Timmy84 said:

^ I wasn't fooled lol if the Time was really that close, they wouldn't have suddenly broken up after 1984... with friends like that, who needs enemies?

I said that all along. Yeah they were bandmates and yeah they got love for each other. Loving someone doesn't mean you like them! It seemed easier for the masses to believe that Prince kept them apart for 2 decades but they were exactly fighting to be together themselves. Whatever problems they have were obviously too much for Jesse to remain with the group. I hope he's happier with whatever path he chooses to go on. His talent speaks for itself.

2elijah said:

prodigalfan said:

Oops...not so fast. You may want to hold that thought, and see this thread link below. Looks like Jesse may be walking away from the group. So there may be trouble among the fellas in the group after all. We will have to see how this will affect the rest of the members.

http://prince.org/msg/5/372640

Orger Steve Anthony just posted this in the Assoc Artist's section:

"Jesse Johnson leaving the O7

Just posted on his Facebook:"

"I don't really think I'll be performing with the Original any more! We simple don't see eye to eye on anything. Love the guys, but I feel in my heart it's "Time" to walk away while we're all still friends. Peace be with you all and them all. PeaceLove Jesse Johnson"

[Edited 12/15/11 10:10am]

^^

Where is that Florida Evans "damn, damn, damn" clip??

HonestMan13 said:

Timmy84 said:

^ I wasn't fooled lol if the Time was really that close, they wouldn't have suddenly broken up after 1984... with friends like that, who needs enemies?

I said that all along. Yeah they were bandmates and yeah they got love for each other. Loving someone doesn't mean you like them! It seemed easier for the masses to believe that Prince kept them apart for 2 decades but they were exactly fighting to be together themselves. Whatever problems they have were obviously too much for Jesse to remain with the group. I hope he's happier with whatever path he chooses to go on. His talent speaks for itself.

lol I never believed Prince separated them. That was their own fault.

Jesse always seemed like he was depressed in these recent media junkets (and 07 dvd).

prodigalfan said:

2elijah said:

^^

Where is that Florida Evans "damn, damn, damn" clip??

Girl, you right on time...that's just what I need right now!

Timmy84 said:

HonestMan13 said:

I said that all along. Yeah they were bandmates and yeah they got love for each other. Loving someone doesn't mean you like them! It seemed easier for the masses to believe that Prince kept them apart for 2 decades but they were exactly fighting to be together themselves. Whatever problems they have were obviously too much for Jesse to remain with the group. I hope he's happier with whatever path he chooses to go on. His talent speaks for itself.

lol I never believed Prince separated them. That was their own fault.

Yes, but this thread wasn't started to diss or blame Prince about keeping them apart; it was a reaction to some of the things Prince had done to them as well as the inability of them not being able to use their name. Regardless of whatever issues or friction developed over time, as it does with all groups since very few groups remain together after ten, twenty, or thirty years, the original point of this thread was to express sadness at how they were treated on tour and surprise and sadness that they could not use their name. Do we really need to list the names of groups that had love for each other, but time, growth, changes, and other issues made difficult for them to remain a group or band? It could be that Jesse has completely outgrown the band or the concept and only decided to do it because they are his friends, but he also realizes that sometimes one can't be in business with one's friends. Whatever the reason for Jesse's decision, I’m glad they made another record, I'm grateful for their history, and, while I still love Prince's older and current work, it is still sad that a better compromise could not be made between Prince and The Time for the use of their name.

I can't see how they can still call themselves The Original Sevenven now that they're not.

1725topp said:

Timmy84 said:

lol I never believed Prince separated them. That was their own fault.

Yes, but this thread wasn't started to diss or blame Prince about keeping them apart; it was a reaction to some of the things Prince had done to them as well as the inability of them not being able to use their name. Regardless of whatever issues or friction developed over time, as it does with all groups since very few groups remain together after ten, twenty, or thirty years, the original point of this thread was to express sadness at how they were treated on tour and surprise and sadness that they could not use their name. Do we really need to list the names of groups that had love for each other, but time, growth, changes, and other issues made difficult for them to remain a group or band? It could be that Jesse has completely outgrown the band or the concept and only decided to do it because they are his friends, but he also realizes that sometimes one can't be in business with one's friends. Whatever the reason for Jesse's decision, I’m glad they made another record, I'm grateful for their history, and, while I still love Prince's older and current work, it is still sad that a better compromise could not be made between Prince and The Time for the use of their name.

