what in the world? this took a real left turn

OldFriends4Sale said:

cdog572 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Do not post racist or 'hateful' material.
This means no racist/homophobic comments, period. Discussions of racism itself in the proper forum are OK. Making hateful comments, directed at a person or group, may get your account immediately suspended. We are extremely serious about this. prince.org is not a place for racial bigotry or hateful speech.

Um,Excuse me,Did you happen to read all the comments on this post?I suggest you do so.I posted my opinion and I got insulted by a few folks on this page.Disagreement is one thing.But nobody on this page is going to carry me like I'm a ----- just because they disagree with what I said.Respect goes both ways.

Nobody disrespected you, they disagreed with you. You then started getting very aggressive with people, principally because you realised you were in such a minority of opinion. I tried to warn you that you were bringing a lot on yourself, but you chose to inflame the situation and further isolate yourself. YOU were the one who brought up the subject of "winning wars" (whatever that had to do with this!) and people's sexuality and sexism etc etc

And, as for being "unafraid" to display your bigoted and arrogant views, you've been a member for 6 years and have posted 30-something times! Way to go.

Your thread is moot - things happened as they did and all your chest-beating and insulting isn't going to change a damn thing. You'd be better off reconciling that fact.

cdog572 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Do not post racist or 'hateful' material.
This means no racist/homophobic comments, period. Discussions of racism itself in the proper forum are OK. Making hateful comments, directed at a person or group, may get your account immediately suspended. We are extremely serious about this. prince.org is not a place for racial bigotry or hateful speech.

Um,Excuse me,Did you happen to read all the comments on this post?I suggest you do so.I posted my opinion and I got insulted by a few folks on this page.Disagreement is one thing.But nobody on this page is going to carry me like I'm a ----- just because they disagree with what I said.Respect goes both ways.

I SUGGEST you back off, before you get your dog chain pulled

Read the dam rules, if you can't handle people disagreeing with you then don't

post topics where you know people are going to come after u.

You are NOT talking about why it would be a good thing for SOTT as a follow up

you are tearing down 2 album most of the Prince community love

which means they are going to disagree with u

and U posted homophobic comments

Be civilizedDon't create offensive, vulgar, obscene, threatening, abusive or excessively profane posts. Do not instigate, engage in, or encourage 'flame wars'. If you insult someone "jokingly", be prepared to have it not interpreted that way by the Moderators. A good general rule: "criticize ideas, not people." Any language which encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense is grounds for immediate account deletion.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Posted before I read how ugly this got, I want nothing to do with this.

[Edited 11/17/11 12:27pm]

[Edited 11/17/11 13:26pm]

I think it's a shame that some of the most interesting threads get bogged down with posts about how 'dumb' the topic is. I cringe when I read posts from people who seem seriously offended by the ideas the OP presents and respond with a kind of 'how dare you!' attitude. That kind of response is often more personally directed than simple disagreement, and seldom has interesting content.

I also think the mods here might be a little biased - calling cdog out for being hostile, yet a lot of the responses, either explicitly or in the subtext, carry the message 'OP is an idiot'. Of course I understand that homophobis language might be offensive to some, but calling someone an idiot is definitely offensive to someone.

Anyway, back on topic. It's been brought up that SOTT couldn't come after purple rain because there was a musical journey in between. How about we think about an alternate history where SOTT still comes out in 1987, ATWIAD and Parade are still recorded, but just not released (in fact I think this is what cdog had in mind?). Of course SOTT would still be different. Maybe we'd get a 3LP version called Crystal Ball (since WB might think that Prince is still on fire and he's comin back again in a big way with another movie and monster album!). But it would still essentially be SOTT jams, right?

Well, I'm not sure. I think this alternate history wouldn't have the SOTT we know and love not because Prince didn't make ATWIAD and Parade, but because he didn't get the feedback from those albums. Maybe if Prince didn't release ATWIAD, he'd still be curious to see how that 'psychedelic' sound would go over with his audience, and SOTT would end up sounding a lot closer to ATWIAD than it does now.

Unfortunately, you can't just rearrange the bricks at the foundation.

