OldFriends4Sale said:

Purple Music all the way

Prince's music is music, that doesn't belong to any particular race group, and I doubt he tries to please one group over another. I do think, however, that he has always had 'r&b' asa part of his music history, gives a little of each genre of music (pop/rock/r&b/soul/jazz/funk/blues/salsa-latin flavored/blues/spiritual/blues rock, etc.) to all his fans, because he has such a large fan base from a variety of racial backgrounds/demographics, who are not all pigeon-holed/limited to embracing one form of music. He played a lot of 'pop' and 'rock' in the 80s, because that's where the trend was for many artists, and the interest in 'pop' and 'rock' was not as in demand during the 90s, even today in the 2000s, for many artists. It's good that he never got caught up in 'one' genre of music, which is why he lasted so long.

I also don't think you can weigh whether his pop/rock vs r&b does better than the other, especially since it depends on each fan's individual tastes. He has done well with slow/love ballads/with the falsetto voice. Those songs have often done very well in the r&b market, and it never sounded like he was trying hard, because he sang those songs so easy and comfortably. So it surprises me now when some fans question his r&b attempts in the 2000s, when he has always included r&b as part of "Prince" music. He started out early in his career, with a mixture of pop and r&b at the same time, and the more rock-flavored tracks came later.

I think when many fans are 'surprised' about his choices of music in the 2000s, they tend to forget that some of the types of music he plays or releases on his latest cds were always part of his music history, we're just in a different time now.

I believe in the 80s, 'Pop' or 'poppy-flavored' tracks were more popular then, than it was in the 90s and 2000s.

[Edited 10/26/11 16:43pm]

tricky99 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I with U here.

There is a lot of Prince music to me that just doesn't sound 'black or white' most of this was achieved in the 1980's when a lot of musical fusion was happening.

There are songs like Love or Money which too me harkens to a "Soul" sound but when Prince did this it for some reason sound like "Prince" music not "Soul" music.

And a song like Computer Blue which can almost be a level of "Hard Rock" but when Prince does it it sound like "Prince" music.

In the 1990's a different influence came into his music altogether including rap and a lot of it did sound more like what was being done by everybody else. I still don't care for the rap attempts or the more recent straight forward RnB attempts. Cause it feels like he's trying hard.

I know a lot of people don't like it, but the Rainbow Children is overall his more "Prince" sounding album from beginning 2 end from 1991-2010

Its a fusion of different styles but it's not a specific genre, but it sounds like an 2000 edition of music Princ did in the 1980's. I'm not talking about the message or what's behind the message, but he music

But I have also seen people say on here that TRC was an attempt of Prince to do Jazz or neo-soul. So I don't really get the "he's trying to hard" thing. It really just comes down to do you like it or not. If you don't like it maybe that appears as him "trying too hard".

There are many fans who have a general disdain for R&B and conversely there are fans who think the new Time (I mean original 7) is the best thing since sliced bread because they fall in the prince funk camp.

To get the most out of Prince it's best to be able stretch musically otherwise you miss the whole wonderful genuis of the man

Prince has mingled jazz into his music since Parade era.

the Rainbow Children is a mix of styles, I don't think its a jazz album at all

I think you've mixed a few things I'm saying into one. When I said "he's trying to hard" I'm not talking about the Rainbow Children album, but songs that seem like he's trying to keep up with 'popular music' like on some LotusFlower album songs where he uses that very generic voice modulation thing(I don't know what it's called)

I don't have to accept or like everything he does or attempts at doing, but I do appreciate Prince music that has his own unique style (I think the Rainbow Children) achieved that.

I love ranges of songs like Love or Money & Kiss 2 Computer Blue Lovesexy 2 Rainbow Children Everywhere 2 All the Critics Love U in NY & Strange Relationships... Purple Music

babyjubilation said:

So ppl think Prince's "white music" is the good music and his "black music" is the bad music?

The songs intended for black people = Prince not as his best and just doing nonsense hip hop styles to please black people...and his songs intended for the white crowd=Prince trying to impress white people therefore making really good music? did i get it right?

No, you got it completely wrong.

NouveauDance said:

babyjubilation said:

So ppl think Prince's "white music" is the good music and his "black music" is the bad music?