You're still saying Prince is to blame for some of the mess that went down though... he's not an angel, but I think it comes down to some form of principle. I mean if he prevented these guys from really showing off then why couldn't they unite, break away from Prince, and prove it? Nah, those guys had ego problems too (mainly Morris, Jesse, and probably Jimmy & Terry). Blame it on a reaction but that's still putting some blame on Prince's decision making on how they dissipated. They went through all that, all the legal hassles, and then one member just pussied out? If he was so uncertain about everything, he could've told the guys before they released the album, "look man we can't do this, we ain't even touring, Prince won't let us use our name, come on man, we're looking like fools." But nah he agreed to it. It wasn't like the group members had guns over their heads. It was their decision. Now it's a decision the other members would probably live to regret because one guy decided he "didn't need them anymore". It's like saying Berry Gordy forced the Supremes or the Temptations or Martha and the Vandellas to break up and that wasn't the case either as it was with Prince. I mean, I understand where you're going with this, but I think it's all wrong to me.

i kinda feel bad for the other 6, do they carry on? what now, or will they dissappear and Morris will carry on as Morris Day And The Time with his other band.

bigd74 said:

i kinda feel bad for the other 6, do they carry on? what now, or will they dissappear and Morris will carry on as Morris Day And The Time with his other band.

I'm guessing if the Time didn't really have no schedule to do a 2012 tour, then Morris would carry on with his band and Jimmy & Terry would go back to producing. Just my scenario.

Just seems like it was a waste of time really, and a wasted opportunity to make alot of fans happy, i wondfer if any Condensate tracks will make it into Morris's set, does he do any solo stuff? or is it just old school Time stuff.

bigd74 said:

Just seems like it was a waste of time really, and a wasted opportunity to make alot of fans happy, i wondfer if any Condensate tracks will make it into Morris's set, does he do any solo stuff? or is it just old school Time stuff.

I'm thinking old school Time/solo.

babynoz said:

prodigalfan said:

^^

Where is that Florida Evans "damn, damn, damn" clip??

Girl, you right on time...that's just what I need right now!

OMG you done made my day.

Timmy84 said:

You're still saying Prince is to blame for some of the mess that went down though... he's not an angel, but I think it comes down to some form of principle. I mean if he prevented these guys from really showing off then why couldn't they unite, break away from Prince, and prove it? Nah, those guys had ego problems too (mainly Morris, Jesse, and probably Jimmy & Terry). Blame it on a reaction but that's still putting some blame on Prince's decision making on how they dissipated. They went through all that, all the legal hassles, and then one member just pussied out? If he was so uncertain about everything, he could've told the guys before they released the album, "look man we can't do this, we ain't even touring, Prince won't let us use our name, come on man, we're looking like fools." But nah he agreed to it. It wasn't like the group members had guns over their heads. It was their decision. Now it's a decision the other members would probably live to regret because one guy decided he "didn't need them anymore". It's like saying Berry Gordy forced the Supremes or the Temptations or Martha and the Vandellas to break up and that wasn't the case either as it was with Prince. I mean, I understand where you're going with this, but I think it's all wrong to me.

Again, we are agreeing to disagree, because I can't see how he isn't to blame for "some" of the chaos and dysfunction that has plagued The Time. I'm not saying that he is the entire blame, but just from the standpoint that Jam and Lewis had accepted that they would never write and produce for the time, which they said, and did not mind that, but then they are told they can't write and produce for other acts. Now, where contracts are involved, that may be legal, but it is certainly not moral. That's like me telling my wife, who is an excellent cook and who loves to cook, look I'm going to prepare all the meals, and I don't want you to cook at all—inside or outside the house. And before that, he was removing them from certain shows. Is it really that difficult to see how those two acts, alone, would create chaos and dysfunction, causing seven different dudes to react seven different ways. Now, those that reacted in a dysfunctional or unconstructive manner, that is, of course, on them, but you can't shake a wasp nest and be surprised that all hell breaks out.

