electricberet said:

rdhull said:

I kind of agree with this in that I think Prince only cared about the ones who would "get it" and "get him" to liisten to it.

I don't think so. "Dance On" and "Positivity" are about violence, poverty, and education--the same social issues he tackled on SOTT. He specifically challenges Detroit about the problems there. Didn't he want people to get that message--not just his most devoted fans, but everyone?

As for Prince calling the album cover a "mirror," that's another way of saying, "it's not a bad cover, you just don't appreciate its beauty." Which is exactly what you'd say if you made a mistake and didn't want to admit it.

[Edited 9/30/11 11:06am]

Like saying "folks didn't get Wizard Of Oz until decades letter" when he referred to Graffitti Bridge to an interviewer.

tricky99 said:

electricberet said:

I get it. You're a deconstructionist. I happen to believe in objective reality and the objective reality is that Lovesexy has a shitty cover.

U are presenting yourself as a moron.

Ah. Now I understand. Because I am a moron, I look into the Lovesexy mirror and see a bad photo of a self-absorbed individual. If I were pure of heart, I would see a beautiful person in that mirror. So I only need to become a better person and I will truly appreciate the beauty of the Lovesexy cover.

At least, when I look into the mirror, I see that I have very smooth legs. That gives me some comfort.

rdhull said:

tricky99 said:

U can agree or disagree with Prince but he is always "saying something". I can't believe that any fan that has been following his career would believe that his music does not contain a philosopy. U might not agree with it but it is certainly always present.

Your analogy really makes no sense. Why deny the controversy? It certainly had nothing to with whether it was good or bad art.

Im not saying his music didn't contain a philosophy, Im saying that the philosophy was either bullshit, made up for only marketing, or a total sham. Hell..yall taught me that.

Why would you think it is "bullshit" or "made up" or a "total sham"? Isn't it just more likely that Prince is just presenting the "views" that he holds at the time of composition? In general when people present a philosopy in their art they are trying to project their "best selves".

tricky99 said:

rdhull said:

Im not saying his music didn't contain a philosophy, Im saying that the philosophy was either bullshit, made up for only marketing, or a total sham. Hell..yall taught me that.

Why would you think it is "bullshit" or "made up" or a "total sham"? Isn't it just more likely that Prince is just presenting the "views" that he holds at the time of composition? In general when people present a philosopy in their art they are trying to project their "best selves".

No because he didnt believe them even then at the time of composition. I made a post about it already a long time ago and caught hell for it.

electricberet said:

tricky99 said:

U are presenting yourself as a moron.

Ah. Now I understand. Because I am a moron, I look into the Lovesexy mirror and see a bad photo of a self-absorbed individual. If I were pure of heart, I would see a beautiful person in that mirror. So I only need to become a better person and I will truly appreciate the beauty of the Lovesexy cover.

At least, when I look into the mirror, I see that I have very smooth legs. That gives me some comfort.

I never said you were a moron. Reading is fundamental. Again you reveal yourself with your retorts. I said none of that.

tricky99 said:

electricberet said:

Ah. Now I understand. Because I am a moron, I look into the Lovesexy mirror and see a bad photo of a self-absorbed individual. If I were pure of heart, I would see a beautiful person in that mirror. So I only need to become a better person and I will truly appreciate the beauty of the Lovesexy cover.

At least, when I look into the mirror, I see that I have very smooth legs. That gives me some comfort.

I never said you were a moron. Reading is fundamental. Again you reveal yourself with your retorts. I said none of that.

are you really going to go that "semantics" route? really tricky?

rdhull said:

tricky99 said:

Why would you think it is "bullshit" or "made up" or a "total sham"? Isn't it just more likely that Prince is just presenting the "views" that he holds at the time of composition? In general when people present a philosopy in their art they are trying to project their "best selves".

No because he didnt believe them even then at the time of composition. I made a post about it already a long time ago and caught hell for it.

How would you know that? Did Prince say to rdhull that he didn't believe anything he said or has ever said? And when you say he didn't believe "them" what do mean? Prince has said alot of things. Which are "them"?

rdhull said:

tricky99 said:

I never said you were a moron. Reading is fundamental. Again you reveal yourself with your retorts. I said none of that.

are you really going to go that "semantics" route? really tricky?

Yes really.

tricky99 said:

rdhull said:

are you really going to go that "semantics" route? really tricky?

Yes really.

then your points to eberet are rendered moot (sp?)

