New topic
Printable| Author | Message |
Prince's African origins I've been recently to Africa and I loved the experience. I met some people from several ethnic groups: Peul, Toucouleur, Serer an Wolof.
I'd like to know if anybody can identify, mostly African people, just by seeing Prince's face which ethnic african group he belongs to.
I tried with his old pictures of the seventies. I know he's got many different mixed heritages.
Thank you. | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
Very unlikely. The blood line has been so deluded throughout the centuries. In Kenya I noticed the same thing, you can tell the difference between peoples like Kikuyu and Kalenjin, but it would take a lot of research to find out exactly where a black American's ancestors come from. There's a documentary about this subject on Dutch tv now where the presentor, who is from Surinam, traced his roots to the Ashanti in Ghana. But you wouldn't tell from looking at him. But where exactly have you been? What was it like? I love travel stories! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
It’s actually not impossible to determine or recognize which African, ethnic group, many from various Black, African ethnic groups belong to based on some facial features, although there is no one 'standard' look that defines all Africans from African ethnic groups. Some features stand out more than others. I find that I can often tell if someone is from Ghana or Ethiopia, because of specific, facial features that are more present within specific ethnic groups, moreso than in others. This doesn’t mean everyone from a specific, African ethnic group will have those specific features that are recognizable, so-to-speak, but some are more present/easier to recognize than others.
However, it would be almost impossible to determine the African roots of Black Americans (including those from the Caribbean) who are descendants of Africans and Africans who were enslaved in America and the Caribbean (also not omitting those from other parts of the world), just by ‘looking at them’ regardless of their various complexions. A DNA test would have to be taken to determine which African ethnic group(s), they or their family may be connected to. Not to mention that because there were many Africans from various, ethnic groups within the Transatlantic slave trade, it would not be uncommon, that many Black Americans have ‘several’ African ethnicities within their ancestry.
Also, despite how many centuries have passed, doesn’t ‘dilute’ one’s African ancestry, that’s a fallacy, especially if you’re talking about the era during the transatlantic slave trade which is basically less than 700 years ago.
It's also a fact that Black Americans/Black Caribbeans have more than one racial/ethnic group flowing in their DNA, besides the many African ethnicities they carry within their DNA, and that DNA includes other racial/ethnic groups anywhere from European/Native American/Asian; they can carry either one or more of the DNA from one of these groups, [Edited 9/28/11 12:30pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Sometimes you can have an idea if you consider body types and statures With Prince....I'm thinking Pygmy maybe | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
It's not really possible to know because just about all the African cultures were mixed during slavery. But mostly all from north east Africa countries. [Edited 10/5/11 7:42am] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Out of Africa -- but From Which Tribe?By Darryl Fears
Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, October 19, 2006
When DNA testing was offered as a way to trace black family heritage three years ago, it seemed, at long last, that African Americans whose histories were lost in the transatlantic slave trade had found a way home.
TV talk-show host Oprah Winfrey took a test that linked her to the Kpelle people of what is now Liberia. Composer Quincy Jones was informed that he is a likely descendant of the Mbundu or Kimundu tribe in present-day Angola, and Harvard University professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. was told that his ancestry is Nubian. Each test was conducted by African Ancestry Inc., a Washington firm that claims exclusive rights to the most comprehensive database of DNA sequences from Africans.
African Ancestry executives say this large database makes it possible to pinpoint a person's origin to a specific region and sometimes tribe. "It can be done," said Gina Paige, a co-owner of the company. "We don't always just find one group. We tell the client what we find. We determine our results based on the frequency of matches."
But ever since the tests began in 2003, questions have been raised about their accuracy, specifically whether tracing mitochondrial DNA -- which is passed from the mother's side of the family -- can reliably pinpoint a person's tribal origins.
Those doubts were given a public voice this week with the publication of an article in a British peer review journal. It said a study found that fewer than 10 percent of black Americans whose mitochondrial DNA was identified matched perfectly with a single African ethnic group, and 40 percent had no match. The authors relied on a study that compared DNA sequences from 170 African Americans with DNA sequences from 3,700 Africans who live below the Sahara. "The finding . . . suggests that few African Americans might be able to trace their . . . lineages to a single ethnic group," the article said.
At best, said the article's co-author, Bert Ely, a professor of biological sciences at the University of South Carolina, the test can give people only a probability that they hail from a specific region on the African continent rather than a specific ethnic group. "What I think is going on is that a company is choosing a maximum-likelihood approach to pick the best outcome" for black Americans seeking their roots, said Ely, who has his own genetic testing company and is a competitor of African Ancestry. "It's not a valid way to draw a conclusion."