Do I like SOTT better than ATWIAD & Parade? YES

BUT, I'm still a Prince fan today because he got me to listen to musical styles that I never would have been turned on to if it wasn't for him... Who knows, I may have simply gotten bored with Prince back in the 80's if everything was just funk, rock & sexy slow jams.

I loved how songs like Tambourine, Pop Life, New Position, I Wonder U, Girls & Boys etc, could be so weird and different yet still funky and catchy at the same time...

SOTT "may" have been a bigger commercial success if it was the follow up to PR, but Prince would not have the same legacy that he has today if you removed his more experimental albums...Period.

fusk said:

I think it's a shame that some of the most interesting threads get bogged down with posts about how 'dumb' the topic is. I cringe when I read posts from people who seem seriously offended by the ideas the OP presents and respond with a kind of 'how dare you!' attitude. That kind of response is often more personally directed than simple disagreement, and seldom has interesting content.

I also think the mods here might be a little biased - calling cdog out for being hostile, yet a lot of the responses, either explicitly or in the subtext, carry the message 'OP is an idiot'. Of course I understand that homophobis language might be offensive to some, but calling someone an idiot is definitely offensive to someone.

Anyway, back on topic. It's been brought up that SOTT couldn't come after purple rain because there was a musical journey in between. How about we think about an alternate history where SOTT still comes out in 1987, ATWIAD and Parade are still recorded, but just not released (in fact I think this is what cdog had in mind?). Of course SOTT would still be different. Maybe we'd get a 3LP version called Crystal Ball (since WB might think that Prince is still on fire and he's comin back again in a big way with another movie and monster album!). But it would still essentially be SOTT jams, right?

Well, I'm not sure. I think this alternate history wouldn't have the SOTT we know and love not because Prince didn't make ATWIAD and Parade, but because he didn't get the feedback from those albums. Maybe if Prince didn't release ATWIAD, he'd still be curious to see how that 'psychedelic' sound would go over with his audience, and SOTT would end up sounding a lot closer to ATWIAD than it does now.

Get over it there is no bias

and as far as I see there is only 1 mod participating,

I've always enjoyed what if topics, there is another about "the Dance Electric" being the followup to Purple Rain and I like that one too. So please don't go creating some Mod vs member crap

If u have a mod issue take it up in the appropriate forum.

Again if you can't handle to criticism (who is new to the .org) then don't put your hand in the fire.

The originator of the topic didn't follow thru with a good arguement

He began calling Prince a sell out, bring up blacks didn't like this white didn't like that

attacking fan fav albums with very unfactual statements

and he opened himself up to what he's getting

I also don't think cdog was alive from the beginning of Prince's career, but that's my personal feeling.

CDogs facts

Sad but true.Prince was seen as a sell out and he never regained his audience and core fanbase after that.

ATWIAD alienated both Prince's R&B and Rock/Pop Fans,especially in the African American Community.Prince seriously fell off in Public Opinion and Prince's Black fans moved on to Hip Hop and Prince's White fans moved on to Madonna,George Michael,Bon Jovi.

ATWIAD alienated both Prince's R&B and Rock/Pop Fans,especially in the African American Community

Prince seriously fell off in Public Opinion and Prince's Black fans moved on to Hip Hop and Prince's White fans moved on to Madonna,George Michael,Bon Jovi.

Because Around the World in a Day was seen as a giant middle finger to fans who had supported Prince since 1978 and those who had become Prince fans after Dirty Mind,Controversy,1999 and Purple Rain

So what exactly does that say about me as a Prince fan since 1979?

I think The Gold Experience is one of the best and most coherent records he's ever done

If you are not from the U.S then you haave no clue what the hell I'm talking about circa 1985-86

It was those two albums that destroyed any chance that SOTT had of blowing up

I guess I like hardcore Funk,Rock more than Faggot Pop and Fluff.Of course Lovesexy scored big in the UK and bombed here in America.Europe seems to embrace the Gay Vibe (David Bowie,Lou Reed,Boy George) and Fluff Pop (Duran Duran,Wham!) way more than Americans do.I'm beginning to understand the love affair with ATWIAD now.