The songs intended for black people = Prince not as his best and just doing nonsense hip hop styles to please black people...and his songs intended for the white crowd=Prince trying to impress white people therefore making really good music? did i get it right?

No, you got it completely wrong.

I..uh wasn't asking YOU

2elijah said:

Prince's music is music, that doesn't belong to any particular race group, and I doubt he tries to please one group over another. I do think, however, that he gives a little of each genre of music (pop/rock/r&b/soul/jazz/funk/blues/salsa-latin flavored/blues/spiritual/blues rock, etc.) to all his fans, because he has such a large fan base from a variety of racial backgrounds/demographics, who are not all pigeon-holed/limited to embracing one form of music. I also don't think you can weigh whether his pop/rock vs r&b does better than the other, especially since it depends on each fan's individual tastes. He has done well with slow/love ballads/with the falsetto voice. Those songs have often done very well in the r&b market, and it never sounded like he was trying hard, because he sang those songs so easy and comfortably. So it surprises me now when some fans question his r&b attempts in the 2000s, when he's always included r&b as part of "Prince" music. He started out early in his career, with a mixture of pop and r&b at the same time, and the more rock-flavored tracks came later. I think when many fans are 'surprised' about his choices of music in the 2000s, they tend to forget that some of the types of music he plays or releases on his latest cds were always part of his music history, we're just in a different time now.

I believe in the 80s, 'Pop' or 'poppy-flavored' tracks were more popular then, than it was in the 90s and 2000s.

Good points,

4 me it's not him doing RnB because he's always had his own style of RnB. It's when the songs feel too easy and sometimes too similar to something else i hear on the radio.

(I'm going 2 sidetrack for a minute and say, when I put together music to listen to, I never really mix Prince music in, there is something about his music that just doesn't 'mix'. I know at a 'house party' a dj can throw Erotic City or DMSR in the mix with other party songs, but his music 4 me just stands alone 'overall' that what in the 1980's and some other later tracks that even the 'nb' or 'rock' doesn't sound like 'rnb' or 'rock'. Most of my Prince playlists consist of Prince music whether by theme or Prince mixed with Proteges)

But for me when I say 'rnb attempts' I'm not refering to him doing 'rnb' style music as much as hearing him do stuff that is so easy for him to do it just doesn't scream Prince 2 me.

I think its like when does covers of a lot of old school soul music. I just don't really care to hear it because that's not him and he has so many other of his own. A Case of U, Just My Imagination, Whole Lot of Love, for me those songs especially the 1st to sound like a "Prince" song. But a lot of the others are fun covers for him to mess with, but he has so much Prince music that he should never have to have sets of covers.

hmmm I actually enjoy 20Ten overall I do.

RicoN said:

I've been thinking about this for a little while now but Prince's best work could be decscribed as pretty 'white' sounding and most of his bad stuff, post '91ish is when he's trying to sound 'black'

perhaps he just needs to start making more white music again....

Discuss!

There is no such thing as "white" or "black" Prince music. His music has always been a conglomeration of different genres and styles and always will be.

Define black music and white music please. Thanks.

tricky99 said:

imago said:

I think his 'white' music is far more interesting than his 'black' music.

The primary reason is that most of the time, when he's playing with white genres, he's making the music very much his own thing, normally with a heavy dose of black infuence.

But, when he does 'black' music, it's almost as if he's immitating or following a trend. This is not always the case, and there are exceptions. But it seems when he does 'white' music, it done in such a way that folks say, "wow--I've never heard anything like that", but when he does 'black'music, it sounds like he's paying homage or ....immitating.

But then again, LoveSexy is 'black' and probably one of his most interesting albums.

.

[Edited 10/26/11 7:07am]

Depends on where you stand. Its non-sensical to even say Prince is imitating a trend when he does "black music". He is black after all. So 3121, Old school company, and musicology are less worthy because they seem more "black"?

Who said it's less worthy?

And who said it's less worthy because it's more 'black' ?

I said I think it's more interesting.

The point of my entire post is that he often follows a dirivitive pattern when he does one type of music over the other....Not that it's intrinsically built into that genre that the poutput is naturally going to sound dirivitive. He stands out most when he does hybrid music, which most of his 'white' music would really be, all though one can argue all rock and roll is actually black.

