I guess that Sugar Hill's Sylvia Robinson mixed some disco in there, hence having the Sugar Hill Houseband re-recording the "Good Times" classic by Chic for "Rapper's Delight."

And Sugar Hill Gang's official video for "Rapper's Delight" took place in a disco as well and their first album cover shows them performing in a discotheque. It was the atmosphere of that time and common to release party rap, but eventually the conscious rhymes of the rough life on the streets got introduced with Flashes "The Message." Disco fast forwarded indeed more towards the house scene and dj's from NY discos and clubs such as Larry Levan from the Paradise Garage, and Frankie Knuckles have inspired new generations

Shango said:

I guess that Sugar Hill's Sylvia Robinson mixed some disco in there, hence having the Sugar Hill Houseband re-recording the "Good Times" classic by Chic for "Rapper's Delight."

And Sugar Hill Gang's official video for "Rapper's Delight" took place in a disco as well and their first album cover shows them performing in a discotheque. It was the atmosphere of that time and common to release party rap, but eventually the conscious rhymes of the rough life on the streets got introduced with Flashes "The Message."

There were a few songs before this, but since Flash & The Furious Five were one of the few rap groups of the time who recieved much radio play, The Message was more widely heard.

Militant said:

The creation of hip-hop came about as the ANTITHESIS of Disco.

DJ Flowers, Pete DJ Jones, DJ Hollywood, Disco King Mario, and a countless list more would disagree.

Kool Herc played clubs like the Hevalo and the Twilight Zone.

The division was age, and things like the gang culture, not simply sneakers.

And finally, Disco clubs in the early days were playing many of the same records as the early Hip Hop deejays. They played the same music.

Shango said:

I guess that Sugar Hill's Sylvia Robinson mixed some disco in there, hence having the Sugar Hill Houseband re-recording the "Good Times" classic by Chic for "Rapper's Delight."

Deejays were cutting up Chic's "Good Times" before Sugar Hill Gang. They just copied what they saw already happening in the clubs.

By the way, the early hip hop dj's played very similar set lists to the early Paradise Garage playlists. The song Soul Makkossa is one example.

I hate rap music, it's not even themselves playing, writing those songs or anything..

always sampling, to me it is like stealing, ruin the original song too...

the Fresh Prince aka Will Smith is the finest example on this, he has ruined that S. Wonder song, the tittle escapes me, is it Wish?, He's The Greatest Dancer by Sister Sledge, Rock The Cashbah by The Clash,

aaargh how I hate that guy and rap in general...

Rappers are like PARASITES.... and it's not even music, has nothing to do with art, mostly it's all about style, fast women, expennsive jewelery.

I can't say I like rap.... I hate it....

Prince should keep his focus on pop - soul - rock - funk - and keep a long distance away from RAP.

Militant said:

The creation of hip-hop came about as the ANTITHESIS of Disco.

The guys in the streets, and in the hoods, couldn't get in to the Disco clubs, those clubs were too "bourgeois" and most had dress codes that didn't allow you to wear sneakers.

So the guys like Kool Herc and Flash were like "Fuck it, we'll have our OWN jams!". They hooked up equipment in the streets using electricity bypassed from streetlights, etc. These were the first Block Parties. DJ's like Herc would spin and loop the drum breaks from classic funk jams, like "Funky Drummer" - some guys would grab a mic and rap on them and others would breakdance.

"created rap music cos i never dug disco" - chuck d. i rest my case m'lud.

thedance said:

I hate rap music, it's not even themselves playing, writing those songs or anything..

always sampling, to me it is like stealing, ruin the original song too...

the Fresh Prince aka Will Smith is the finest example on this, he has ruined that S. Wonder song, the tittle escapes me, is it Wish?, He's The Greatest Dancer by Sister Sledge, Rock The Cashbah by The Clash,

aaargh how I hate that guy and rap in general...

Rappers are like PARASITES.... and it's not even music, has nothing to do with art, mostly it's all about style, fast women, expennsive jewelery.

