anyway, TGE was one of his stronger albums of the 90's. I still say that he played catch-up during that era. In the 80's, Prince was the trendsetter who created the minneapolis sound. After lovesexy, Prince panicked and lost his sense of direction.

TrevorAyer said:

hhhhdmt said:

No, you are wrong all the time, not me. You were the one who was owned when you dismissed Prince's drumming as "dabbling" and compared it to Kurt Cobains drumming. Instead of telling me to stop picking fight, why dont you go cry, whine and troll on some other forum. Gold is a great album and is regarded so by the vasy majority of fans and critics. I have never been owned the way you were on that thread regarding his drumming. . So please, get lost. Anyone who compares prince's drumming to a non drummer like Kurt Cobain or claims that there are "hundreds of thousands" of "far more talented" musicians than him is trolling. You are just a bitter and whiny troll who will never have anywhere near the talent and success that prince has had.

Not to mention your equally absurd post on Prince "failing" to do most genres well. Yeah, the man has had multiple hits in different genres, his pop/rock/funk and r&b tunes have been covered by respected musicians. Or the even more absurd post about Sheila e being the only "real musician" he has worked with in "years". Yeah John Blackwell isnt a real musician, right? You are nothing but a troll who doesnt add anything constructive to this forum other than whining about the 80's being gone.

[Edited 7/19/11 14:06pm]

hmmmpth u are a shit stirrir for sure if there ever was one and no .. what i said was that stevie wonder blows prince out of the water on drums .. and he does .. i also said prince sucks at rap and he does so you cant say hes is awesome in sooo many genres when he sucks at most of them .. classical, rap and jazz being formost .. go ahead and make up your delusional script that never happened .. ur full of shit with anything you attempt to reiterate that I said ..

no troll boy, there is no way to actually prove this unless the two of them got togethar to play. You did compare his drumming to Kurt cobain and said that prince wasnt a "real drummer". Studio engineers who have actually worked with him think he is either a competent drummer or good at it, yet you claim that he "dabbles" in drumming. what a troll. You were owned on that thread when you made that ridicolous post.

Prince does not "suck" at most genres. He has never claimed to be a jazz player, he plays some jazz fusion stuff. I can say that he is good at many genres. You know why? Because he had had hits in multiple genres, his pop/rock/funk r&b and disco songs have either been hits or been covered by respected musicians. Just because he isnt good at rapping doesnt mean he "sucks" at most genres. He is really good in most genres that he does. So troll boy, keep whining. Most critics gave Gold great reviews, and the majority of prince fans like it.

lezama said:

V10LETBLUES said:

I will have to disagree. No amount of promotion other than payola would have had an impact on sales.In 1995 Prince was by far was the most recognizable act of the top 20 albums that year. That he was outsold by obscure, indie, and new artists that year tells the entire story.

Your argument doesnt really make sense. The top SELLING songs and albums of 95 were people like Celine Dion, Queen, Hootie & The Blowfish, Coolio, TLC, Boys II Men, Bon Jovi, Kenny G etc. Not the albums you listed. Quality music in the music industry doesn't equate to sales. Otherwise TGE would have done a lot better than many of the top 20 albums that year.

It proves my point exactly. Prince was a bigger artist than Coolio, Hootie, TLC, Boys II.....new and obscure artists, and they all outsold him. Prince had something none of these artists had, a fan base of millions and instant name recognition. I never put the sole emphasis on sales when talking about top albums of '95.

We cannot blame Warners Bro. In fact, after this thread I have a lot more respect for WB. They had a no win situation with 90's Prince.

[Edited 7/20/11 6:28am]

Couple of things... I've skimmed, I freely admit, but:

1. The most important album Prince released in the 90s was Exodus.

2. Come and TGE were one and the same project (two halves if you like) and needed the oxygen of each other to survive and flourish. They weren't given it and they died.