For me, it's more about standing out. For example, The Smiths put their stamp on 'white music' in a very unique and interesting way. Bands like Creed and 7 Mary 3.....not so much. It has very little to do with their skin color, but how they approached their songs.

I think Prince approaches his R&B roots by painting-by-numbers. Again, with some very big exceptions: , Come, and The GOld Experience have ballads that really have a "Prince" stamp on them.

I alway see on threads like this request to define white or black music. Lawd yall, let's not play that game.

We know.

But, if the premise is some sort of comment about how these genres embrace other genres or that there is so much depth and breath to each genre today that making such distinctions becomes almost arbitrary, I concede that point.

RicoN said:

I've been thinking about this for a little while now but Prince's best work could be decscribed as pretty 'white' sounding and most of his bad stuff, post '91ish is when he's trying to sound 'black'

perhaps he just needs to start making more white music again....

Discuss!

It's biracial sounding.

Honestly, he's always been heavy on the funk, easy on the pop, with lots of rock thrown in for flavor.

I won't bother to read the other comments because I know somebody is going to, will, or already has GONE OFF!

I just have the hunch to post that gif of that angry black kid right about now.

imago said:

I alway see on threads like this request to define white or black music. Lawd yall, let's not play that game.

We know.

But, if the premise is some sort of comment about how these genres embrace other genres or that there is so much depth and breath to each genre today that making such distinctions becomes almost arbitrary, I concede that point.

Why not? It's a valid question that we should define before going any further. It's not my fault that such a thread was made. If we're going to make such assumptions about race and music, we should clarify.

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

Prince's music is music, that doesn't belong to any particular race group, and I doubt he tries to please one group over another. I do think, however, that he gives a little of each genre of music (pop/rock/r&b/soul/jazz/funk/blues/salsa-latin flavored/blues/spiritual/blues rock, etc.) to all his fans, because he has such a large fan base from a variety of racial backgrounds/demographics, who are not all pigeon-holed/limited to embracing one form of music. I also don't think you can weigh whether his pop/rock vs r&b does better than the other, especially since it depends on each fan's individual tastes. He has done well with slow/love ballads/with the falsetto voice. Those songs have often done very well in the r&b market, and it never sounded like he was trying hard, because he sang those songs so easy and comfortably. So it surprises me now when some fans question his r&b attempts in the 2000s, when he's always included r&b as part of "Prince" music. He started out early in his career, with a mixture of pop and r&b at the same time, and the more rock-flavored tracks came later. I think when many fans are 'surprised' about his choices of music in the 2000s, they tend to forget that some of the types of music he plays or releases on his latest cds were always part of his music history, we're just in a different time now.

I believe in the 80s, 'Pop' or 'poppy-flavored' tracks were more popular then, than it was in the 90s and 2000s.

Good points,

4 me it's not him doing RnB because he's always had his own style of RnB. It's when the songs feel too easy and sometimes too similar to something else i hear on the radio.

(I'm going 2 sidetrack for a minute and say, when I put together music to listen to, I never really mix Prince music in, there is something about his music that just doesn't 'mix'. I know at a 'house party' a dj can throw Erotic City or DMSR in the mix with other party songs, but his music 4 me just stands alone 'overall' that what in the 1980's and some other later tracks that even the 'nb' or 'rock' doesn't sound like 'rnb' or 'rock'. Most of my Prince playlists consist of Prince music whether by theme or Prince mixed with Proteges)

But for me when I say 'rnb attempts' I'm not refering to him doing 'rnb' style music as much as hearing him do stuff that is so easy for him to do it just doesn't scream Prince 2 me.

I think its like when does covers of a lot of old school soul music. I just don't really care to hear it because that's not him and he has so many other of his own. A Case of U, Just My Imagination, Whole Lot of Love, for me those songs especially the 1st to sound like a "Prince" song. But a lot of the others are fun covers for him to mess with, but he has so much Prince music that he should never have to have sets of covers.

hmmm I actually enjoy 20Ten overall I do.

I often think that many fans get stuck in the "Purple Rain" era Prince, so when they listen to music he did in the 90s or 2000s, it sounds different to them because they don't want to let go of 'pop' or 'rock' Prince who played more of that type music during the 80s. The thing is, he never stopped playing pop or rock after that, he just changed it up a bit, and gravitated to r&b/soul/latin-flavored/funk/funk-rock/soul-pop/ballads, etc. Later down the road he added jazz and spiritually influenced tracks, although he's always had some type of spiritual influence in his music.

