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Reply #90 posted 08/25/11 3:33pm

madhouseman

In all of my research, I have found nothing to indicate that Stevie was ever asked to write the lyrics for Purple Rain. I think that there is a little embellishment going on there, but I'd love to be proven wrong. I've seen no indication of Prince recording the song earlier in any of the studio notes I've seen or with any of the interviews from the Revolution or the others that were in the studio. There is always the possiblity that he recorded a demo in his home studio by himself and didnt document it.

When it comes to Wendy and Lisa's involvement in the song and if they wrote it, I would defer to Wendy directly from the Purple Rain DVD:

“In answer to everyone’s question, did Wendy & Lisa write Purple Rain? The answer is no. But… did we help? Yes we did.”

I think it is very clear that Wendy came up with the strumming guitar in the beginning and that everyone in the band helped out with their parts.

Success has many parents, and failure dies an orphan.

My book PRINCE and The Purple Rain Era Studio Sessions 1983-1984 was released in November 2017. (https://www.amazon.com/Prince-Purple-Rain-Studio-Sessions/dp/1538105497/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8) or go to https://www.facebook.com/...s/10915961
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Reply #91 posted 08/25/11 3:54pm

Mars23

Moderator

avatar

moderator

TheFreakerFantastic said:

This thread title is inaccurate. She didn't say he wrote Purple Rain for her, he just offered her an instrumental which, after she rejected, he later did more work on to become 'Purple Rain', that's different in my book.

Also, this doesn't disprove that W&L had input either, Stevie is talking about what sounds like an early instrumental/demo.


[Edited 8/25/11 10:40am]

Both good points. A far as the thread title, well, that was what the poster chose and it did spark some discussion.

Studies have shown the ass crack of the average Prince fan to be abnormally large. This explains the ease and frequency of their panties bunching up in it.
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Reply #92 posted 08/25/11 4:46pm

alexnvrmnd777

BartVanHemelen said:

alexnvrmnd777 said:

Um, can we get back to talking about Purple Rain and how the Prince camp (yeah, I said it; "CAMP"!!!) worked on it before/after offering it to Stevie?!

It is a bit stunning how little info we have on this song. We know when it was recorded, but other than that all we have is some testimonials by band members, like Matt Fink talking about urging Prince to do a Bob Seger-like song, Bobby Z remembering he heard Prince "playing the chord changes of the song during a rehearsal in Cincinnatti in December 1982" (that must have been 12 December 1982, when the 1999 Tour stopped at the Riverfront Coliseum).

And then there's basically nothing until Prince & The Revolution perform the legendary Minnesota Dance Theatre benefit concert on 3 August 1983 at First Avenue.

Inbetween those two events there must have been the rehearsal Wendy & Lisa talk about, the one where a bunch of raw ideas came together and resulted in "Purple Rain".

But there's no evidence of a studio recording before the 3 August 1983 concert? Isn't that a bit odd? Granted, the basis for several other songs was also recorded there: "Electric Intercourse", "I Would Die 4 U" and "Baby I'm A Star", but we also know there is a demo for "Baby I'm A Star" from late 1981-1982.

And if Stevie Nicks is to be believed, Prince had recorded an instrumental demo of "Purple Rain", which he would have sent her shortly after the recording session for "Stand Back".

I can only hope that somewhere there's a huge stash of unknown documentation (a paper trail) which contains so much more information on all those songs and more. One can only hope that someday he'll regain his senses and open his vault to a select few music historians, so they can attempt to fill in the gaps. If a mega-corporation like LEGO is willing to open its vault to fans who are documenting every set ever released, surely Prince can do the same...

That's an excellent point, Bart. It sorta looks like this proper song popped up all of a sudden because we never were able to pinpoint its progression, when looking back on it. lol The only thing we know for sure is that there are a few sets of hands on this piece of work. So, people should stop pretending he operated in a vacuum back in the day.