The music on SOTT would have a perfect compliment to Purple

Most people here in the U.S prefer the Prince Era 1978-1984

Bottom line is instead of delivering gold after Purple Rain,Prince delivered s**t.Damn,No wonder you MFs can't win a war!

calling atwiad/parade selling out is so ludicrous im pretty sure it has to be some trollin

Re: the list of cdog's facts...

the first many points don't sound like trolling to me - in fact they coincide with what little i know about that era. I'm no prince historian (plus i was born in 87), but a lot of things i've heard/read from that era make it sound like ATWIAD was alienating and Parade had more of a 'European Sound' (whatever that means... it suggests that Parade had more of an affinity with Europe than with the US).

Then the rest of the list has the more confrontational stuff, but that's all from after the flame war started, so it sort of doesn't count. You can't take those lines out of context as if cdog is just railing on people for no reason. If you're going to make a list of inflammatory remarks, you should include stuff like Mind Flux' post about, 'this topic is so dumb', and 'shut up because you're not a rock star and therefore you have to shut up'.

I mean, it's not only in this thread that this happens. A short while ago Eros posted some threads about 'how prince f'd us all up', etc, and I thought they were really interesting - particularly when that other guy who was interested in discussion showed up (i forget his/her name, but it had a bunch of numbers in it). But of course it was flooded with posts about how the topic was dumb, how offended people were that Eros would assume that everyone is 'F'd up', how Eros is just trolling again, etc. Eros didn't respond to these remarks with more flame, but I get the feeling that if he did, he'd be blamed for starting the flame war with his 'trollish-posts that are offensive to prince fans'.

Which is happening here, I think. CDog is the instigator because he 'trashed' some prince albums... (or just reported that they were alienating, an opinion that people don't dig, apparently). Isn't trashing an album people like qualitatively different from insulting the people themselves? I just don't see how cdog 'opened himself up' to personal attack.

fusk said:

Re: the list of cdog's facts...

the first many points don't sound like trolling to me - in fact they coincide with what little i know about that era. I'm no prince historian (plus i was born in 87), but a lot of things i've heard/read from that era make it sound like ATWIAD was alienating and Parade had more of a 'European Sound' (whatever that means... it suggests that Parade had more of an affinity with Europe than with the US).

Then the rest of the list has the more confrontational stuff, but that's all from after the flame war started, so it sort of doesn't count. You can't take those lines out of context as if cdog is just railing on people for no reason. If you're going to make a list of inflammatory remarks, you should include stuff like Mind Flux' post about, 'this topic is so dumb', and 'shut up because you're not a rock star and therefore you have to shut up'.

I mean, it's not only in this thread that this happens. A short while ago Eros posted some threads about 'how prince f'd us all up', etc, and I thought they were really interesting - particularly when that other guy who was interested in discussion showed up (i forget his/her name, but it had a bunch of numbers in it). But of course it was flooded with posts about how the topic was dumb, how offended people were that Eros would assume that everyone is 'F'd up', how Eros is just trolling again, etc. Eros didn't respond to these remarks with more flame, but I get the feeling that if he did, he'd be blamed for starting the flame war with his 'trollish-posts that are offensive to prince fans'.

Which is happening here, I think. CDog is the instigator because he 'trashed' some prince albums... (or just reported that they were alienating, an opinion that people don't dig, apparently). Isn't trashing an album people like qualitatively different from insulting the people themselves? I just don't see how cdog 'opened himself up' to personal attack.

Hold on a mo there Fusk. I did NOT personally insult the OP. I said this was a dumb thread, not that the OP was dumb. I have a right to say this is a stupid subject and that the thread was unfolding that way. That is not a personal attack.I questioned the idea, not the person.

Furthermore, I also didn't say anything like "shutup because you're not a rock star" (which, incidentally, neither am I!). After my first post, the OP came back with personal insults like "SimonCowell wannabe", sexist remarks such as I was behaving like a "petulant woman", telling me to "kiss his ass" and asking me "what the hell" I knew about creative process. I responded that I'm a music producer, so I happen to know a fair bit and suggested that I probably knew more than him about that, then asking what it is he does. They're fair comments and, to be honest, were quite polite given the vitriol I was receiving.