Many fans don't seem to want to accept that Prince has always played r&b/soul/love songs, and many of those tracks turned out to be classics, so yes r&b/soul was always 'part of his music, part of Prince'.

It is sad to say that some may see r&b as a lower form of music or a style not as valuable, as pop or rock, and you have to wonder if this was the same thought people had of 'rock', back in the early days when many black musicians/artists introduced rock to American society, in the early 1900s - to late 1950s. During the mid 1950s, some used to refer to rock and roll as 'jungle or race' music, because many blacks, as well as Black musicians were playing that type of music, and listening/dancing to it, so many Americans not familiar with that form of music outside of their culture/racial group, and what they were familiar with and classified/valued as [good and acceptable' music, didn't see 'rock & roll' equally at that level musically.

During those times, segregation/jim crow was around, and many Whites didn't like their teens embracing 'rock and roll' and they often referred to it as 'jungle or race' music. But white kids eventually gravitatedtowards/liking it. Around the 1960s, more White musicians/artists gravitated towards the 'rock'/'rock and roll' style of music, while many Black musicians artists moved away from rock, and towards other forms of music like jazz/r&b/soul/soul pop/blues, etc.

I also think the covers he plays of many r&b/soul tracks are in honor to real music by real musicians, from back in the day, who worked and competed hard musically, and paved the way for today's current artists; although many of the current artists are not as instrumentally gifted, like many artists were back in the day.

[Edited 10/26/11 18:46pm]

smoothcriminal12 said:

imago said:

I alway see on threads like this request to define white or black music. Lawd yall, let's not play that game.

We know.

But, if the premise is some sort of comment about how these genres embrace other genres or that there is so much depth and breath to each genre today that making such distinctions becomes almost arbitrary, I concede that point.

Why not? It's a valid question that we should define before going any further. It's not my fault that such a thread was made. If we're going to make such assumptions about race and music, we should clarify.

You'll never get a clarification...lol I doubt anyone who makes a thread like this is looking for one. People always gotta put a color on something. It's annoying.

And for the record Prince was R&B from the get-go, he just had a smorgasbord of sounds. Like Aretha Franklin or even Jimi Hendrix, he's hard to really categorize.

Timmy84 said:

And for the record Prince was R&B from the get-go, he just had a smorgasbord of sounds. Like Aretha Franklin or even Jimi Hendrix, he's hard to really categorize.

Agree with bolded part, plus "I Wanna Be Your Lover" was one of his 1st R&B hits, during the earliest part of his music career.

Timmy84 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Why not? It's a valid question that we should define before going any further. It's not my fault that such a thread was made. If we're going to make such assumptions about race and music, we should clarify.

You'll never get a clarification...lol I doubt anyone who makes a thread like this is looking for one. People always gotta put a color on something. It's annoying.

Oh I'll probably get a clarification, just a terrible one. Unfortunately in this world we live in anything done predominantly by blacks is black and anything done predominantly by whites is white. Music isn't like that at all. Nothing is. It never is that black and white. (pun intended )

Timmy84 said:

You'll never get a clarification...lol I doubt anyone who makes a thread like this is looking for one. People always gotta put a color on something. It's annoying.

^^ What he said.

chocolate1 said:

Timmy84 said:

You'll never get a clarification...lol I doubt anyone who makes a thread like this is looking for one. People always gotta put a color on something. It's annoying.

^^ What he said.

I "third" this.

Prince's best music was a combination of white and black influences. In fact most of best stuff I.E: Parade, Sign O' Times, Dirty Mind ECT. were greatly influenced by BLACK musicians

smoothcriminal12 said:

imago said:

I alway see on threads like this request to define white or black music. Lawd yall, let's not play that game.

We know.

But, if the premise is some sort of comment about how these genres embrace other genres or that there is so much depth and breath to each genre today that making such distinctions becomes almost arbitrary, I concede that point.

Why not? It's a valid question that we should define before going any further. It's not my fault that such a thread was made. If we're going to make such assumptions about race and music, we should clarify.

ok, play that game and see where this goes.

I know what the OP is talking about. Everyone else does too. Trying to discuss race is like trying to describe the Toa on prince.org. It's just a bunch of keyboard commandos talking circles.

