from 1983 til 1995...prince had at least one top ten hit every year in the us and uk..give or take a year..a seemingly endless run of big hit singles....then..of course...he split from warners and..since then....he has never had a top 10 hit in either country...in fact ..he hasnt even cracked the top 40 since his split from warners with any single (not including the re-issue of 1999)..

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now...do you believe that ...if prince had stayed with warners that this run of big hits would have continued or...do you believe that prince was losing his ability to write big hits anyway around the time of the split ?...

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obviously leaving warners hurt his ability to have hits because he was losing the promotion and availability that being with a big record company gives you and the knock on effect to radio which did seem to turn its back on prince after he left warners...

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i believe the answer is a bit of both...i think would have had some more big hits if he had stayed with warners but it would have became less and less due to many factors....age..etc..

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i also believe the tragedy he suffered in 1996 hit him hard (as you would expect) and his work suffered because of it...and it took him a number of years to pick myself up and the quality of his work to improve..(although not to the standard of this 80s work of course)

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i sometimes wonder if prince regrets the name change and the split from warners ?...probably not as freedom and control has always been important to him...it was probably only a matter of time...

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so do you have an opinion on the split and the effect on his career ?

Yes indeed. There was no longer the power house of a huge record comany like WB to piush for siongles and promtoe them in the media. Had he stayed with WB and not blinked, he would have continued to have at least top twenty hits, keeping him in the public eye consistantly. This would have invilved having proper videos made and played on the majir channels and outlets. Print ads, live performances at music shows and such as well. Sponsored tours with the might of major ticket servicing would also have enhanced his staying power. Yes, he did tours and went on shows on his own accord and with new "minor" management but that didn't compare to WB and their machine. And when he went back to a major with Clive, it was almost too late as he blinked and pulled the slave/symbol shennanegins. So even though people may feel he fell off right after Gold etc, his music released since would have been pushed into top twenty status and more as per usual in the days of WB. Yes, some things like Musicology went into top ten with the new release system he used, and 3121 did well also, WB would have given stronger staying power and a possibly (almost certain) vibe that would have made his releases seem more electric or exciting to the general buying public, not just to the miniscule die hards that still buy his releases at a little amount.

They should release a new hits--B Sides, but with the full versions, Alexa De Paris, Love & Money. Another cd of outtakes like Moonbeam levels, Cosmic Day. Live versions of the hits, etc, in a huge box set.

Would rock the foundations of planet earth. Warners just aint clever.

bobbyperu said:

Hit singles are made by teenagers and every artist gets to a point where they become just too old for that. So I think it just had to happen, war with Warners or not. Prince is now able to draw a crowd simply by his reputation which is actually a far greater achievement than having another hit single or two. And hearing When I Lay My Hands on U and Future Soul Song at the North Sea made me realise he has not lost his ability tovwrite a song that could be a hit. And working with a record company would make that easier, yes. But those are his decisions...

i agree that some of his songs would have been hits if he had stayed with warner...future soul song still sounds like a hit to me and i think it would have done well if it has been released and promoted properly...the lack of airplay is the one thing that really hit him and his constant mentioning of it over the years...it clearly annoys the hell out of him...

[Edited 8/7/11 13:24pm]

Apart from the already mentioned factors of lack of promotion and other perks of having a big machinery behind, with the split from WB we also lost a minimum of quality control in favour of a team of yes-men too afraid to lose their job.

I don't think Prince regrets either the stupid name change or losing the backing of a great company. He surely just thinks the world is so wrong.

The split would not have mattered either way. No matter what Prince did he would have had a hard time getting any promotion because the late 1990s was when the radio and music industries decided to relegate most music by black men to the genre they call “urban”, which focuses on negative and phony gangster stereotypes that Prince will never fit into. Even if Prince had stayed at Warner he would have faded away in favor of young guys singing about drugs, guns, and bitches.

jpnyc said:

The split would not have mattered either way. No matter what Prince did he would have had a hard time getting any promotion because the late 1990s was when the radio and music industries decided to relegate most music by black men to the genre they call “urban”, which focuses on negative and phony gangster stereotypes that Prince will never fit into. Even if Prince had stayed at Warner he would have faded away in favor of young guys singing about drugs, guns, and bitches.

Na, those werent singers they were rappers. Most of them were MUCH better artists then Prince was in the mid 90's.

[Edited 8/7/11 15:34pm]

What Prince did right in my opinion, was to leave Time Warner.

The way he did it, left a lot to desire and deserves its own thread, but nevertheless it was the right decision.

As for "killing the hits":

What "hits" really? Ever since the 90's, "hits" usually just means crap by one-day-fly bullshit "artists" on 360 deals, "pushed" by some schmug that have little to do with real music.