Eh the cover's alright. Definitely not great but not totally awful either. Besides he made worse covers as time went on.

tricky99 said:

rdhull said:

No because he didnt believe them even then at the time of composition. I made a post about it already a long time ago and caught hell for it.

How would you know that? Did Prince say to rdhull that he didn't believe anything he said or has ever said? And when you say he didn't believe "them" what do mean? Prince has said alot of things. Which are "them"?

He didnt exactly "say" them to me, but he has to others and its on record..we all have and know about them..but Im not going to get into it

I mean it doesn't make him a bad person , that's not what Im saying (Prince, hon', you know how I do, chill)...

the same cover is also featured in art books about great album covers.

This is by far his worst album cover

[img:$uid]http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/14000/Prince-album--14498.jpg[/img:$uid]

I believe some art interested would say it's kitsch. And that's not always a bad thing, even though it usually is seen as tasteless non art. Using ancient techniques and forms to create something not of taste is often referred to as kitsch. That pose he did there looks like a copy of something that has been done billions of times, mainly portraiting women. A somewhat hairy man with a little makeup, long hair, and huge flowers with a white and innocent background however, is not what people saw every dayt at the time, and is tasteless to many. And most of us wonder what was going on inside the mans head at that time.

tricky99 said:

rdhull said:

are you really going to go that "semantics" route? really tricky?

Yes really.

Since tricky99 seems to be a deconstructionist, his posts have no fixed meaning anyway. Like the Lovesexy mirror, his posts only mean what we see in them.

Prince must have been reading Derrida when he conceived his Lovesexy visual masterpiece. (Or was the photo someone else's idea?)

[Edited 9/30/11 11:54am]

[img:$uid]http://www.webexhibits.org/colorart/i/michelangelo-creation-adam-.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DsWg3eWsxQU/Ta4lkExQlgI/AAAAAAAAAiA/21bcSmvipFc/s1600/Michelangelo-Ignudi.jpg[/img:$uid]

ufoclub said:

[img:$uid]http://www.webexhibits.org/colorart/i/michelangelo-creation-adam-.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DsWg3eWsxQU/Ta4lkExQlgI/AAAAAAAAAiA/21bcSmvipFc/s1600/Michelangelo-Ignudi.jpg[/img:$uid]

That arm underneath the Adam figure is disturbing me. It reminds me of War of the Worlds.

ufoclub said:

[img:$uid]http://www.webexhibits.org/colorart/i/michelangelo-creation-adam-.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DsWg3eWsxQU/Ta4lkExQlgI/AAAAAAAAAiA/21bcSmvipFc/s1600/Michelangelo-Ignudi.jpg[/img:$uid]

That was pretty much the influences for the Lovesexy cover for sure.

Timmy84 said:

ufoclub said:

[img:$uid]http://www.webexhibits.org/colorart/i/michelangelo-creation-adam-.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DsWg3eWsxQU/Ta4lkExQlgI/AAAAAAAAAiA/21bcSmvipFc/s1600/Michelangelo-Ignudi.jpg[/img:$uid]

That was pretty much the influences for the Lovesexy cover for sure.

Right. Prince looked at the Sistine Chapel and thought, "Wouldn't this look better if Adam was sitting on a flower with a stamen shaped like an erect human penis, and clutching his chest instead of touching God?"

electricberet said:

Timmy84 said:

That was pretty much the influences for the Lovesexy cover for sure.

Right. Prince looked at the Sistine Chapel and thought, "Wouldn't this look better if Adam was sitting on a flower with a stamen shaped like an erect human penis, and clutching his chest instead of touching God?"

No, no! Clutching his chest symbolizes that God is to be found within our own souls.

Okay...maybe he had spicy food for lunch.

ufoclub said:

the same cover is also featured in art books about great album covers.

Yep!

Art is subjective, but the cover has definatly been featured on books devoted to best album covers of all time.

Genesia said:

electricberet said:

Right. Prince looked at the Sistine Chapel and thought, "Wouldn't this look better if Adam was sitting on a flower with a stamen shaped like an erect human penis, and clutching his chest instead of touching God?"

No, no! Clutching his chest symbolizes that God is to be found within our own souls.

Okay...maybe he had spicy food for lunch.

Maybe he was trying to express milk from his breast to show his femininity.

V10LETBLUES said:

ufoclub said:

the same cover is also featured in art books about great album covers.

Yep!

Art is subjective, but the cover has definatly been featured on books devoted to best album covers of all time.

I hope those books weren't compiled by serious art critics.

electricberet said:

V10LETBLUES said:

Yep!

