GustavoRibas said:

V10LETBLUES said:

I never did that. My comparison was to the contemporaries of 95. I was disputing the notion that better WB promotion would have helped and I stated that not even only payola would have helped. But to the point about sales, all the artist I mentioned on the first list of some of the best acts of 95, surely did sell better than Prince, an established artist.

[Edited 7/20/11 15:53pm]

- Let´s not forget that the world changed in the 90s. Androgyny wasnt cool anymore, the bands sounded more ´raw´ than in the 80s (thanks to grunge), and some of the "best acts of 95" were younger and ´cooler´ than Prince for younger audiences. On the other hand, the more mature audience would probably dislike Prince´s flirt with hip hop and cheesy keys. They would go to Norah Jones, Sting, this kind of stuff.

When Prince released ´Musicology´, I really thought he was starting to try to build a fanbase between people who like "classic" stuff (Marvin Gaye, EWF and such).

[Edited 7/20/11 16:18pm]

I completely agree with you here.

skywalker said:

V10LETBLUES said:

I never did that. My comparison was to the contemporaries of 95. I was disputing the notion that better WB promotion would have helped and I stated that not even only payola would have helped. But to the point about sales, all the artist I mentioned on the first list of some of the best acts of 95, surely did sell better than Prince, and established artist.

The acts that sold better than in 1995 Prince weren't "at war" with their own label and sabotaging their own promotion. People buy what's promoted. Prince's best selling albums are his best promoted. If The Gold Experience would have been pushed like Diamonds and Pearls it would have sold a hell of a lot more. Compare Prince's promos/tv appearances in 1991 to 1995.

[Edited 7/20/11 15:50pm]

Hmm, I would argue that he did promote The Gold Experience quite a bit but the problem was that the vast majority of it took place in 1994/early 1995 many months before the album was released (September, 1995?).

rialb said:

skywalker said:

The acts that sold better than in 1995 Prince weren't "at war" with their own label and sabotaging their own promotion. People buy what's promoted. Prince's best selling albums are his best promoted. If The Gold Experience would have been pushed like Diamonds and Pearls it would have sold a hell of a lot more. Compare Prince's promos/tv appearances in 1991 to 1995.

[Edited 7/20/11 15:50pm]

Hmm, I would argue that he did promote The Gold Experience quite a bit but the problem was that the vast majority of it took place in 1994/early 1995 many months before the album was released (September, 1995?).

True. Timing counts for a lot though. I mean, Prince was on Letterman promoting, as Dave said, an album that will never be released. It was all fucked up by Prince and WB not getting their shit together.

skywalker said:

rialb said:

Hmm, I would argue that he did promote The Gold Experience quite a bit but the problem was that the vast majority of it took place in 1994/early 1995 many months before the album was released (September, 1995?).

True. Timing counts for a lot though. I mean, Prince was on Letterman promoting, as Dave said, an album that will never be released. It was all fucked up by Prince and WB not getting their shit together.

It kind of makes you wonder what would have happened if instead of promoting The Gold Experience in 1994/1995 he had put all of those appearances into promoting Come. There probably wasn't a huge pop hit on Come and no number of television appearances would have changed that but by doing virtually nothing to help the album he surely gave some fans the impression that it wasn't worth their time. Platinum status in the US would have been a challenge but there must have been a lot of people that didn't even know that Come even existed. If Prince had really gotten behind the album and gave it a big push surely it would have sold substantially more than it did.