Prince doesn't really care enough about his legacy to really have everything properly documented in his vault, audio and video (IMO). Ya see, LEGO has respect for their past works and realizes its cherished legacy and appreciates the bond that's formed between itself and its fans (even though they are a so-called cold and sterile faceless corporation). Prince barely wants the fans to know his vault exists anymore. It truly makes me wonder what he has planned for his music/estate for the next 10+ years and up until and after his death. He's more worried about anyone making ANY money off of it rather than preserving the historic work of a genius, warts and all. disbelief

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Reply #93 posted 08/25/11 4:52pm

kewlschool

avatar

madhouseman said:

In all of my research, I have found nothing to indicate that Stevie was ever asked to write the lyrics for Purple Rain. I think that there is a little embellishment going on there, but I'd love to be proven wrong. I've seen no indication of Prince recording the song earlier in any of the studio notes I've seen or with any of the interviews from the Revolution or the others that were in the studio. There is always the possiblity that he recorded a demo in his home studio by himself and didnt document it.

When it comes to Wendy and Lisa's involvement in the song and if they wrote it, I would defer to Wendy directly from the Purple Rain DVD:

“In answer to everyone’s question, did Wendy & Lisa write Purple Rain? The answer is no. But… did we help? Yes we did.”

I think it is very clear that Wendy came up with the strumming guitar in the beginning and that everyone in the band helped out with their parts.

Success has many parents, and failure dies an orphan.

^^^^Wendy's response to the question did Wenda and Lisa write Purple Rain. Found on the speciel edition of Purple Rain. Their input was on some arrangement of music. All comments can be found on the extra's on the speciel edition of Purple Rain.

99.9% of everything I say is strictly for my own entertainment
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Reply #94 posted 08/25/11 5:22pm

madhouseman

kewlschool said:

madhouseman said:

In all of my research, I have found nothing to indicate that Stevie was ever asked to write the lyrics for Purple Rain. I think that there is a little embellishment going on there, but I'd love to be proven wrong. I've seen no indication of Prince recording the song earlier in any of the studio notes I've seen or with any of the interviews from the Revolution or the others that were in the studio. There is always the possiblity that he recorded a demo in his home studio by himself and didnt document it.

When it comes to Wendy and Lisa's involvement in the song and if they wrote it, I would defer to Wendy directly from the Purple Rain DVD:

“In answer to everyone’s question, did Wendy & Lisa write Purple Rain? The answer is no. But… did we help? Yes we did.”

I think it is very clear that Wendy came up with the strumming guitar in the beginning and that everyone in the band helped out with their parts.

Success has many parents, and failure dies an orphan.

^^^^Wendy's response to the question did Wenda and Lisa write Purple Rain. Found on the speciel edition of Purple Rain. Their input was on some arrangement of music. All comments can be found on the extra's on the speciel edition of Purple Rain.

exactly. thanx for the assist on that one.

My book PRINCE and The Purple Rain Era Studio Sessions 1983-1984 was released in November 2017. (https://www.amazon.com/Prince-Purple-Rain-Studio-Sessions/dp/1538105497/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8) or go to https://www.facebook.com/...s/10915961
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Reply #95 posted 08/25/11 5:28pm

Nick715

I would love to hear the unreleased stuff. For the record, "Stand Back" and "Little Red Corvette" are two of my all time 80's favorites.

I didn't become a music freak until about '82 and '83.

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Reply #96 posted 08/25/11 5:38pm

GustavoRibas

avatar

Cool, I never knew ´Stand Back´, and now that I listened to it, it has LRC all over it. Real nice song and I love her voice.

Peace
Gustavo Ribas
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Reply #97 posted 08/25/11 6:08pm

Nick715

^This forum needs a "like" feature. wink

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Reply #98 posted 08/26/11 6:48am

iloveannie

Stevie Nicks. Best know for ruining Fleetwood Mac.

She was also on tv recently for an interview. One word summed her up. I normally don't apply this word to women but in this case it was more than appropriate.

TIT.

I could have used the word ANNOYING in front of it. Horrid accent, horrid persona, horrid voice.

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Reply #99 posted 08/26/11 7:00am

PurpleJedi

avatar

IamFunkay7 said:

kewlschool said:

Stevie still has the original cassette tape of music -That has the unfinished music piece for the song that eventually became Purple Rain. I wonder how much that tape is worth??

a fortune!

nod

By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory!
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Reply #100 posted 08/26/11 9:59am

TheFreakerFant
astic

avatar

Mars23 said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

This thread title is inaccurate. She didn't say he wrote Purple Rain for her, he just offered her an instrumental which, after she rejected, he later did more work on to become 'Purple Rain', that's different in my book.