3. Stop mentioning Oasis on this site... those faux glam rock merchants don't count... full stop.

4. The O(> album is marvellous and, I believe, has less filler on it than most believe it does.

5. Come and TGE are both wonderful albums, but not masterpieces.

6. Oasis were and are still irrelevant.... yes, I was a Blur admirer.

Oh, and through all my skimming, the thing of it is, no one has mentioned Exodus as being Princ truly important release of the 90s. It was avaunt purple (I love that 86 interview) and bloody brilliant. A much more rounded and more artistic album than either Come or TGE.

IMHO.

V10LETBLUES said:

lezama said:

Your argument doesnt really make sense. The top SELLING songs and albums of 95 were people like Celine Dion, Queen, Hootie & The Blowfish, Coolio, TLC, Boys II Men, Bon Jovi, Kenny G etc. Not the albums you listed. Quality music in the music industry doesn't equate to sales. Otherwise TGE would have done a lot better than many of the top 20 albums that year.

It proves my point exactly. Prince was a bigger artist that Coolio, Hootie, TLC, Boys II.....new and obscure artists, and they all outsold him. Prince had something none of these artists had, a fan base of millions and name instant recognition. I never put the sole emphasis on sales when talking about top albums of '95.

We cannot blame Warners Bro. In fact, after this thread I have a lot more respect for WB. They had a no win situation with 90's Prince.

yeah, I agree, 1995 was the turning point. Since then, you can enter the era of "bitter yesterday's news man", at least until 2004...

thedance said:

Yeah - "Come" & "The Gold Experience" are fantastic,

I really like those 2 mid 90's albums...

what came after was a bit messy, unfortunately.

Yep. That's pretty precisely my opinion as well.

Though is still a neat, sexy, schizophrenic little album, that I love like I love a daughter's awfully badly drawn ten legged horse with all its colors all smudged and lumpy.

V10LETBLUES said:

GustavoRibas said:

- Prince overproduced his stuff most of the times (with few exceptions). He always loved keys and programmed beats. It´s easier to sound dated this way. And Prince seems to never have truly cared about it.

But to me it is much more than that. In the comparison to his 1995 contemporaries, Prince was talking down to his audience, musically and lyrically, while the best artists of 1995 were doing none of that. Prince was seemingly catering to the NKOTB crowd for whatever reason, instead pushing forward. No one likes to be talked down to, and I think the lack of sales to his millions of fans reflected that.

Question: In what way is TGE anything at all like NKOTB?

Answer: Zilch! Zero! Nada! There are ZERO similarities to compare!

You can talk about it being dated, forced, pandering, etc... But, when you compare the album to NKOTB, you lose ALL credibility. You're so far off base you're not even in the discussion.

NKOTB... you so crazy!

TrevorAyer said:

the gold experience was officially when prince lost his mojo completely ... he went from 2-3 brilliant songs per record down to 1 or 2 songs per record that don't make you cringe all the way thru .. nothing brilliant tho .. i loved what he was doing with the political record label war and his internet experiments but musically something really flew out the window from this point forward .. had the gold experience never been released, i would hope all the records that came after would not have been released either and his legacy would have grown intact .. this record was proof that prince was only as good as his collaborators and his overall team .. once that influence was gone and he had total freedom, his ego made the music, not his heart, and it hit a p diddy level of superficial inflated crap music .. prince should have released a proper crystal ball outtakes set instead of gold and ended his career right there like he claimed he was doing at the time .. we can only hope for a proper remaster of the wb years with tony m edited out and the right outtakes added to each disk .. with any luck we and prince will forget everything on gold and everything that came after ... its a blessing to prince legacy that those records are all out of print .. lets hope that the "new" prince schlock goes out of print too

Clueless drabble....

djThunderfunk said:

V10LETBLUES said:

But to me it is much more than that. In the comparison to his 1995 contemporaries, Prince was talking down to his audience, musically and lyrically, while the best artists of 1995 were doing none of that. Prince was seemingly catering to the NKOTB crowd for whatever reason, instead pushing forward. No one likes to be talked down to, and I think the lack of sales to his millions of fans reflected that.

Question: In what way is TGE anything at all like NKOTB?

Answer: Zilch! Zero! Nada! There are ZERO similarities to compare!

You can talk about it being dated, forced, pandering, etc... But, when you compare the album to NKOTB, you lose ALL credibility. You're so far off base you're not even in the discussion.