TrevorAyer said:

Emancipation was a collection of songs that Prince wanted to promote .. Gold was not. (except Most Beautiful Girl)

and this would be based on what? WB delayed the release of TGE by one year otherwise Prince would have likely promoted it too. Just like your comical post on TGE being "contract filler" and having gotten "mediocre reviews", this is yet another nonsense post.

here are some of the "mediocre" reviews gold experience got

http://www.allmusic.com/a...814/review

http://www.robertchristga...ame=prince

http://www.ew.com/ew/arti...05,00.html

the album got mostly favourible reviews, with alot of critics giving it a 4 out of 5 stars, Robert Christgau giving it an A, and overall the reviews were very positive. Plus the majority of Prince fans regard it as one of his best works. Most critics and the majority of prince fans are not stupid to rate a "contract filler album" so highly. Its understandable if some people don't like the album but to claim its contract filler is utterly ridicolous. just as ridicolous as claiming prince is an "amateur" drummer. Next time please read the reviews before claiming it got "mediocre reviews". And for the next time, please provide actual evidence that Prince did not like the music on Gold before making such a claim. Because you really have nothing to back that statement up with, its yet another of those things you like to make up.

[Edited 7/21/11 7:52am]

I loved The Gold Experience when it came out, but think it sounds horribly dated today.

hhhhdmt said:

TrevorAyer said:

Emancipation was a collection of songs that Prince wanted to promote .. Gold was not. (except Most Beautiful Girl)

and this would be based on what? WB delayed the release of TGE by one year otherwise Prince would have likely promoted it too. Just like your comical post on TGE being "contract filler" and having gotten "mediocre reviews", this is yet another nonsense post.

here are some of the "mediocre" reviews gold experience got

http://www.allmusic.com/a...814/review

http://www.robertchristga...ame=prince

http://www.ew.com/ew/arti...05,00.html

the album got mostly favourible reviews, with alot of critics giving it a 4 out of 5 stars, Robert Christgau giving it an A, and overall the reviews were very positive. Plus the majority of Prince fans regard it as one of his best works. Most critics and the majority of prince fans are not stupid to rate a "contract filler album" so highly. Its understandable if some people don't like the album but to claim its contract filler is utterly ridicolous. just as ridicolous as claiming prince is an "amateur" drummer. Next time please read the reviews before claiming it got "mediocre reviews". And for the next time, please provide actual evidence that Prince did not like the music on Gold before making such a claim. Because you really have nothing to back that statement up with, its yet another of those things you like to make up.

[Edited 7/21/11 7:52am]

hey stalker .. here is my review .. the gold experience isn't very good .. did you read that one yet .. its pretty spot on ..

if you look at gold, come and chaos .. all three were prince being pissed off .. putting his most overtly sexual and therefore unsellable to the diamonds and pearls crowd on each record .. come has explicit descriptions of giving head .. solo is out in left field (i love it but its not exactly hit record material) orgasm .. pussy control .. i hate you with the rape fantasy .. bad rapping .. dig u better dead .. dinner with delores .. had u ... lots on those records was super negative angry and meant to piss in the face of warner brothers .. gold had the same intention as chaos and come and was promoted as such .. fuck warner brothers .. i'll play dolphin on letterman its on a record you will never hear instead of playing "let it go" .. all that glitters aint gold was a direct reference to wb wanting a sellable record and prince gave them the glittery gold experience but as the song goes .. he really spelled it out for ya .. its a gold painted toilet of a record ... compare that to emancipation .. an album of very positive love songs for the most part .. and really nothing thats gonna make the average house mom turn it off around her kids .. emancipation was the record prince liked .. he said so in interviews .. he wanted everyone to forget the previous trio .. he said they were his best songs ever on emancipation .. gold, chaos, and come (as interesting as some parts were) were meant to ruin his warner brothers career and the lack of care shows. dont argue with me argue with prince .. or at least argue the point instead of being a little bitch and trying to dog me

TrevorAyer said:

hhhhdmt said:

and this would be based on what? WB delayed the release of TGE by one year otherwise Prince would have likely promoted it too. Just like your comical post on TGE being "contract filler" and having gotten "mediocre reviews", this is yet another nonsense post.

