Prince mentioned in the Gurdian interview about not recording new albums and how it's the wild west. Well we all know there are a lot of Prince bootlegged songs out there that are unreleased. Rather than Prince watch bootleggers continue to profit off these recordings wouldn't it be wise for him to release the music so it will stop bootleggers from making a profit?

I would go buy a well done packaging release of some bootlegged albumns. Hell it would be cool if Prince even used the bootleggers title!

Yes you would buy a few and I would buy a few. Hardly no one else would care.

He would sell like 800 copies of each album and it wouldn't be worth his time and trouble.

He can make more from one concert than he could by releasing all the bootlegged material himself and selling it.

There is something to be said for the Grateful Dead approach to bootlegging.

FunkiestOne said:

Yes you would buy a few and I would buy a few. Hardly no one else would care.

He would sell like 800 copies of each album and it wouldn't be worth his time and trouble.

He can make more from one concert than he could by releasing all the bootlegged material himself and selling it.

I think the number would be a good bit higher (10-20,000), but not nearly as high as people would think. There are people who would buy everything, but some stuff would sell a lot better.

Pearl Jam have been releasing every single show for a good decade, I'm curious as to what their sales are.

muskiediver said:

Rather than Prince watch bootleggers continue to profit off these recordings wouldn't it be wise for him to release the music so it will stop bootleggers from making a profit?

Not all bootleg people make a profit, not all bootleg people make a single penny. The best ones offer people the best quality recordings imaginable, then give it to the people for free.

Music, not profit.

IstenSzek said:

That ship has long since sailed. It could have worked out pretty sweet for him if he'd approached the internet with a bit more empathy for his fans. A good site from the start, that delivered the goods, was his best shot. But he blew it. Not once, not twice but at least 3 times. And each time he would turn around and blame his fans who supported those clubs in the first place. Last slap in the face was lotusflower which was the worst of all his web ventures, by far. No one is gonna be interested in anither online presence for prince's music, since experience tells us it will not deliver. But i disgress, as usual. If he had had once decent site from the start and had just steadily released vault material and shows on there, he'd have gained more and more customers over the years, instead of pissing people off so badly that they won't even pay for his albums anymore just out of spite. He's had some interesting runs this kast decade and lots of high profile, positive publicity. And yet, there was never a decent site for old and new fans alike to check him out and buy his stuff or discover new shows and outtakes. I'm sure he could have made quite a lot of money off releases like that. If anything, it would have been a transparant house for ALL his material to be available, instead of it being bits and pieces, in or out of print or simply one off shit that no casual fan would even know existed, let alone be able to buy if they wanted to. And yet, prince then turns around and stomps his foot, no doubt, when he finds out that people share, say ONA piano, online or that people make huge profits by selling it on ebay for $ 100. Yet, what are people supposed to do? He isn't offering it to us anymore. How else are you supposed to get it? Latest example: 20Ten. I'm surprised he hasn't stomped offstage yet in amercia when he sees people singing along to future soul song. I wouldn't put it passed him to be miffed that people knew those songs when he didn't release the album in the usa. He'd be like "how do you know this song? Did you download it illegally? Get out of my show, bootlegger" It's the wild west mainly because of the way he treated all of his releases and his fans. Other people still release cd's or download albums steadily and make a bit of money. So why wouldn't he be able to do it? Oh yeah, because he needs a multi million advance on everything he releases and continues to alienate more and more people with his antics and actions, then turns around and blames those who remain (for the time being). Ugh. I have to stop now. Prince is just getting on my tits as of late.

Word for word agreed. And you are not even exaggerating.

I doubt bootleggers (of pressed discs) actually make much profit - it's a pretty small market after all, and it doesn't actually impact on Prince's bottomline, since those people buying bootlegs (still!.. which is another matter entirely, since they're all available on the net for free), but those people buying bootlegs are the hardest of the hardcore who already have everything official. So he's not losing money - he is leaving it on the table though.

A good 90% of the unreleased songs in wide circulation have been so for 20+ years, which means they've been out there since before widespread filesharing - so really the 'damage' was already done well before the 'wild west' days, as Prince describes it.

Download subscriptions or clubs are nice and all - but Prince is a charlatan and crook basically where these are concerned, again, it's also a very small market. I'd still rather see physical releases because Prince is always out to lock things up one way or another (lossy formats or DRM etc).

