....and all the other record companies out there?

Just from the outside looking in [and being totally unaware of the actual facts!] P really is coming across as being just as bad as the record companies he battles against. Worst still he's pissing all over those that were friends and lovers. All the recent nonsense he's put The Time and The Family through has been more than well documented and IMHO he really sees issues such as artistic freedom, owning your masters etc as a one way street that leads only to him.

Anyways, that's just [an obvious] observation - chip in if you want to!.

Come on P, be generous and treat your fellow artists well and please do not base this on their looks!.

funkyhead said:

....and all the other record companies out there?

Just from the outside looking in [and being totally unaware of the actual facts!] P really is coming across as being just as bad as the record companies he battles against. Worst still he's pissing all over those that were friends and lovers. All the recent nonsense he's put The Time and The Family through has been more than well documented and IMHO he really sees issues such as artistic freedom, owning your masters etc as a one way street that leads only to him.

Anyways, that's just [an obvious] observation - chip in if you want to!.

Come on P, be generous and treat your fellow artists well and please do not base this on their looks!.

Good point!

funkyhead said:

....and all the other record companies out there?

Just from the outside looking in [and being totally unaware of the actual facts!] P really is coming across as being just as bad as the record companies he battles against. Worst still he's pissing all over those that were friends and lovers. All the recent nonsense he's put The Time and The Family through has been more than well documented and IMHO he really sees issues such as artistic freedom, owning your masters etc as a one way street that leads only to him.

Anyways, that's just [an obvious] observation - chip in if you want to!.

Come on P, be generous and treat your fellow artists well and please do not base this on their looks!.

Hmm. It is a bit different. For the most part, all of Prince's acts are simply an extension of Prince. They are, by in large, his songs, his concepts, his ideas. Why wouldn't he want control over that? It is the same reason he fought with WB. He wants what is his. Sure, a strong argument could be made the Morris Day should own a part of The Time. The fact is, Prince is/was the boss. That's how it goes.

I feel like this...if anyone here was/is not part of or in the same room during a meeting he's had with any of his former associates, i.e. band members, proteges, groups he's put together in the past or was/is the fly that sat on the wall, during those meetings to witness what took place, then I take it as just one side of the story being told or hearsay. So no, I guess I can't agree that Prince is similar to the likes of some record exec(s) at WB, unless I witnessed it myself.

'hear' edit

[Edited 10/17/11 10:21am]

KnoW.

skywalker said:

funkyhead said:

....and all the other record companies out there?

Just from the outside looking in [and being totally unaware of the actual facts!] P really is coming across as being just as bad as the record companies he battles against. Worst still he's pissing all over those that were friends and lovers. All the recent nonsense he's put The Time and The Family through has been more than well documented and IMHO he really sees issues such as artistic freedom, owning your masters etc as a one way street that leads only to him.

Anyways, that's just [an obvious] observation - chip in if you want to!.

Come on P, be generous and treat your fellow artists well and please do not base this on their looks!.

Hmm. It is a bit different. For the most part, all of Prince's acts are simply an extension of Prince. They are, by in large, his songs, his concepts, his ideas. Why wouldn't he want control over that? It is the same reason he fought with WB. He wants what is his. Sure, a strong argument could be made the Morris Day should own a part of The Time. The fact is, Prince is/was the boss. That's how it goes.

Margie Cox had a career before Prince. Prince couldn't be arsed to release the stuff they recorded together, yet he also prevented her from going on. Oh, and this happened while Prince was bitching about "CONtracts" in interviews.

That's just one of many examples of Prince screwing over people.

Go ask Tony M and Levi Seacer Jr, who had to sue to get Prince to pay them money he owed them -- and then Prince just dragged the court case on and on until they had to settle for $80,000 which barely covered the costs of the lawyers.