NKOTB... you so crazy!

The term NKOTB was merely implying that he was pandering to a much younger audience.

bobbyperu said:

Is everybody forgetting what the real deal was back in those days? The ownership of mastertapes! That's why Prince did not want to be Prince anymore and called himself a slave and all that. TGE is a good LP that suffered from the silly war between P and WB.

The real problem was that prince didn't read his new record deal before he signed it.

TrevorAyer said:

This thread should be called ' The impotence of "the Gold Experience"'.

You fumbled the any last ounce of legitimacy you had when you said Prince was only as good as his collaborators....No disrespect, but you should stop discussing things you know nothing about...

the troll-like techniques embedded in the title of this thread entice the reader to think that a meaningful discussion of the album will follow...only 4 fans 2 find out that it was a sly entrapment in Prince bashing

[Edited 7/20/11 8:50am]

ludwig said:

JoeTyler said:

Just imagine for a second if Prince had not released TGE in 1995. Wow, what a controversial decade

I mean:

GB: awful movie, the soundtrack still divides fans ("the original version of some songs sound better, too many non-Prince tracks", bla bla etc.)

D&P: too poppy for many fans, too much filler...

: I personally think is a masterpiece, but for many fans this album is a mess

Come: too dark and patchy for many people, out of print...

Chaos & Disorder: lame Lenny Kravitz-wannabe album, a throwaway...out of print now...

Emancipation: too much, 3 cd's is too much, some good ones, but too many beyawful songs, and bland production. Isn't that the consensus? out of print?

after that, wow, NPS, Kamasutra, Truth, Vault, Rave... All of them out of print

so, what's left? TGE. Easily the best album he did in the 90's, and the biggest proof that the decade was not a complete waste (I actually like 91-95 a lot, anyway)

seriously, what's not like here? TGE is a flawless album. Still fresh, still strong, still kick-ass. Perhaps the saddest thing is that this album is not only underrated and out of print: it's FORGOTTEN. At least the future generations will be able to rediscover this album...

discuss...

GB was a terrible movie, but the soundtrack is awesome. I've always loved it.

Personally, I love D&P (all of it) and (every song). Come and Chaos and Disorder are good albums and so is Emancipation (maybe a few fillers on that one). Rave is so-so and I LOVE the Truth cd. I remember when TGE came out and I ran to the record store to buy it. I thought it was great then and I still do today.

V10LETBLUES said:

It proves my point exactly. Prince was a bigger artist than Coolio, Hootie, TLC, Boys II.....new and obscure artists, and they all outsold him. Prince had something none of these artists had, a fan base of millions and instant name recognition. I never put the sole emphasis on sales when talking about top albums of '95.

We cannot blame Warners Bro. In fact, after this thread I have a lot more respect for WB. They had a no win situation with 90's Prince.

[Edited 7/20/11 6:28am]

To be fair, this is/was often the case.

Was there a bigger/more famous artist than Prince in 1985? Arguably, no. Yet look at a list of the top 10 selling albums/songs of 1985. Look at the acts above Prince.

http://www.billboard.com/...?year=1985

hhhhdmt said:

TrevorAyer said:

hmmmpth u are a shit stirrir for sure if there ever was one and no .. what i said was that stevie wonder blows prince out of the water on drums .. and he does .. i also said prince sucks at rap and he does so you cant say hes is awesome in sooo many genres when he sucks at most of them .. classical, rap and jazz being formost .. go ahead and make up your delusional script that never happened .. ur full of shit with anything you attempt to reiterate that I said ..

no troll boy, there is no way to actually prove this unless the two of them got togethar to play. You did compare his drumming to Kurt cobain and said that prince wasnt a "real drummer". Studio engineers who have actually worked with him think he is either a competent drummer or good at it, yet you claim that he "dabbles" in drumming. what a troll. You were owned on that thread when you made that ridicolous post.

