JoeTyler said:

Just imagine for a second if Prince had not released TGE in 1995. Wow, what a controversial decade

I mean:

GB: awful movie, the soundtrack still divides fans ("the original version of some songs sound better, too many non-Prince tracks", bla bla etc.)

D&P: too poppy for many fans, too much filler...

: I personally think is a masterpiece, but for many fans this album is a mess

Come: too dark and patchy for many people, out of print...

Chaos & Disorder: lame Lenny Kravitz-wannabe album, a throwaway...out of print now...

Emancipation: too much, 3 cd's is too much, some good ones, but too many beyawful songs, and bland production. Isn't that the consensus? out of print?

after that, wow, NPS, Kamasutra, Truth, Vault, Rave... All of them out of print

[img:$uid]http://mystarbucks.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/the_cat_is_pushing_a_watermelon_out_of_a_lake.jpg[/img:$uid]

mplsmike said:

JoeTyler said:

Just imagine for a second if Prince had not released TGE in 1995. Wow, what a controversial decade

I mean:

GB: awful movie, the soundtrack still divides fans ("the original version of some songs sound better, too many non-Prince tracks", bla bla etc.)

D&P: too poppy for many fans, too much filler...

: I personally think is a masterpiece, but for many fans this album is a mess

Come: too dark and patchy for many people, out of print...

Chaos & Disorder: lame Lenny Kravitz-wannabe album, a throwaway...out of print now...

Emancipation: too much, 3 cd's is too much, some good ones, but too many beyawful songs, and bland production. Isn't that the consensus? out of print?

after that, wow, NPS, Kamasutra, Truth, Vault, Rave... All of them out of print

[img:$uid]http://mystarbucks.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/the_cat_is_pushing_a_watermelon_out_of_a_lake.jpg[/img:$uid]

yes please, get the hell outta here

Interesting topic this, I personally prefer Come and C&D as albums, I never really liked the studio version of TGE, but I had seen the concerts before I got the CD and preferred the live versions, which were packed with energy and a rawness that was rare in the 90´s with Prince. recently I got ahold of The dawn project, some of the footage in that is incredible, I think you can really see with hindsight, where Prince was coming from regarding the music industry, i think he spotted the flaw in releasing overproduced plastic albums, which the industry wants to make the dollars on, ie, compare Nirvana´s Bleach with Nevermind, Oasis´s debut album to Morning Glory and so on.

Look at what he gives away free, PE or 20ten are awful, but Prince knows that, at the concerts he will play some of them songs, then you realise how good they are, but only live.

He has taken alot of risks doing this, but they are paying off, he has got nothing but superlatives since Hopfarm, only the Foo Fighters have caused a bigger stir, and rightly so, they are incredible live...

I guess the most important part of all this is, artists like Prince, Dave Grohl and co, they know where it is at and I fear they are the last pillars of sanity left in the music (industry)

"The Gold Experience" was Prince's last truly funk, pop and rock masterpiece.

This fine album is superior, it just includes so many genres... incredible how 1 artist is able to cover so many different genres on 1 album, it is really amazing.

What came after TGE has not been that funky.

TGE is the Sign "O" The Times of the 1990's.

rialb said:

savagedreams said:

so he should have done nothing to draw anttention to the fact that he had a great album but his record company wouldnt release it? should he have just sat quetly at home waiting for the call from warner bros to say it was ok for him to get to work?

Warner Brothers wanted him to get to work. He had a brand new album out (Come) that he did absolutely nothing to promote. Instead he poured all of his energy into playing songs from an album that was not available. It was Prince who decided that he wanted to release both Come and The Gold Experience. I'm sure that Warner Brothers would have been delighted to scrap Come altogether and release The Gold Experience in its place.

No - the issue is that Prince wanted to release TGE very soon after Come but WB said no as they couldn't sell them as quickly as he was churning them out. They wanted to withold his releases so they could promote the existing ones. That is partly why he got mad and painted Slave on his face as he felt they were supressing his creative outlet...

[Edited 7/17/11 2:23am]

TheFreakerFantastic said:

rialb said:

Warner Brothers wanted him to get to work. He had a brand new album out (Come) that he did absolutely nothing to promote. Instead he poured all of his energy into playing songs from an album that was not available. It was Prince who decided that he wanted to release both Come and The Gold Experience. I'm sure that Warner Brothers would have been delighted to scrap Come altogether and release The Gold Experience in its place.

No - the issue is that Prince wanted to release TGE very soon after Come but WB said no as they couldn't sell them as quickly as he was churning them out. They wanted to withold his releases so they could promote the existing ones. That is partly why he got mad and painted Slave on his face as he felt they were supressing his creative outlet...

[Edited 7/17/11 2:23am]

Hmm, I don't see how what you are saying is any different than what I said. The issue that Warner Brothers had was that Prince wanted to release both albums simultaneously but they also wanted him to promote the album that they did release (Come) which he singularly failed to do. What's funny is that there was some recent precedent for artists to release two albums simultaneously. Guns N' Roses did it with Use Your Illusion I and Use Your Illusion II and Bruce Springsteen also did it with Human Touch and Lucky Town. I guess the difference was that it had been several years since they had released a new album while with Prince it had been less than two years since he released . Their labels probably felt that they could easily sell two albums at the same time while Warner Brothers likely did not feel the same. In retrospect they probably should have just released both albums when Prince wanted them to. Come almost certainly would have sold significantly less but The Gold Experience would likely have been a bigger hit than it was and may have helped Come to sell more than it did. Plus had the album been released in 1994 we may have been blessed with a cowbell free version of "Endorphinmachine" and "Days of Wild" would likely have been included on the album.

For me, and I think for a lot of fans, this will always be the biggest "what if" portion of Prince's career.

thedance said:

"The Gold Experience" was Prince's last truly funk, pop and rock masterpiece.

This fine album is superior, it just includes so many genres... incredible how 1 artist is able to cover so many different genres on 1 album, it is really amazing.

What came after TGE has not been that funky.

TGE is the Sign "O" The Times of the 1990's.

funny. I've never thought that TGE and SOTT are similar...

for me, TGE is 1999 and PR mixed together with a gloriously excessive mid-90's production...

but I do agree that it's his last "the man can do anything" album...at least until 3121...

Yeah, interesting POV. TGE has it's flaws, and I don't return to it hardly at all these days, but it is the most consistent post-name change album 90s album, and looking at the list in the OP, does seem to 'prop up' the period.

There's great material on most other releases of course, but TGE is definately the most cohesive set from this time period. is up there though, it's a bit long though, some fat needs trimming.

rialb said:

savagedreams said:

so he should have done nothing to draw anttention to the fact that he had a great album but his record company wouldnt release it? should he have just sat quetly at home waiting for the call from warner bros to say it was ok for him to get to work?

Warner Brothers wanted him to get to work. He had a brand new album out (Come) that he did absolutely nothing to promote. Instead he poured all of his energy into playing songs from an album that was not available. It was Prince who decided that he wanted to release both Come and The Gold Experience. I'm sure that Warner Brothers would have been delighted to scrap Come altogether and release The Gold Experience in its place.

it was warners that picked come over gold exp. not prince.

savagedreams said:

rialb said:

Warner Brothers wanted him to get to work. He had a brand new album out (Come) that he did absolutely nothing to promote. Instead he poured all of his energy into playing songs from an album that was not available. It was Prince who decided that he wanted to release both Come and The Gold Experience. I'm sure that Warner Brothers would have been delighted to scrap Come altogether and release The Gold Experience in its place.

it was warners that picked come over gold exp. not prince.

If that is true then they are a bunch of dummies. I suspect that Prince demanded that both albums needed to be released and it was him, not Warner Brothers, that wanted Come to be released first. Had he given them a choice I strongly suspect that they would have opted for The Gold Experience, especially if the version that was first submitted to them included "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World." I believe that "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World" was released in February, 1994 and Come was released in August, 1994. Surely had Warner Brothers had final say they would have opted to release the album that contained a huge hit single first? You can say a lot of nasty things about record labels but one thing they are good at is capitalising on a hit single in order to make as much money as possible.

I love that album. I think the album came out too late. Like some said it should've been out in 1994 to capitalize on the success of "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World", it would've helped "I Hate U" and "Gold" even more. Hell, he might've dropped his own version of "Shhh" and it would've been as much of a quiet storm classic as Tevin's rendition of it lol

JowiiCoco said:

Great songs, but I'm not too crazy about the production.

Yeah . . . .

V10LETBLUES said:

Let's put TGE in perspective.

Let's take a quick look at how ridiculously childish and dated Prince and TGE comes off in the field of it's 1995 contemporaries.

Radiohead-The Bends

Oasis- What's the Story Morning Glory

Tricky- Maxinquaye

The Smashing Pumpkins- Mellon Collie and The Infinite Sadness

Pulp- Different Class

Alanis Morissette- Jagged Little Pill

Bjork- Post

No Doubt- Tragic Kingdom

The Foofighters- The Foofighters

The Chemical Brothers- Exit Planet Dust

2Pac- Me Against the World

Garbage- Garbage

Red Hot Chilli Peppers- One Hot Minute

D'Angelo- Brown Sugar

...

...

...

Needless to say TGE did not make any critics or fan top lists in 1995 and rightfully so. Nor did it sell well either.

.....and this just a small sampling of the music of 1995. So let's not blame Warner Brothers for the record's failure. It's just a cheesy record, and 1995 had a lot better offerings than goofy pop-pop rock by an established artist pandering to what he believed kids would like. In the 80's Prince's music was the embodiment of cool, in the 90's it was just tired and dorky.

[Edited 7/16/11 10:46am]

I hate to say it, but I kind of agree. Pussy Control, We March, Now, 319, and Prince cursing for the sake of cursing makes the album sound dated and corny. On the other hand, Come was better and probably his best album of the 90's. TGE had some great songs on it, but like many other Prince albums in the 90's, it had some real stinkers. After, Lovesexy there hasn't been an album that you could listen to from beginning to end and be wowed.

I love that whole 90's experience. Prince at the height of weirdness. The biggest thing was that there was just an abundance of music.

Too much music? Too much ego? Rushed? Whatever, he was pumping it out faster than you could say "Have mercy!"...

There were always at least 2 things in coming out in circulation at once.

Graffriti-Diamonds-Goldnigga-1800-NEW-FUNK-O+>- TheHits&B-Sides-(Black Album)-Come-Exodus-The Gold Experience-TheUndertaker(If you could find it)...

That was all in 5 years with some of those being multi-disc CDs.

Not to mention the Remix CDs from many of those albums. Remember Violet the Organ Grinder, The Universal Love Remix of Space. The outtakes that never made the albums were brilliant as well. Acknowledge Me, etc..

Also, lots of projects with others as well (Mavis.etc)

That trend of abundance kept going for a few more years. Once he found the Internet around 96, it was mental for quite a while more. Those were some good albums. Personally, the albums felt like natural progressions to me. Come-Exodus-Gold. Just flowed for me. I still think Come is an essencial Prince album...

"Come" is definitely the best overall album of the 90's.

There is a lot of great material written in that decade, BUT, there is so much crap that you have to sift through to get to the gems...

I for one would have been happier with half of the output & a little quality control...

[Edited 7/17/11 19:35pm]

The 90s to me were the best music of his career. 4 of my favorite top 5 Prince albums are from this era

Top5 (in no order)

Purple Rain

chaos and disorder

gold

diamonds and pearls

symbol album

LOVE this era!!

"The Most Beautiful Girl in the World" was readymade for Sweet 16 parties, and they bought it 500 plays a day on Video Music Box. I guess you can call that a hit...?

rialb said:

savagedreams said:

it was warners that picked come over gold exp. not prince.

If that is true then they are a bunch of dummies. I suspect that Prince demanded that both albums needed to be released and it was him, not Warner Brothers, that wanted Come to be released first. Had he given them a choice I strongly suspect that they would have opted for The Gold Experience, especially if the version that was first submitted to them included "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World." I believe that "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World" was released in February, 1994 and Come was released in August, 1994. Surely had Warner Brothers had final say they would have opted to release the album that contained a huge hit single first? You can say a lot of nasty things about record labels but one thing they are good at is capitalising on a hit single in order to make as much money as possible.

do some research. its fact. prince gave them both albums. warners wouldnt release both at the same time. warners released come first. p wanted come released as prince & gold exp as . they refused, picked the album with his name instead of one with a crazy symbol with no name. thats a very condensed version but basically thats what it was.

[Edited 7/17/11 20:22pm]

savagedreams said:

rialb said:

If that is true then they are a bunch of dummies. I suspect that Prince demanded that both albums needed to be released and it was him, not Warner Brothers, that wanted Come to be released first. Had he given them a choice I strongly suspect that they would have opted for The Gold Experience, especially if the version that was first submitted to them included "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World." I believe that "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World" was released in February, 1994 and Come was released in August, 1994. Surely had Warner Brothers had final say they would have opted to release the album that contained a huge hit single first? You can say a lot of nasty things about record labels but one thing they are good at is capitalising on a hit single in order to make as much money as possible.

do some research. its fact. prince gave them both albums. warners wouldnt release both at the same time. warners released come first. p wanted come released as prince & gold exp as . they refused, picked the album with his name instead of one with a crazy symbol with no name. thats a very condensed version but basically thats what it was.

[Edited 7/17/11 20:22pm]

I have read that account in various books but I'm not sure that it's a fact. Can you offer solid proof that things went down exactly as you say? Who are the sources? I tend not to take Prince biographies to be holy scripture.

SUPRMAN said:

JowiiCoco said:

Great songs, but I'm not too crazy about the production.

Yeah . . . .

^ TGE:

Nothing is wrong with the production.....

Prince is a great producer, and I don't find TGE dated.. either.

To me this album will always be a Prince masterpiece, it's timeless.

This and Come, they are so motherf*cking great........

I this music, very dear to me....

I love the 90s Prince.

JowiiCoco said:

Great songs, but I'm not too crazy about the production.

Totally agree: some of his finest songs are on the album but so over-produced it is unbelievable. Endorphin Machine went from being a raging rock masterpiece to a watered down pop track. Still good but no longer great IMO.

I love the early to mid nineties myself too as a matter of fact. I think the Gold period was a really exciting time to be a fan actually.

rialb said:

I can't discuss The Gold Experience without wondering what might have been. Surely had it been released in 1994 in time to capitalise on the success of "The Most Beautiful Girl In the World" it would have sold better, probably enough to go platinum. It also would have made a big difference if the album had been available while Prince was promoting it. Those appearances where he played a track from the album and then said it was never going to be released did not do the album any favours. Maybe Prince is happy with the way things turned out but for me that was the point where Prince put a gun to the head of his career and pulled the trigger.

I agree.It would have made more sense to release this album in the spring/summer of 1994,on the heels of the hugely successful 'TMBGITW' single.Around that time,the tracklist consisted of all those great tunes---"Days Of Wild","Interactive","Acknowledge Me","Ripopgodazzippa"---that Prince later removed from the album.If it had been released in 1994,with those tracks included and lots of promotion,this could have been his biggest,most successful album of the 90s.By the time it was finally released in September 1995,many of us had already heard these songs many times before (on bootlegs and live performances).It was old news to the diehards.

ogiogiogi1 said:

JowiiCoco said:

Great songs, but I'm not too crazy about the production.

Totally agree: some of his finest songs are on the album but so over-produced it is unbelievable. Endorphin Machine went from being a raging rock masterpiece to a watered down pop track. Still good but no longer great IMO.

I agree.After listening to most of these songs on various bootlegs throughout 1994 and early 1995,I was shocked when I finally heard the 'official' release.Prince spent alot of time tinkering with these tunes and I think he overproduced a few tracks.It's still a wonderful album though.

dandeeland said:

The 90s to me were the best music of his career. 4 of my favorite top 5 Prince albums are from this era

Top5 (in no order)

Purple Rain

chaos and disorder

gold

diamonds and pearls

symbol album

LOVE this era!!

Love your list my fav era is the 90s

formallypickles said:

I love the 90s Prince.

Co-Sign

rialb said:

savagedreams said:

do some research. its fact. prince gave them both albums. warners wouldnt release both at the same time. warners released come first. p wanted come released as prince & gold exp as . they refused, picked the album with his name instead of one with a crazy symbol with no name. thats a very condensed version but basically thats what it was.

I have read that account in various books but I'm not sure that it's a fact. Can you offer solid proof that things went down exactly as you say? Who are the sources? I tend not to take Prince biographies to be holy scripture.

Prince should have never submitted Come to be released in the first place.It's an album that seems thrown together and it doesn't contain a single song that I would consider a "classic".To me,it just seems like a contract-filling album.We all know that Prince can do better than that.

It's clear that The Gold Experience is the stronger,more inspired album.Releasing Come was actually a waste of time.It bombed and didn't leave much of an impact at all.The worst part of all is,the release of Come meant that we had to wait another whole year for the better album.

TrevorAyer said:

this record was doomed when the opening track was called pussy control .. he lost everyone who love "beautiful girl in the world" right then and there .. it didn't help that he was raping the defendant in "i hate you" or that he sounded whiter than vanilla ice trying to fit in with some of the best rappers at their peak .. prince used to compete on that level where his music was so good it was respected among other greats in their genre .. and it being a hard rock record while rapping i guess he was going for the limp bizkit sound???? i still get a hankering for billy jack and i thought the npg did a great version of vicki waiting .. but this record was built to fail on many levels and i wouldn't be surprised if prince had the same approach as chaos by that time ... he just gave the toilet a gold glitter this time ... the sex symbol record was his last masterpiece .. he flubbed a little with tony m but its still a pretty great record ..

"P Control" is the one track that I don't like.It's just ridiculous.I think Prince should have opened this album with the blistering funk track "Hide The Bone"

savagedreams said:

rialb said:

Those appearances where he played a track from the album and then said it was never going to be released did not do the album any favours. Maybe Prince is happy with the way things turned out but for me that was the point where Prince put a gun to the head of his career and pulled the trigger.

so he should have done nothing to draw anttention to the fact that he had a great album but his record company wouldnt release it? should he have just sat quetly at home waiting for the call from warner bros to say it was ok for him to get to work?

But all Prince did was confuse people playing tracks from an unreleased album at the same time that he had a new album in stores?! Describing one album as a "Prince" album and the other as a "Symbol Guy" album?! LOL,it was a mess.

Things would have turned out quite differently if he had never submitted Come and just released TGE in the summer of '94 and promoted the hell out of it with a huge tour.

rialb said:

savagedreams said:

do some research. its fact. prince gave them both albums. warners wouldnt release both at the same time. warners released come first. p wanted come released as prince & gold exp as . they refused, picked the album with his name instead of one with a crazy symbol with no name. thats a very condensed version but basically thats what it was.

[Edited 7/17/11 20:22pm]

I have read that account in various books but I'm not sure that it's a fact. Can you offer solid proof that things went down exactly as you say? Who are the sources? I tend not to take Prince biographies to be holy scripture.

whatever then. i wasnt in the room. nobody has ever had anything to contradict it. believe what you want.