Wasn't that unique lol he's great don't get me wrong but I think no R&B artist was as in tune with the "pimp" style like Barry White himself. He was onstage wearing chinchilla onstage and his hair was one of the perfect long hair manes on a brother in forever. Morris just brought a Kid Creole influence into his style.

SoulAlive said:

prodigalfan said:

okay, I know Prince wrote and performed the music. But was it a collaborative effort between Prince and the band as far as the presentation and persona of the live BAND.

Like the suits, the way they dance... which was much different than the dancing Prince did in his own performances. What about Morris's persona as an old school pimp/gigolo. What about Jerome and the mirror because Morris is so cool (and vain).

Were these ALL Prince's ideas? With all this interaction with the band and rehearsals for the shows... were these Prince's SOLO ideas created in a vacuum??

I'm curious... because seriously, these things that I have mentioned was all part of the Time's appeal to people. It wasn't just the music. There were so many funk bands during that time.

But the Time was unique... most black bands who played funk did not dress like that... they didn't dance at all, or if they did, they did the throw back dancing you saw from the Comodores etc.

Think of Atlantic Star, Midnight Star, Zapp, Confunshun, Cameo to name a few. They all played good funk music... but none of them had the personality and connection with the audience like the Time did.

I've said this before: Prince may have wrote and produced the songs,it was the Time members themselves who brought this concept to life.Prince would not have been able to do this project with just any group of musicians.Morris' pimp persona is one of a kind.These guys deserve alot more credit for what they brought to the table.

Morris' pimp persona is a Prince creation.

prodigalfan said:

^ great post and I pretty much agree to it. I will say that Morris's persona is unique from Marvin and jackie because Jose fellas came off as smooth Mr right. Morris was a player and celebrated the players and the game. And that appealed to young men trying to be cool players themselves.

Well, I can't say it is that unique because that 'player/pimp' image was around for a while. M.Day just portrayed it at a time that others weren't doing it, and made it a character of himself on stage, but it was not a persona new to the industry. He played that persona into the songs Prince wrote, at the time. Now today, he's taking that same persona that he developed and enhanced over time, including while working with Prince, of course, made it his own, and now projecting it under the group's new name. When you look at it, the band like I said, is still technically 'The Time', under a new name, and it's plain to see that's the persona Morris and the guys want to keep. Prodigal, somehow I knew you'd dragged me right back into this conversation. You have to remember the blaxploitation movies that played into that 'pimp/gigolo' image. i.e. 'Superfly', 'The Mack' etc., with the big hats, suits, sometimes a cape, Stacey Adams type shoes, having many women, sporting a cool and suave swagger, presenting a sexual image, etc. So no, Morris' 'pimp/gigolo' image is not 'unique'. He may have celebrated the players and the game, with that persona, but the image is not 'unique' to Morris.

[Edited 12/12/11 13:23pm]

Timmy84 said:

Wasn't that unique lol he's great don't get me wrong but I think no R&B artist was as in tune with the "pimp" style like Barry White himself. He was onstage wearing chinchilla onstage and his hair was one of the perfect long hair manes on a brother in forever. Morris just brought a Kid Creole influence into his style.

Good observation, as I agree Morris had a lot of early 'pimp/gigolo' style artists to compete with, so I do agree that he did bring sort of a Kid Creole to it, but somehow that makes me think of Cab Calloway and his zoot-styled suits, 'pimp/gigolo' persona... so all mentioned had nothing on Cab's slick styled-suits, hats, stage persona and cool swagger, as he smoothly danced and glided across the floor with his 'coolness, and he sure didn't have a problem slicking that hair back.

Let me show you what I mean....check him out at mark 3:39 on

[Edited 12/12/11 13:32pm]

2elijah said:

Timmy84 said:

Wasn't that unique lol he's great don't get me wrong but I think no R&B artist was as in tune with the "pimp" style like Barry White himself. He was onstage wearing chinchilla onstage and his hair was one of the perfect long hair manes on a brother in forever. Morris just brought a Kid Creole influence into his style.