Would cost next to nothing to do as Zappa did with his Beat The Boots sets. Simply take the bootlegs, cover art and all and release them legitimately. Shit, Zappa didn't even make an attempt to clean 'em up. Emerson Lake & Palmer and Gentle Giant have done this as well. Profit margin isn't huge, but better than $0. Anyone who thinks 10-20 thousand copies would sell needs help but still, a few thousand copies sold with barely any overhead, it's all profit. Be nice to have something released from Prince where you don't skip most of the tracks to get to the good stuff.

NouveauDance said:

(still!.. which is another matter entirely, since they're all available on the net for free)

Like I've said in other threads, not everyone has a computer, and still buy their music in a store.

Maybe a few thousand for some of the less than stellar shows, but the man is sitting on a purple goldmine. Some of the shit.. if he released good quality, well packaged box sets he could break a hundred thousand, easy. Can you imgine a two disc release of the best from the vault 80-87? He tried it with Crystal Ball, but that was a complete clusterfuck, and not nearly as good as it could've been.

Of course, with the man's track record the likeliehood the chance of him giving control of a project like this to the people who could get it done is pretty much nil.

For some reason, I have faith, though. Even if we have to wait another twenty years, all the good stuff will see the light of day.

Other than improved sound quality what do any of us still need at this point. I got my first Prince bootlegs in 1987. If it's out there we all have it. If we don't have it it's probably not circulating and in except for the occasional rare find(For Lust) we'll probably never hear them. I can't too hyped over songs I've had in my collection for 20 plus years already, pristine sound doesn't make it a new track.

I look at every new Prince album in the same way as a new boot studio compilation... a collection of varied unheard songs with a few gems in there.

If 20ten were a bootleg I would feel the same way about the songs, some gems, some blah.

We have no idea how old some of those songs are, (I mean "Act of God" has got to be older then last year).

The only artists I know who sell bootlegged stuff are Radiohead and Todd Rundgren. Prince just likes to complain but he knows he can't really DO anything about it lol

fever said: Can you imgine a two disc release of the best from the vault 80-87? He tried it with Crystal Ball, but that was a complete clusterfuck, and not nearly as good as it could've been.

What songs are you talking about? In the 30 years since then he has put out hundreds of songs. It seems to be a popular myth running through the ORG that he is just keeping the best songs locked away somewhere out of spite. What would be the purpose of that? I am certain he has a lot of recorded material ready to go. But if he felt he had some groundbreaking sure fire hit, it would have been released by now, as he has needed one for a long time. I am guessing that when that door swings open, a lot of folks are going to discover just that.

I think his comment about the "Wild West" was referring to released material not bootlegs. I believe he means that people are not buying 1999 and Musicology anymore because they can just fileshare it or Youtube it, and that they would not buy anything new he releases either.

Although...the only album of his that I have but did not buy is 20Ten, and that is because he did not release it! But I am old, and I enjoy buying records still, and I support the concept of paying for what you get.

I think bootlegs are a different story. They are a smaller market. Same with movies. Have you ever bought an illegal DVD of a movie that was not released?

[Edited 7/2/11 11:40am]

Prince should try the Trent Reznor approach.

Trent created a custom "ultra deluxe" edition (I believe it was for the 'Ghosts' release) including the CD's, a DVD with multitracks, a Blu-Ray with super high quality audio (24 bit), a photo book, and an artwork book, numbered and limited to 2500 copies, each signed by Trent.

The pre-order came with an immediate digital download.

The best thing was, the product didn't even exist when people ordered them. They cost $300 each and didn't ship for something like two months.

They sold out in ONE day. Do the math. $300 x 2500 = $750,000.

There's no way that it cost more than $50k to create all 2500 editions. Probably much less. So Trent made at least $700k in profit, in 24 hours without the product even existing at that point.

And that doesn't even include how much Trent made from the "regular" version of the release - the $5 digital download, the $10 double CD, and the $75 deluxe edition which was the digital download, the CD's, the multitracks DVD and the high-def BluRay! In that first day of release, Trent easily made $1million.

Imagine if Prince did that! Even with a new album let alone vault material! I reckon Prince could shift 5000 copies at the same price because his fanbase is bigger than NIN's. That's $1.5million right there JUST from an ultra-deluxe package! With revenue from a regular release, and perhaps a deluxe release with a T-shirt, coffee table photobook, and high-def audio BluRay (I don't expect Prince to release his multi-tracks like Trent did)

That would solve the issue he has with not getting paid up front.

