rdhull said:

These pretzels are making me thirsty.

LOL

Fucking SEINFELD.

this may sound racist but Prince's music would never sound like this if he was white.

and even in his more rock (which people consider white) orientated tracks i always hear some black/ r&bish influence.

also if u wanna say his rock tracks are better then his funk/r&b/soul tracks i also say no they aint.

i mean like he's considered one of the biggest FUNK artists!

I believe theres been no so called 'white music' for the past 60 years in of popular music anyway.

[Edited 10/27/11 4:03am]

2elijah said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Good points,

4 me it's not him doing RnB because he's always had his own style of RnB. It's when the songs feel too easy and sometimes too similar to something else i hear on the radio.

(I'm going 2 sidetrack for a minute and say, when I put together music to listen to, I never really mix Prince music in, there is something about his music that just doesn't 'mix'. I know at a 'house party' a dj can throw Erotic City or DMSR in the mix with other party songs, but his music 4 me just stands alone 'overall' that what in the 1980's and some other later tracks that even the 'nb' or 'rock' doesn't sound like 'rnb' or 'rock'. Most of my Prince playlists consist of Prince music whether by theme or Prince mixed with Proteges)

But for me when I say 'rnb attempts' I'm not refering to him doing 'rnb' style music as much as hearing him do stuff that is so easy for him to do it just doesn't scream Prince 2 me.

I think its like when does covers of a lot of old school soul music. I just don't really care to hear it because that's not him and he has so many other of his own. A Case of U, Just My Imagination, Whole Lot of Love, for me those songs especially the 1st to sound like a "Prince" song. But a lot of the others are fun covers for him to mess with, but he has so much Prince music that he should never have to have sets of covers.

hmmm I actually enjoy 20Ten overall I do.

I often think that many fans get stuck in the "Purple Rain" era Prince, so when they listen to music he did in the 90s or 2000s, it sounds different to them because they don't want to let go of 'pop' or 'rock' Prince who played more of that type music during the 80s. The thing is, he never stopped playing pop or rock after that, he just changed it up a bit, and gravitated to r&b/soul/latin-flavored/funk/funk-rock/soul-pop/ballads, etc. Later down the road he added jazz and spiritually influenced tracks, although he's always had some type of spiritual influence in his music.

Many fans don't seem to want to accept that Prince has always played r&b/soul/love songs, and many of those tracks turned out to be classics, so yes r&b/soul was always 'part of his music, part of Prince'.

It is sad to say that some may see r&b as a lower form of music or a style not as valuable, as pop or rock, and you have to wonder if this was the same thought people had of 'rock', back in the early days when many black musicians/artists introduced rock to American society, in the early 1900s - to late 1950s. During the mid 1950s, some used to refer to rock and roll as 'jungle or race' music, because many blacks, as well as Black musicians were playing that type of music, and listening/dancing to it, so many Americans not familiar with that form of music outside of their culture/racial group, and what they were familiar with and classified/valued as [good and acceptable' music, didn't see 'rock & roll' equally at that level musically.

During those times, segregation/jim crow was around, and many Whites didn't like their teens embracing 'rock and roll' and they often referred to it as 'jungle or race' music. But white kids eventually gravitatedtowards/liking it. Around the 1960s, more White musicians/artists gravitated towards the 'rock'/'rock and roll' style of music, while many Black musicians artists moved away from rock, and towards other forms of music like jazz/r&b/soul/soul pop/blues, etc.

I also think the covers he plays of many r&b/soul tracks are in honor to real music by real musicians, from back in the day, who worked and competed hard musically, and paved the way for today's current artists; although many of the current artists are not as instrumentally gifted, like many artists were back in the day.

He played r&b/soul/latin-flavored/funk/funk-rock/soul-pop/ballads, in the 1980's too

latin flavored ie Sheila E and some of hisother songs

via Wendy(& the Colemans) the Caribbean sounds (playing steele drums during the PR tour and Parade) the sound being heard on New Position and a few others & the Middle Eastern sounds

from the beginning Prince has sung ballads via folk/r&b/disco/soul/rock with touches of New Wave

Prince also has from the beginning had strong 'folk' influences in his music

Little Red Corvette & the Beautiful Ones I Hate U as rock ballads

If I Was Your Girlfriend an rnb love song which just stands alone

Prince added jazz and 'spiritual' styles since Purple Rain ie God 4 the Tears in Your Eyes Old Friends 4 Sale the Parade shows he featured the bands jazzier side especially Lisa & Matts jazz training, Music via Sheila E but mostly Madhouse & the Family has strong jazz leanings (again Madhouse especially being a Prince kinda jazz) (jazz came thru Eric Sheila Lisa)

RnB as a lower form of music, I don't know

I know a lot of his fans love the more 'experimental' Prince vs a more 'commercial' Prince

and that could be were the dislike of certain styles done by Prince comes in.