Good observation, as I agree Morris had a lot of early 'pimp/gigolo' style artists to compete with, so I do agree that he did bring sort of a Kid Creole to it, but somehow that makes me think of Cab Calloway and his zoot-styled suits, 'pimp/gigolo' persona... so all mentioned had nothing on Cab's slick styled-suits, hats, stage persona and cool swagger, as he smoothly danced and glided across the floor with his 'coolness, and he sure didn't have a problem slicking that hair back.

Let me show you what I mean....check him out at mark 3:39 on

[Edited 12/12/11 13:32pm]

You know what? You're right. Both Kid Creole and Morris took bits from Cab Calloway! Plus they all looked alike! Why did I forget Cab? Silly me.

After watching the O7 DVD, I got the same impression I always did - that Prince, personally, shot himself in the foot when he fired J&L. The seeds of dissent were already in the band what with poor pay and them being a capable band of great players rather than just miming puppets. But you get a sense of how the Time was it's own unit, which at it's core existed before Prince, way back, so when you shit on two of the core members like that - it's going to leave a bad taste, or an even worse taste, in everybody else's mouth. The writing was definately on the wall after that.

Now Prince was already on this blue print to stardom at this point since PR was in the works, or thought of at the very least, and a record label/more produced acts would be on the cards - having J&L on that label, being Prince's 'B team' for a few years before they struck out on their own would've really given PP Records a shot in the arm. The other guys in the Time got production credits through J&L because of their heavy workload and them wanting to share the goodies, which I think is the right attitude for a growing production house. You find this in other production teams, where they have other engineers/musicians around them, and as the project grows - those people doing the day in day out drudgery of studio work will get to work on stuff, more and more as time goes by - till they're a team within a team themselves. That's apprenticeship.

Obv. it's all 'Prince fantasy football'. J&L would've really not had much impact on Prince's career that had it's trajectory and I'm not talking about that - what I mean is having more people around from the old days once the fame hit the fan, and being a little more open to others peoples ideas and input from a little earlier on might've lead to a softening of the heart on all kinds of other matters. Paisley Park Records might've actually been something, rather than just a vanity label and curiosity shop for the hardcore.

And who knows - being tucked under Prince's wing would've probably still lead to shit down the road - probably would have - If he didn't like them giving him competition in the big cities as an mere opening act, how about when J&L started having #1 hits of their own, even if they were produced through his label/studio/executive production? Prince is just that fragile of an ego to smash it all so he's the only one left standing. Maybe? Probably!

You can tell the guys in the Time still have a ton of respect for Prince as a musical force, but you can't do that kind of thing to people without it having adverse effects - even meager talents like in most manufactured bands will want to strike out for more autonomy and input once they reach a level of success. How much more frustrating must it be to be in that situation AND be a great player/aspiring producer yourself?

It's interesting that maybe Prince pushes people out of the nest early to see if they can fly or splat - not to get too Freudian, but I think you know what connections can be seen there.

2elijah said:

Yes, Timmy so did I. If you also look at that vid again starting at mark 2.22, I just noticed how the guy brushing off Cab's suit and handing him his hat reminds me of what Jerome does for Morris on stage with holding the mirror for Morris. You can see in this other vid where the similarities are and where Morris and especially Kid Creole borrowed their swagger from. Even Prince had that slight, zoot suit Cab Callloway look/swagger, during a portion of the 90s. Remember the yellow suit he wore on stage at a show, and his hair was slick back like a young Cab Calloway? Even Larry Graham wears suits similar to Cab Calloway, but not in a pimp/gigolo way, but more in a clean cut syle with his own type of cool swagger. [Edited 12/13/11 9:27am]

Sure did.

NouveauDance said:

Now Prince was already on this blue print to stardom at this point since PR was in the works, or thought of at the very least, and a record label/more produced acts would be on the cards - having J&L on that label, being Prince's 'B team' for a few years before they struck out on their own would've really given PP Records a shot in the arm. The other guys in the Time got production credits through J&L because of their heavy workload and them wanting to share the goodies, which I think is the right attitude for a growing production house. You find this in other production teams, where they have other engineers/musicians around them, and as the project grows - those people doing the day in day out drudgery of studio work will get to work on stuff, more and more as time goes by - till they're a team within a team themselves. That's apprenticeship.