Also, this doesn't disprove that W&L had input either, Stevie is talking about what sounds like an early instrumental/demo.


[Edited 8/25/11 10:40am]

Both good points. A far as the thread title, well, that was what the poster chose and it did spark some discussion.

Thanks for the info Mars wink

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Reply #101 posted 08/26/11 10:43am

rdhull

avatar

iloveannie said:

Stevie Nicks. Best know for ruining Fleetwood Mac.

She was also on tv recently for an interview. One word summed her up. I normally don't apply this word to women but in this case it was more than appropriate.

TIT.

I could have used the word ANNOYING in front of it. Horrid accent, horrid persona, horrid voice.

^^^you can go your own way

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
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Reply #102 posted 08/26/11 11:53am

errant

avatar

iloveannie said:

Stevie Nicks. Best know for ruining Fleetwood Mac.

She was also on tv recently for an interview. One word summed her up. I normally don't apply this word to women but in this case it was more than appropriate.

TIT.

I could have used the word ANNOYING in front of it. Horrid accent, horrid persona, horrid voice.

tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies

"does my cock look fat in these jeans?"
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Reply #103 posted 08/26/11 1:11pm

Sexymf77

avatar

I heard somthing about this b4.

But ,not the pr song originally

4 stevie. Behind the music or something

I saw,she talked about the listeing to

little red corvette and stand back video.

Shut up already...Damn!
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Reply #104 posted 08/26/11 3:40pm

JumpUpOnThe1

avatar

IshmaelB said:

early Nicks:

early Prince:

Okay, THAT is freaky, lol. Prince as Lindsay Buckingham?? doh!

Wait- does this mean he wrote 'I Wanna Be Your Lover' to Stevie ?? omfg lol

********************************************
...Ur standing in the epicenter, Let the shaking begin...
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Reply #105 posted 08/26/11 3:47pm

PurpleLove7

avatar

moderator

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

So this puts to rest, the over 25 year claim that Wendy & Lisa help write that song. Finally this discredits that The Revolution is responsible for Prince's crossover success & therefore wouldn't have been a superstar.......Thx Stevie.....Ok Wendy & Lisa groupies!

Yeah, I think the movie 'Purple Rain' influenced fam / fans to believe Wendy & Lisa co-wrote it ...

Peace ... & Stay Funky ...

~* The only love there is, is the love "we" make *~

www.facebook.com/purplefunklover
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Reply #106 posted 08/26/11 4:13pm

IamFunkay7

JumpUpOnThe1 said:

IshmaelB said:

early Nicks:

early Prince:

Okay, THAT is freaky, lol. Prince as Lindsay Buckingham?? doh!

Wait- does this mean he wrote 'I Wanna Be Your Lover' to Stevie ?? omfg lol

blowup nutty

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Reply #107 posted 08/26/11 4:26pm

NDRU

avatar

TheFreakerFantastic said:

This thread title is inaccurate. She didn't say he wrote Purple Rain for her, he just offered her an instrumental which, after she rejected, he later did more work on to become 'Purple Rain', that's different in my book.

Also, this doesn't disprove that W&L had input either, Stevie is talking about what sounds like an early instrumental/demo.

That is what I was going to say, he may have written it for Pat Boone originally

And just like in the movie, an instrumental version of PR is very different from the final version...although, I have to say, I can totally hear Stevie singing Purple Rain

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Reply #108 posted 08/26/11 4:47pm

XxAxX

avatar

kinda makesa a person wonder, how many unlabeled old cassette tapes, battered but still playable, are out there that have rough sketches by prince he gave away to friends or people he wanted to work with? drool if i come across a box of old tapes at a garage sale in north minneapolis, i'll buy them....

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Reply #109 posted 08/26/11 5:19pm

laurarichardso
n

Zannaloaf said:

"So he sent her a cassette of a long instrumental track and invited her to pen lyrics."