At times 2 me Prince has music of all different genre on an album whether it be 1999 ATWIAD SOTT or Rainbow Children and it flows and sounds like "prince music" I call it Purple Music

and then he has music on album like Musicology 3121 & Planet Earth that sound more genre specific and doesn't have a cohesive feel.

I think an example of him 'trying' to hard on certain songs to 'stay' hip, is when he had QTip in his video for "Chocolate Box"? It was almost like saying, look someone a bit more relevant to pop culture. I don't know, I would have prefered seeing him in the video or someone unknown. Someone dressed to fit Prince look at the time.

4 me it has nothing 2 do with playing 'black or white' music. Prince developed a 'new' style that is very defined as his own and I like that style it doesn't always come out strong post 1980's but I find it and like it. He does hit n miss more often to me, now.

I still would rather hear Prince cover Prince. Prince plays more than just old school artists, he plays recent artists and has Shelby cover them as well like 'Crazy'

One of my favorite live shows is the Macey's 7.7.2007 show it was a small playlist and it was sexy from beginning 2 end 3121 GlamLife Get on the Boat Guitar etc all these hot Prince songs and then Shelby covers Crazy, it just messed up the flow. If he had her 'cover' A Million Miles or 17 Days that would have been a complete Prince show. It's my personal taste, I just don't like many covers from Prince I love A Case of U Just My Imagination & A Whole Lot of Love those are stand out covers

RicoN said:

I've been thinking about this for a little while now but Prince's best work could be decscribed as pretty 'white' sounding and most of his bad stuff, post '91ish is when he's trying to sound 'black'

perhaps he just needs to start making more white music again....

Discuss!

If by "white" sounding you mean heavy on the electric guitar rocking and by "black" sounding you mean R&B with generous amounts of rap then please refer to Jimi Hendrix, Eminem, Kid Rock and Living Colour to name a few. With almost all music, if you don't know what the performers look like you wouldn't know their race - and you wouldn't care. Good music is good music, nobody owns any particular style.

imago said:

tricky99 said:

Depends on where you stand. Its non-sensical to even say Prince is imitating a trend when he does "black music". He is black after all. So 3121, Old school company, and musicology are less worthy because they seem more "black"?

Who said it's less worthy?

And who said it's less worthy because it's more 'black' ?

I said I think it's more interesting.

The point of my entire post is that he often follows a dirivitive pattern when he does one type of music over the other....Not that it's intrinsically built into that genre that the poutput is naturally going to sound dirivitive. He stands out most when he does hybrid music, which most of his 'white' music would really be, all though one can argue all rock and roll is actually black.

For me, it's more about standing out. For example, The Smiths put their stamp on 'white music' in a very unique and interesting way. Bands like Creed and 7 Mary 3.....not so much. It has very little to do with their skin color, but how they approached their songs.

I think Prince approaches his R&B roots by painting-by-numbers. Again, with some very big exceptions: , Come, and The GOld Experience have ballads that really have a "Prince" stamp on them.

Or maybe you have a general disdain for R&B that makes him doing them seem less "interesting" and more "painting-by-numbers". The 3 songs I listed sound like prince songs to me. Filled with the eccentric things that prince brings to any genre. What I know for sure is that they are not "paint by number" songs that just any ole R&B act does.

What we have here is someone that thinks R&B is a lessor type of music that is easier to do and not as interesting as pop or rock. Dude its just your taste speaking. Some of us have bias we don't even admit to ourselves. that could be your situation.

no music is lesser than any other music, Naplam Death are no less valid that Mozart and Tricky is no less valid than the Smashing Pumpkins (Pumpkin - what a tune, is that white or black?!!)

nothing is lesser!

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

I often think that many fans get stuck in the "Purple Rain" era Prince, so when they listen to music he did in the 90s or 2000s, it sounds different to them because they don't want to let go of 'pop' or 'rock' Prince who played more of that type music during the 80s. The thing is, he never stopped playing pop or rock after that, he just changed it up a bit, and gravitated to r&b/soul/latin-flavored/funk/funk-rock/soul-pop/ballads, etc. Later down the road he added jazz and spiritually influenced tracks, although he's always had some type of spiritual influence in his music.

Many fans don't seem to want to accept that Prince has always played r&b/soul/love songs, and many of those tracks turned out to be classics, so yes r&b/soul was always 'part of his music, part of Prince'.