Obv. it's all 'Prince fantasy football'. J&L would've really not had much impact on Prince's career that had it's trajectory and I'm not talking about that - what I mean is having more people around from the old days once the fame hit the fan, and being a little more open to others peoples ideas and input from a little earlier on might've lead to a softening of the heart on all kinds of other matters. Paisley Park Records might've actually been something, rather than just a vanity label and curiosity shop for the hardcore.

I agree with most of what you say, especially if we understand it all as "Prince fantasy football," which is an excellent analogy even though I still hate the idea of fantasy football. But, what is most interesting to me is the notion of J&L working at Paisley Park. Again, fantasy football, but wow, the thought along gives me shivers to think that PP could have been a real record label with them. But, I also agree that there still would have been a probability of Prince tripping about them gettin' too much props for the success of the label. So, even though this is a "what if" or a "what could have been," the notion that J&L could have had all that success at PP creates even more wonder and notions about "missed opportunities" and Prince's ability to fulfill his desire of truly being a self-contained and sovereign institution within the recording industry. Okay, I'll stop dreaming now and return to life as is, which is not so bad, but it does make me sad for another example of human beings, myself included, being unable to reach our potential because of ego and selfishness.

Timmy84 said:

Wasn't that unique lol he's great don't get me wrong but I think no R&B artist was as in tune with the "pimp" style like Barry White himself. He was onstage wearing chinchilla onstage and his hair was one of the perfect long hair manes on a brother in forever. Morris just brought a Kid Creole influence into his style.

How could I forget Barry White. I half expected him to drive out on stage in a Lincoln Continental.

2elijah said:

prodigalfan said:

^ great post and I pretty much agree to it. I will say that Morris's persona is unique from Marvin and jackie because Jose fellas came off as smooth Mr right. Morris was a player and celebrated the players and the game. And that appealed to young men trying to be cool players themselves.

Well, I can't say it is that unique because that 'player/pimp' image was around for a while. M.Day just portrayed it at a time that others weren't doing it, and made it a character of himself on stage, but it was not a persona new to the industry. He played that persona into the songs Prince wrote, at the time. Now today, he's taking that same persona that he developed and enhanced over time, including while working with Prince, of course, made it his own, and now projecting it under the group's new name. When you look at it, the band like I said, is still technically 'The Time', under a new name, and it's plain to see that's the persona Morris and the guys want to keep. Prodigal, somehow I knew you'd dragged me right back into this conversation. You have to remember the blaxploitation movies that played into that 'pimp/gigolo' image. i.e. 'Superfly', 'The Mack' etc., with the big hats, suits, sometimes a cape, Stacey Adams type shoes, having many women, sporting a cool and suave swagger, presenting a sexual image, etc. So no, Morris' 'pimp/gigolo' image is not 'unique'. He may have celebrated the players and the game, with that persona, but the image is not 'unique' to Morris.

[Edited 12/12/11 13:23pm]

And although I agree there were many characters in movies.... I was specifically talking about music, musician, singer.

But Timmy brought up Barry White... who did have that persona in his music and on stage so it is true that Morris didn't create it. But I still think that Morris developed that character for the Time.

I know I have read that the pimp persona was created by Prince... but yeah... whatever.

I also read that Jamie Star wrote for the Time and he was a thief.

Timmy84 said:

2elijah said:

Good observation, as I agree Morris had a lot of early 'pimp/gigolo' style artists to compete with, so I do agree that he did bring sort of a Kid Creole to it, but somehow that makes me think of Cab Calloway and his zoot-styled suits, 'pimp/gigolo' persona... so all mentioned had nothing on Cab's slick styled-suits, hats, stage persona and cool swagger, as he smoothly danced and glided across the floor with his 'coolness, and he sure didn't have a problem slicking that hair back.

Let me show you what I mean....check him out at mark 3:39 on

[Edited 12/12/11 13:32pm]

You know what? You're right. Both Kid Creole and Morris took bits from Cab Calloway! Plus they all looked alike! Why did I forget Cab? Silly me.

Dang! Who is Kid Creole? I thought that was a fictional character or the name of a DJ...but I think his name was Kid Capri.