Art is subjective, but the cover has definatly been featured on books devoted to best album covers of all time.

I hope those books weren't compiled by serious art critics.

I wish them heaven

electricberet said:

Timmy84 said:

That was pretty much the influences for the Lovesexy cover for sure.

Right. Prince looked at the Sistine Chapel and thought, "Wouldn't this look better if Adam was sitting on a flower with a stamen shaped like an erect human penis, and clutching his chest instead of touching God?"

That's right.

I believe Prince was not trying to be sexual with this pose or expression. That's why he said what he did about the cover later on. This is a pose of peaceful surrender and he's putting his hand over his heart, almost like he can't help it in the face of whatever heavenly experience this depicts. And the brightness, clean look, giant flowers form a contemporary representation of Heaven or more likely a new Garden of Eden. There's even a breeze blowing his hair. The stamen penis head was apparantly a detail the photographer/director wanted.

Honestly, you DON'T think it ended up being a reference to a Michaelangelo type image? Even in light of what the album is supposed to be? I think adding the penis head in there is just like him adding the x-rated part at the end of the title song. Completely the same sort of funny shot of sex despite the godly theme.

Yes, Prince putting his hand over his heart and looking up into the power of his god in a heavenly setting is definitely him trying to create that religious vibe for his anti-aggression album. And his overgrown eyebrows, and being nude all keep in line with the theme. Stamen was apparently Modine's idea.

Here's some info I found:

Photography Jean-Baptiste Mondino 
Typography Margo Chase 
Record Co. Paisley Park/Warner Bros. 1988

When Mondino was staying at Prince's Paisley Park Studios in Minneapolis while working on a video project* for him, Prince asked him if he was still taking photographs and would he be interested in doing the cover. 
*(this would suggest that all the singles that got released had their videos filmed prior 2 heading out on a world tour ~ nana.)

When Jean-Baptiste Mondino began the Lovesexy photo-session he must have thought that he was dealing with a case of 'The Emperor's New Clothes'. Circumstance had not permitted him and his client to discuss how intimate the pictures were going to be. 

When Prince arrived there was some confusion over whether he was to pose nude for the portrait because the studio contained a wardrobe full of costumes for him to wear. The question was finally resolved, and the result is a very daring and sensuous portrait. The pose is feminine, yet the flower stamen suggests ideas of ambiguous sexuality. Was it all a case of bare-faced cheek?

Lovesexy was already the name of the album when Prince comissioned Mondino to photograph the cover. Mondino felt the title reflected Prince's sprituality, as well as his lyrics about love and sex. Lovesexy also feels like a Tantric word, and Mondino wanted the stamen of one of the flowers to represent a small phallus.

Prince wanted the photographs taken in Los Angeles and told Jean-Baptiste Mondino that they could discuss ideas on the flight. Unfortunately, Mondino was unable to get a seat next to Prince, so they were unable to discuss anything. The next morning (the day of the photo-shoot) Mondino suggested to Prince that he would like to shoot him naked.

Mondino shot one roll of Kodak Ektachrome film using a Hasselblad camera. Later that day he met Prince at his hotel and showed him the contact sheets. Prince chose one shot for the album cover, and the rest were destroyed.

At the time of this album, digital paint boxes were still a thing of the future. None existed in the US, so Mondino flew to Paris where his friend Kiki had a demonstration model. Mondino played around with a photograph for a couple of days and when he was satisfied he called Prince, who flew over to Paris with his bodyguard. They all sat squashed into Kiki's tiny kitchen, with Kiki's kids playing around them, and examined the cover. Prince's initial response was that he didn't like it. For two hours they played around with it some more until Prince concluded that he preferred what he had seen at the beginning.

rdhull said:

electricberet said:

I hope those books weren't compiled by serious art critics.

I wish them heaven

Like I said, art is subjective. No shame in liking or hating it. That's the way it goes.

V10LETBLUES said:

rdhull said:

I wish them heaven

Like I said, art is subjective. No shame in liking or hating it. That's the way it goes.

I agree

ufoclub said:

electricberet said:

Right. Prince looked at the Sistine Chapel and thought, "Wouldn't this look better if Adam was sitting on a flower with a stamen shaped like an erect human penis, and clutching his chest instead of touching God?"

That's right.