Prince does not "suck" at most genres. He has never claimed to be a jazz player, he plays some jazz fusion stuff. I can say that he is good at many genres. You know why? Because he had had hits in multiple genres, his pop/rock/funk r&b and disco songs have either been hits or been covered by respected musicians. Just because he isnt good at rapping doesnt mean he "sucks" at most genres. He is really good in most genres that he does. So troll boy, keep whining. Most critics gave Gold great reviews, and the majority of prince fans like it.

i know ignorance is a challenge sometimes but simply try putting on a record stevie wonder drummed on and compare it to prince drumming .. that should do the trick for ya .. since they aren't gonna have a drum off just for the sake of your ignorance .. i never compared prince drumming to kurt cobain drumming .. just mentioned that many musicians are multi instrumentalists who dabble in other instruments other than their primary instruement .. which is completely true .. I can walk down the street in my little town and find tons of multiinstrumentalists playing in local bars, I am sure it is more so on the larger scale that prince is at .. prince is talented but comparing him to even the most moderate studio drummer who actually plays drums for hours every day practicing .. prince is clearly a dabbler who hits a good groove for about 5 minutes long enough to record it. but his amature drumming is obvious to many .. respectable, fun enjoyable, but still very amature .. you hhhmmmtghth are just kind of a jerk who stalks every post i make that disagrees with your opinion .. and lets be clear .. i loved gold when it came out .. so i get that some of you like it .. it just doesn't hold up well at all .. and it kinda makes me not like prince .. furthermore .. it was during his slave era .. do you really think he put his best material on that record .. it was contract filler at that point and should be seen as such .. if even prince does not like the music on it, how can you justify yourself with your opinions just because he got some mediocre reviews when it came out. .. well considering you are arguing with your own dilusion of what my opinion is i suppose there is no sense making any sense to you .. prince WAS good at pop .. he adds elements sometimes succesfully but he is no master of numerous genres by a long long long shot .. eventually you will find his lyrics on gold to be embarassing .. until then you will ignore your self respect and continue to harrass me and likely others who disagree with you .. carry on .. you will derail enough threads with your stalking harrassing and abusive demeanor that you will be banned eventually

TrevorAyer said:

hhhhdmt said:

no troll boy, there is no way to actually prove this unless the two of them got togethar to play. You did compare his drumming to Kurt cobain and said that prince wasnt a "real drummer". Studio engineers who have actually worked with him think he is either a competent drummer or good at it, yet you claim that he "dabbles" in drumming. what a troll. You were owned on that thread when you made that ridicolous post.

Prince does not "suck" at most genres. He has never claimed to be a jazz player, he plays some jazz fusion stuff. I can say that he is good at many genres. You know why? Because he had had hits in multiple genres, his pop/rock/funk r&b and disco songs have either been hits or been covered by respected musicians. Just because he isnt good at rapping doesnt mean he "sucks" at most genres. He is really good in most genres that he does. So troll boy, keep whining. Most critics gave Gold great reviews, and the majority of prince fans like it.

i know ignorance is a challenge sometimes but simply try putting on a record stevie wonder drummed on and compare it to prince drumming .. that should do the trick for ya .. since they aren't gonna have a drum off just for the sake of your ignorance .. i never compared prince drumming to kurt cobain drumming .. just mentioned that many musicians are multi instrumentalists who dabble in other instruments other than their primary instruement .. which is completely true .. I can walk down the street in my little town and find tons of multiinstrumentalists playing in local bars, I am sure it is more so on the larger scale that prince is at .. prince is talented but comparing him to even the most moderate studio drummer who actually plays drums for hours every day practicing .. prince is clearly a dabbler who hits a good groove for about 5 minutes long enough to record it. but his amature drumming is obvious to many .. respectable, fun enjoyable, but still very amature .. you hhhmmmtghth are just kind of a jerk who stalks every post i make that disagrees with your opinion .. and lets be clear .. i loved gold when it came out .. so i get that some of you like it .. it just doesn't hold up well at all .. and it kinda makes me not like prince .. furthermore .. it was during his slave era .. do you really think he put his best material on that record .. it was contract filler at that point and should be seen as such .. if even prince does not like the music on it, how can you justify yourself with your opinions just because he got some mediocre reviews when it came out. .. well considering you are arguing with your own dilusion of what my opinion is i suppose there is no sense making any sense to you .. prince WAS good at pop .. he adds elements sometimes succesfully but he is no master of numerous genres by a long long long shot .. eventually you will find his lyrics on gold to be embarassing .. until then you will ignore your self respect and continue to harrass me and likely others who disagree with you .. carry on .. you will derail enough threads with your stalking harrassing and abusive demeanor that you will be banned eventually