Anyways, I've stated my opinions. Others are free to disagree.

I remember once I posted a thread about R&B music or something to that affect and some black dude went on a 3 paragraph diatribe about how R&B was black music any which way you cut it. He broke it down pretty well in my opinion.

But I find it higly dissegenuous when people say they don't know what black music is. Oh please, you know. What you're really trying to say in some cases is that black music often defies simple catagorizations, that it encompasses a wide breath of influences, or that it is not confined to one race of people. Fine fine.... but yall know what black music is when people say "black" music. Within the scope of the OP's original question, I doubt the thread requires such nuances or justifies a higher esoteric dissection.

It's like when Prince says, "Dancing like a whitegirl...." in Dinner with Delores. Can anyone here not tell me they got a specific image in their head by that line? It's like like we're all hollering, "How does a white woman really dance? White folks have mad dance moves that can't be confined!"... nope. We know.

I know where this thread is going though.

~carve it up~

[Edited 10/26/11 19:42pm]

imago said:

I remember once I posted a thread about R&B music or something to that affect and some black dude went on a 3 paragraph diatribe about how R&B was black music any which way you cut it. He broke it down pretty well in my opinion.

But I find it higly dissegenuous when people say they don't know what black music is. Oh please, you know. What you're really trying to say in some cases is that black music often defies simple catagorizations, that it encompasses a wide breath of influences, or that it is confined to one race of people. Fine fine.... but yall know what black music is when people say "black" music. Within the scope of the OP's original question, I doubt the thread requires such nuances or justifies a higher esoteric dissection.

It's like when Prince says, "Dancing like a whitegirl...." in Dinner with Delores. Can anyone here not tell me they got a specific image in their head by that line? It's like like we're all hollering, "How does a white woman really dance? White folks have mad dance moves that can't be confined!"... nope. We know.

I know where this thread is going though.

~carve it up~

I'm just saying...we aren't all the same. A lot of whites can get down too.

smoothcriminal12 said:

imago said:

I remember once I posted a thread about R&B music or something to that affect and some black dude went on a 3 paragraph diatribe about how R&B was black music any which way you cut it. He broke it down pretty well in my opinion.

But I find it higly dissegenuous when people say they don't know what black music is. Oh please, you know. What you're really trying to say in some cases is that black music often defies simple catagorizations, that it encompasses a wide breath of influences, or that it is confined to one race of people. Fine fine.... but yall know what black music is when people say "black" music. Within the scope of the OP's original question, I doubt the thread requires such nuances or justifies a higher esoteric dissection.

It's like when Prince says, "Dancing like a whitegirl...." in Dinner with Delores. Can anyone here not tell me they got a specific image in their head by that line? It's like like we're all hollering, "How does a white woman really dance? White folks have mad dance moves that can't be confined!"... nope. We know.

I know where this thread is going though.

~carve it up~

I'm just saying...we aren't all the same. A lot of whites can get down too.

Oh, I completely agree. We're not all the same. Prince's brand of rap can never be confused with Q-tip or Tupac.

Being Aisan myself, I'm always astounded everyone thinks I have an intrinsic connection or understanding of what Koreans, Japanese, Tawainese, think and say is a bit perpostrous. But when someone says, "He looks Asian," I pretty much know what they're talking about.

imago said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

I'm just saying...we aren't all the same. A lot of whites can get down too.

Oh, I completely agree. We're not all the same. Prince's brand of rap can never be confused with Q-tip or Tupac.

Being Aisan myself, I'm always astounded everyone thinks I have an intrinsic connection or understanding of what Koreans, Japanese, Tawainese, think and say is a bit perpostrous. But when someone says, "He looks Asian," I pretty much know what they're talking about.

Because people can't see past colour.

smoothcriminal12 said:

imago said:

Oh, I completely agree. We're not all the same. Prince's brand of rap can never be confused with Q-tip or Tupac.

Being Aisan myself, I'm always astounded everyone thinks I have an intrinsic connection or understanding of what Koreans, Japanese, Tawainese, think and say is a bit perpostrous. But when someone says, "He looks Asian," I pretty much know what they're talking about.

Because people can't see past colour.

As an Asian (3% of the US population), I don't ahve to luxury to see past color.