It is sad to say that some may see r&b as a lower form of music or a style not as valuable, as pop or rock, and you have to wonder if this was the same thought people had of 'rock', back in the early days when many black musicians/artists introduced rock to American society, in the early 1900s - to late 1950s. During the mid 1950s, some used to refer to rock and roll as 'jungle or race' music, because many blacks, as well as Black musicians were playing that type of music, and listening/dancing to it, so many Americans not familiar with that form of music outside of their culture/racial group, and what they were familiar with and classified/valued as [good and acceptable' music, didn't see 'rock & roll' equally at that level musically.

During those times, segregation/jim crow was around, and many Whites didn't like their teens embracing 'rock and roll' and they often referred to it as 'jungle or race' music. But white kids eventually gravitatedtowards/liking it. Around the 1960s, more White musicians/artists gravitated towards the 'rock'/'rock and roll' style of music, while many Black musicians artists moved away from rock, and towards other forms of music like jazz/r&b/soul/soul pop/blues, etc.

I also think the covers he plays of many r&b/soul tracks are in honor to real music by real musicians, from back in the day, who worked and competed hard musically, and paved the way for today's current artists; although many of the current artists are not as instrumentally gifted, like many artists were back in the day.

He played r&b/soul/latin-flavored/funk/funk-rock/soul-pop/ballads, in the 1980's too

latin flavored ie Sheila E and some of hisother songs

via Wendy(& the Colemans) the Caribbean sounds (playing steele drums during the PR tour and Parade) the sound being heard on New Position and a few others & the Middle Eastern sounds

from the beginning Prince has sung ballads via folk/r&b/disco/soul/rock with touches of New Wave

Prince also has from the beginning had strong 'folk' influences in his music

Little Red Corvette & the Beautiful Ones I Hate U as rock ballads

If I Was Your Girlfriend an rnb love song which just stands alone

Prince added jazz and 'spiritual' styles since Purple Rain ie God 4 the Tears in Your Eyes Old Friends 4 Sale the Parade shows he featured the bands jazzier side especially Lisa & Matts jazz training, Music via Sheila E but mostly Madhouse & the Family has strong jazz leanings (again Madhouse especially being a Prince kinda jazz) (jazz came thru Eric Sheila Lisa)

RnB as a lower form of music, I don't know

I know a lot of his fans love the more 'experimental' Prince vs a more 'commercial' Prince

and that could be were the dislike of certain styles done by Prince comes in.

At times 2 me Prince has music of all different genre on an album whether it be 1999 ATWIAD SOTT or Rainbow Children and it flows and sounds like "prince music" I call it Purple Music

and then he has music on album like Musicology 3121 & Planet Earth that sound more genre specific and doesn't have a cohesive feel.

I think an example of him 'trying' to hard on certain songs to 'stay' hip, is when he had QTip in his video for "Chocolate Box"? It was almost like saying, look someone a bit more relevant to pop culture. I don't know, I would have prefered seeing him in the video or someone unknown. Someone dressed to fit Prince look at the time.

4 me it has nothing 2 do with playing 'black or white' music. Prince developed a 'new' style that is very defined as his own and I like that style it doesn't always come out strong post 1980's but I find it and like it. He does hit n miss more often to me, now.

I still would rather hear Prince cover Prince. Prince plays more than just old school artists, he plays recent artists and has Shelby cover them as well like 'Crazy'

One of my favorite live shows is the Macey's 7.7.2007 show it was a small playlist and it was sexy from beginning 2 end 3121 GlamLife Get on the Boat Guitar etc all these hot Prince songs and then Shelby covers Crazy, it just messed up the flow. If he had her 'cover' A Million Miles or 17 Days that would have been a complete Prince show. It's my personal taste, I just don't like many covers from Prince I love A Case of U Just My Imagination & A Whole Lot of Love those are stand out covers

But that's what I said, he played r&b from the beginning of his career and before Wendy & Lisa joined the band. My thing is, too many fans think Prince can't be Prince without W&L and that in itself is not true, which is why I mentioned some fans seem to be 'stuck' in the 'Purple Rain era, and seem to forget who Prince was before the Purple Rain era, as well as, after the 'Purple Rain' era. He didn't limit or just obligate himself to the sounds of the Purple Rain' era.

You mention that he touched on some Caribbean flavors, and I would say moreso when he was with Sheila E, than with any other band members (and possibly Renato), during the 2000s, as salsa/latin-flavors/reggae are all part of the 'Caribbean' sounds. 'Te Amo Corazon', 'Get on the Boat,' 'Lolita' full of Caribbean flavors with a mixture of Central/South American and Hispanic flavors.