*

As for Jesse, specifically, remember that not everyone immediately agreed to perform for the Grammy show; I'm willing to bet that Jesse was one of them. In the documentary, Jesse alludes to the ongoing love-hate issues with him and Terry. As far back as 1990, during the BET interview, Jesse states that there were fights, to which the rest of the band, namely Lewis, reigns him in with humor, "Boy, is yo' head hot." And before that in 1987 or 88 maybe, Jesse is on BET discussing the issues with Prince and how it forced them to all do something on their own. So, as with any band, there is a love-hate relationship, which is common for creative people. And, to a large degree, Prince's actions, mishandling of the band, in my opinion, which that and a dollar will get you something off McDonald's value menu, did enhance the dysfunction of the band. So, to say that Jesse "pussied out," makes me wonder if you have had friendships long enough to understand the complications of any friendship. And, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or mean spirited. Maybe it's because as an artist I've had long and complex relationships with other artists from all fields. It is completely plausible to me that Jesse was perplexed about the whole project: I love them, but I really don't love the idea of being in The Time. I'd bet it was a fifty-fifty decision for him that he decided to do just because of the friendship, but later realized or experienced older, negative emotions that said for him, sorry, but I can't do this anymore. I don't see how that's "pussying out." Again, I don't have all the facts, but I do understand and give credence to the difficulty of sustaining loving but highly competitive relationships between creative people. And to say that he should have just said no from the beginning is to minimize his history with them and his love for them.

*

And, finally, the Berry Gordy analogy is flawed because he did break up the Supremes because he wanted Ross as a solo act because he felt she had crossover appeal. However, with the Temptations, he did everything he could to help them until he felt that they were no longer marketable, allowing them to pursue other record companies. So, I don't see the connection. Prince did have control over the name and their collective careers as a unit. He decided what they recorded and when they performed. And while he was certainly talented enough to decide both, I cannot understand how one can perceive it as right/honest/moral of Prince to keep them from developing their talents elsewhere as well as removing them from concerts when they were just hitting their stride. So, yes, I do see that for all his genius, Prince did, ultimately, mishandle them. But, like with singles from his own albums, we can debate what should be a single, but Prince ultimately has the right to choose the single, and he seems at peace with how his career has gone just as he seems at peace with how he handled/managed The Time. But, even though he seems at peace, it still does not refute the negative things that he did that seemed to limit their careers as a band if not as individuals. Now we can disagree as to whether or not they had the talent, focus, and drive to do much more. And to use Condensate as an example would be flawed because while I like it, it is created by very talented men pass their prime and era of music. The fact is that we don't know what they could have been if after What Time Is It? they would have been given equal share of the creation of the albums or if Jam and Lewis and others would have been allowed to express themselves outside The Time and remain a part of The Time. Again, this is all speculation, but we can question what would happen if it is the Original 7 that is on Ice Cream Castles and in the film? It is easy to say, "what did they do after they broke up?" for which the answer is pretty good, by the way. But, we can't ignore that Prince played a part in the dysfunction if not the demise of the band. And, while we know it is usually a waste of time to play the "what if" game when dealing with reality, such as counting championships that were never won, but there are several teams for which many people blame management for dismantling too soon when many felt the team had one or two championship runs in them. I don’t know how much success The Time, as an original unit, had within them by 1983, but it is clear to me that Prince had a hand in ensuring that we will never know. And for him to have known them and had been their friend, supposedly, that is sad.

Timmy84 said:

bigd74 said:

Just seems like it was a waste of time really, and a wasted opportunity to make alot of fans happy, i wondfer if any Condensate tracks will make it into Morris's set, does he do any solo stuff? or is it just old school Time stuff.

I'm thinking old school Time/solo.

Well, I think if Jesse wasn't happy with rejoining them in the first place, he should have let them know that before the album was released or let them know it was temporary for him because he had other desires with his music and still wanted to move on.. This way they would have had time to figure out what name they wanted to use for the band. With this recent situation there's no one to blame for Jesse's action but himself.