I even went as far as to warn him that he was bringing a whole heap on himself with his attitude. How you are inferring from this that I was insulting or inflammatory is beyond me.

I didn't personally attack him at ANY point, even after the insults. He then went on to bringing war, politics, jingoism, homophobic remarks etc etc in to the argument. Why are you defending someone like that?! And, even if he was provoked, as you suggest, that in no way justifies the resultant behaviour and to say so is somewhat misguided (by the way, that's not an insult either, ok?).

fusk said:

Re: the list of cdog's facts...

the first many points don't sound like trolling to me - in fact they coincide with what little i know about that era. I'm no prince historian (plus i was born in 87), but a lot of things i've heard/read from that era make it sound like ATWIAD was alienating and Parade had more of a 'European Sound' (whatever that means... it suggests that Parade had more of an affinity with Europe than with the US).

Then the rest of the list has the more confrontational stuff, but that's all from after the flame war started, so it sort of doesn't count. You can't take those lines out of context as if cdog is just railing on people for no reason. If you're going to make a list of inflammatory remarks, you should include stuff like Mind Flux' post about, 'this topic is so dumb', and 'shut up because you're not a rock star and therefore you have to shut up'.

I mean, it's not only in this thread that this happens. A short while ago Eros posted some threads about 'how prince f'd us all up', etc, and I thought they were really interesting - particularly when that other guy who was interested in discussion showed up (i forget his/her name, but it had a bunch of numbers in it). But of course it was flooded with posts about how the topic was dumb, how offended people were that Eros would assume that everyone is 'F'd up', how Eros is just trolling again, etc. Eros didn't respond to these remarks with more flame, but I get the feeling that if he did, he'd be blamed for starting the flame war with his 'trollish-posts that are offensive to prince fans'.

Which is happening here, I think. CDog is the instigator because he 'trashed' some prince albums... (or just reported that they were alienating, an opinion that people don't dig, apparently). Isn't trashing an album people like qualitatively different from insulting the people themselves? I just don't see how cdog 'opened himself up' to personal attack.

Not true, the whole thing is non factual information about Prince 1984-1987

I never said he/she was trolling, I warned him about the homophobic language... wait. Mind your business on that. If he has a problem we'll deal with it on the side. Your reading into stuff. We don't need you throwing yourself in front of the bus. He's supposedly a 42 year old man.

Dream Factory was not the follow up to ATWIAD

Prince & the Revolution DID tour the States for Parade

ATWIAD & Parade didn't mess up things for the success of SOTT, Prince did that because he wanted Crystal Ball(3albums) he didn't get what he wanted so he didn't choose to promote the album like he should have and like WB wanted him too

the list show how far off he is about Prince history

Mindflux said:

Hold on a mo there Fusk. I did NOT personally insult the OP. I said this was a dumb thread, not that the OP was dumb. I have a right to say this is a stupid subject and that the thread was unfolding that way. That is not a personal attack.I questioned the idea, not the person.

Furthermore, I also didn't say anything like "shutup because you're not a rock star" (which, incidentally, neither am I!). After my first post, the OP came back with personal insults like "SimonCowell wannabe", sexist remarks such as I was behaving like a "petulant woman", telling me to "kiss his ass" and asking me "what the hell" I knew about creative process. I responded that I'm a music producer, so I happen to know a fair bit and suggested that I probably knew more than him about that, then asking what it is he does. They're fair comments and, to be honest, were quite polite given the vitriol I was receiving.

I even went as far as to warn him that he was bringing a whole heap on himself with his attitude. How you are inferring from this that I was insulting or inflammatory is beyond me.

I didn't personally attack him at ANY point, even after the insults. He then went on to bringing war, politics, jingoism, homophobic remarks etc etc in to the argument. Why are you defending someone like that?! And, even if he was provoked, as you suggest, that in no way justifies the resultant behaviour and to say so is somewhat misguided (by the way, that's not an insult either, ok?).

For the record, I'm not defending anything racist or homophobic. And just to make something else clear before someone get confused: cdog and I are different people with different ideas, so I hope people don't start talking as if we're 'on the same team'.

Anyway, here are some excerpts from your first post.