So... [runs to google for Kid Creole]

Edit:

Yeah, I guess sort of like this Kid Creole... but he seems to be more like latin/ puerto rican New Yorker slicker than the midwest pimp wanna be player that Morris projected.

[Edited 12/13/11 19:38pm]

NouveauDance said:

After watching the O7 DVD, I got the same impression I always did - that Prince, personally, shot himself in the foot when he fired J&L. The seeds of dissent were already in the band what with poor pay and them being a capable band of great players rather than just miming puppets. But you get a sense of how the Time was it's own unit, which at it's core existed before Prince, way back, so when you shit on two of the core members like that - it's going to leave a bad taste, or an even worse taste, in everybody else's mouth. The writing was definately on the wall after that.

Now Prince was already on this blue print to stardom at this point since PR was in the works, or thought of at the very least, and a record label/more produced acts would be on the cards - having J&L on that label, being Prince's 'B team' for a few years before they struck out on their own would've really given PP Records a shot in the arm. The other guys in the Time got production credits through J&L because of their heavy workload and them wanting to share the goodies, which I think is the right attitude for a growing production house. You find this in other production teams, where they have other engineers/musicians around them, and as the project grows - those people doing the day in day out drudgery of studio work will get to work on stuff, more and more as time goes by - till they're a team within a team themselves. That's apprenticeship.

Obv. it's all 'Prince fantasy football'. J&L would've really not had much impact on Prince's career that had it's trajectory and I'm not talking about that - what I mean is having more people around from the old days once the fame hit the fan, and being a little more open to others peoples ideas and input from a little earlier on might've lead to a softening of the heart on all kinds of other matters. Paisley Park Records might've actually been something, rather than just a vanity label and curiosity shop for the hardcore.

And who knows - being tucked under Prince's wing would've probably still lead to shit down the road - probably would have - If he didn't like them giving him competition in the big cities as an mere opening act, how about when J&L started having #1 hits of their own, even if they were produced through his label/studio/executive production? Prince is just that fragile of an ego to smash it all so he's the only one left standing. Maybe? Probably!

You can tell the guys in the Time still have a ton of respect for Prince as a musical force, but you can't do that kind of thing to people without it having adverse effects - even meager talents like in most manufactured bands will want to strike out for more autonomy and input once they reach a level of success. How much more frustrating must it be to be in that situation AND be a great player/aspiring producer yourself?

It's interesting that maybe Prince pushes people out of the nest early to see if they can fly or splat - not to get too Freudian, but I think you know what connections can be seen there.

Oh, I think I get what you mean. Many protogee acts talked about how long it would take to get projects completed... Robin Powers, Rosie, Bonnie, Jill....

If J&L were still part of the fold... some of the production could have gone on to their capable hands and more projects could have been completed and released more effectively...striking while the iron was hot. Instead projects languished until when finally released the receiving audience had lost interest.

Yeah, that sure would have been something to see.

prodigalfan said:

Timmy84 said:

You know what? You're right. Both Kid Creole and Morris took bits from Cab Calloway! Plus they all looked alike! Why did I forget Cab? Silly me.

Dang! Who is Kid Creole? I thought that was a fictional character or the name of a DJ...but I think his name was Kid Capri.

So... [runs to google for Kid Creole]

Edit:

Yeah, I guess sort of like this Kid Creole... but he seems to be more like latin/ puerto rican New Yorker slicker than the midwest pimp wanna be player that Morris projected.

[Edited 12/13/11 19:38pm]

Well his style and Morris' rubbed off Cab's style so...

prodigalfan said:

2elijah said:

Well, I can't say it is that unique because that 'player/pimp' image was around for a while. M.Day just portrayed it at a time that others weren't doing it, and made it a character of himself on stage, but it was not a persona new to the industry. He played that persona into the songs Prince wrote, at the time. Now today, he's taking that same persona that he developed and enhanced over time, including while working with Prince, of course, made it his own, and now projecting it under the group's new name. When you look at it, the band like I said, is still technically 'The Time', under a new name, and it's plain to see that's the persona Morris and the guys want to keep. Prodigal, somehow I knew you'd dragged me right back into this conversation. You have to remember the blaxploitation movies that played into that 'pimp/gigolo' image. i.e. 'Superfly', 'The Mack' etc., with the big hats, suits, sometimes a cape, Stacey Adams type shoes, having many women, sporting a cool and suave swagger, presenting a sexual image, etc. So no, Morris' 'pimp/gigolo' image is not 'unique'. He may have celebrated the players and the game, with that persona, but the image is not 'unique' to Morris.