It doesn't bother me when he showcases an artist, during his concert, who sings a non-Prince or a Prince track, because it never takes away from it being a Prince show. I bet you know as well as I do though, that if Shelby or any other artist on stage with Prince, sang a Prince track, solo, some of these fans would whine that they only want Prince to sing it, which is silly because it's like they're creating their own limitations around, what they want him to do, instead of appreciating or embracing the idea of him having no problem, letting the 'spotlight' off him for a minute, and let is shine on someone else. Pretty much shows he's not threatened by another artists's talents. He's already established a name written in stone in the music industry, and has a 30-year plus music career and catalogue, so really, what can another artist take away from him, with a music catalogue and career lasting as long his?

Also, some music lovers need to remember that music is born and developed from cultures within many ethnic groups, from various racial groups as a whole, and once that music is introduced to the world, it can be embraced, enjoyed, shared, and even reshaped in many different ways, by musicians/non-musicians I believe this is why people tend to label specific, types of music by race, moreso than realizing it's based on culture. There's also no bars on who is allowed to play, listen or enjoy various forms of music because it's out there for the taking. No matter what form of music is out there, there isn't one form of music 'superior or less superior' than the other, unless some people inject their personal prejudices, and many of us do that from time to time.

For example, some may not like 'rap' music because they don't see it as a form of music and some forms are of an offensive and degrading nature.

I see different froms of rap as poetry, depending on what the message is about. I personally don't like rap with swearing/sexually-explicit/degrading lyrics. Now if it's conscious rap, with the purpose or translating a message or raising awarness regarding a societal ill, now that I can deal with it, and it may even have some swearing in it, depending on what that societal ill is about. But 'disrespectful rapping' for the sake of degradation, in my opinion, has no place in my heart to give respect to.

[Edited 10/27/11 6:46am]

Emancipation89 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Purple Music all the way

re

actually when I listen to P's music.. I also don't see or hear white or black, though I understand your point.

I just see purple, because he's unique.

[Edited 10/27/11 6:46am]

Black or white aside, Prince's strongest material are his Funk and Rock songs. Since Funk is considered to be "Black" music (bullshit, I am a white dude and I am FUNKY as the dunk), and Rock generally considered by those who consider such things as "White" music (more bullshit, Lenny, Jimi, Living Colour, Kings X, Ronald Jones [formerly of The Flaming Lips], Van Hunt, etc...), I'd have to say that Prince's good music>Prince's not-so-good music. Personally, I don't really get into much of his '90s output altogether, so that may render my opinion moot. I am, however, a musician of note in my area and I have played many types of music, rock, reggae, funk, psychedelic, punk... every time, there were elements of other genres mixed in. That's how it works. I'm pretty sure Prince would think the OP was being obstinate.

Dogsinthetrees said:

Black or white aside, Prince's strongest material are his Funk and Rock songs. Since Funk is considered to be "Black" music (bullshit, I am a white dude and I am FUNKY as the dunk), and Rock generally considered by those who consider such things as "White" music (more bullshit, Lenny, Jimi, Living Colour, Kings X, Ronald Jones [formerly of The Flaming Lips], Van Hunt, etc...), I'd have to say that Prince's good music>Prince's not-so-good music. Personally, I don't really get into much of his '90s output altogether, so that may render my opinion moot. I am, however, a musician of note in my area and I have played many types of music, rock, reggae, funk, psychedelic, punk... every time, there were elements of other genres mixed in. That's how it works. I'm pretty sure Prince would think the OP was being obstinate.

I'm sure he wouldn't because as you can see with my other posts my intention is the polar opposite of obstinacy.

It is also my intention to explore the foolishness of labelling music by demographic, it seems like that is only useful to advertisers and other people trying to sell stuff

tricky99 said:

imago said:

Who said it's less worthy?

And who said it's less worthy because it's more 'black' ?

I said I think it's more interesting.

The point of my entire post is that he often follows a dirivitive pattern when he does one type of music over the other....Not that it's intrinsically built into that genre that the poutput is naturally going to sound dirivitive. He stands out most when he does hybrid music, which most of his 'white' music would really be, all though one can argue all rock and roll is actually black.

For me, it's more about standing out. For example, The Smiths put their stamp on 'white music' in a very unique and interesting way. Bands like Creed and 7 Mary 3.....not so much. It has very little to do with their skin color, but how they approached their songs.

I think Prince approaches his R&B roots by painting-by-numbers. Again, with some very big exceptions: , Come, and The GOld Experience have ballads that really have a "Prince" stamp on them.