Mindflux said:

What a dumb thread! The OP seems to think that because he's been a fan since the year dot, that seems to qualify him as some music career guru! Don't make me laugh - if you're so aware of how to make a successful pop career, why aren't you either a) a successful pop artist yourself or b) a manager?

[...]

Your comments prove you have no clue about creative process. [...]

[...]

Prince has done absolutely fine without your advice. But, seriously, get out there and manage someone if you think you know best.

[Edited 11/15/11 2:46am]

I agree that you have a right to think a topic is stupid, but you don't think you're using confrontational language here? Sure, you're not explicitly saying 'cdog is a big idiot', but instead you're saying that his thread is dumb and he's a high-and-mighty know-nothing with laughable ideas/opinions. Is "if you're so aware of how to make a successful pop career, why aren't you..." supposed to be an honest question or is it a rhetorical device trying to make someone look foolish? It's pretty zainy that I'm spelling this out. I'm also sorry that I'm picking on you, Mindflux, like you're the only one who posts like this (faaar from it). It's just a style of passive-aggressive writing that bothers me and I see a fair amount of it here.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Not thru the whole thing is non factual information about Prince 1984-1987

I never said he/she was trolling, I warned him about the homophobic language... wait. Mind your business on that. If he has I problem we'll deal with it on the side. Your reading into stuff. We don't need you throwing yourself in front of the bus. He's supposedly a 42 year old man.

Dream Factory was not the follow up to ATWIAD

Prince & the Revolution DID tour the States for Parade

ATWIAD & Parade didn't mess up things for the success of SOTT, Prince did that because he wanted Crystal Ball(3albums) he didn't get what he wanted so he didn't choose to promote the album like he should have and like WB wanted him too

the list show how far off he is about Prince history

I dunno. A lot of it jived with what I've already heard elsewhere. (Ps, by 'tour the States for Parade', do you mean the one-off shows in 1986 listed on princevault? I'd forgive someone if they didn't think that qualified as a tour.)

fusk said:

Mindflux said:

Hold on a mo there Fusk. I did NOT personally insult the OP. I said this was a dumb thread, not that the OP was dumb. I have a right to say this is a stupid subject and that the thread was unfolding that way. That is not a personal attack.I questioned the idea, not the person.

Furthermore, I also didn't say anything like "shutup because you're not a rock star" (which, incidentally, neither am I!). After my first post, the OP came back with personal insults like "SimonCowell wannabe", sexist remarks such as I was behaving like a "petulant woman", telling me to "kiss his ass" and asking me "what the hell" I knew about creative process. I responded that I'm a music producer, so I happen to know a fair bit and suggested that I probably knew more than him about that, then asking what it is he does. They're fair comments and, to be honest, were quite polite given the vitriol I was receiving.

I even went as far as to warn him that he was bringing a whole heap on himself with his attitude. How you are inferring from this that I was insulting or inflammatory is beyond me.

I didn't personally attack him at ANY point, even after the insults. He then went on to bringing war, politics, jingoism, homophobic remarks etc etc in to the argument. Why are you defending someone like that?! And, even if he was provoked, as you suggest, that in no way justifies the resultant behaviour and to say so is somewhat misguided (by the way, that's not an insult either, ok?).

For the record, I'm not defending anything racist or homophobic. And just to make something else clear before someone get confused: cdog and I are different people with different ideas, so I hope people don't start talking as if we're 'on the same team'.

Anyway, here are some excerpts from your first post.

Mindflux said:

What a dumb thread! The OP seems to think that because he's been a fan since the year dot, that seems to qualify him as some music career guru! Don't make me laugh - if you're so aware of how to make a successful pop career, why aren't you either a) a successful pop artist yourself or b) a manager?

[...]

Your comments prove you have no clue about creative process. [...]

[...]

Prince has done absolutely fine without your advice. But, seriously, get out there and manage someone if you think you know best.