Some researchers, while having qualms with African Ancestry's claims, say DNA testing is useful when combined with other genealogical tracing tools, such as historical records, folklore and archeology. "It's probably true that most of the time you're not going to find an exact match," said Jason Eshelman, a molecular anthropologist, who founded Trace Genetics, another DNA testing company, "but there is other information you can tease out to suggest origin."
The popularity of the African Ancestry test and the debate over its claims demonstrate just how emotionally charged the issue of black Americans' lost history is. The yearning of many African Americans to know more of their origins was evidenced by the huge audience generated by the 1977 TV miniseries "Roots," which told of the author's lineage from the African Kunta Kinte. But some scientists such as Ely, though sympathetic to the quest of African Americans to discover their antecedents, say probability of hailing from a region should not be confused with certainty of descending from a specific tribe. Officials at African Ancestry counter that when it comes to a history-starved race, probability is a good enough place to start.
"It was hard until now to know where I came from in Africa, and the information that my ancestry test has given me is a tool kit that I can use with courthouse records," said Michael Darden, a spokesman for the company. "Knowing that is better than nothing."
Most black Americans descend from West Africa, where the vast majority of slaves were seized. After surviving the brutal transatlantic voyage to the Americas, they were forbidden from speaking the tribal languages from regions that are now known as Angola, Senegal, Ghana, Liberia, the Ivory Coast and Nigeria.
Millions of family histories were lost as hundreds of ethnic Africans blended into a single group. Mitochondrial DNA can point the way home. While it makes up a tiny fraction of all DNA found in a cell, its link to maternal roots is crucial for black Americans. The maternal side of a black family almost always goes back to Africa, as opposed to the Y chromosome of the father. Thirty percent of Y-chromosome tests in black Americans lead to Europe, the origin of white men who fathered mixed-race slaves -- often from rape.
African Ancestry is owned by Rick Kittles, who obtained exclusive rights to the most extensive database of individual African DNA sequences in the world. Kittles has refused to share his database, angering other researchers who have a much smaller pool of information from which to draw.
On its Web site, African Ancestry asserts that three years ago it was the first to offer testing. Its client list includes actors Whoopi Goldberg, Isaiah Washington, LeVar Burton and Chris Tucker; film director Spike Lee; and former U.N. ambassador Andrew Young. But, Eileen Krause, a post-lab quality assurance manager at Family Tree DNA of Houston, another genetics testing company, sided with Ely, saying a test result from mitochondrial DNA "doesn't necessarily mean that you are from this tribe or that tribe." Linking individuals to a tribe is "something that concerns us," Krause said. "We are not comfortable seeing a person get a result that might not be valid. We feel it's unethical. We're not going to wage war or anything like that, but we don't like it." Gates, who worked with Ely and Kittles for his PBS documentary, "African American Lives," said they are honest men who disagree. But, he added, DNA testing without a historical analysis is useless.
"You can't use the test results alone without contextualizing it," he said. "These DNA tests are confusing, and you can get a confusing result. Without context, they can be misleading."
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
https://youtu.be/CVwv9LZMah0 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
eros said: Sometimes you can have an idea if you consider body types and statures With Prince....I'm thinking Pygmy maybe Not funny.  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
eros said: Sometimes you can have an idea if you consider body types and statures With Prince....I'm thinking Pygmy maybe Not funny. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
^Sorry for posting it twice, I messed up. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
No worries. When you don't have a case, yell RACE! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Would be very interesting to find out. Especially for me as well, would love to know But with all love to Prince, I'd agree with the Pygmy comment lol Yes, at 19, I finally saw the Revolution, a legendary band. And I talked to Wendy!!!  In addition to seeing Prince, I have now lived life. Thank you Purple People!! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Bolded part. Not true. Many Black Americans have African ancestors from all over the African continent they are not aware of, from West, East, South and North Africa. Yes many of the Africans who were enslaved and taken out of Africa, were among various Africans from different ethnic groups, when they were sold and transported to what is now America/the Caribbean, as well as when they were transported to various parts of Europe, and other places around the globe, during the transatlantic slave trade;but it is not impossible to find out which African ethnic group many Black Americans belong to. It just takes some DNA testing and research, to find out which areas those ethnic groups inhabited back then, as well as today. Not to mention you will find non-African ethnicities in many Black Americans (which it seems is a topic that goes ignored-maybe intentionally or on the basis of miseducation, ignorance or fear of discovery of what many may not be prepared to embrace or accept that many Blacks are carrying the DNA of other racial groups involved in the slave trade). So one should not be surprised in this day and age, when they see a 'multitude of light-skinned/dark-skinned complexions among Black Americans' . It is not uncommon or unusual and doesn't take away from their personal right individually or on a whole, to identify themselves as they choose, racially or ethnically. It's just that many people(including many Blacks from various cultural/ethnic groups) are either uneducated or ignorant about the many lineages common among Blacks as a whole, whether in or outside of America. It is quite surprising, that in 2011 many people are still undeducated or questioning the ethnicity of Black Americans, and not aware that the majority of them carry the DNA of more than just that of African ethnic groups, when the information is out there about this and not hidden. [Edited 10/5/11 9:51am] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Prince is the child of a father with both black and philliphine blood, his mother was half black and half italian. So that makes him half black, a quarter asian and a quarter european, to put it bluntly.