How close to the final was it? And he hadn't written the lyrics so who contributed to that?We have no idea what the thing sounded like but jump to all kinds of conclusions.


"Kiss" started as a short acoustic demo, about a minute in length, with one verse and the chorus. Mazarati and produceDavid Z. drastically reworked the song, giving it its stripped-down sound. When Mazarati delivered the song to Prince, he decided to take back the song for himself. He replaced their lead vocal, added the guitar break in the chorus and edited the song to its present form."

Sounds like David Z. and Mazarati should have gotten writing credit too. Thats right- David Z and Mazarati fans comin' out tha woodwork... lol

David Z has said that P made that song and deserved the credit. If you had a chance to hear the Mazarati version you would understand why P s version is better.

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Reply #110 posted 08/26/11 6:28pm

1725topp

Spinlight said:

Show me proof of that.

Edit: Neither Prince nor For You were crossover successes. "I Wanna Be Your Lover" topped off at #11 on the Billboard hot 100. It was the only single to be successful until the 1999 album.

So, in order for this to fit YOUR dream, IWBYL's top 11 charting would mean he had crossed over. Odd that he seemingly crossed over and then went right back to the black audience with his next 2 albums.

Riiiiight.

[Edited 8/25/11 7:06am]

I don't know how much writing Wendy and Lisa did from Purple Rain through Sign "O" the Times, but, technically, according to Monte Moir and others, Prince's crossover success began with "1999" and "Little Red Corvette." Once both songs were in heavy rotation on MTV, especially "Little Red Corvette," which was also during the 1999 Tour, members of The Time and The Revolution began to see a huge increase in white audience members, which represented almost half of the audience by the end of the tour. This was also helped by having successful white acts like John Cougar play the 1999 album as the audience was waiting for the John Cougar show to begin.

*

Now, Prince wanted crossover success and knew that having white members in the band would aid that. As Pepe Willie states, "Prince wanted a white drummer. There were better drummers, but Prince wanted a white drummer." This is not to say that Bobby Z was not a good drummer. And, of course, Lisa and Fink were already in the band. Prince even admitted in 85/86 that Wendy "makes him seem alright with some people. When I sneer, she smiles." But to say that Prince's crossover success is due to Wendy and Lisa really discounts Prince's talent to write music that can be appreciated by several different types of people. Of course, Prince, himself, blurs this line with all of the "cloak and dagger" mystery and by the fact that his own concerns about race (his own blackness) limiting the type of airplay, fans, and opportunities that he would have as a musician all works to make it difficult to draw a line in the sand and say what was written when and by whom. And there is enough proof to show that Prince has taken credit for some things that he did not write yet we should not act like he is the first to do this and that every time has been calculated and purposeful. Sometimes people forget just how collaborative making music is, and most musicians in a group setting, especially with people with whom they have worked for a while, would be hard-pressed to say who wrote what note when.

*

Now, let me be honest and say that I'm one of those persons who rolls his eyes when I hear folk saying that Prince was nothing without Wendy and Lisa. Wendy and Lisa are great musicians who added a great deal to Prince's body of work. However, Prince was a genius before them and a genius after them, and a testament to that is that 1999 crossover before the Wendy and Lisa era, unless we are saying that Wendy and Lisa wrote or greatly contributed to “1999” and “Little Red Corvette.”

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Reply #111 posted 08/26/11 8:36pm

KCOOLMUZIQ

1725topp said:

Spinlight said:

Show me proof of that.

Edit: Neither Prince nor For You were crossover successes. "I Wanna Be Your Lover" topped off at #11 on the Billboard hot 100. It was the only single to be successful until the 1999 album.

So, in order for this to fit YOUR dream, IWBYL's top 11 charting would mean he had crossed over. Odd that he seemingly crossed over and then went right back to the black audience with his next 2 albums.

Riiiiight.

[Edited 8/25/11 7:06am]

I don't know how much writing Wendy and Lisa did from Purple Rain through Sign "O" the Times, but, technically, according to Monte Moir and others, Prince's crossover success began with "1999" and "Little Red Corvette." Once both songs were in heavy rotation on MTV, especially "Little Red Corvette," which was also during the 1999 Tour, members of The Time and The Revolution began to see a huge increase in white audience members, which represented almost half of the audience by the end of the tour. This was also helped by having successful white acts like John Cougar play the 1999 album as the audience was waiting for the John Cougar show to begin.