1) Or maybe you have a general disdain for R&B that makes him doing them seem less "interesting" and more "painting-by-numbers". The 3 songs I listed sound like prince songs to me. Filled with the eccentric things that prince brings to any genre. What I know for sure is that they are not "paint by number" songs that just any ole R&B act does.

What we have here is someone that thinks R&B is a lessor type of music that is easier to do and not as interesting as pop or rock. Dude its just your taste speaking. Some of us have bias we don't even admit to ourselves.2) that could be your situation.

1) Maybe not.

2) It isn't.

Look, I loathe Creed, New-Rock, and most hair bands--that doesn't mean I hate rock or 'white' music.

And I freely admit my prejudices against music or anything else--I've torn country to pieces on other forums. But look at me...defending myself when I new I'd be.

2elijah said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

He played r&b/soul/latin-flavored/funk/funk-rock/soul-pop/ballads, in the 1980's too

latin flavored ie Sheila E and some of hisother songs

via Wendy(& the Colemans) the Caribbean sounds (playing steele drums during the PR tour and Parade) the sound being heard on New Position and a few others & the Middle Eastern sounds

from the beginning Prince has sung ballads via folk/r&b/disco/soul/rock with touches of New Wave

Prince also has from the beginning had strong 'folk' influences in his music

Little Red Corvette & the Beautiful Ones I Hate U as rock ballads

If I Was Your Girlfriend an rnb love song which just stands alone

Prince added jazz and 'spiritual' styles since Purple Rain ie God 4 the Tears in Your Eyes Old Friends 4 Sale the Parade shows he featured the bands jazzier side especially Lisa & Matts jazz training, Music via Sheila E but mostly Madhouse & the Family has strong jazz leanings (again Madhouse especially being a Prince kinda jazz) (jazz came thru Eric Sheila Lisa)

RnB as a lower form of music, I don't know

I know a lot of his fans love the more 'experimental' Prince vs a more 'commercial' Prince

and that could be were the dislike of certain styles done by Prince comes in.

At times 2 me Prince has music of all different genre on an album whether it be 1999 ATWIAD SOTT or Rainbow Children and it flows and sounds like "prince music" I call it Purple Music

and then he has music on album like Musicology 3121 & Planet Earth that sound more genre specific and doesn't have a cohesive feel.

I think an example of him 'trying' to hard on certain songs to 'stay' hip, is when he had QTip in his video for "Chocolate Box"? It was almost like saying, look someone a bit more relevant to pop culture. I don't know, I would have prefered seeing him in the video or someone unknown. Someone dressed to fit Prince look at the time.

4 me it has nothing 2 do with playing 'black or white' music. Prince developed a 'new' style that is very defined as his own and I like that style it doesn't always come out strong post 1980's but I find it and like it. He does hit n miss more often to me, now.

I still would rather hear Prince cover Prince. Prince plays more than just old school artists, he plays recent artists and has Shelby cover them as well like 'Crazy'

One of my favorite live shows is the Macey's 7.7.2007 show it was a small playlist and it was sexy from beginning 2 end 3121 GlamLife Get on the Boat Guitar etc all these hot Prince songs and then Shelby covers Crazy, it just messed up the flow. If he had her 'cover' A Million Miles or 17 Days that would have been a complete Prince show. It's my personal taste, I just don't like many covers from Prince I love A Case of U Just My Imagination & A Whole Lot of Love those are stand out covers

2elijah: But that's what I said, he played r&b from the beginning of his career and before Wendy & Lisa joined the band. My thing is, too many fans think Prince can't be Prince without W&L and that in itself is not true, which is why I mentioned some fans seem to be 'stuck' in the 'Purple Rain era, and seem to forget who Prince was before the Purple Rain era, as well as, after the 'Purple Rain' era. He didn't limit or just obligate himself to the sounds of the Purple Rain' era.

OldFriends4Sale: I was just adding 2 what you were saying, not disputing it. I think from the beginning Prince did a good combination of folk/r&b/rock/disco. I don't really understand how W&L fit into him playing R&B. But it's history that those 2 had a lot of creative chemistry with Prince that I don't think he's had with anyone else. That's another topic though. And I understand what your saying about the Prince + W&L thing. But I personally didn't say anything influenced by W&L with Prince. Over all I try to keep Wendy & Lisa seperate in conversation. Since Lisa joined in 1980, and she had a lot of influence and input with Prince. Yep fans can be stuck, a lot of fans were stuck with the 1999 sounds and said he went white with Purple Rain other didn't like the Parade style wished he would have stayed with Controversy & Dirty Mind and on and on.