But does that matter in the end?
Most modern day americans are of mixed heritage. It accounts for the very light skinned ones, and the very dark skinned ones and of course all the skin tones in between.
And STILL people seem to make an 'issue' out of it: still you get people saying he is not acting 'black' enough, or he did ignore his african-american fans with albums like Around the World in a day and Parade. Or: he did 'betray' the black community by dating lighter-skinned or latino women.
Americans seem so obsessed with idea's about race and ethicity, that it becomes laughable. Really, i have never seen this kind of discussions over here in Europe when it comes to judging Prince on his virtues as an artist. And please spare me the shit about racism in american society. Racism goes both and several ways. Just by claiming Prince should act like this or that because he is 'black' is racist itself: his african origin in the end is as as nondescript as the dutch origin of Bruce Springsteen or the italian background of Lady Gaga.
| |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Prince is not the son of mixed parents or two parents from two different racial groups-both his parents are Black Americans. Of course as explained 'all' Black Americans carry the lineage of various racial/ethnic groups, including those of African ethnic groups (regardless of how fair-skinned or dark-skinned they are), in their DNA; this is a fact and has been researched. However this is not taking away from any of their African ethnicities or watering-down their heritage as a whole or how they choose to personally identify themselves, based on their culture/society. If more people take the time to research black ethnic groups/cultures/ethnic groups, they would know this about Black Americans by now.
Also, don't fall for the okey doke that you heard about some blacks not seeing Prince as Black enough or ignoring black americans, especially when a lot of his songs have touched on historical/societal and political ills/matters that have affected the Black community as a whole/ within society. That's not ignoring them, that's acknowledging what many experienced. But some people will take the hearsay/rumors and spread it anyway they want, when their homework isn't done, and the fact that there are some that would rather he steers clear of discussing, singing or touching those particular issues or subject matter in his songs or when interviewed...yes I went there, and not afraid to say it.
Oh and about the 'race issues in American society' no, that isn't just an American thing, it's a global issue on many levels. Hope this info helps. [Edited 10/5/11 13:05pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Oh please, spare me your crap.
Prince IS the kid of parents with a mixed heritage.
But that isnt the issue. The issue is certain (groups of) people are trying to claim the individual Prince for their own agenda.
One of them is you: your are always busy in here trying to spread uber-political correct views about racial issues, that doesnt mean you are right.
Its like you are copying and pasting lines and phrases you have learned through some shallow study about race-issues in here. I have debatted in the last days with some other person, who did act just as dogmatic and unpersonal as you..... you might like eachother, you know: offering a lot of pharagraphs of dogmatic mumbo-jumbo about 'race', doesnt make you right.
I notice you are NEVER able to react on threads dealing with (Prince's) ethnicity or skin-colour by speaking from your heart / your own experience / your own views, its always lot of paragraphs copied and pasted from literature with a rather smallminded and negative views on these kind of issues. You might get some people along with your misplaced 'whining', but definitely not me.
| |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Is Prince maybe less afro-american to you, when you realise he is off mixed heritage or something? Is he less a 'tool' for your agenda then? to show 'black' people are misthreatened.
And why can you be so ignorant and stupid to shallow down your views to 'black' vs 'white'.
As i said, we dont really care about it in Europe, i doubt the USA cares about it....