*

Now, Prince wanted crossover success and knew that having white members in the band would aid that. As Pepe Willie states, "Prince wanted a white drummer. There were better drummers, but Prince wanted a white drummer." This is not to say that Bobby Z was not a good drummer. And, of course, Lisa and Fink were already in the band. Prince even admitted in 85/86 that Wendy "makes him seem alright with some people. When I sneer, she smiles." But to say that Prince's crossover success is due to Wendy and Lisa really discounts Prince's talent to write music that can be appreciated by several different types of people. Of course, Prince, himself, blurs this line with all of the "cloak and dagger" mystery and by the fact that his own concerns about race (his own blackness) limiting the type of airplay, fans, and opportunities that he would have as a musician all works to make it difficult to draw a line in the sand and say what was written when and by whom. And there is enough proof to show that Prince has taken credit for some things that he did not write yet we should not act like he is the first to do this and that every time has been calculated and purposeful. Sometimes people forget just how collaborative making music is, and most musicians in a group setting, especially with people with whom they have worked for a while, would be hard-pressed to say who wrote what note when.

*

Now, let me be honest and say that I'm one of those persons who rolls his eyes when I hear folk saying that Prince was nothing without Wendy and Lisa. Wendy and Lisa are great musicians who added a great deal to Prince's body of work. However, Prince was a genius before them and a genius after them, and a testament to that is that 1999 crossover before the Wendy and Lisa era, unless we are saying that Wendy and Lisa wrote or greatly contributed to “1999” and “Little Red Corvette.”

clapping nod clapping

eye will ALWAYS think of prince like a "ACT OF GOD"! N another realm. eye mean of all people who might of been aliens or angels.if found out that prince wasn't of this earth, eye would not have been that surprised. R.I.P. prince
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Reply #112 posted 08/26/11 9:09pm

babynoz

1725topp said:

I don't know how much writing Wendy and Lisa did from Purple Rain through Sign "O" the Times, but, technically, according to Monte Moir and others, Prince's crossover success began with "1999" and "Little Red Corvette." Once both songs were in heavy rotation on MTV, especially "Little Red Corvette," which was also during the 1999 Tour, members of The Time and The Revolution began to see a huge increase in white audience members, which represented almost half of the audience by the end of the tour. This was also helped by having successful white acts like John Cougar play the 1999 album as the audience was waiting for the John Cougar show to begin.

*

Now, Prince wanted crossover success and knew that having white members in the band would aid that. As Pepe Willie states, "Prince wanted a white drummer. There were better drummers, but Prince wanted a white drummer." This is not to say that Bobby Z was not a good drummer. And, of course, Lisa and Fink were already in the band. Prince even admitted in 85/86 that Wendy "makes him seem alright with some people. When I sneer, she smiles." But to say that Prince's crossover success is due to Wendy and Lisa really discounts Prince's talent to write music that can be appreciated by several different types of people. Of course, Prince, himself, blurs this line with all of the "cloak and dagger" mystery and by the fact that his own concerns about race (his own blackness) limiting the type of airplay, fans, and opportunities that he would have as a musician all works to make it difficult to draw a line in the sand and say what was written when and by whom. And there is enough proof to show that Prince has taken credit for some things that he did not write yet we should not act like he is the first to do this and that every time has been calculated and purposeful. Sometimes people forget just how collaborative making music is, and most musicians in a group setting, especially with people with whom they have worked for a while, would be hard-pressed to say who wrote what note when.

*

Now, let me be honest and say that I'm one of those persons who rolls his eyes when I hear folk saying that Prince was nothing without Wendy and Lisa. Wendy and Lisa are great musicians who added a great deal to Prince's body of work. However, Prince was a genius before them and a genius after them, and a testament to that is that 1999 crossover before the Wendy and Lisa era, unless we are saying that Wendy and Lisa wrote or greatly contributed to “1999” and “Little Red Corvette.”

yeahthat

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #113 posted 08/26/11 9:41pm

JudasLChrist

avatar

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

So this puts to rest, the over 25 year claim that Wendy & Lisa help write that song. Finally this discredits that The Revolution is responsible for Prince's crossover success & therefore wouldn't have been a superstar.......Thx Stevie.....Ok Wendy & Lisa groupies!