Prince is a spoiled man-brat. That's part of why we love him. God help anybody on the other end of a contract with Prince.

funksterr said:

Prince is a spoiled man-brat. That's part of why we love him. God help anybody on the other end of a contract with Prince.

that includes suppliers / contractors who have worked for P/ Paisley Park. There seems to be an endless list of people he has screwed.

i really hope that the Time / Original 7seven succeed and 'stick it to the man' as it will be as big a statement of talent and ability to stand on its own 2 feet. Seems like their project is heading for success anyway - with Jam and Lewis on the case I'd expect them to do well. Let's hope that P doesn't find a way to piss on the parade.

I couldn't give a crap if the Time and the Family had to use new names. The fact the new names totally suck is interesting, though. Shows you how many notches below him they are in creativity at least.

That being said, Prince is a complete douchebag when it comes to business affairs. He is entirely stupid about it. He doesn't respect anyone, doesn't chase the right enemies, and doesn't actually do a damn thing to benefit his brand.

When Prince stops caring so much about being flagrant about his wealth, he'll make good music again. But until then, he will do like the big labels do and put out a bunch of inept, lame-brain music that caters to his caviar tastes.

Personally, I wish Prince would get really fucked over in a relationship or he would lose a ton of money. Last time those things happened to him, he seemed to be on fire for several years. He needs some real shit to happen anymore, otherwise his life is full of zero experiences to shed any light and has no stories to fuckin' tell.

funksterr said:

God help anybody on the other end of a contract with Prince.

I couldn't agree more...

Though there are many who have been allegedly 'screwed over', think of the ones who have dodged a bullet by NOT signing a contract with him..

Spinlight said:

I couldn't give a crap if the Time and the Family had to use new names. The fact the new names totally suck is interesting, though. Shows you how many notches below him they are in creativity at least.

That being said, Prince is a complete douchebag when it comes to business affairs. He is entirely stupid about it. He doesn't respect anyone, doesn't chase the right enemies, and doesn't actually do a damn thing to benefit his brand.

When Prince stops caring so much about being flagrant about his wealth, he'll make good music again. But until then, he will do like the big labels do and put out a bunch of inept, lame-brain music that caters to his caviar tastes.

Personally, I wish Prince would get really fucked over in a relationship or he would lose a ton of money. Last time those things happened to him, he seemed to be on fire for several years. He needs some real shit to happen anymore, otherwise his life is full of zero experiences to shed any light and has no stories to fuckin' tell.

Maybe he doesn't want to get involved with these projects (The Time & The Family ) because WB still own some rights to them also. Although they were Prince's projects ,he still had to go through WB for the final approval and i'm sure they still own those Masters.

funkyhead said:

....and all the other record companies out there?

Just from the outside looking in [and being totally unaware of the actual facts!] P really is coming across as being just as bad as the record companies he battles against. Worst still he's pissing all over those that were friends and lovers.

he put those friends n lovers on the map..all with his material and vision

bobbyperu said:

hmmmmm... I guess he had a CONtract with them, to use a phrase he was fond of using.

Hopefully this is an apt comparison for argument's sake since Morris has been using his touring band all the years prior to now as The Time. There is only one original member of The Temptations still living as well as one member of The Four Tops. If either of them wants to go on tour using the group name, I'm sure he'll have to get permission from Motown otherwise he will be sued. This is why another prominent member, Dennis Edwards uses the name Temptations Review featuring Dennis Edwards so as not to cause confusion in the public. The same is true for the original members of The Mary Jane Girls, if they wanted to reform they would have to seek permission from Rick James's estate plus Motown to use the name. If they're denied then of course you have the name change. Prince may very well be a prick but he's doing what most business entity's would do to protect a brand name .

bobbyperu said:

Spinlight, you're contradicting yourself. You say Prince isn't a good business man and then you blame him for being flagrant about his wealth. But if he's wealthy, he must have made some good business decisions! Money doesn't come falling out of the sky! But I agree that having some life experience would make for better songwriting. Songs don't come falling out of the sky either.

Bad business doesn't always mean low income. Bad business can also be shady business, fucked up business, immoral business, and cruel business which are the types of businesses Prince delves in.