2elijah:You mention that he touched on some Caribbean flavors, and I would say moreso when he was with Sheila E, than with any other band members (and possibly Renato), during the 2000s, as salsa/latin-flavors/reggae are all part of the 'Caribbean' sounds. 'Te Amo Corazon', 'Get on the Boat,' 'Lolita' full of Caribbean flavors with a mixture of Central/South American and Hispanic flavors.

OldFriends4Sale:Yep but just pointing out that it was early in his career the mid 80's. As well as latin sound without either of them being so loud that it could be considered Carribean or Latin music. Noon Rendezvous, 17 Days Koo Koo is a song that has a touch of a latin vibe to the music that doesn't scream latin music. And of course La La La He He Hee horns on Cindy C Middle Eastern Around the World in a Day Strange Relationships

A Love Bizarre sound like an influece of other styles but it's hard to put a finger on it, and I

like music like that. Purple Music it's just so unique.

A lot of the later stuff was more straight out Latin music styles vs touches and splashes of those sound in the music. Which made it impossible to label as Latin or even Rap.

2elijah:It doesn't bother me when he showcases an artist, during his concert, who sings a non-Prince or a Prince track, because it never takes away from it being a Prince show.

OldFriends4Sale:that's cool, we just 2 different opinions on that one lol I think it does take away overall but I wouldn't want to go to one of those aftershows were 95% of the music is covers. Give me something your working on possibly or variations of your music. lol yeah I know some people would still complain if she sang a Prince song lead.

2elijah:Also, some music lovers need to remember that music is born and developed from cultures within many ethnic groups, from various racial groups as a whole, and once that music is introduced to the world, it can be embraced, enjoyed, shared, and even reshaped in many different ways, by musicians/non-musicians I believe this is why people tend to label specific, types of music by race, moreso than realizing it's based on culture. There's also no bars on who is allowed to play, listen or enjoy various forms of music because it's out there for the taking. No matter what form of music is out there, there isn't one form of music 'superior or less superior' than the other, unless some people inject their personal prejudices, and many of us do that from time to time.

OldFriends4Sale:I totally agree with that. Different european countries totally soaked up 'black american' Soul music and jazz, rap groups like the Roots have a stronger following in Europe than in the USA

2elijah:For example, some may not like 'rap' music because they don't see it as a form of music and some forms are of an offensive and degrading nature.

I see different froms of rap as poetry, depending on what the message is about. I personally don't like rap with swearing/sexually-explicit/degrading lyrics. Now if it's conscious rap, with the purpose or translating a message or raising awarness regarding a societal ill, now that I can deal with it, and it may even have some swearing in it, depending on what that societal ill is about. But 'disrespectful rapping' for the sake of degradation, in my opinion, has no place in my heart to give respect to.

OldFriends4Sale: A lot of black americans were actually more objective to rap than even white american in the beginning of it, they compared it to RnB and Soul and said it wasn't 'real' music. May dad called it a fad. Early rap music was very tame and playful, later it became more political Afrocentric(early 90's) or violent. There was a huge 'negative' vibe in the music with the West Coast & Gangsta rap stuff.

I remember Dela Reese & Glady's Knight being on, I think the Arsenio Hall show, talking about rap for a minute. Glady's said she liked it and thought it was fun, and Dela said she didn't because music is suppose to be melodic and some other things...

carinemjj said:

Emancipation89 said:

re

actually when I listen to P's music.. I also don't see or hear white or black, though I understand your point.

I just see purple, because he's unique.

There are some songs that when U hear it it just stands out as something different, U can't put your hand on it. It's these songs that make me say Prince had his own style & genre of music that was just unique

I Don't Want 2 Leave U (the Time)

A Love Bizarre (Sheila E)

Screams of Passion (the Family)

Dear Michelangelo (Sheila E)

Mia Bocca (Jill Jones)

Sexuality Tick Tick Bang(1981) Private Joy All the Critics Love U, Irresistable Bitch, Computer Blue, I Would Die 4 U, When Doves Cry, ATWIAD album all together, Parade all together, a lot of the Dream Factory/SOTT music, Alphabet St, Bob George, the Future / the Line

just a few tracks in that catalog that when I hear it it's genre is "Purple Music"

imago said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

There are some songs that when U hear it it just stands out as something different, U can't put your hand on it. It's these songs that make me say Prince had his own style & genre of music that was just unique

I Don't Want 2 Leave U (the Time)

A Love Bizarre (Sheila E)

Screams of Passion (the Family)

Dear Michelangelo (Sheila E)

Mia Bocca (Jill Jones)

Sexuality Tick Tick Bang(1981) Private Joy All the Critics Love U, Irresistable Bitch, Computer Blue, I Would Die 4 U, When Doves Cry, ATWIAD album all together, Parade all together, a lot of the Dream Factory/SOTT music, Alphabet St, Bob George, the Future / the Line

just a few tracks in that catalog that when I hear it it's genre is "Purple Music"

Reads like a list of some of my favourite P. tracks!