[Edited 11/15/11 2:46am]

I agree that you have a right to think a topic is stupid, but you don't think you're using confrontational language here? Sure, you're not explicitly saying 'cdog is a big idiot', but instead you're saying that his thread is dumb and he's a high-and-mighty know-nothing with laughable ideas/opinions. Is "if you're so aware of how to make a successful pop career, why aren't you..." supposed to be an honest question or is it a rhetorical device trying to make someone look foolish? It's pretty zainy that I'm spelling this out. I'm also sorry that I'm picking on you, Mindflux, like you're the only one who posts like this (faaar from it). It's just a style of passive-aggressive writing that bothers me and I see a fair amount of it here.

Its interesting that you immediately feel the need to declare that you are "not the same person" - that's a somewhat unusual step, wouldn't you agree? One could say that only heightens suspicion, especially when you combine that with the fact that both you and cdog have hardly ever made any posts on the .org. However, I'm prepared to take your declaration at face-value.

You don't need to quote back to me what I said - I know precisely what I said. Sure, my comments could be seen as provocative, perhaps - but, insulting? No. In the context of the .org, or even a conversation between people in a bar, none of what I said could or should be construed as being offensive. And certainly when you compare it to some of the stuff cdog said, its relatively lightweight and polite.

And, anyway, so what? Just what are you trying to prove and why are you persisting with this? The mods felt that cdog overstepped the mark and that I didn't. Why are you trying to prove otherwise? I'm sorry if "passive-aggressive" writing bothers you, but there are far worse things around here. Furthermore, you are misappropriating the term "passive-agressive" as many people do - that seems to be a fashionable thing to say, yet many use it incorrectly. One could aruge that you are being offensive to me here, because you are accusing me of having a specific, psychological condition. Nothing that I wrote meets the criteria of a passive-aggressive disposition. About the worst you could accuse me of is sarcasm.

Whilst we're at it, let's deal with your points about "honest questions" and "rhetorical device to make someone look foolish" - I think you should have a good look in the mirror! What do you have to say about deliberately misquoting me with the "I'm a rock star so you need to shutup" skit? Are you not purposely spinning what I said, whilst attempting to make it look like that was exactly what I said to serve the purpose of making me look like something other than I am? You know what they say about people in glass houses.....

Furthermore, there are literally thousands of threads trying, pointlessly, to revise history - now, a bit like OF4S, I don't actually mind a "what-if?" thread, (do I need to point out here that me and OF4S are actually separate entities?!) but there are far too many, like this one, where it goes beyond that in to the realms of "Prince was a dick/doesn't know what he's doing/he should have done this" which, to me, is ridiculous. Perhaps that is because of what I do. I would take great exception to any of my fans coming on to a messageboard telling me what I should and shouldn't do (btw, I'm not suggesting that Prince is going to take any personal offence from anything here, or implying that I am offended on his behalf). The point is, I find it a tiresome subject when presented in this fashion. But, maybe I would feel that way regardless of what I do - who can say?

I make the music I like to make and if other people like it, that's a boon. Prince does exactly the same and I would suggest that any artist worth their salt should also pursue that course. Once you start down the road of just trying to write something that is popular, you are not being true to yourself and the resultant art will certainly be contrived and maybe distasteful. The majority of music that gets derided on this board is EXACTLY that! Music that is deliberately written to be generic, please the masses and make money for the label. Its not art - its marketing. And I made a similar point in my very first post. Should I apologise for caring passionately about a subject, so much so that it led me to, in your view, write in a "passive-aggressive" style? I don't think so.

I'm still not sure why you are so insistant on making this your business. I think me and cdog seem to have dealt with it well enough - there's been no arguing between us since, we're not tearing each other to bits or even perpetuating the situation. Yet, here you are, late to the thread, stoking fires that had already dwindled and trying to accuse someone else of having started it! So, I'm sorry if you don't like it and would prefer to berate me over someone who made BLATANT and highly offensive remarks, but I stand by what I said and the principles behind it.

[Edited 11/18/11 3:50am]

argue with humour not aggression cdog. if u make derogatory remarks about 2 of my favourite albums ever then of course i'm gonna defend them, they're my babies! bringing wars into it is ludicrous, i have no time for jingoistic flag waving and i despise patriotism so trying to rile me that way is pointless. u say you're not a homophobe so don't use homophobic language, simple. for the record, i took no offence, i've got thick skin and i enjoy a spar. however, if i was gay i would take it a different way. methinks u need to listen to the lyrics of "uptown" mate, or even better "paisley park"

fusk said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Not thru the whole thing is non factual information about Prince 1984-1987

I never said he/she was trolling, I warned him about the homophobic language... wait. Mind your business on that. If he has I problem we'll deal with it on the side. Your reading into stuff. We don't need you throwing yourself in front of the bus. He's supposedly a 42 year old man.