I could not care less that Prince is rich and wears diamond-encrusted everything. Look at the nutcases who spend several hundred dollars, if not thousands, to see the fool. Don't you think he likely rakes in the cash? Greedy sob.

This isn't strictly about money,it's about ego (surprise,surprise)

Bottom line: Prince doesn't want these guys to do an album without his involvement.He's a notorious control freak.It always has to be about HIM and when it's not,he gets pissed.So when the guys decided to do this album without him,he retaliates by refusing to let them use the name.This is just another example of his paranoid ego rearing its ugly head again.We've seen this scenario play out many,many times throughout the years.After all these years and after all the drama he went through with Warners,you would think that he would be more understanding and supportive of his old buddies as they try to move on with their careers.

funkyhead said:

i really hope that the Time / Original 7seven succeed and 'stick it to the man' as it will be as big a statement of talent and ability to stand on its own 2 feet. Seems like their project is heading for success anyway - with Jam and Lewis on the case I'd expect them to do well. Let's hope that P doesn't find a way to piss on the parade.

I'm ecstatic about their new album.Gonna go to Best Buy on my lunch break to pick it up There are some explosive funk jams on this album!

skywalker said:

funkyhead said:

....and all the other record companies out there?

Just from the outside looking in [and being totally unaware of the actual facts!] P really is coming across as being just as bad as the record companies he battles against. Worst still he's pissing all over those that were friends and lovers. All the recent nonsense he's put The Time and The Family through has been more than well documented and IMHO he really sees issues such as artistic freedom, owning your masters etc as a one way street that leads only to him.

Anyways, that's just [an obvious] observation - chip in if you want to!.

Come on P, be generous and treat your fellow artists well and please do not base this on their looks!.

Hmm. It is a bit different. For the most part, all of Prince's acts are simply an extension of Prince. They are, by in large, his songs, his concepts, his ideas. Why wouldn't he want control over that? It is the same reason he fought with WB. He wants what is his. Sure, a strong argument could be made the Morris Day should own a part of The Time. The fact is, Prince is/was the boss. That's how it goes.

If we were to let them use the name,what damage would it do to him? I mean,he would STILL have ownership of the songs and albums that he wrote and produced for them.If those albums are ever reissued,he would STILL get paid.I just don't see how allowing them to call themselves "The Time" would hurt his pocketbook in any way.It's like I said above....this isn't just about money,it's about ego.It's a ridiculous stance for him to take,anyway.Everyone knows that these guys are THE TIME,regardless of what they're forced to call themselves.

purpledoveuk said:

The one thing Im surprised Prince does do quite a bit, especially with his gripe about WB and the industry, is play God with protégés careers...seems needlessly spiteful.

Everything is cool as long as they shut up,don't ask any questions and let him take total control The moment when they decide to take control of their destiny,that's when he gets pissed and retaliates.

seems to me there was a deal that morris would give prince the rights to a morris song called 'party up' and prince would give morris a band called THE TIME

so prince went back on that deal

it is very common belief that those who have money usually get it by doing some pretty evil acts

in the case of prince .. the record company treated prince like a slave and considered him "work for hire" .. as in saying prince would never have written those songs if not for the record company and there for the record company own all the rights and masters

i would agree that prince takes a similar approach to his collaborators, insisting that because prince is in the room prince "wrote" the song and "owns" the song .. even tho others contributed to its creation .. prince acts as tho all other input is merely "work for hire" on his songs, when often his best and most profitable work is collaborative

prince creates the illusion of giving credit to his protiges by not crediting himself on those non prince records, but behind the scenes, ensures that prince gets all the money

prince creates the illusion of being a one man super genius by not giving credit to those who wrote the songs that appear on prince records, and refusing to allow his band to appear on record on many of the songs they worked on and wrote during rehearsals with prince