[Edited 10/27/11 9:09am]

2elijah said:

OldFriends4Sale: I was just adding 2 what you were saying, not disputing it. I think from the beginning Prince did a good combination of folk/r&b/rock/disco. I don't really understand how W&L fit into him playing R&B. But it's history that those 2 had a lot of creative chemistry with Prince that I don't think he's had with anyone else. That's another topic though. And I understand what your saying about the Prince + W&L thing. But I personally didn't say anything influenced by W&L with Prince. Over all I try to keep Wendy & Lisa seperate in conversation. Since Lisa joined in 1980, and she had a lot of influence and input with Prince. Yep fans can be stuck, a lot of fans were stuck with the 1999 sounds and said he went white with Purple Rain other didn't like the Parade style wished he would have stayed with Controversy & Dirty Mind and on and on.

2elijah:

About the W&L, I didn't mean for my reply to come off as a disupute, just stating he was playing r&b before W&L joined the band. On another note, somehow I never saw "Purple Rain" as particularly 'white'. It has a spiritual vibe to it that reminds me of a black gospel choir sound it some levels of the song, although it does start off with a 'quiet pop vibe'.

As far as fans stuck with the W&L eras, I find that some fans tend to think that was the only time he made good music. I 100% disagree with that. Now of course there are some tracks, I find too 'poppy' for me, but I don't harshly dislike them, just not my type of song, however, I do enjoy 'pop' songs by many artists, whether black or white. There's a UK artist named 'Sky' who sings more pop-related(no soul vibe) songs, whose music I enjoy. She's not that well-known in America, but some of her music landed on movie scores and commercials. I found her on myspace about 5 years ago. Some of her 'pop' songs can be rated on the sam 'pop vibe' as Prince's. Also many people tend to 'ignorantly' lump all Blacks to listening only to 'R&B' when that's impossible, because all Blacks don't come from the same cultures/ethnic groups, and don't even like the same music, even though, as a whole, we share similar ancestors.

OldFriends4Sale:Yep but just pointing out that it was early in his career the mid 80's. As well as latin sound without either of them being so loud that it could be considered Carribean or Latin music. Noon Rendezvous, 17 Days Koo Koo is a song that has a touch of a latin vibe to the music that doesn't scream latin music. And of course La La La He He Hee horns on Cindy C Middle Eastern Around the World in a Day Strange Relationships

A Love Bizarre sound like an influece of other styles but it's hard to put a finger on it, and I

like music like that. Purple Music it's just so unique.

A lot of the later stuff was more straight out Latin music styles vs touches and splashes of those sound in the music. Which made it impossible to label as Latin or even Rap.

2elijah:

Okay, there is a lot of Caribbean music (ballads) that don't have a 'loud' sound, and is Caribbean music, with a mixture of African/Latin vibes, i.e. Jon Lucien and Harry Belafonte come to mind. To me 'Reggae' is just a bite off of Calypso music, that was sung by earlier artists of the Caribbean, and can have a slower or faster beat to it, just like Calypso or Soca can. Just goes to show you how one form of music can bite off another, just like 'Reggaetone' being a combination of 'West Indian/Hispanic' vibes.

Sheila E’s ‘Love Bizarre’ somehow for me, falls along the league of “Dr. Buzzard’s Savannah Band” and “Kid Creole and the Coconuts’ vibe- with a touch of latin American/Caribbean/big band sound. That’s just my opinion, of course others may see if differently.

OldFriends4Sale:that's cool, we just 2 different opinions on that one lol I think it does take away overall but I wouldn't want to go to one of those aftershows were 95% of the music is covers. Give me something your working on possibly or variations of your music. lol yeah I know some people would still complain if she sang a Prince song lead.

2elijah:

Agree somewhat, but somehow another artist on stage with him doesn’t bother me. It just shows me that he’s not a selfish artist, surrounding the spotlight only on himself, when he could, but he’s considerate enough to allow others to share and highlight their talent. It’s as if he’s saying, others did the same for him, so he’s just ‘paying it forward’ so-to-speak. I do think that many of his aftershows does present covers, but he has also presented rarities that he doesn’t play at the larger shows, which is a treat and special for many fans, when he does that.

OldFriends4Sale: A lot of black americans were actually more objective to rap than even white american in the beginning of it, they compared it to RnB and Soul and said it wasn't 'real' music. May dad called it a fad. Early rap music was very tame and playful, later it became more political Afrocentric(early 90's) or violent. There was a huge 'negative' vibe in the music with the West Coast & Gangsta rap stuff.