here are some of the "mediocre" reviews gold experience got

http://www.allmusic.com/a...814/review

http://www.robertchristga...ame=prince

http://www.ew.com/ew/arti...05,00.html

the album got mostly favourible reviews, with alot of critics giving it a 4 out of 5 stars, Robert Christgau giving it an A, and overall the reviews were very positive. Plus the majority of Prince fans regard it as one of his best works. Most critics and the majority of prince fans are not stupid to rate a "contract filler album" so highly. Its understandable if some people don't like the album but to claim its contract filler is utterly ridicolous. just as ridicolous as claiming prince is an "amateur" drummer. Next time please read the reviews before claiming it got "mediocre reviews". And for the next time, please provide actual evidence that Prince did not like the music on Gold before making such a claim. Because you really have nothing to back that statement up with, its yet another of those things you like to make up.

[Edited 7/21/11 7:52am]

hey stalker .. here is my review .. the gold experience isn't very good .. did you read that one yet .. its pretty spot on ..

if you look at gold, come and chaos .. all three were prince being pissed off .. putting his most overtly sexual and therefore unsellable to the diamonds and pearls crowd on each record .. come has explicit descriptions of giving head .. solo is out in left field (i love it but its not exactly hit record material) orgasm .. pussy control .. i hate you with the rape fantasy .. bad rapping .. dig u better dead .. dinner with delores .. had u ... lots on those records was super negative angry and meant to piss in the face of warner brothers .. gold had the same intention as chaos and come and was promoted as such .. fuck warner brothers .. i'll play dolphin on letterman its on a record you will never hear instead of playing "let it go" .. all that glitters aint gold was a direct reference to wb wanting a sellable record and prince gave them the glittery gold experience but as the song goes .. he really spelled it out for ya .. its a gold painted toilet of a record ... compare that to emancipation .. an album of very positive love songs for the most part .. and really nothing thats gonna make the average house mom turn it off around her kids .. emancipation was the record prince liked .. he said so in interviews .. he wanted everyone to forget the previous trio .. he said they were his best songs ever on emancipation .. gold, chaos, and come (as interesting as some parts were) were meant to ruin his warner brothers career and the lack of care shows. dont argue with me argue with prince .. or at least argue the point instead of being a little bitch and trying to dog me

Oh please. Gett Off was just as overtly sexual as anything on these albums.

Doesn't typing all of that mumbo jumbo gets tiresome? I mean for real...

skywalker said:

TrevorAyer said:

hey stalker .. here is my review .. the gold experience isn't very good .. did you read that one yet .. its pretty spot on ..

if you look at gold, come and chaos .. all three were prince being pissed off .. putting his most overtly sexual and therefore unsellable to the diamonds and pearls crowd on each record .. come has explicit descriptions of giving head .. solo is out in left field (i love it but its not exactly hit record material) orgasm .. pussy control .. i hate you with the rape fantasy .. bad rapping .. dig u better dead .. dinner with delores .. had u ... lots on those records was super negative angry and meant to piss in the face of warner brothers .. gold had the same intention as chaos and come and was promoted as such .. fuck warner brothers .. i'll play dolphin on letterman its on a record you will never hear instead of playing "let it go" .. all that glitters aint gold was a direct reference to wb wanting a sellable record and prince gave them the glittery gold experience but as the song goes .. he really spelled it out for ya .. its a gold painted toilet of a record ... compare that to emancipation .. an album of very positive love songs for the most part .. and really nothing thats gonna make the average house mom turn it off around her kids .. emancipation was the record prince liked .. he said so in interviews .. he wanted everyone to forget the previous trio .. he said they were his best songs ever on emancipation .. gold, chaos, and come (as interesting as some parts were) were meant to ruin his warner brothers career and the lack of care shows. dont argue with me argue with prince .. or at least argue the point instead of being a little bitch and trying to dog me

Oh please. Gett Off was just as overtly sexual as anything on these albums.

um no way .. gett off is much more generalized and non specific than listening to prince describe twirling his tongue around some girls cortch or hearing her come during orgasm ... prince has always been sexual but he got pretty gross with it on come, orgasm, i hate u. and pheremone .. come on .. ur gonna compare pheromone to gett off .. have you heard the lyrics? .. and singing gett off is much different than singing the word pussy as the chorus to the first song on the record .. even if was meant positively .. no mother is gonna play that around her kids .. you could get away with gett off pretty easy ..