I can't say I like rap.... I hate it....

Prince should keep his focus on pop - soul - rock - funk - and keep a long distance away from RAP.

this is pretty ignorant, theres lots of amazing rap made by talented people. also sampling can be pretty awesome when used by people other than will smith. i dont know why youd bring up will smith when even rap enthusiasts dont like will smith

uuhson said:

thedance said:

I hate rap music, it's not even themselves playing, writing those songs or anything..

always sampling, to me it is like stealing, ruin the original song too...

the Fresh Prince aka Will Smith is the finest example on this, he has ruined that S. Wonder song, the tittle escapes me, is it Wish?, He's The Greatest Dancer by Sister Sledge, Rock The Cashbah by The Clash,

aaargh how I hate that guy and rap in general...

Rappers are like PARASITES.... and it's not even music, has nothing to do with art, mostly it's all about style, fast women, expennsive jewelery.

I can't say I like rap.... I hate it....

Prince should keep his focus on pop - soul - rock - funk - and keep a long distance away from RAP.

this is pretty ignorant, theres lots of amazing rap made by talented people. also sampling can be pretty awesome when used by people other than will smith. i dont know why youd bring up will smith when even rap enthusiasts dont like will smith

totally agree with you. a good dj working decks, scratching, mixing, cross-fading etc is a MUSICIAN, as much as a drummer is. simple fact is prince never had a fucking clue about hiphop or it's culture.

^ a DJ is a MUSICIAN.........?!

are you joking.... wow.............

that is news to me, maybe I'm an ignorant after all....

I know I am pretty "conservative" when it comes to music:

I love genres like:

disco (70s)

rock

pop

funk

some soul

but I absolutely dislikes the genres:

jazz

rap/ hiphop

isn't it wonderful we all are different, different tastes...?

thedance said:

^ a DJ is a MUSICIAN.........?!

are you joking.... wow.............

that is news to me, maybe I'm an ignorant after all....

I know I am pretty "conservative" when it comes to music:

I love genres like:

disco (70s)

rock

pop

funk

some soul

but I absolutely dislikes the genres:

jazz

rap/ hiphop

isn't it wonderful we all are different, different tastes...?

a GOOD dj is most definitely a musician. i'm a drummer myself and appreciate the similarities. watch somebody like mixmaster mike who djs for the beastie boys. growing up listening to prince taught me to never absolutely dislike any genre, music to me is not mere entertainment, it's about challenging my tastes.

robertgeorgeakabob said:

thedance said:

^ a DJ is a MUSICIAN.........?!

are you joking.... wow.............

that is news to me, maybe I'm an ignorant after all....

I know I am pretty "conservative" when it comes to music:

I love genres like:

disco (70s)

rock

pop

funk

some soul

but I absolutely dislikes the genres:

jazz

rap/ hiphop

isn't it wonderful we all are different, different tastes...?

a GOOD dj is most definitely a musician. i'm a drummer myself and appreciate the similarities. watch somebody like mixmaster mike who djs for the beastie boys. growing up listening to prince taught me to never absolutely dislike any genre, music to me is not mere entertainment, it's about challenging my tastes.

im the exact same way, the beastie boys and prince are probably my top 2 weirdly enough

uuhson said:

robertgeorgeakabob said:

a GOOD dj is most definitely a musician. i'm a drummer myself and appreciate the similarities. watch somebody like mixmaster mike who djs for the beastie boys. growing up listening to prince taught me to never absolutely dislike any genre, music to me is not mere entertainment, it's about challenging my tastes.

im the exact same way, the beastie boys and prince are probably my top 2 weirdly enough

impeccable taste young man! you've put me in the mood for a listen to paul's boutique

robertgeorgeakabob said:

uuhson said:

im the exact same way, the beastie boys and prince are probably my top 2 weirdly enough

impeccable taste young man! you've put me in the mood for a listen to paul's boutique

hah, i was actually going to bring up pauls boutique in response to sampling

Prince has been exploring the methods of talk/rap as far back at 81. Just listen to Annie Christian. But as a genre, Prince clearly didn't like it until he felt he needed to start chasing the market in 91.