I am sure some of this attitude came from WB. Often a rec company will pressure artists to streamline credits and thus payments to something simple like .. just prince .. or just lennon and mccartney, even tho giving that credit is a false representation of who actually wrote the music .. less people to pay, less legal crap to figure out every time some random musician gives you a good idea

there are a lot of bands and musicians that have been signed by record companies that got dropped after years of work, never to have a record released .. seem to happen a lot .. prince seems to do the same with some of his artists for his vanity labels over the years .. part of it may be just poor choices by prince, but part of it may be the nature of the business

all in all, prince would do well spiritually to share the wealth he has accumulated from others hard work and contributions to his empire, but then he would not be able to live like a spoiled brat anymore from that profitable era, he would have to put out good music that he made all by himself to live in that much luxury. and he just does not have the songwriting abilities to do that all by himself anymore. so he is stuck between righting the wrong and living like a normal person, and he won't choose the latter, obviously

the record biz is all about promoting a star and blowing smoke up that stars ass .. its not about promoting a huge team of people and paying them all fairly .. what ruffles prince feathers is for him, the star, to be considered work for hire. even tho he doesn't mind the perks of treating his posse and collaborators like work for hire, he didn't realize until much later that he was being treated the same way. he got fooled into thinking he was much more important to the record company than he actually was, so they could get the quality work for hire out of him that they did. he figured out what was done to him, but never figured out what he in turn did to others in the same vein.

SoulAlive said:

Co-sign this right here. Folks on the outside looking in can say what they want but we don't know the business side of it.

kae510 said:

Maybe he doesn't want to get involved with these projects (The Time & The Family ) because WB still own some rights to them also. Although they were Prince's projects ,he still had to go through WB for the final approval and i'm sure they still own those Masters.

TrevorAyer said:

seems to me there was a deal that morris would give prince the rights to a morris song called 'party up' and prince would give morris a band called THE TIME

so prince went back on that deal

it is very common belief that those who have money usually get it by doing some pretty evil acts

in the case of prince .. the record company treated prince like a slave and considered him "work for hire" .. as in saying prince would never have written those songs if not for the record company and there for the record company own all the rights and masters

i would agree that prince takes a similar approach to his collaborators, insisting that because prince is in the room prince "wrote" the song and "owns" the song .. even tho others contributed to its creation .. prince acts as tho all other input is merely "work for hire" on his songs, when often his best and most profitable work is collaborative

prince creates the illusion of giving credit to his protiges by not crediting himself on those non prince records, but behind the scenes, ensures that prince gets all the money

prince creates the illusion of being a one man super genius by not giving credit to those who wrote the songs that appear on prince records, and refusing to allow his band to appear on record on many of the songs they worked on and wrote during rehearsals with prince

I am sure some of this attitude came from WB. Often a rec company will pressure artists to streamline credits and thus payments to something simple like .. just prince .. or just lennon and mccartney, even tho giving that credit is a false representation of who actually wrote the music .. less people to pay, less legal crap to figure out every time some random musician gives you a good idea

there are a lot of bands and musicians that have been signed by record companies that got dropped after years of work, never to have a record released .. seem to happen a lot .. prince seems to do the same with some of his artists for his vanity labels over the years .. part of it may be just poor choices by prince, but part of it may be the nature of the business

all in all, prince would do well spiritually to share the wealth he has accumulated from others hard work and contributions to his empire, but then he would not be able to live like a spoiled brat anymore from that profitable era, he would have to put out good music that he made all by himself to live in that much luxury. and he just does not have the songwriting abilities to do that all by himself anymore. so he is stuck between righting the wrong and living like a normal person, and he won't choose the latter, obviously

the record biz is all about promoting a star and blowing smoke up that stars ass .. its not about promoting a huge team of people and paying them all fairly .. what ruffles prince feathers is for him, the star, to be considered work for hire. even tho he doesn't mind the perks of treating his posse and collaborators like work for hire, he didn't realize until much later that he was being treated the same way. he got fooled into thinking he was much more important to the record company than he actually was, so they could get the quality work for hire out of him that they did. he figured out what was done to him, but never figured out what he in turn did to others in the same vein.

Exactly. Your entire post should be a sticky.