The best thing is, the "Ghosts" set wasn't even THAT good. It was 4 CD's of ambient instrumentals. And I'm a BIG NIN fan and I could only listen to it a few times.

Prince could either do this with a new record, or compile "Crystal Ball 2" and make BANK, and very quickly too.

I wish I could be his business advisor.

I think Prince's attitude right now is, "why bother to release anything, when it's just going to be pirated and I won't see a dime." Not saying that is right or wrong, but from what I can tell from his statements, it's how he feels.

I personally think it's time for recording artists to come to terms with the fact that recordings/record sales are no longer a vehicle to make money; they're released to reach an audience. Having this audience allows the artist to make money via live shows, licensing, merchandise, etc.

I'm not going to feel bad for my favorite musicians because they're making fewer millions.

[Edited 7/2/11 13:17pm]

Imaginative said:

Having this audience allows the artist to make money via live shows, licensing, merchandise, etc.

Exactly. I'm doing a 360 deal with my band right now and we have no problems with doing that. The investment on that basis means exploration of as many revenue streams as possible.

Militant said:

Prince should try the Trent Reznor approach.

The best thing is, the "Ghosts" set wasn't even THAT good. It was 4 CD's of ambient instrumentals. And I'm a BIG NIN fan and I could only listen to it a few times.

Trent Reznor/NIN is a very good example of what could/can be done regarding the release of music.

I was astounded the first time I visited their website, within minutes I had a FLAC download (inc full artwork) of their lastest album, for free, no strings bullshit, just good music given to fans for nothing.

Lessons to be learned here for sure.

I visit a lot of music sites, and the NIN official site is one of the most comprehensive I have seen in a long time, The information contained within is very useful to me.

As for the "Ghosts" set, I love it, I like all that stuff, "The Social Network" ost and the music for the "Quake" game too, I like all that more than the regular albums.

Sorry for going off topic.

[Edited 7/2/11 13:49pm]

Prince has lost the fuckin' last train, and he fuckin' knows it...

the remasters craze was during the 98-04 era, but Prince was jerking himself off during those years...

his mainstream audience doesn't care about him anymore...shit, there's only us, the hardcore, and he treat us like SHIT

bootlegs?? unreleased material? haaaaAaaaAAAAA!" who gives a fuck about that material? The hardcore fans! but he treat us like shit

he CAN'T make BIG money anymore, he can't properly tour the world anymore, he's done, the second half of the 00's mainstream audience (raised by Timberlake, Rihanna, GaGa, etc.) doesn't even know him, or they think he's just as old as the Beatles ..."my daddy's music"...fuck 'em

It's over guys, This is IT. He could retire tomorrow for all the fuck I care.

TheDigitalGardener said:

Militant said:

Prince should try the Trent Reznor approach.

The best thing is, the "Ghosts" set wasn't even THAT good. It was 4 CD's of ambient instrumentals. And I'm a BIG NIN fan and I could only listen to it a few times.

Trent Reznor/NIN is a very good example of what could/can be done regarding the release of music.

I was astounded the first time I visited their website, within minutes I had a FLAC download (inc full artwork) of their lastest album, for free, no strings bullshit, just good music given to fans for nothing.

Lessons to be learned here for sure.

I visit a lot of music sites, and the NIN official site is one of the most comprehensive I have seen in a long time, The information contained within is very useful to me.

As for the "Ghosts" set, I love it, I like all that stuff, "The Social Network" ost and the music for the "Quake" game too, I like all that more than the regular albums.

Sorry for going off topic.

[Edited 7/2/11 13:49pm]

I like Trent's instrumental stuff plenty, and I'm looking forward to what he does score-wise for "The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo" - he's off to a good start with the cover of Led Zep's "Immigrant Song" with Karen O from Yeah Yeah Yeahs....

But I'd take proper NIN songs over that stuff anyday! For me, "Pretty Hate Machine", "Year Zero", "The Downward Spiral" and "The Fragile" are some of my favorite albums of all time.

Militant said:

TheDigitalGardener said:

Trent Reznor/NIN is a very good example of what could/can be done regarding the release of music.

I was astounded the first time I visited their website, within minutes I had a FLAC download (inc full artwork) of their lastest album, for free, no strings bullshit, just good music given to fans for nothing.

Lessons to be learned here for sure.