Globally, rap has struggled for legitimacy for years, and still does. In Prince's world where real music by real musics count, nothing could be more the enemy than rap, where 90% of sales are creditted to artists with no skill on an instrument, that more often than no steal their hook from old songs or samples.

I think he is right. Rap has it place, but the majority of popular rap is not an art, simply a means to create a hit by "modernising" songs that have gone before it.

The first rap album I ever owned (2 live crew) and the last (Sage Francis) are both great, but neither are on a level with great musicians that write all their own material, play it and produce it.

SquirrelMeat said:

the majority of popular rap is not an art, simply a means to create a hit by "modernising" songs that have gone before it.

sadly this is true for the most part, especially so these days

[Edited 7/8/11 7:43am]

[Edited 7/8/11 7:43am]

SquirrelMeat said:

Prince has been exploring the methods of talk/rap as far back at 81. Just listen to Annie Christian. But as a genre, Prince clearly didn't like it until he felt he needed to start chasing the market in 91.

Globally, rap has struggled for legitimacy for years, and still does. In Prince's world where real music by real musics count, nothing could be more the enemy than rap, where 90% of sales are creditted to artists with no skill on an instrument, that more often than no steal their hook from old songs or samples.

I think he is right. Rap has it place, but the majority of popular rap is not an art, simply a means to create a hit by "modernising" songs that have gone before it.

The first rap album I ever owned (2 live crew) and the last (Sage Francis) are both great, but neither are on a level with great musicians that write all their own material, play it and produce it.

In a sense you (and Prince) are right. Mainstream rap definitely is not as much an art form as rap by itself is when you just have turntables and a microphone and you actually have a FLOW. But when it comes just about the beats and just talking just to be talking then that's when the bad side of it is shown. But I've heard enough of rap that's actually good/great that I can't just totally dismiss it.

thedance said:

I hate rap music, it's not even themselves playing, writing those songs or anything..

Frank Sinatra doesn't play instruments or write anything either. What's that got to do with anything? Jam Master Jay, Stetsasonic, Beastie Boys, DJ Quik, and others all play instruments. Most rappers write their own rhymes.

always sampling, to me it is like stealing

Technically you could say acts like Led Zeppelin & Eric Clapton were sampling old blues songs. Prince has used sampling too. All hip hop doesn't involve sampling. George Harrison's My Sweet Lord copied He's So Fine, and he was sued about it.

the Fresh Prince aka Will Smith is the finest example on this, he has ruined that S. Wonder song, the tittle escapes me, is it Wish?, He's The Greatest Dancer by Sister Sledge, Rock The Cashbah by The Clash,

The acts approved the samples, so they had no problem with it. Stevie Wonder even appeared in Will's Wild Wild West video.

and it's not even music, has nothing to do with art, mostly it's all about style, fast women, expensive jewelery.

So was Motley Crue, The Eagles, KISS and many other rock, country, R&B, funk, and blues acts who slept with groupies, bought sports cars, big mansions, etc. Many made songs about it too. What was Morris Day singing about all this time?

MickyDolenz said:

thedance said:

I hate rap music, it's not even themselves playing, writing those songs or anything..

Frank Sinatra doesn't play instruments or write anything either. What's that got to do with anything? Jam Master Jay, Stetsasonic, Beastie Boys, DJ Quik, and others all play instruments. Most rappers write their own rhymes.

always sampling, to me it is like stealing

Technically you could say acts like Led Zeppelin & Eric Clapton were sampling old blues songs. Prince has used sampling too. All hip hop doesn't involve sampling. George Harrison's My Sweet Lord copied He's So Fine, and he was sued about it.

the Fresh Prince aka Will Smith is the finest example on this, he has ruined that S. Wonder song, the tittle escapes me, is it Wish?, He's The Greatest Dancer by Sister Sledge, Rock The Cashbah by The Clash,

The acts approved the samples, so they had no problem with it. Stevie Wonder even appeared in Will's Wild Wild West video.

and it's not even music, has nothing to do with art, mostly it's all about style, fast women, expensive jewelery.