sorry, but prince is not a dabbler. He is a competent drummer, not an amateur. He is one of the best one man bands in the world and none of your troll posts are ever going to change it. He is a master of numerous genres, as he has had hits and or critically acclaimed songs in several genres and his pop/rock/funk and rnb tunes have been covered by respected musicians.

By the way, most multi instrumentalists are not on prince's level. Very few actually are. There is more than enough evidence (video, audio and the opinions of studio engineers) that prince is a competent pro drummer so your troll posts will not change anything. He does not dabble in it, he knows how to play guitar, bass, piano and drums at A PRO LEVEL. You are just a jealous troll who will try to discredit prince in anyway. Gold is not embarrasing, it got great reviews. Learn to read. And the studio engineers who have claimed he is a competent drummer are not idiots. You are. Most people here do not see him as an "amateur" drummer, it is pretty much agreed that he is a competent drummer.

before accusing others of ignorance, please take a look at your own ignorance

http://www.google.com/cse...;sa=Search

read the second post on the 7th page of the multi instrumentalist thread. Interesting that you didnt even bother to reply to it because you were owned on it. He doesnt "dabble", he plays them competently. Sorry if it hurts you how mega talented prince is.

I am not a jerk. You are a troll who constantly tries to make prince out to be some ordinary musician, who cannot play drums, is a "boring session" guitarist. Not to mention your balant lies about songwriting. Sorry but he is one of the best multi instrumentalists in the world, a competent drummer, an amazing musician and yes he is a master of many genres. Its a shame you are so jealous that you keep trying to discredit him.

and who are the "many" people who see him as an amateur drummer? And how is TGE 'contract filler"? where are the "mediocre reviews" that it got? Most of the reviews i read afre overwhelmingly positive. Ofcourse a troll like you will not respond because you know you have been owned. Nobody here sees him as an amateur drummer who "dabbles" in drumming except you and a couple of other idiotic trolls. Maybe you should go back to primary school and learn to read. You dont know more about his drumming than actual studio engineers, Miles davis etc who all praised him as either a competent or a good drummer. Care to respond? No, because you know you are wrong

[Edited 7/20/11 12:34pm]

[Edited 7/20/11 12:43pm]

[Edited 7/20/11 12:51pm]

[Edited 7/21/11 5:21am]

skywalker said:

V10LETBLUES said:

It proves my point exactly. Prince was a bigger artist than Coolio, Hootie, TLC, Boys II.....new and obscure artists, and they all outsold him. Prince had something none of these artists had, a fan base of millions and instant name recognition. I never put the sole emphasis on sales when talking about top albums of '95.

We cannot blame Warners Bro. In fact, after this thread I have a lot more respect for WB. They had a no win situation with 90's Prince.

[Edited 7/20/11 6:28am]

To be fair, this is/was often the case.

Was there a bigger/more famous artist than Prince in 1985? Arguably, no. Yet look at a list of the top 10 selling albums/songs of 1985. Look at the acts above Prince.

http://www.billboard.com/...?year=1985

Difference was, in 1985 he still made critics and readers top 10 lists. By 95 that was not the case anymore.

Wow, what does Prince´s and Stevie´s drumming have to do with TGE? Prince is a solid drummer (check the ending of ´Glass Cutter´ and the song ´Cybersingle´). Stevie is too. IMO, Stevie only kicks Prince´s ass on piano. I saw him playing ´Giant Steps´ and it´s a very hard song to improvise, even for pianists-only. But music isnt competition. Both are great multi-instrumentalists.