No, actually, it doesn't. On the Purple Rain special edition DVD W&L flat out break down waht their contribution to the song Purple Rain was. There's no speculation, and this story doesn't conflict with theirs, so...

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Reply #114 posted 08/27/11 7:00am

ecstasy

avatar

Oh wow thats crazy... Well remember that it was just an instrumental track before it became the real Purple Rain. Soooooo, personally I'm not excepting it, haha

Yes, at 19, I finally saw the Revolution, a legendary band. And I talked to Wendy!!! biggrin In addition to seeing Prince, I have now lived life. Thank you Purple People!!
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Reply #115 posted 08/27/11 12:01pm

tomds

suomynona said:

But haters of those that don't like 75-90% of tGE, the preachiness of tRC, and *anything* some guest rapper has ruined -- even Prince doesn't care for that material. When was the last time Prince played something from tRC at a concert? ONA tour? How about anything from tGE other than "Shhh"? Oh wait, I think he's been playing Endorphinmachine again lately. So yeah, two songs from tGE.

Just sayin'...

he played gold a couple of times recently. and the most beautiful girl in the world.

that's 4 songs from one album. only purple rain has more songs sung live.

[Edited 8/27/11 12:03pm]

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Reply #116 posted 08/27/11 5:33pm

thedance

avatar

Mars23 said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

This thread title is inaccurate. She didn't say he wrote Purple Rain for her, he just offered her an instrumental which, after she rejected, he later did more work on to become 'Purple Rain', that's different in my book.

Also, this doesn't disprove that W&L had input either, Stevie is talking about what sounds like an early instrumental/demo.

Both good points. A far as the thread title, well, that was what the poster chose and it did spark some discussion.

^

so the headline is not a fact, but actually is misleading?!

I wish you, Mars... or someone else would change it then.

I did not believe this from the beginning - anyway.

Prince 4Ever. heart
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Reply #117 posted 08/27/11 6:08pm

TonyVanDam

MickyDolenz said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

So this puts to rest, the over 25 year claim that Wendy & Lisa help write that song.

I don't know who wrote what. But Stevie just says Prince gave her a tape with an instrumental. That doesn't prove anything either way. She doesn't say the music was written solo or in a collaboration and Stevie wouldn't know unless she was told.

Exactly. nod So therefore, some of these Prince-stans needs to stop trying too hard in discrediting the inspirations of Wendy & Lisa.

Yes, I said it.

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Reply #118 posted 08/27/11 6:38pm

KCOOLMUZIQ

JudasLChrist said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

So this puts to rest, the over 25 year claim that Wendy & Lisa help write that song. Finally this discredits that The Revolution is responsible for Prince's crossover success & therefore wouldn't have been a superstar.......Thx Stevie.....Ok Wendy & Lisa groupies!

No, actually, it doesn't. On the Purple Rain special edition DVD W&L flat out break down waht their contribution to the song Purple Rain was. There's no speculation, and this story doesn't conflict with theirs, so...

I have that special edition DvD & heard every word Wendy & Lisa said....I do believe the opening guitar cords was Wendy it is very brilliant but that doesn't change the song what it is & who created it....

eye will ALWAYS think of prince like a "ACT OF GOD"! N another realm. eye mean of all people who might of been aliens or angels.if found out that prince wasn't of this earth, eye would not have been that surprised. R.I.P. prince
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Reply #119 posted 08/28/11 7:44am

HohnerCatcher

JumpUpOnThe1 said:

IshmaelB said:

early Nicks:

early Prince:

Okay, THAT is freaky, lol. Prince as Lindsay Buckingham?? doh!

Wait- does this mean he wrote 'I Wanna Be Your Lover' to Stevie ?? omfg lol

No, "I Wanna Be Your Lover" was for keyboardist/singer Patrice Rushen. Let's not get our stories mixed up with speculation (from Stevie Nicks or other obsessed fans).
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