But you are making a fool of yourself, how charming...
| |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
What exactly are you angry about in what I stated and what exactly am I not speaking from my heart about, regarding Prince's racial background? The information I stated about his parents have been documented. So why get upset with me over it? Furthermore why would you be angry because I said his parents are Black Americans, and the fact that I already gave you some information regarding various ancestries/ethnicities of Black Americans, not leaving out all the ethnicities they are possibly connected to? You brought up all that other hearsay about what some Blacks have said about him, so if that doesn't matter, as you stated, then you should accept him for who he is as a human being, regardless of his racial background.
Futhermore, I don't copy and paste my opinions from someone else's literature on any topic [Edited 10/5/11 13:52pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
What I post on any forum here, comes directly from my own views and mind, from what I've researched/studied. That's quite a stereotypical assumption you've made of me though.
To answer your first question, "No". [Edited 10/5/11 14:08pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
The facts are:
Prince's dad was half philipine, half black, his mother was half black, half italian.
So IMO he is a person with mixed heritage. Like the majority of americans (black or white) are nowadays.
You are one of the people here trying to 'push' the individual Prince in some agenda about racial issues.
Just as much as i despice the stupid igorance shown by the KKK, i despice the misplaced policor behaviour by some black people in here. Black people can be racist too.
| |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
You simply arent honest or authentic 2elijah, you are acting secondary, based on prejudices and dogmatic crap, afro-american study material...
| |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Nope not at all. I find that there are many Black Americans who are uneducated about their own ethnicity and will only embrace their Black African ancestry, not aware they hold the lineages of other racial groups as well. Well, I took the time to educate myself about it and researched further than my African ancestry. I embrace all of who I am and all the ethnicities that I hold. My thing is this..if you want to know who you are, you have to know where you came from, and embrace all of who you are, and you can't do that without taking the time to research and learn about it. Well, that's what I've been doing for the past few years, and have nothing to apologize to anyone for, because of the information I choose to share with others on this. I think you took the wrong attitude towards my sharing this information with you, and resulted in insulting me and making false accusations against my statements, but I have no reason to give that type of attitude and rudeness to you, nor am I goind to be angry at you for the way you reacted to me or the accusations/assumptions you've made of me. So I will leave you with whatever you choose to believe about me. Nice talking to you, Have a good day. [Edited 10/5/11 14:18pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
You are the kind of person who seems to be obsessed with the background of black americans.. for whatever reason?
I am a white dutch guy living in the Netherlands, a country which has been invaded and conquered constantly in the past by the italians (the romans), germans, the spanish, the french and yet again by german people... all over a period of 2000 years, but do i use that past as some excuse or explanation device for my current behaviour? Nope, i am an individual living nowadays, and past events only 'hit' my culture, but not me as an individual.
More and more i get the idea the past of afro-american people gets 'cultified' by a certain group of people who seem to lack common sense. Instead of blaming issues on your racial background, why dont you get a life, like the Irish, Korean, Polish etc. immigrants do?
| |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Riverman37 said: The facts are:
Prince's dad was half philipine, half black, his mother was half black, half italian.
So IMO he is a person with mixed heritage. Like the majority of americans (black or white) are nowadays.
You are one of the people here trying to 'push' the individual Prince in some agenda about racial issues.
Just as much as i despice the stupid igorance shown by the KKK, i despice the misplaced policor behaviour by some black people in here. Black people can be racist too.
It seems that you are projecting. The sad reality of your comnents here reveal that you must convince yourself that Prince is in fact of immediate mixed racial heritage as a means to justifying to yourself your personal appreciation of his genius | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I dont make such an issue about Prince's racial background.
The fact that bringing up Princes mixed heritage, leads to people saying things like: no, no he is afro-american or black just like us, tell's me enough.
Racism is a power-tool: you have white people putting down others, but at the same time you have black people trying to put people into their camp, to make a difference.
I rather use my common sense.
| |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Riverman37 said: I dont make such an issue about Prince's racial background.
The fact that bringing up Princes mixed heritage, leads to people saying things like: no, no he is afro-american or black just like us, tell's me enough.
Racism is a power-tool: you have white people putting down others, but at the same time you have black people trying to put people into their camp, to make a difference.
I rather use my common sense.
I beg to differ....in regards to the part about you and common sense anyway Please share any support you have to your claim | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Riverman37 said: You are the kind of person who seems to be obsessed with the background of black americans.. for whatever reason?