In fact, Prince seemed to like and promote Emancipation a lot, but, for me, Emancipation sounds a lot more ´plastic´ and dated than his 90s WB albums.

BTW, it´s a shame that, because of this war against WB, some real good stuff was overlooked while Prince promoted stuff like Rave, NPS and Emancipation. I really love some tracks of ´Chaos´ and ´Old Friends for sale´. Great live band sound and production too, most of the times.

[Edited 7/21/11 14:01pm]

TrevorAyer said:

hhhhdmt said:

and this would be based on what? WB delayed the release of TGE by one year otherwise Prince would have likely promoted it too. Just like your comical post on TGE being "contract filler" and having gotten "mediocre reviews", this is yet another nonsense post.

here are some of the "mediocre" reviews gold experience got

http://www.allmusic.com/a...814/review

http://www.robertchristga...ame=prince

http://www.ew.com/ew/arti...05,00.html

the album got mostly favourible reviews, with alot of critics giving it a 4 out of 5 stars, Robert Christgau giving it an A, and overall the reviews were very positive. Plus the majority of Prince fans regard it as one of his best works. Most critics and the majority of prince fans are not stupid to rate a "contract filler album" so highly. Its understandable if some people don't like the album but to claim its contract filler is utterly ridicolous. just as ridicolous as claiming prince is an "amateur" drummer. Next time please read the reviews before claiming it got "mediocre reviews". And for the next time, please provide actual evidence that Prince did not like the music on Gold before making such a claim. Because you really have nothing to back that statement up with, its yet another of those things you like to make up.

[Edited 7/21/11 7:52am]

hey stalker .. here is my review .. the gold experience isn't very good .. did you read that one yet .. its pretty spot on ..

if you look at gold, come and chaos .. all three were prince being pissed off .. putting his most overtly sexual and therefore unsellable to the diamonds and pearls crowd on each record .. come has explicit descriptions of giving head .. solo is out in left field (i love it but its not exactly hit record material) orgasm .. pussy control .. i hate you with the rape fantasy .. bad rapping .. dig u better dead .. dinner with delores .. had u ... lots on those records was super negative angry and meant to piss in the face of warner brothers .. gold had the same intention as chaos and come and was promoted as such .. fuck warner brothers .. i'll play dolphin on letterman its on a record you will never hear instead of playing "let it go" .. all that glitters aint gold was a direct reference to wb wanting a sellable record and prince gave them the glittery gold experience but as the song goes .. he really spelled it out for ya .. its a gold painted toilet of a record ... compare that to emancipation .. an album of very positive love songs for the most part .. and really nothing thats gonna make the average house mom turn it off around her kids .. emancipation was the record prince liked .. he said so in interviews .. he wanted everyone to forget the previous trio .. he said they were his best songs ever on emancipation .. gold, chaos, and come (as interesting as some parts were) were meant to ruin his warner brothers career and the lack of care shows. dont argue with me argue with prince .. or at least argue the point instead of being a little bitch and trying to dog me

no its not. Anybody who believes that prince sucks at most genres has no credibility. If you really believe that most people here agree with your posts, you are deluding yourself. How is it spot on? Not everybody is wrong here, just you Most critics and fans are not stupid to regard a "contract filler" album as a great record. It doesnt really matter what your review is since you have zero crediblity. Why dont you give the link for a specefic interview where he says that Gold was meant to ruin his wb carrear? On thats right, you can't, because it does not exist.