So was Motley Crue, The Eagles, KISS and many other rock, country, R&B, funk, and blues acts who slept with groupies, bought sports cars, big mansions, etc. Many made songs about it too. What was Morris Day singing about all this time?

SLIGHT correction: Stevie was onstage at the MTV Movie Awards performing the song with Will Smith but yeah he didn't have no problems with anybody sampling him.

Timmy84 said:

MickyDolenz said:

SLIGHT correction: Stevie was onstage at the MTV Movie Awards performing the song with Will Smith but yeah he didn't have no problems with anybody sampling him.

Stevie is in the actual music video too. Go to around 2:14

MickyDolenz said:

Timmy84 said:

SLIGHT correction: Stevie was onstage at the MTV Movie Awards performing the song with Will Smith but yeah he didn't have no problems with anybody sampling him.

Stevie is in the actual music video too. Go to around 2:14

Of course, thanks lol

Timmy84 said:

Of course, thanks lol

MickyDolenz said:

Timmy84 said:

SLIGHT correction: Stevie was onstage at the MTV Movie Awards performing the song with Will Smith but yeah he didn't have no problems with anybody sampling him.

Stevie is in the actual music video too. Go to around 2:14

Hey, I forgot my boy "Carlton" was in this too (among others)! lol

Ol' Willie was bitin' the HELL outta MJ with this "long-form" video.

alexnvrmnd777 said:

MickyDolenz said:

Stevie is in the actual music video too. Go to around 2:14

Hey, I forgot my boy "Carlton" was in this too (among others)! lol

Ol' Willie was bitin' the HELL outta MJ with this "long-form" video.

Carlton sure was.

And yeah Will thought he was the rap MJ when it came to long form videos but he failed to me.

alexnvrmnd777 said:

Ol' Willie was bitin' the HELL outta MJ with this "long-form" video.

You mean black suit to white suit and throwing his hat in the air (er, quarter into jukebox) while a couple of guys reach for guns in jacket.

mydrawers said:

I remember in 1984 / 1985 listening to OLD SCHOOL rap just as it was starting to break big: Run DMC, Egyptian Lover, Twilight 22, UTFO, The Roxanne shit..........

this was clearly the future of soul music. I remember wondering back then why Prince didn't do some RAP songs, seriously!

Prince fought rap for a long time, scoffed at it, etc........... when rap finally started appearing on his albums, it wasn't himself, it was TONY M........

Did Prince feel like he couldn't rap?

MickyDolenz said:

Shango said:

I guess that Sugar Hill's Sylvia Robinson mixed some disco in there, hence having the Sugar Hill Houseband re-recording the "Good Times" classic by Chic for "Rapper's Delight."

And Sugar Hill Gang's official video for "Rapper's Delight" took place in a disco as well and their first album cover shows them performing in a discotheque. It was the atmosphere of that time and common to release party rap, but eventually the conscious rhymes of the rough life on the streets got introduced with Flashes "The Message."

There were a few songs before this, but since Flash & The Furious Five were one of the few rap groups of the time who recieved much radio play, The Message was more widely heard.

treehouse said:

Shango said:

I guess that Sugar Hill's Sylvia Robinson mixed some disco in there, hence having the Sugar Hill Houseband re-recording the "Good Times" classic by Chic for "Rapper's Delight."

Deejays were cutting up Chic's "Good Times" before Sugar Hill Gang. They just copied what they saw already happening in the clubs.

By the way, the early hip hop dj's played very similar set lists to the early Paradise Garage playlists. The song Soul Makkossa is one example.

good info ! thanx both for dropping your knowledge