About TGE, I only dont like parts of the production. Some of the cheesy keys and programming. Unfortunately it´s part of Prince (let´s compare the live version of ´Fury´ with the 3121 version). But on the other hand, I believe he achieved great results with live band. I believe his battle against WB was the main factor that ´killed´ the its commercial potential.

[Edited 7/20/11 13:20pm]

GustavoRibas said:

Wow, what does Prince´s and Stevie´s drumming have to do with TGE? Prince is a solid drummer (check the ending of ´Glass Cutter´ and the song ´Cybersingle´). Stevie is too. IMO, Stevie only kicks Prince´s ass on piano. I saw him playing ´Giant Steps´ and it´s a very hard song to improvise, even for pianists-only. But music isnt competition. Both are great multi-instrumentalists.

About TGE, I only dont like parts of the production. Some of the cheesy keys and programming. Unfortunately it´s part of Prince (let´s compare the live version of ´Fury´ with the 3121 version). But on the other hand, I believe he achieved great results with live band. I believe his battle against WB was the main factor that ´killed´ the its commercial potential.

[Edited 7/20/11 13:20pm]

People just wanna talk shit to distract from the original topic.

V10LETBLUES said:

djThunderfunk said:

Question: In what way is TGE anything at all like NKOTB?

Answer: Zilch! Zero! Nada! There are ZERO similarities to compare!

You can talk about it being dated, forced, pandering, etc... But, when you compare the album to NKOTB, you lose ALL credibility. You're so far off base you're not even in the discussion.

NKOTB... you so crazy!

The term NKOTB was merely implying that he was pandering to a much younger audience.

NO! Mainstream pop audience, maybe. Younger audience, No, No, No.

P Control, Endorphinmachine, 319, Shhh & Billy Jack Bitch are in no way aimed at the young NKOTB audience.

Eye Hate U? Not a chance. Dolphin? Doubtful.

Also, TGE doesn't sound anything like NKOTB so that doesn't work either.

If we were talking about Musicology I might agree, Not for Gold...

Definitely wasn't New Kids type of material. THE FUCK!?

V10LETBLUES said:

lezama said:

Your argument doesnt really make sense. The top SELLING songs and albums of 95 were people like Celine Dion, Queen, Hootie & The Blowfish, Coolio, TLC, Boys II Men, Bon Jovi, Kenny G etc. Not the albums you listed. Quality music in the music industry doesn't equate to sales. Otherwise TGE would have done a lot better than many of the top 20 albums that year.

It proves my point exactly. Prince was a bigger artist than Coolio, Hootie, TLC, Boys II.....new and obscure artists, and they all outsold him. Prince had something none of these artists had, a fan base of millions and instant name recognition. I never put the sole emphasis on sales when talking about top albums of '95.

We cannot blame Warners Bro. In fact, after this thread I have a lot more respect for WB. They had a no win situation with 90's Prince.

[Edited 7/20/11 6:28am]

I dont know if u understood my point. You were equating music sales with quality music. You said TGE sucked/commercial etc and that the proof was how badly it sold. Thats what Im saying were two separate issues. The reason it didnt sell on par with what it could have has been thoroughly discussed in this thread by Rialb and others. They had to do with business/professional decisions made by Prince. The best way to analyze this isn't by comparing Tricky with Prince or Hootie & the Blowfish with Prince, but by comparing what Prince sold when he was still playing nice with WB (e.g. D&P) and what he sold once he started to not promote himself or do what was necessary for the industry to push his music.

As for your final statement. Fair enough, but there's two sides to that equation. What Prince went through then has today become more and more common. Many more artists won't enter those types of record deals anymore where middle men are taking 90% or more of the profit from record sales and many see that as a good thing.

lezama said:

V10LETBLUES said:

It proves my point exactly. Prince was a bigger artist than Coolio, Hootie, TLC, Boys II.....new and obscure artists, and they all outsold him. Prince had something none of these artists had, a fan base of millions and instant name recognition. I never put the sole emphasis on sales when talking about top albums of '95.

We cannot blame Warners Bro. In fact, after this thread I have a lot more respect for WB. They had a no win situation with 90's Prince.