Dream Factory was not the follow up to ATWIAD

Prince & the Revolution DID tour the States for Parade

ATWIAD & Parade didn't mess up things for the success of SOTT, Prince did that because he wanted Crystal Ball(3albums) he didn't get what he wanted so he didn't choose to promote the album like he should have and like WB wanted him too

the list show how far off he is about Prince history

I dunno. A lot of it jived with what I've already heard elsewhere. (Ps, by 'tour the States for Parade', do you mean the one-off shows in 1986 listed on princevault? I'd forgive someone if they didn't think that qualified as a tour.)

I created a thread called the Parade era 1985-1986

U nor CDog seem to realize that he tour the Parade music from Europe the USA & Japan

This list does not include the 1st Avenue opening, the Minnesota Music Awards performance (6-7) songs the shows done with Sheila E

May
23.Warfield Theater, San Francisco
30.Wiltern Theater, Los Angeles
June
6. Masonic Temple, Detroit
7. Cobo Arena. Detroit
9. Freedom Hall, Louisville, Kentucky
July
1. Holiday Inn. Sheridan "World Premiere"
3 .McNichols Arena, Denver
August
2. Madison Square Garden, NY
3. Madison Square Garden, NY

August
12. Wembley Arena, London, England
----Aftershow Busby's
13. Wembley Arena, London, England
----Aftershow Kensington Roof Gardens
14. Wembley Arena, London. England
17. Ahoyhal, Rotterdam, Holland
18. Ahoyhal, Rotterdam, Holland (D)
------------"Manic Monday"
19. Ahoyhal, Rotterdam, Holland
21. Valbyhallen, Copenhagen, Denmark
22. Isstadion, Stockholm, Sweden (D)
----- -------"City Lights stockholm"
24. Le New Morning
25. Le Zenith, Paris, France (D)
---------"Prade Around The World"sab
26. Eissporthalle, Frankfurt, West Germany
27. Vorst Nationaal, Brussels, Belgium
28. Eissporthalle, Frankfurt, West Germany
30. Alsterdorfer Sporthalle,Hamburg
31. Alsterdorfer Sporthalle,Hamburg
-----------NPG Ahdio Show - 7曲分

September
5. Festival Hall, Osaka, Japan
6. Festival Hall, Osaka, Japan
8.Yokohama Stadium, Yokohama, Japan
9.Yokohama Stadium, Yokohama, Japan

You don't need to quote back to me what I said - I know precisely what I said. Sure, my comments could be seen as provocative, perhaps - but, insulting? No. In the context of the .org, or even a conversation between people in a bar, none of what I said could or should be construed as being offensive. And certainly when you compare it to some of the stuff cdog said, its relatively lightweight and polite.

trying to compare "this thread is stupid" to, "the music you all enjoy is faggot music", is quite laughable

I understand what the OP means by ATWIAD/Parade "selling out", but I don't think that terminology is quite right. You mean appealing to the white market as 'selling out'?.... I disagree, but I think that's what you meant.

'Selling out', would surely have been milking Purple Rain till it was a withered husk by, I dunno a sixth or seventh single (*cough* MJ & Janet *cough*), and touring the shit out of the album all around the world, not just the USA and then waiting till 1987 to release a pale follow up of the same ilk (*cough* M.... you get the idea).

I don't really see it as going for the white market or selling out, I think Prince was trying to expand his repertoire. During the time between Purple Rain and SOTT, Prince was burning through a lot of influences, not all of them "psychedelic" and "Beatles-esque" - what about Miles Davis and dipping his toe into Jazz-Funk? The Flesh and Madhouse, are they 'white'/sellout projects? New Position and Girls & Boys don't sound particularly "white" either.