I visit a lot of music sites, and the NIN official site is one of the most comprehensive I have seen in a long time, The information contained within is very useful to me.

As for the "Ghosts" set, I love it, I like all that stuff, "The Social Network" ost and the music for the "Quake" game too, I like all that more than the regular albums.

Sorry for going off topic.

[Edited 7/2/11 13:49pm]

I like Trent's instrumental stuff plenty, and I'm looking forward to what he does score-wise for "The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo" - he's off to a good start with the cover of Led Zep's "Immigrant Song" with Karen O from Yeah Yeah Yeahs....

But I'd take proper NIN songs over that stuff anyday! For me, "Pretty Hate Machine", "Year Zero", "The Downward Spiral" and "The Fragile" are some of my favorite albums of all time.

It was the wild west.

That is the truth.

But the dust is finally settling and new business models are being drawn up by people who understand the internet and see the vast opportunities in it. Amazon, Google, Apple, Facebook, Spotify among others with their cloud services. It will change the game forever.

Prince and all of the major artist that have up in arms, were up in arms rightfully so. Their music labels and the music industry dropped the ball on them. Major artists like the Beatles that had held off for so long were right in doing so. They couldn't just throw their arms up in defeat. It would have been foolishly ignorant to do so. But by this time next year I think Prince can feel a little safer, the smell of money will have tamed the wild west.

[Edited 7/2/11 14:55pm]

<---listening to 1999 vinyl remaster

leonche64 said:

fever said: Can you imgine a two disc release of the best from the vault 80-87? He tried it with Crystal Ball, but that was a complete clusterfuck, and not nearly as good as it could've been.

What songs are you talking about? In the 30 years since then he has put out hundreds of songs. It seems to be a popular myth running through the ORG that he is just keeping the best songs locked away somewhere out of spite. What would be the purpose of that? I am certain he has a lot of recorded material ready to go. But if he felt he had some groundbreaking sure fire hit, it would have been released by now, as he has needed one for a long time. I am guessing that when that door swings open, a lot of folks are going to discover just that.

We've heard plenty of fantastic songs through bootleg recordings that haven't been released.

fever said:

We've heard plenty of fantastic songs through bootleg recordings that haven't been released.

I was not being snide, I really mean what songs so I can run them down. I have been in China for the last 8 years and only relatively recently discoverd the ORG, so I am out of the loop.

Militant said:

Prince should try the Trent Reznor approach.

Trent created a custom "ultra deluxe" edition (I believe it was for the 'Ghosts' release) including the CD's, a DVD with multitracks, a Blu-Ray with super high quality audio (24 bit), a photo book, and an artwork book, numbered and limited to 2500 copies, each signed by Trent.

The pre-order came with an immediate digital download.

The best thing was, the product didn't even exist when people ordered them. They cost $300 each and didn't ship for something like two months.

They sold out in ONE day. Do the math. $300 x 2500 = $750,000.

There's no way that it cost more than $50k to create all 2500 editions. Probably much less. So Trent made at least $700k in profit, in 24 hours without the product even existing at that point.

And that doesn't even include how much Trent made from the "regular" version of the release - the $5 digital download, the $10 double CD, and the $75 deluxe edition which was the digital download, the CD's, the multitracks DVD and the high-def BluRay! In that first day of release, Trent easily made $1million.

Imagine if Prince did that! Even with a new album let alone vault material! I reckon Prince could shift 5000 copies at the same price because his fanbase is bigger than NIN's. That's $1.5million right there JUST from an ultra-deluxe package! With revenue from a regular release, and perhaps a deluxe release with a T-shirt, coffee table photobook, and high-def audio BluRay (I don't expect Prince to release his multi-tracks like Trent did)

That would solve the issue he has with not getting paid up front.

The best thing is, the "Ghosts" set wasn't even THAT good. It was 4 CD's of ambient instrumentals. And I'm a BIG NIN fan and I could only listen to it a few times.

Prince could either do this with a new record, or compile "Crystal Ball 2" and make BANK, and very quickly too.

I wish I could be his business advisor.

THIS is the future, right here, right now.

leonche64 said:

THIS is the future, right here, right now.

in the future, everyone shares their music online for free, and make their money doing gigs.

thisisit said:

leonche64 said:

THIS is the future, right here, right now.

in the future, everyone shares their music online for free, and make their money doing gigs.

What about people who don't gig? What about the songwriters? The producers? Do they get a cut of the performance fee? How is that even fair?