[Edited 12/12/11 13:23pm]

And although I agree there were many characters in movies.... I was specifically talking about music, musician, singer.

But Timmy brought up Barry White... who did have that persona in his music and on stage so it is true that Morris didn't create it. But I still think that Morris developed that character for the Time.

I know I have read that the pimp persona was created by Prince... but yeah... whatever.

I also read that Jamie Star wrote for the Time and he was a thief.

Barry had the romance-want-to-commit-make-you-wanna-fall-in-love -I'll -marry-you-persona, while Morris Day 'developed' his stage persona moreso on the gigolo/pimp tease-don't-really-want-to commit-because there's too-many-women-to-choose-from-vaudeville humor-persona, just like Cab Calloway's was. (Prodigal, you may as well throw in the towel and give it up, because you don't have anything on me and Timmy84 with this.. ).

(Speaking of Barry, he also created and owned the name of the female group 'Love Unlimited', who were a female extension of Barry's love/romance persona and music messages of falling and being in love).

As far as Prince's creation of the Time, with Morris being the lead singer, I do think Prince had Cab's 'persona' in mind, but Morris developed it to make it his own, so isn't it just fair to say that both Prince and Morris deserve credit for their contributions to the Time, whether it was Prince's idea for creating the band and owning the name, and Morris' development of the persona of the lead singer of the Time? At this point, I'm sure they'll always be assumptions or other stories that fans will continue to develop into a 'supposed' rivalry between Prince and The Time, but at this point, it appears all parties have moved on, doing their own thing.

[Edited 12/14/11 7:23am]

^ Exactly. Prince and Morris both collaborated to make The Time project work and look what happen. They both deserve equal credit.

rdhull said:

and to think..if he never was this so called asshole...this band/dvd would have never even existed

.

[Edited 12/7/11 21:46pm]

Co-Sign!! People forget you are only hearing one side of the story. Sure prince's hands are not clean, but none of theirs are either. I am pretty sure they have not been the "Great" friend to him over the past. How quick ppl 4get that we probably woud not know who any of these ppl are, i.e. The Time, Vanity, Mayte, Mani, Carmen, Appoll, The Revolution and so on, w/o Prince giving theem their 1st break. And 4 that I think they owe him a lot more respect than what they show him. If he doesn't want u taking about him to the media, respect that and move on, but then again how would some of them stay relevant w/o talking smack abt him on F/B, Twitter and Media. We know he is by know means a Saint, but none of them are either. Shoot when Jam & lewis was at their peak, how nice were they to the fellow minions or former band mates. Move On!!!!!!

PurpleRayven said:

Shoot when Jam & lewis was at their peak, how nice were they to the fellow minions or former band mates.

Look at the credits on Janet albums etc?

Timmy84 said:

^ Exactly. Prince and Morris both collaborated to make The Time project work and look what happen. They both deserve equal credit.

It is then safe to say that you can create a movie, a band, a play with your ideas as to how you would like to see it develop and displayed, but how successful it turns out, depends on the actors/members and how they sell their image/act to their audience, which will determine the success of the result(s).

By the way, I created a thread about Prince, Morris Day and the Cab Calloway swagger on this thread link below. Bring the popcorn..mm'kay?

http://prince.org/msg/5/372574

[Edited 12/14/11 11:55am]

SoulAlive said:

prodigalfan said:

okay, I know Prince wrote and performed the music. But was it a collaborative effort between Prince and the band as far as the presentation and persona of the live BAND.

Like the suits, the way they dance... which was much different than the dancing Prince did in his own performances. What about Morris's persona as an old school pimp/gigolo. What about Jerome and the mirror because Morris is so cool (and vain).