If Prince wanted to expand his audience and sell out by going 'white', he fucked that up, because ATWIAD and Parade sales pale in comparison to PR. If there was any argument for selling out and going "white"/mainstream, wouldn't that be Purple Rain? He didn't want to fuck the taste out of anyone's mouth on that album

Purple Rain might've put him on the map, but the albums that followed up to Lovesexy kept him there. If Prince didn't challenged himself with the 85-87 period, he'd probably be looked upon much more as one of those artists at the time who had a huge hit as part of the zeitgeist, then they were creatively spent, which Prince wasn't, and isn't seen as being. If anything the success of PR allowed him to reach outside his comfort zone and become that artist who sits up there with the other greats of 20th century popular music (and eventually cocoon himself into artistic lethargy, but that's another thread).

"That's why I gotta get on my own way
That's the new golden rule....

There's a misconception that says
Everything on the one (Everything on the one)
And my first reaction is just try 2 have a little fun"

That's basically what I think what Prince's career was about between 1999 and Lovesexy.

cdog572 said:

Finally somebody understands where I was coming from.You had to be here in America to understand how ATWIAD was received.I guess I had to be overseas to understand how much ATWIAD was beloved.I have been a Prince fan since 1979.Is that so hard to believe that a 9 year old kid could like Prince Music?I was also into KISS at that age too.My older brother who was 14 and also a Prince fan and had his albums.We studied Prince like most people study the Bible.I responded to those who went beyond disagreement to downright insulting.That's how I took some of the remarks.The stuff about wars was a joke,As you can see I also joked about America's pencjent for starting wars that we cannot finish.I am truly amazed at how much ATWIAD is loved on this page.But that's cool.As an African American I was trying to get people to understand why Prince was seen as a sellout and certain people abandoned him.This made way for the rise of Hip Hop and the end of Funk Music,Which I clearly regret.

I was/am in America, yeah some people did want PR #2, and ATWIAD threw them, I love the Album, so did my brother and a lot of other fans/friends. So don't speak for all America & definately give African-Americans the respect of having their own individual mind. What? they are supposed to check into black central for the update on what they are supposed to like and dislike?

cdog, reread your posts, why would I assume your joking (via Cyberspace) your writting is very agressively As A Matter of Fact, and there is a post were u state since others are going to be rude with u your going to do the same? So why would I think your just fooling around? And a lot of what your going on is unfactual. This is why you are getting the response your are. Check out http://prince.org/msg/7/370583 The Dance Electric: The album that should have followed

What does your ethnic background have to do with this, People Call Me Rude I Wish We All Were Nude I Wish There Was No Black or White... I mean that just messed me up that your ethnic background is driving this thread?

I guess you just got schooled, because you assumed that all Americans hated ATWIAD & Parade, you've been a member since 2005 I see not posts up until this one, which is probably why ur being assumed as a troll. Anyone who participated in this thread even if in just reading should understand that American Prince fans have serious love for ATWIAD & Parade eras

Prince creating those 2 albums did not open the gates of hell for Hip Hop and close it on Funk

Are you seriously blaming Prince for this? Hip Hop was been around since the early 1970's and was developing thru the whole period RUN DMC UTFO and other groups were already on the scene before ATWIAD & Parade came out

You were age 9 in 1979 and age 9 when Kiss came out?

OldFriends4Sale said:

You were age 9 in 1979 and age 9 when Kiss came out?

He meant KISS the band

NouveauDance said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

You were age 9 in 1979 and age 9 when Kiss came out?

He meant KISS the band

LOL

Mindflux - I'm fine leaving the discussion where it is. I've said what I wanted to say.

fusk said:

Mindflux - I'm fine leaving the discussion where it is. I've said what I wanted to say.

Cool - ain't no thang! And no hard feelings

fusk said:

Mindflux - I'm fine leaving the discussion where it is. I've said what I wanted to say.

No problem, U are a new member as of June, so re read the rules and it puts lot into perspective, I've had to do it myself many a times

Mindflux said:

Cool - ain't no thang! And no hard feelings

OldFriends4Sale said:

No problem, U are a new member as of June, so re read the rules and it puts lot into perspective, I've had to do it myself many a times

s'all good