[Edited 7/20/11 6:28am]

I dont know if u understood my point. You were equating music sales with quality music. You said TGE sucked/commercial etc and that the proof was how badly it sold. Thats what Im saying were two separate issues. The reason it didnt sell on par with what it could have has been thoroughly discussed in this thread by Rialb and others. They had to do with business/professional decisions made by Prince. The best way to analyze this isn't by comparing Tricky with Prince or Hootie & the Blowfish with Prince, but by comparing what Prince sold when he was still playing nice with WB (e.g. D&P) and what he sold once he started to not promote himself or do what was necessary for the industry to push his music.

As for your final statement. Fair enough, but there's two sides to that equation. What Prince went through then has today become more and more common. Many more artists won't enter those types of record deals anymore where middle men are taking 90% or more of the profit from record sales and many see that as a good thing.

I never did that. My comparison was to the contemporaries of 95. I was disputing the notion that better WB promotion would have helped and I stated that not even only payola would have helped. But to the point about sales, all the artist I mentioned on the first list of some of the best acts of 95, surely did sell better than Prince, an established artist.

[Edited 7/20/11 15:53pm]

V10LETBLUES said:

skywalker said:

To be fair, this is/was often the case.

Was there a bigger/more famous artist than Prince in 1985? Arguably, no. Yet look at a list of the top 10 selling albums/songs of 1985. Look at the acts above Prince.

http://www.billboard.com/...?year=1985

Difference was, in 1985 he still made critics and readers top 10 lists. By 95 that was not the case anymore.

1. Critic and reader top 10 lists count for what?

2. How many reader/critic top 10 lists did Around the World in a Day make?

V10LETBLUES said:

lezama said:

I dont know if u understood my point. You were equating music sales with quality music. You said TGE sucked/commercial etc and that the proof was how badly it sold. Thats what Im saying were two separate issues. The reason it didnt sell on par with what it could have has been thoroughly discussed in this thread by Rialb and others. They had to do with business/professional decisions made by Prince. The best way to analyze this isn't by comparing Tricky with Prince or Hootie & the Blowfish with Prince, but by comparing what Prince sold when he was still playing nice with WB (e.g. D&P) and what he sold once he started to not promote himself or do what was necessary for the industry to push his music.

As for your final statement. Fair enough, but there's two sides to that equation. What Prince went through then has today become more and more common. Many more artists won't enter those types of record deals anymore where middle men are taking 90% or more of the profit from record sales and many see that as a good thing.

I never did that. My comparison was to the contemporaries of 95. I was disputing the notion that better WB promotion would have helped and I stated that not even only payola would have helped. But to the point about sales, all the artist I mentioned on the first list of some of the best acts of 95, surely did sell better than Prince, and established artist.

The acts that sold better than in 1995 Prince weren't "at war" with their own label and sabotaging their own promotion. People buy what's promoted. Prince's best selling albums are his best promoted. If The Gold Experience would have been pushed like Diamonds and Pearls it would have sold a hell of a lot more. Compare Prince's promos/tv appearances in 1991 to 1995.

[Edited 7/20/11 15:50pm]

V10LETBLUES said:

I never did that. My comparison was to the contemporaries of 95. I was disputing the notion that better WB promotion would have helped and I stated that not even only payola would have helped. But to the point about sales, all the artist I mentioned on the first list of some of the best acts of 95, surely did sell better than Prince, an established artist.

[Edited 7/20/11 15:53pm]

- Let´s not forget that the world changed in the 90s. Androgyny wasnt cool anymore, the bands sounded more ´raw´ than in the 80s (thanks to grunge), and some of the "best acts of 95" were younger and ´cooler´ than Prince for younger audiences. On the other hand, the more mature audience would probably dislike Prince´s flirt with hip hop and cheesy keys. They would go to Norah Jones, Sting, this kind of stuff.

When Prince released ´Musicology´, I really thought he was starting to try to build a fanbase between people who like "classic" stuff (Marvin Gaye, EWF and such).

[Edited 7/20/11 16:18pm]

Emancipation was a collection of songs that Prince wanted to promote .. Gold was not. (except Most Beautiful Girl)