[Edited 7/21/11 19:48pm]

if you think prince wanted gold, chaos or come to be successful for warner brothers you really aren't listening to music or even looking at the album art .. helloooooooo

TrevorAyer said:

if you think prince wanted gold, chaos or come to be successful for warner brothers you really aren't listening to music or even looking at the album art .. helloooooooo

i am listening to music just fine, unlike you who thinks prince needs a click track. Why did you refuse to reply to that post after being owned?

Gold was a serious album. It was meant for success and it was successfull, atleast critically. It is true, however that Chaos and Disorder was meant as a contract obligation, not a serious album. Gold, on the other hand is a serious album, but was delayed by Warner Brothers for over a year.

TrevorAyer said:

skywalker said:

Oh please. Gett Off was just as overtly sexual as anything on these albums.

um no way .. gett off is much more generalized and non specific than listening to prince describe twirling his tongue around some girls cortch or hearing her come during orgasm ... prince has always been sexual but he got pretty gross with it on come, orgasm, i hate u. and pheremone .. come on .. ur gonna compare pheromone to gett off .. have you heard the lyrics? .. and singing gett off is much different than singing the word pussy as the chorus to the first song on the record .. even if was meant positively .. no mother is gonna play that around her kids .. you could get away with gett off pretty easy ..

Perhaps you are right. Perhaps I am thinking of the long edit of Gett Off and Violet the Organ Grinder.

This thread: unreadable since page-3

guys, are you just tryin' to improve your typin' skills???

JoeTyler said:

This thread: unreadable since page-3

guys, are you just tryin' to improve your typin' skills???

I feel like I am contributing some quality posts to this thread.

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

This thread: unreadable since page-3

guys, are you just tryin' to improve your typin' skills???

I feel like I am contributing some quality posts to this thread.

yours were informative

but those 9-12 line hate-bitching posts are unbearable.

JoeTyler said:

This thread: unreadable since page-3

guys, are you just tryin' to improve your typin' skills???

I swear it's like they're trying to start a soap opera to see who can scream the loudest.

JoeTyler said:

rialb said:

I feel like I am contributing some quality posts to this thread.

yours were informative

but those 9-12 line hate-bitching posts are unbearable.

Sweet vindication.

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

This thread: unreadable since page-3

guys, are you just tryin' to improve your typin' skills???

I swear it's like they're trying to start a soap opera to see who can scream the loudest.

JoeTyler said:

This thread: unreadable since page-3

guys, are you just tryin' to improve your typin' skills???

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

This thread: unreadable since page-3

guys, are you just tryin' to improve your typin' skills???

I swear it's like they're trying to start a soap opera to see who can scream the loudest.

TrevorAyer said:

Timmy84 said:

I swear it's like they're trying to start a soap opera to see who can scream the loudest.

Are y'all gonna be fighting in the mud and shit?

hhhhdmt said:

TrevorAyer said:

hmmmpth u are a shit stirrir for sure if there ever was one and no .. what i said was that stevie wonder blows prince out of the water on drums .. and he does .. i also said prince sucks at rap and he does so you cant say hes is awesome in sooo many genres when he sucks at most of them .. classical, rap and jazz being formost .. go ahead and make up your delusional script that never happened .. ur full of shit with anything you attempt to reiterate that I said ..

no troll boy, there is no way to actually prove this unless the two of them got togethar to play. You did compare his drumming to Kurt cobain and said that prince wasnt a "real drummer". Studio engineers who have actually worked with him think he is either a competent drummer or good at it, yet you claim that he "dabbles" in drumming. what a troll. You were owned on that thread when you made that ridicolous post.