Were these ALL Prince's ideas? With all this interaction with the band and rehearsals for the shows... were these Prince's SOLO ideas created in a vacuum??

I'm curious... because seriously, these things that I have mentioned was all part of the Time's appeal to people. It wasn't just the music. There were so many funk bands during that time.

But the Time was unique... most black bands who played funk did not dress like that... they didn't dance at all, or if they did, they did the throw back dancing you saw from the Comodores etc.

Think of Atlantic Star, Midnight Star, Zapp, Confunshun, Cameo to name a few. They all played good funk music... but none of them had the personality and connection with the audience like the Time did.

I've said this before: Prince may have wrote and produced the songs,it was the Time members themselves who brought this concept to life.Prince would not have been able to do this project with just any group of musicians.Morris' pimp persona is one of a kind.These guys deserve alot more credit for what they brought to the table.

Actually, Robyn Power said on this board that P told her that the Morris Day (Pimp) persona was him (Prince) when he is in playboy mode. I would like to believe that this is the persona P would have had if he wanted to just be an RnB star.

He was trying to keep his foot in both the Pop and RnB worlds by coming up with this band and songs. I am sure the Time added their ideas to the stage show but people really need to stop dismissing P involvement and creation of the group.

I doubt P cared if chicks were coming to his shows to see the Time since he was making the bulk of the money.

2elijah said:

prodigalfan said:

And although I agree there were many characters in movies.... I was specifically talking about music, musician, singer.

But Timmy brought up Barry White... who did have that persona in his music and on stage so it is true that Morris didn't create it. But I still think that Morris developed that character for the Time.

I know I have read that the pimp persona was created by Prince... but yeah... whatever.

I also read that Jamie Star wrote for the Time and he was a thief.

Barry had the romance-want-to-commit-make-you-wanna-fall-in-love -I'll -marry-you-persona, while Morris Day 'developed' his stage persona moreso on the gigolo/pimp tease-don't-really-want-to commit-because there's too-many-women-to-choose-from-vaudeville humor-persona, just like Cab Calloway's was. (Prodigal, you may as well throw in the towel and give it up, because you don't have anything on me and Timmy84 with this.. ).

(Speaking of Barry, he also created and owned the name of the female group 'Love Unlimited', who were a female extension of Barry's love/romance persona and music messages of falling and being in love).

As far as Prince's creation of the Time, with Morris being the lead singer, I do think Prince had Cab's 'persona' in mind, but Morris developed it to make it his own, so isn't it just fair to say that both Prince and Morris deserve credit for their contributions to the Time, whether it was Prince's idea for creating the band and owning the name, and Morris' development of the persona of the lead singer of the Time? At this point, I'm sure they'll always be assumptions or other stories that fans will continue to develop into a 'supposed' rivalry between Prince and The Time, but at this point, it appears all parties have moved on, doing their own thing.

[Edited 12/14/11 7:23am]

Okay, I admit I am definitely outranked on this subject since I know very little about Cab Calloway... all I know is that 15 sec video clip of his live performance of Heidi Heidi Heidi, Ho.

I had no idea that Cab Calloway had that kind of persona.

On a little personal brush with fame...

I made the acquaintance of a wonderful vivacious lady who was married to a musician in Cab Calloway's band and she herself was a dancer in his troupe... she described her dance and costumes as similar to .... shoot, what is the banana dress lady's name again????!!!

(oh yeah)... Josephine Baker. This lady was a dancer similiar to style as Josephine Baker.

I actually met the husband as well. Two very much passionately in love people even though they were in advanced age. And they weren't sweet old people... they were hip and jazzy. She still had that walk you know how dancers who know they got IT walk? I mentioned it to her... she replied 'oh Chile, that is just bad feet."

I still smile thinking of her.

PurpleRayven said:

rdhull said:

and to think..if he never was this so called asshole...this band/dvd would have never even existed

.