I am a white dutch guy living in the Netherlands, a country which has been invaded and conquered constantly in the past by the italians (the romans), germans, the spanish, the french and yet again by german people... all over a period of 2000 years, but do i use that past as some excuse or explanation device for my current behaviour? Nope, i am an individual living nowadays, and past events only 'hit' my culture, but not me as an individual.
More and more i get the idea the past of afro-american people gets 'cultified' by a certain group of people who seem to lack common sense. Instead of blaming issues on your racial background, why dont you get a life, like the Irish, Korean, Polish etc. immigrants do?
I'm not an immigrant. I'm a native-born American citizen and I'm living that wonderful thing called life right now. I think your views of Americans in general, feeds into your lack of knowledge of them, as well as, your lack of understanding,of American Blacks and their various cultures and ethnic groups that exists among them within the American population. From the anger you portray towards my comments, displays one with an already pre-conceived and unsupported, stereotypical notion of what you don't comprehend, outside of your own views, so you've leaned towards insulting me, and making false accusations, in relation to what I have posted, researched and shared with you. Yet you continue to draw your own stereotypical assumptions of Black Americans in general, with absolutely nothing 'credible' to support your stereotypical claims about them. I get the impression you're more angry about the information I shared which was intended to educate you, about the plethora of beautiful etnicities that exists among Black Americans. I never realized you would be that upset about the information I shared with you on this topic, but you chose to degrade me instead, so it doesn't make sense to discuss this with you any further, *Update edit* [Edited 10/5/11 18:28pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Wow. This is getting a whole lot more interesting than I first thought. Me too, regardless of my org-name, that was chosen just for fun, I'm a Dutch guy, in other words coming from a country that was heavily involved in the slave trade. I've been to Africa lots of times, even married an African wife for a while (but that's a different story) and race never was an issue. Many African-Americans use this phrase "you gotta know where you're coming from" or something like that, which I understand. Their ancestors were Africans but they don't know who they were. But this may be something that applies to more Americans. They come from all over the place. I once read this interview with a Lakota woman who said: I have a tribe. They are just Americans. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
You simply arent honest or authentic 2elijah, you are acting secondary, based on prejudices and dogmatic crap, afro-american study material.
You sure about that? It seems you have some warped idea that I'm some black revolutionist..
If you claim you've read my posts relating to African/African-American culture/studies, etc. as well as my posts on the origins/history of humans,then you would have known who and where my sources of information came from on all these topics I posted about. I have never hesitated to share who my sources were/are, and have posted that info for the past 7 years in the P&R forum, whenever I was engaged in a related topic on this, and with that being said I will gladly supply my sources of information to you.
Below are the experts in the field of human genetics, DNA research, Anthropology,etc., Their research/studies/projects are based on various people/ethnic groups in ancient and modern Africa, including around the globe. This is where my sources of information have come from on the topic of race/origins/history of humans. You will find documentaries, books, research projects they've all worked on/published.
Like I said, if you claim you've read my posts on this topic, then you would have known that I never hesitated to list who my source of information have been. You can also do a search of previous threads in the past I posted on this info. So if you claim the information I post is 'based on prejudices and dogmatic crap' as you falsely accuse me of, then apparently you feel the same way about the individuals I listed as my longtime and current sources of information on this topic. You are welcome to challenge and review their research/findings/projects at your leisure:
My favorite and whose work I most admire and respect is the first one:
http://bigthink.com/spenc...ea_id=1285
http://news.nationalgeogr...ey_of_man/
2) Dr. Stephen Oppenheimer, DNA expert http://www.bradshawfounda...heimer.php
3) Dr. Alice Roberts
http://www.alice-roberts.co.uk/
[Edited 10/5/11 20:45pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
when did his dad get half asian? and he said he was just goofing about the italian thing in that interview ages ago. when did these things become FACT.
i wouldnt argue that his is a mixed bag, my dads father was from new orleans and was "classified' as an octoon or whatever, and he looked similiar to princes people. Prince #MUSICIANICONLEGEND | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
A lot of black Americans are mixed but I don't agree that all of us have blood related to people from West Africa. I'm sure it's more widespread than that. By the way, it ain't just black folks that were born in Africa, it's just as mixed as Asia, Europe, the Caribbean, South/Central America and North America. Who knows what Prince is mixed with but it was never confirmed he had Italian roots, nor was it confirmed that his father is half Asian. It was likely either rumors or stuff to be goofing about as waves said. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |