I had a night in last week and had a few beers and popped in one of my misc P dvds

it was ALL his live TV appearances between 1997-1999

DAMN it is VERY rare for me to critiscize my main man but its like watching another artist

he looks fucking lost..and having trouble dealing with his waning stardom and inspiration

for me the sinbad lets work etc are just .....not happening

the stauros..........ahem....not happening(LARRY FUCKING GRAHAM AND DRY ICE......)

The woeful lipsyncing greatest romance and baby knows over and over and over and over

The rave 2000 gig is just so weird...so unatmospheric...so un prince

(prince why the fuck didnt you put this much promotion into THE TRUTH????!!)

To me he just looks utterly bereft of insparation....my faith in him was waning...*

and then something happened which restored all my faith....

after all that lame plastic bored kirky j live shit came on jay leno in 2001

THE BALLAD OF DOROTHY PARKER LIVE!!!

man i remember just thinking WOW something is happening here and lo and behold thus we enter one of my favourite eras ever

*DISCLAIMER

of course prince being prince there are some exceptions,primarily being live on jay leno"freaks on this side moving so fast..lovin this truth liked miles loved jazz"

and of course..."mmm im kinda feeling like prince tonight"

COME ON and ALPHABET ST/UNDERTAKER

I dunno. It wasn't that bad. Those are roughly the years I started my journey into Princeworld, so I maybe slightly bias. But I do remember hearing the live drums on The Rainbow Children and thinking that it just sounded so fresh!

We did get 'the War'.

That's what's so wacky about it all really - You look at the plastic horrible turds, and then the few good things he did then, and there seems to be this disconnect, they don't fit together. It was definately a transitional period, and musically maybe that splintered personality has continued ever since - with commercial pop/R&B being the template for one half (NPGMC, Musicology, 3121), and the War, 'When Will We Be Paid, TRC, etc as the other half (some of PE, Lotus).

His message was conflicted too at this time - he had that whole Egypt/mystical thing he was touting before 97, and that kinda continues in stuff like One Song - then you have all the JW nonesense and Starous embarrassment. I mean the dude was conflicted and had some hardcore personal stuff going on as well as huge career changes too - so I guess that is reflected in the output - sometimes people want to see the pain in the music - and whilst that does make for great pop music, Prince is a pretty guarded character, so that stuff came out in another fashion, maybe?

I've tried to skirt around things best I could.

He only lost his musical mojo in 1999 imo.

Yes, New Power Soul is well below standards but it still contains some great tunes that stand up to the rest of his career, and most of the live performances 1997/1998 were great.

Rave Un2 The Year 2000 and 1999: The New Master however, have to be the most embarrassing moments of his career.

toejam said:

I dunno. It wasn't that bad. Those are roughly the years I started my journey into Princeworld, so I maybe slightly bias. But I do remember hearing the live drums on The Rainbow Children and thinking that it just sounded so fresh!

wrong year dude

NouveauDance said:

We did get 'the War'.

That's what's so wacky about it all really - You look at the plastic horrible turds, and then the few good things he did then, and there seems to be this disconnect, they don't fit together. It was definately a transitional period, and musically maybe that splintered personality has continued ever since - with commercial pop/R&B being the template for one half (NPGMC, Musicology, 3121), and the War, 'When Will We Be Paid, TRC, etc as the other half (some of PE, Lotus).

His message was conflicted too at this time - he had that whole Egypt/mystical thing he was touting before 97, and that kinda continues in stuff like One Song - then you have all the JW nonesense and Starous embarrassment. I mean the dude was conflicted and had some hardcore personal stuff going on as well as huge career changes too - so I guess that is reflected in the output - sometimes people want to see the pain in the music - and whilst that does make for great pop music, Prince is a pretty guarded character, so that stuff came out in another fashion, maybe?

I've tried to skirt around things best I could.

great points:always enjoy reading your posts and replies and yes how could i ever forget the utterly briiant war

802 said:

He only lost his musical mojo in 1999 imo.

Yes, New Power Soul is well below standards but it still contains some great tunes that stand up to the rest of his career, and most of the live performances 1997/1998 were great.

Rave Un2 The Year 2000 and 1999: The New Master however, have to be the most embarrassing moments of his career.

totally disagree

jonylawson said:

toejam said:

I dunno. It wasn't that bad. Those are roughly the years I started my journey into Princeworld, so I maybe slightly bias. But I do remember hearing the live drums on The Rainbow Children and thinking that it just sounded so fresh!

wrong year dude

No, that's what I'm saying - I didn't think the 'plastic' sound of 1997-2000 was that bad until I heard the freshness of TRC (2001)... Probably should have made that clearer...

toejam said:

jonylawson said:

wrong year dude

No, that's what I'm saying - I didn't think the 'plastic' sound of 1997-2000 was that bad until I heard the freshness of TRC (2001)... Probably should have made that clearer...

I've been sayin' that for years!!!!

Not only the 97-00 years were bad, plastic years with low sales and bad reviews, but the so-called 2001 "comeback" (The Rainbow Children) was neither strong nor enjoyable, just a moderately intriguing "freak" album. Then NEWS appeared and wow, I truly thought it was the END. I stopped being a fan during those years. Of course, 2004 came and suddenly everything was "ok" (sort of) again...

that's the difference between the 89-90 era and the 97-00 era, at least in 91-92 we got D&P and ...

by the way, I include Emancipation in that awful late-90's era, so it's 96-00 for me. And, considering that I don't care for his early-00's music, you can say that I despise the entire 96-03 era.

That's the equivalent of disliking all the albums from Parade to The Hits/B-Sides ... , wow...

96-03: Prince's loooong nadir...

and yes, the late-90's tv appearances show that Prince was NOT a happy/relaxed/focused man during those years: some nasty personal, spiritual and "$" problems...

[Edited 7/12/11 3:35am]

it went down for me in 2004. I enjoyed the Rave and Rainbow era. Once Musicology era hit its been a fast decline with only one exception...Lotusflower(single disc).

JoeTyler said:

I've been sayin' that for years!!!!

Not only the 97-00 years were bad, plastic years with low sales and bad reviews, but the so-called 2001 "comeback" (The Rainbow Children) was neither strong nor enjoyable, just a moderately intriguing "freak" album. Then NEWS appeared and wow, I truly thought it was the END. I stopped being a fan during those years. Of course, 2004 came and suddenly everything was "ok" (sort of) again...[/quote]

We are often not on the same page but I pretty much agree with all of the above. When you factor in the overwhelmingly mediocre NPGMC tracks this era looks especially bleak. I do enjoy The Truth and Xpectation but otherwise this era is very weak. The Rainbow Children did have a fresh sound but for me the songs are just too inconsistent. I'm not especially bothered by any of the relgious mumbo jumbo, it's easy enough to ignore lyrics, but much of the music has a lite jazz/new agey sound to it that I very much do not appreciate.

I think you mean 89-92? For me Diamonds and Pearls is easily as disappointing as the 97-00 era. Horrible album.

And we are back to disagreeing with each other. I love Emancipation, it is easily in my top five.

rialb said:

I think you mean 89-92? For me Diamonds and Pearls is easily as disappointing as the 97-00 era. Horrible album.

by the way, I include Emancipation in that awful late-90's era, so it's 96-00 for me. And, considering that I don't care for his early-00's music, you can say that I despise the entire 96-03 era.

And we are back to disagreeing with each other. I love Emancipation, it is easily in my top five.

wow, wow D&P is in my top10 of all time (Number 10, actually) and number 7 or even 6...

and Emancipation is a mess I know there's a strong 12 songs album buried under all the crap (We Gets Up, Cd2 ballads, Cd3 "jams"?, but I can't be bothered perhaps I'll make/edit my own version someday. In fact I think that Rave is a better album than Emancipation, lol

He lost it with 1999: The New Master. What the fuck was that shit?

JoeTyler said:

rialb said:

by the way, I include Emancipation in that awful late-90's era, so it's 96-00 for me. And, considering that I don't care for his early-00's music, you can say that I despise the entire 96-03 era.

And we are back to disagreeing with each other. I love Emancipation, it is easily in my top five.

wow, wow D&P is in my top10 of all time (Number 10, actually) and number 7 or even 6...

and Emancipation is a mess I know there's a strong 12 songs album buried under all the crap (We Gets Up, Cd2 ballads, Cd3 "jams"?, but I can't be bothered perhaps I'll make/edit my own version someday. In fact I think that Rave is a better album than Emancipation, lol

Oh, I quite like but I don't really consider it to be very similar to Diamonds and Pearls. Both albums are fairly long but with I don't even notice how long it is because for the most part the songs are great. I often find it a bit of a slog to get through Diamonds and Pearls. is a fairly messy album but it holds my interest in a way that Diamonds and Pearls utterly fails to do so. Diamonds and Pearls just bores me.

When was the last time you listened to Emancipation and Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic? Give 'em a listen back to back and then tell me which one is the superior album.

Yeah. How weird that losing a child and having a marriage break up would cause a person to lose focus like that.

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

Oh, I quite like but I don't really consider it to be very similar to Diamonds and Pearls. Both albums are fairly long but with I don't even notice how long it is because for the most part the songs are great. I often find it a bit of a slog to get through Diamonds and Pearls. is a fairly messy album but it holds my interest in a way that Diamonds and Pearls utterly fails to do so. Diamonds and Pearls just bores me.

When was the last time you listened to Emancipation and Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic? Give 'em a listen back to back and then tell me which one is the superior album.

recently man, recently

Emancipation cd1:I still hate Courtin' Time, We Gets Up, Mr.Happy, White Mansion, Right Back Here In My Arms, etc. That's NOT the sound (mid-90's R&B/Pseudo-Hip/Hop) I wanna hear from Prince...it reminds me of MJ's HIStory Cd2, just a bunch of mid-90's Neo-New Jack Swing jams and early shit-hop...That said, I LOVE Jam of the Year, Get Yo Groove On, Somebody's Somebody and In This Bed I Scream...

cd2: wow, I usually love Prince 80's and early-90's ballads, but these ballads are dull and forgettable to my ears...Curious Child is the (painful) highlight...and since the breakup, this Cd2 is dated as hell, lol...

cd3: no, no and no the jams are pathetic (New World ) and the cover of One of Us... wow, lol the title-track is cool and I tolerate Face Down, but the rest, meh...

I think Prince had a clear idea (triple album, cd1 FM hits, cd2 personal project "Mayte", cd3 jams for the 90's generation) but, sadly, the production was awful and bland, and the songs were just NOT strong enough...

Rave: irrelevant and pedestrian. Prince going mainstream and failing miserably, but I recenlty made my own version and I got a tight late-90's Prince sellout album, lol

1.Rave Unto the Joy Fantastic

2.Undisputed

3.So Far So Pleased

4.Greatest Romance

5.The Sun, The Moon And Stars

6.Baby Knows

7.Strange But True

8.ManOwaR

9.Prettyman

10.Wherever U Go

so, both albums are extremely flawed and uneven (just pop and R&B), but with some editing they are completely listenable...nothing great, but still the only worthy thing off the 96-00 era. At least better than Truth, Kamasutra, NPS or The Vault Those are beyond redemption...

oh, and I'm glad you dig . That album is def one his last highlights...

[Edited 7/12/11 11:02am]

Genesia said:

Yeah. How weird that losing a child and having a marriage break up would cause a person to lose focus like that.

Well, there's the theory that artists in great emotional pain create their best work so I'm not sure that I agree with you. Prince often seems to deliver better music when he is pissed off.

JoeTyler said:

rialb said:

Oh, I quite like but I don't really consider it to be very similar to Diamonds and Pearls. Both albums are fairly long but with I don't even notice how long it is because for the most part the songs are great. I often find it a bit of a slog to get through Diamonds and Pearls. is a fairly messy album but it holds my interest in a way that Diamonds and Pearls utterly fails to do so. Diamonds and Pearls just bores me.

When was the last time you listened to Emancipation and Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic? Give 'em a listen back to back and then tell me which one is the superior album.

recently man, recently

Emancipation cd1:I still hate Courtin' Time, We Gets Up, Mr.Happy, White Mansion, Right Back Here In My Arms, etc. That's NOT the sound (mid-90's R&B/Pseudo-Hip/Hop) I wanna hear from Prince...it reminds me of MJ's HIStory Cd2, just a bunch of mid-90's Neo-New Jack Swing jams and early shit-hop...That said, I LOVE Jam of the Year, Get Yo Groove On, Somebody's Somebody and In This Bed I Scream...

cd2: wow, I usually love Prince 80's and early-90's ballads, but these ballads are dull and forgettable to my ears...Curious Child is the (painful) highlight...and since the breakup, this Cd2 is dated as hell, lol...

cd3: no, no and no the jams are pathetic (New World ) and the cover of One of Us... wow, lol the title-track is cool and I tolerate Face Down, but the rest, meh...

I think Prince had a clear idea (triple album, cd1 FM hits, cd2 personal project "Mayte", cd3 jams for the 90's generation) but, sadly, the production was awful and bland, and the songs were just NOT strong enough...

Rave: irrelevant and pedestrian. Prince going mainstream and failing miserably, but I recenlty made my own version and I got a tight late-90's Prince sellout album, lol

1.Rave Unto the Joy Fantastic

2.Undisputed

3.So Far So Pleased

4.Greatest Romance

5.The Sun, The Moon And Stars

6.Baby Knows

7.Strange But True

8.ManOwaR

9.Prettyman

10.Wherever U Go

so, both albums are extremely flawed and uneven (just pop and R&B), but with some editing they are completely listenable...nothing great, but still the only worthy thing off the 96-00 era. At least better than Truth, Kamasutra, NPS or The Vault Those are beyond redemption...

oh, and I'm glad you dig . That album is def one his last highlights...

[Edited 7/12/11 11:02am]

I suggest that you keep listening to Emancipation until you come around to my way of thinking.

No love for The Vault: Old Friends 4 Sale? "It's About That Walk" is a great track and "Extraordinary" is a nice tune.

Sometimes I wonder if there is a heart beating in that chest of yours or just a piece of coal.

[Edited 7/12/11 11:08am]

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

recently man, recently

Emancipation cd1:I still hate Courtin' Time, We Gets Up, Mr.Happy, White Mansion, Right Back Here In My Arms, etc. That's NOT the sound (mid-90's R&B/Pseudo-Hip/Hop) I wanna hear from Prince...it reminds me of MJ's HIStory Cd2, just a bunch of mid-90's Neo-New Jack Swing jams and early shit-hop...That said, I LOVE Jam of the Year, Get Yo Groove On, Somebody's Somebody and In This Bed I Scream...

cd2: wow, I usually love Prince 80's and early-90's ballads, but these ballads are dull and forgettable to my ears...Curious Child is the (painful) highlight...and since the breakup, this Cd2 is dated as hell, lol...

cd3: no, no and no the jams are pathetic (New World ) and the cover of One of Us... wow, lol the title-track is cool and I tolerate Face Down, but the rest, meh...

I think Prince had a clear idea (triple album, cd1 FM hits, cd2 personal project "Mayte", cd3 jams for the 90's generation) but, sadly, the production was awful and bland, and the songs were just NOT strong enough...

Rave: irrelevant and pedestrian. Prince going mainstream and failing miserably, but I recenlty made my own version and I got a tight late-90's Prince sellout album, lol

1.Rave Unto the Joy Fantastic

2.Undisputed

3.So Far So Pleased

4.Greatest Romance

5.The Sun, The Moon And Stars

6.Baby Knows

7.Strange But True

8.ManOwaR

9.Prettyman

10.Wherever U Go

so, both albums are extremely flawed and uneven (just pop and R&B), but with some editing they are completely listenable...nothing great, but still the only worthy thing off the 96-00 era. At least better than Truth, Kamasutra, NPS or The Vault Those are beyond redemption...

oh, and I'm glad you dig . That album is def one his last highlights...

[Edited 7/12/11 11:02am]

I suggest that you keep listening to Emancipation until you come around to my way of thinking.

No love for The Vault: Old Friends 4 Sale? "It's About That Walk" is a great track and "Extraordinary" is a nice tune.

Sometimes I wonder if there is a heart beating in that chest of yours or just a piece of coal.

you know, during those years, for me, Prince lost the "it" factor. Nothing on The Vault is bad, but nothing is great either.

For me, his last great song with the "it" factor is either TMBGITW or Gold...

I wish I could make my own version of Emancipation, but I don't know...cd3 is not good and cd2 is so dated now...even painful...

rialb said:

Genesia said:

Yeah. How weird that losing a child and having a marriage break up would cause a person to lose focus like that.

Well, there's the theory that artists in great emotional pain create their best work so I'm not sure that I agree with you. Prince often seems to deliver better music when he is pissed off.

Yeah, breaking up with your girlfriend or being pissed off at your label is definitely on the same emotional plane as having a child die.

Genesia said:

rialb said:

Well, there's the theory that artists in great emotional pain create their best work so I'm not sure that I agree with you. Prince often seems to deliver better music when he is pissed off.

Yeah, breaking up with your girlfriend or being pissed off at your label is definitely on the same emotional plane as having a child die.

Vroom! Vroom, vroom, vroom!

JoeTyler said:

rialb said:

I suggest that you keep listening to Emancipation until you come around to my way of thinking.

No love for The Vault: Old Friends 4 Sale? "It's About That Walk" is a great track and "Extraordinary" is a nice tune.

Sometimes I wonder if there is a heart beating in that chest of yours or just a piece of coal.

you know, during those years, for me, Prince lost the "it" factor. Nothing on The Vault is bad, but nothing is great either.

For me, his last great song with the "it" factor is either TMBGITW or Gold...

I wish I could make my own version of Emancipation, but I don't know...cd3 is not good and cd2 is so dated now...even painful...

Do you dig any of the ballads on disc two? "Sex in the Summer?" "Saviour?" Plus there is "Joint 2 Joint." It's certainly an interesting song.

Disc three? There's got to be a couple of songs you like after the first four.

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

you know, during those years, for me, Prince lost the "it" factor. Nothing on The Vault is bad, but nothing is great either.

For me, his last great song with the "it" factor is either TMBGITW or Gold...

I wish I could make my own version of Emancipation, but I don't know...cd3 is not good and cd2 is so dated now...even painful...

Do you dig any of the ballads on disc two? "Sex in the Summer?" "Saviour?" Plus there is "Joint 2 Joint." It's certainly an interesting song.

Disc three? There's got to be a couple of songs you like after the first four.

disc two: Sex in the Summer is cool (upbeat ) and Curious Child is nice. The Holy River is too corny, and Let's Have a Baby...too painful...

disc 3: I only dig the title-track and Face Down, promise

it's ok, I know it was your first Prince album , mine was The Very Best of Prince (yes, I'm young, lol)

JoeTyler said:

rialb said:

Do you dig any of the ballads on disc two? "Sex in the Summer?" "Saviour?" Plus there is "Joint 2 Joint." It's certainly an interesting song.

Disc three? There's got to be a couple of songs you like after the first four.

disc two: Sex in the Summer is cool (upbeat ) and Curious Child is nice. The Holy River is too corny, and Let's Have a Baby...too painful...

disc 3: I only dig the title-track and Face Down, promise

it's ok, I know it was your first Prince album , mine was The Very Best of Prince (yes, I'm young, lol)

Actually Chaos and Disorder was my first Prince album (in tandom with The Hits 1 and The Hits 2).

Unless you reconsider your position on "The Love We Make" I don't think we can be "freinds" anymore.

What would u lose if your child died?

Genesia said:

Yeah. How weird that losing a child and having a marriage break up would cause a person to lose focus like that.

right

The 1997-2000 period (I'd include 1996, though) was weak, but now it seems to me like a masterpiece compared to what he did since 2004 onwards.

I could never imagine Prince could fall so low, Planet Earth and 20Ten taking the cake.

I'd wish his recent bullshit about not releasing more albums were true until he was ready to deliver another masterpiece like TRC. Which I very much doubt it will happen...

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

disc two: Sex in the Summer is cool (upbeat ) and Curious Child is nice. The Holy River is too corny, and Let's Have a Baby...too painful...

disc 3: I only dig the title-track and Face Down, promise

it's ok, I know it was your first Prince album , mine was The Very Best of Prince (yes, I'm young, lol)

Unless you reconsider your position on "The Love We Make" I don't think we can be "freinds" anymore.

Ok, ok, it's my fav track off the cd3 after Face Down and Emancipation

vitriol said:

The 1997-2000 period (I'd include 1996, though) was weak, but now it seems to me like a masterpiece compared to what he did since 2004 onwards.

I could never imagine Prince could fall so low, Planet Earth and 20Ten taking the cake.

I'd wish his recent bullshit about not releasing more albums were true until he was ready to deliver another masterpiece like TRC. Which I very much doubt it will happen...

I still can't see why do you hate LotusFlow3r so intensely...a TRC fan should be happy with an album like Lotus...