I believe Prince was not trying to be sexual with this pose or expression. That's why he said what he did about the cover later on. This is a pose of peaceful surrender and he's putting his hand over his heart, almost like he can't help it in the face of whatever heavenly experience this depicts. And the brightness, clean look, giant flowers form a contemporary representation of Heaven or more likely a new Garden of Eden. There's even a breeze blowing his hair. The stamen penis head was apparantly a detail the photographer/director wanted.

Honestly, you DON'T think it ended up being a reference to a Michaelangelo type image? Even in light of what the album is supposed to be? I think adding the penis head in there is just like him adding the x-rated part at the end of the title song. Completely the same sort of funny shot of sex despite the godly theme.

Yes, Prince putting his hand over his heart and looking up into the power of his god in a heavenly setting is definitely him trying to create that religious vibe for his anti-aggression album. And his overgrown eyebrows, and being nude all keep in line with the theme. Stamen was apparently Modine's idea.

Here's some info I found:

Photography Jean-Baptiste Mondino 
Typography Margo Chase 
Record Co. Paisley Park/Warner Bros. 1988

When Mondino was staying at Prince's Paisley Park Studios in Minneapolis while working on a video project* for him, Prince asked him if he was still taking photographs and would he be interested in doing the cover. 
*(this would suggest that all the singles that got released had their videos filmed prior 2 heading out on a world tour ~ nana.)

When Jean-Baptiste Mondino began the Lovesexy photo-session he must have thought that he was dealing with a case of 'The Emperor's New Clothes'. Circumstance had not permitted him and his client to discuss how intimate the pictures were going to be. 

When Prince arrived there was some confusion over whether he was to pose nude for the portrait because the studio contained a wardrobe full of costumes for him to wear. The question was finally resolved, and the result is a very daring and sensuous portrait. The pose is feminine, yet the flower stamen suggests ideas of ambiguous sexuality. Was it all a case of bare-faced cheek?

Lovesexy was already the name of the album when Prince comissioned Mondino to photograph the cover. Mondino felt the title reflected Prince's sprituality, as well as his lyrics about love and sex. Lovesexy also feels like a Tantric word, and Mondino wanted the stamen of one of the flowers to represent a small phallus.

Prince wanted the photographs taken in Los Angeles and told Jean-Baptiste Mondino that they could discuss ideas on the flight. Unfortunately, Mondino was unable to get a seat next to Prince, so they were unable to discuss anything. The next morning (the day of the photo-shoot) Mondino suggested to Prince that he would like to shoot him naked.

Mondino shot one roll of Kodak Ektachrome film using a Hasselblad camera. Later that day he met Prince at his hotel and showed him the contact sheets. Prince chose one shot for the album cover, and the rest were destroyed.

At the time of this album, digital paint boxes were still a thing of the future. None existed in the US, so Mondino flew to Paris where his friend Kiki had a demonstration model. Mondino played around with a photograph for a couple of days and when he was satisfied he called Prince, who flew over to Paris with his bodyguard. They all sat squashed into Kiki's tiny kitchen, with Kiki's kids playing around them, and examined the cover. Prince's initial response was that he didn't like it. For two hours they played around with it some more until Prince concluded that he preferred what he had seen at the beginning.

Regarding the inspiration, it's quite possible that Mondino was thinking of the Sistine Chapel or Michaelangelo when he came up with this idea. But it came out as kitsch or worse. From what you've learned, Prince personally approved the photo and presumably went along with the concept. Perhaps if the "phallus" was positioned differently it wouldn't look as bad.

This story reminds me of how the Beatles ended up having a photo of themselves covered in blood and chopped up baby dolls as the original cover of Yesterday and Today:

http://www.kpbs.org/news/...cher-cover

Mondino must have been smoking the same weed as Robert Whitaker when he came up with the Lovesexy cover.

V10LETBLUES said:

rdhull said:

I wish them heaven

Like I said, art is subjective. No shame in liking or hating it. That's the way it goes.

There may be no shame in liking bad art but that doesn't mean there's no difference between good art and bad art. We all understand that when it comes to music: the vast majority of people here (if they were being honest) would admit that SOTT is a better work of art than Rave. But somehow visual art is all equally good or bad depending on your point of view? I respectfully dissent.

To me, the album cover represents what Prince was trying to do -- declare that his decade-long "sexual v. spiritual" war was ending, and the latter had won the day. I think I've heard others say it's his anti-drug testament but I don't think that's the case.

The album is a free-flowing and funky sermon on God, sex, and the state of the world.

I think that album flopping commercially and to a lesser extent artistically really affected his work from there on out. And the cover had a lot to do with it.