[Edited 12/7/11 21:46pm]

Co-Sign!! People forget you are only hearing one side of the story. Sure prince's hands are not clean, but none of theirs are either. I am pretty sure they have not been the "Great" friend to him over the past. How quick ppl 4get that we probably woud not know who any of these ppl are, i.e. The Time, Vanity, Mayte, Mani, Carmen, Appoll, The Revolution and so on, w/o Prince giving theem their 1st break. And 4 that I think they owe him a lot more respect than what they show him. If he doesn't want u taking about him to the media, respect that and move on, but then again how would some of them stay relevant w/o talking smack abt him on F/B, Twitter and Media. We know he is by know means a Saint, but none of them are either. Shoot when Jam & lewis was at their peak, how nice were they to the fellow minions or former band mates. Move On!!!!!!

Well then we should also give respect to ... what was the name of that guy who gave Prince HIS first break????

prodigalfan said:

PurpleRayven said:

Co-Sign!! People forget you are only hearing one side of the story. Sure prince's hands are not clean, but none of theirs are either. I am pretty sure they have not been the "Great" friend to him over the past. How quick ppl 4get that we probably woud not know who any of these ppl are, i.e. The Time, Vanity, Mayte, Mani, Carmen, Appoll, The Revolution and so on, w/o Prince giving theem their 1st break. And 4 that I think they owe him a lot more respect than what they show him. If he doesn't want u taking about him to the media, respect that and move on, but then again how would some of them stay relevant w/o talking smack abt him on F/B, Twitter and Media. We know he is by know means a Saint, but none of them are either. Shoot when Jam & lewis was at their peak, how nice were they to the fellow minions or former band mates. Move On!!!!!!

Well then we should also give respect to ... what was the name of that guy who gave Prince HIS first break????

Pepe Willie, right? Or was it Chris Moon?

laurarichardson said:

SoulAlive said:

I've said this before: Prince may have wrote and produced the songs,it was the Time members themselves who brought this concept to life.Prince would not have been able to do this project with just any group of musicians.Morris' pimp persona is one of a kind.These guys deserve alot more credit for what they brought to the table.

Actually, Robyn Power said on this board that P told her that the Morris Day (Pimp) persona was him (Prince) when he is in playboy mode. I would like to believe that this is the persona P would have had if he wanted to just be an RnB star.

He was trying to keep his foot in both the Pop and RnB worlds by coming up with this band and songs. I am sure the Time added their ideas to the stage show but people really need to stop dismissing P involvement and creation of the group.

I doubt P cared if chicks were coming to his shows to see the Time since he was making the bulk of the money.

I think the whole issue is in this thread is NOT that people are taking away from Prince's work in the time... it is people taking away from the TIME in the Time.

I read people saying that since it was Prince's lyrics and music that the Time members were hired musicians and were interchangeable parts. There are people here who disagree with that notion. The Time are talented and added to vibe that was the Time. No one is taking away from Prince. Just saying people need to stop dissing the Time.

^ Maybe I'm reading this thread wrong but who is discrediting The Time? I know I ain't...

prodigalfan said:

2elijah said:

Barry had the romance-want-to-commit-make-you-wanna-fall-in-love -I'll -marry-you-persona, while Morris Day 'developed' his stage persona moreso on the gigolo/pimp tease-don't-really-want-to commit-because there's too-many-women-to-choose-from-vaudeville humor-persona, just like Cab Calloway's was. (Prodigal, you may as well throw in the towel and give it up, because you don't have anything on me and Timmy84 with this.. ).

(Speaking of Barry, he also created and owned the name of the female group 'Love Unlimited', who were a female extension of Barry's love/romance persona and music messages of falling and being in love).

As far as Prince's creation of the Time, with Morris being the lead singer, I do think Prince had Cab's 'persona' in mind, but Morris developed it to make it his own, so isn't it just fair to say that both Prince and Morris deserve credit for their contributions to the Time, whether it was Prince's idea for creating the band and owning the name, and Morris' development of the persona of the lead singer of the Time? At this point, I'm sure they'll always be assumptions or other stories that fans will continue to develop into a 'supposed' rivalry between Prince and The Time, but at this point, it appears all parties have moved on, doing their own thing.

[Edited 12/14/11 7:23am]

Okay, I admit I am definitely outranked on this subject since I know very little about Cab Calloway... all I know is that 15 sec video clip of his live performance of Heidi Heidi Heidi, Ho.