Prince does not "suck" at most genres. He has never claimed to be a jazz player, he plays some jazz fusion stuff. I can say that he is good at many genres. You know why? Because he had had hits in multiple genres, his pop/rock/funk r&b and disco songs have either been hits or been covered by respected musicians. Just because he isnt good at rapping doesnt mean he "sucks" at most genres. He is really good in most genres that he does. So troll boy, keep whining. Most critics gave Gold great reviews, and the majority of prince fans like it.

stevie wonder blew prince out of the water on drums, thats not an opinion that's fact! listen to superstition! and stfu with this "owning" nonsense, do u realise how childish it sounds?

robertgeorgeakabob said:

hhhhdmt said:

no troll boy, there is no way to actually prove this unless the two of them got togethar to play. You did compare his drumming to Kurt cobain and said that prince wasnt a "real drummer". Studio engineers who have actually worked with him think he is either a competent drummer or good at it, yet you claim that he "dabbles" in drumming. what a troll. You were owned on that thread when you made that ridicolous post.

Prince does not "suck" at most genres. He has never claimed to be a jazz player, he plays some jazz fusion stuff. I can say that he is good at many genres. You know why? Because he had had hits in multiple genres, his pop/rock/funk r&b and disco songs have either been hits or been covered by respected musicians. Just because he isnt good at rapping doesnt mean he "sucks" at most genres. He is really good in most genres that he does. So troll boy, keep whining. Most critics gave Gold great reviews, and the majority of prince fans like it.

stevie wonder blew prince out of the water on drums, thats not an opinion that's fact! listen to superstition! and stfu with this "owning" nonsense, do u realise how childish it sounds?

dont tell me to stfu, you need to stfu. No it isnt childish at all, all he is doing is trolling the forum. I left this thread anyway and realise i went off topic. Its not fact by the way, both prince and stevie are competent drummers, and even if you think stevie is better at it, he doesnt by any means "blow" prince on that instrument, try listening to madhouse 8 , crystal ball etc

hhhhdmt said:

robertgeorgeakabob said:

stevie wonder blew prince out of the water on drums, thats not an opinion that's fact! listen to superstition! and stfu with this "owning" nonsense, do u realise how childish it sounds?

dont tell me to stfu, you need to stfu. No it isnt childish at all, all he is doing is trolling the forum. I left this thread anyway and realise i went off topic. Its not fact by the way, both prince and stevie are competent drummers, and even if you think stevie is better at it, he doesnt by any means "blow" prince on that instrument, try listening to madhouse 8 , crystal ball etc

i've listened to all prince's drumming and stevie's. i'm a drummer and i'm telling u stevie shits on prince. prince is a good drummer to a point, but he's very limited, there's alot of styles he just can't play, his drumming on a million days is awful. u see any criticism of prince as trolling when in reality you're so sycophantic you can't be objective, so i repeat.....STFU

robertgeorgeakabob said:

hhhhdmt said:

dont tell me to stfu, you need to stfu. No it isnt childish at all, all he is doing is trolling the forum. I left this thread anyway and realise i went off topic. Its not fact by the way, both prince and stevie are competent drummers, and even if you think stevie is better at it, he doesnt by any means "blow" prince on that instrument, try listening to madhouse 8 , crystal ball etc

i've listened to all prince's drumming and stevie's. i'm a drummer and i'm telling u stevie shits on prince. prince is a good drummer to a point, but he's very limited, there's alot of styles he just can't play, his drumming on a million days is awful. u see any criticism of prince as trolling when in reality you're so sycophantic you can't be objective, so i repeat.....STFU

actually i am objective. I never said prince is dennis chambers or anything, all i said was that he is a competent drummer. Comparing prince's drumming to Kurt cobain is trolling, its not a criticism. Claiming the gold experience was a "contract filler" is trolling. So you decided to name one song where his drumming isnt good and that means it hasnt been good his entire carrear?

I am not the biggest fan of Stevie Wonder, though i respect him alot as a musician, and he's just as talented as prince, maybe even more. From the footage i saw of him drumming, he seemed pretty good but i never thought he was outstanding drummer. As far as playing different styles, he plays the styles that suit his music and thats all he needs. I am not sycophantic, if you can't see his troll posts than i can't help you. So STFU