What "videos" really? You mean Viacom owned MTV not showing them anymore? Closed of most of its channels and is now operating as some "reality TV" network on the verge of bankruptcy?

What "artists" really? Do you have any idea how many "hits" were pooped out by how many fakers since the 90's? All the names that you do not recognize anymore when you see them again?

And what "record companies" really? You mean media moguls like Time Warner, Sony or Universal, that have been selling and promoting crap artists with crap music worldwide for decades, while waging war on the internet and offering us cartel priced shit in the meantime?

Fuck those "hits". You are a hit these days if you manage to survive for more than a couple of years. And Prince no doubt is a survivor.

[Edited 8/7/11 18:05pm]

But he should have had a functioning website where you could buy all his stuff, from stuff out of the vault, to concerts, to videos, tourbooks etc.

Not easy, no doubt, but he really should have.

What killed the hits was Prince losing the ability,... to craft a hit single.

By the late 90's, production sensibilities and stuctures had evolved and Prince was definately way behind the curve by then.

Its not he wasnt a brilliant songwriter anymore,...it was that he did not have the ability to create songs that were instantly and broadly accessible.

Like he once did.

sexyfunkystrange said:

What killed the hits was Prince losing the ability,... to craft a hit single.

By the late 90's, production sensibilities and stuctures had evolved and Prince was definately way behind the curve by then.

Its not he wasnt a brilliant songwriter anymore,...it was that he did not have the ability to create songs that were instantly and broadly accessible.

Like he once did.

He made plenty of those.

^ Prince, nor his songs simply weren't "pushed"

exception: musicology

But what "hit" comparable to the 80's, did he really have with that one huh?

no he simply ran out of good material.

times change. how many people from the 80's still have hits? i dont think it would matter if he had stayed with warners or not. i wont blame it just on his material either. lets face it, the young fans are what makes a hit a hit, and after a certain amount of time an artist cant pull in as big of a young crowd as whatever the new hot thing is.

Being a legendary artist doesn't help you on music charts, unless you're hiring hitmaking songwriters, current producers, and getting a lot of help promoting it at the label.

I think Prince's way of promoting music is to make a TV appearance and do live shows, and occasionally show up on radio stations for an interview. Music video channels don't even factor in much anymore.

By the end of the 90s, record companies were forcing consumers to buy full-length CDs and pretty much took singles off the market. And you never see Prince's music on any of those "Now" compilations.

He's still one of the most successful entertainers out there. He has a body of work that people are going to keep discovering. But I do think it's time for a new, post WB era, greatest hits to be released with a DVD, and do a major reissue project, because there's fans coming to the show that might only have heard "Ultimate" or "The Hits/B-Sides" and a couple of WB era CDs, and maybe/hopefully they've heard something more recent...

First off, BlackBob, this is a great topic of discussion.

There have been posts made here that really keep me from wanting to be a part of the org but I do certainly look forward to posts like the one that you have made today.

As for the hits, Prince's so called 'Emancipation' from record labels put him in a strange place. The guy is obviously a brilliant musician/songwriter but without any guidelines, time restraints, or borders, this guy creates turd after turd.

The Lovesexy era Prince would never have even considered releasing garbage like NewPowerSoul...

When Prince had a manager to pick up all the pieces, Prince had an outstanding professional career 80 - 88. As soon as he ditched Fargnoli and Carvallo, his career fell to pieces. It's a travesty to see such a wonderful career get thrown out like he did.

Oh well - the guy is obviously bored these days and certainly appears to have lost complete control of his image, music and public persona. He's been playing the same pop/rock/funk/rnb music for the past 30 years and while he has included more and more jazz into his work, he obviously needs to try something new. Things have changed and it would be nice if he did as well.

J

One Prince split from warner and became a symbol, he basically dropped in popularity, he was trying too hard to make another chart topper like purple rain. He also was trying to compete with the rap, bubble gum pop, and grunge rock of the 90's, and just wasnt cutting it. It wasnt until 2004, with Musicology that he made a comeback. Much like the did with Diamonds and Pearls back in 91. The next album after musicology...3121 was Prince's #1 Album since 89's Batman. I honestly think that the break with warner might of been somewhat nessary, but I dont think that would of effected the music that he made.

It didn't kill the hits, but it definitely made them harder to get. Prince was pretty much on his own, without the backing, promotion, or support of a major record label. His strategic comeback in 2004 was due to his brilliant manipulation of the charts by distributing his albums along with his tickets. Genius.

All it shows is that Prince could have hits (not as big as Purple Rain, but definitely on the level of Musicology) if he just used his business acumen more. Like the distributing 20Ten with newspapers is genius because he gets paid all the money he wants upfront and the fans still get their music. It's a win win scenario. If he only found some more ways to get hits and to promote himself right, I think he could be on to something big.