I had no idea that Cab Calloway had that kind of persona.

On a little personal brush with fame...

I made the acquaintance of a wonderful vivacious lady who was married to a musician in Cab Calloway's band and she herself was a dancer in his troupe... she described her dance and costumes as similar to .... shoot, what is the banana dress lady's name again????!!!

(oh yeah)... Josephine Baker. This lady was a dancer similiar to style as Josephine Baker.

I actually met the husband as well. Two very much passionately in love people even though they were in advanced age. And they weren't sweet old people... they were hip and jazzy. She still had that walk you know how dancers who know they got IT walk? I mentioned it to her... she replied 'oh Chile, that is just bad feet."

I still smile thinking of her.

very interesting story about the lady who once danced in Cab's troupe. Who knows you may find her dancing in one of his vids.

Isn't it funny how we connected on the mention of Cab Calloway though? Cab's early days were during my parents' time, and when you see the movies he was in during the vaudeville days and the era of big bands, Cab played the 'pretty boy' pimp/gigolo image, and the one who 'got' the ladies. I actually never connected Morris Day's persona to Cab until I conversed here on this thread, and somehow it came to me that Morris' persona reflected Cab's. I think Prince may have had that in mind during the creation of the Time. Prince's character reminded me of Cab and the days of big band performers like Cab, in his role in 'Under the Cherry Moon' with the slick back hair, animated expressions and humor he brought with it, not to mention how he dressed, and was the pimp/gigolo type character in the movie who was the one who ended up getting swept off his feet by a girl. Pretty much like Morris Day's present-day stage persona in The Time. It definitely goes without saying that Prince was the creator of that group, and the fellas in it, went on to develop the music skills/talent they already had and brought to it, as well as adding/developing the personas they bring together as a group.

[Edited 12/15/11 8:23am]

prodigalfan said:

PurpleRayven said:

Co-Sign!! People forget you are only hearing one side of the story. Sure prince's hands are not clean, but none of theirs are either. I am pretty sure they have not been the "Great" friend to him over the past. How quick ppl 4get that we probably woud not know who any of these ppl are, i.e. The Time, Vanity, Mayte, Mani, Carmen, Appoll, The Revolution and so on, w/o Prince giving theem their 1st break. And 4 that I think they owe him a lot more respect than what they show him. If he doesn't want u taking about him to the media, respect that and move on, but then again how would some of them stay relevant w/o talking smack abt him on F/B, Twitter and Media. We know he is by know means a Saint, but none of them are either. Shoot when Jam & lewis was at their peak, how nice were they to the fellow minions or former band mates. Move On!!!!!!

Well then we should also give respect to ... what was the name of that guy who gave Prince HIS first break????

Oops...not so fast. You may want to hold that thought, and see this thread link below. Looks like Jesse may be walking away from the group. So there may be trouble among the fellas in the group after all. We will have to see how this will affect the rest of the members.

http://prince.org/msg/5/372640

Orger Steve Anthony just posted this in the Assoc Artist's section:

"Jesse Johnson leaving the O7

Just posted on his Facebook:"

"I don't really think I'll be performing with the Original any more! We simple don't see eye to eye on anything. Love the guys, but I feel in my heart it's "Time" to walk away while we're all still friends. Peace be with you all and them all. PeaceLove Jesse Johnson"

[Edited 12/15/11 10:10am]

Original 6ix

2elijah said:

prodigalfan said:

Oops...not so fast. You may want to hold that thought, and see this thread link below. Looks like Jesse may be walking away from the group. So there may be trouble among the fellas in the group after all. We will have to see how this will affect the rest of the members.

http://prince.org/msg/5/372640

Orger Steve Anthony just posted this in the Assoc Artist's section:

"Jesse Johnson leaving the O7

Just posted on his Facebook:"

"I don't really think I'll be performing with the Original any more! We simple don't see eye to eye on anything. Love the guys, but I feel in my heart it's "Time" to walk away while we're all still friends. Peace be with you all and them all. PeaceLove Jesse Johnson"

[Edited 12/15/11 10:10am]

I'm not surprised to be honest...