I remember Dela Reese & Glady's Knight being on, I think the Arsenio Hall show, talking about rap for a minute. Glady's said she liked it and thought it was fun, and Dela said she didn't because music is suppose to be melodic and some other things...

2elijah:

Very true. I didn’t like the disrespectful type rap like I stated, and I do remember many Black Americans opposing it, and even Black radio stations refusal to play that type of music, because it degraded Black women/women in general, and the glorification of gangs, guns, money, and materialism over morals/values and respect was ridiculous, and many older adults feared the influence those images/lyrics would have on our younger generations, and to be honest, a lot of it did affect youth in many black communities, as well as those outside of it, as dressing like a supposed ‘gangsta’ became the ‘look’ for many youth, and it became a popular way of dress. Sadly, many record execs took advantage of many young ‘aspiring’ artists, and moved them towards a ‘gangsta’ type image, because they saw the demand for it from many of America’s youth, and it was making money for record execs/labels, while many of those ‘aspiring’ rappers weren’t making much money from it, other than a handful, that later came away from that ‘image’ they sang about, and now have taken on a more ‘corporate’ appearance. Ironic isn’t it?

Anyway, getting back to Prince as a musician/artist/performer, yes, he is definitely diverse with his music

[Edited 10/27/11 12:39pm]

NouveauDance said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

There are some songs that when U hear it it just stands out as something different, U can't put your hand on it. It's these songs that make me say Prince had his own style & genre of music that was just unique

I Don't Want 2 Leave U (the Time)

A Love Bizarre (Sheila E)

Screams of Passion (the Family)

Dear Michelangelo (Sheila E)

Mia Bocca (Jill Jones)

Sexuality Tick Tick Bang(1981) Private Joy All the Critics Love U, Irresistable Bitch, Computer Blue, I Would Die 4 U, When Doves Cry, ATWIAD album all together, Parade all together, a lot of the Dream Factory/SOTT music, Alphabet St, Bob George, the Future / the Line

just a few tracks in that catalog that when I hear it it's genre is "Purple Music"

Reads like a list of some of my favourite P. tracks!

mmmm I love these songs(types) I

I should have added Power Fantastic & Old Friends 4 Sale 2 that top list, because those are 2 stand out tracks as wll

imago said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Because people can't see past colour.

As an Asian (3% of the US population), I don't ahve to luxury to see past color.

IamtheDJ said:

RicoN said:

I've been thinking about this for a little while now but Prince's best work could be decscribed as pretty 'white' sounding and most of his bad stuff, post '91ish is when he's trying to sound 'black'

perhaps he just needs to start making more white music again....

Discuss!

I don't hear or see black or white when I listen to his music.

Nonsence....its only Purple

Concerning Prince and "white music" vs. "black music" i look at what was on the radio at that time in MN. The black population was small and when he was a kid he listened to AM radio which played a little of every thing that was hot at that time regardless of genre. Prince and the Minneapolis teenagers he grew up with had became a multi-racial and multi-cultural sub society within a predominately white State. They helped foster this and it continues to be that way untill this day. That is expressed in the Dirty Mind album in the Uptown song. And is shown in the Purple Rain movie. My brother and his wife are an interacial couple and they live in MN. Their church is racially diverse and they feel at home having moved from Iowa where they were stared at while walking with their children. I say all of that to make a point. Prince and the MN gang were not only diverse as a gimick, that was the norm for them. I live in the midwest and i allways say the more places you stop on the radio dial tells alot about your racial,ethnic, and class levels of tollerance. not to say you are a biggot if you do not like country or rock or R&B but maybe a little less "worldy". I believe even Prince has a favorite genre but he would never say that. i live near a major market city and there is almost every popular genre represented on my radio. Because we have people from all races in our city which is one of the biggest in the U.S.A. What a child musician hears growing up heavily influences what he will play when he is a man. That is part , not all. But part of what made Prince the musician and cross cultural star he has been. The greatest gift he gave me was the ability to pause and stop more on more statio

RicoN said:

I was referring to stuff like the 'black' charts etc...

If that's the case, When Doves Cry is black AND white music!

Timmy84 said:

And for the record Prince was R&B from the get-go, he just had a smorgasbord of sounds. Like Aretha Franklin or even Jimi Hendrix, he's hard to really categorize.

Since day one, Prince was a r&b artist with serious funk/rock appeal to him. Prince even had a hint of country for a little bit (listen to tracks lik Still Waiting, I Got A Broken Heart Again, & Horny Toad if you don't believe Prince can be country whenever he felt like it!).