muleFunk said:

Listen very carefully.... If the record company does not want you to have a number one song/record ....you will not have one. That's a quote from Barry White.Go and look at the charts. Prince did not have a number one song after he signed that contract.

Oh please... It's not as if Prince regularly had #1 songs... and let's not ignore just how crappily Prince handled business decisions during this period. D&P was obviously a money play and it got him a supposedly lucrative new contract with WB just as he wanted but then he a) didn't want to do the work to earn the money and b) made decisions that were counter-productive.

For the album, for example, Prince went against WB suggestions and made the wrong single choices. Sales and chart performance suffered and Prince himself is to blame... of course, when the numbers don't add up and there are no bonuses then suddenly he finds someone else to blame.

He'll waste time producing music videos, one after the other, that never see the light of day and then complain when a single bottoms out.

Even today, he expects advance payment from someone for his albums rather than working to make those sales himself.

After you achieve fame and get the girl, the only thing that's left to motivate the rock star is $$$.

muleFunk said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Paranoid bullshit. Disproven by FACTS. Let's see: he worked with EMI, BMG, Arista,... Oh yeah, some serious blacklisting there.

Fuck u Bart but thanks for the link for actual numbers with the contract. .The rest was scuttlebutt around Nashville's music scene.

See, it must be true because those guys said it. Never mind that he signed contracts with EMI in 1996 and BMG in 1998 and Arista in 1999.

I cannot for the life of me figure out how people can say Prince is all about the $. If you even stop and think about it for half a second, there's plenty more he'd be doing if it was all about the $.

1. Have a web shop where we can pay per download for vault tracks & videos.

2. Sell downloads of each live show the next day.

3. Issue remasters of his catalogue.

4. A DVD from each tour.

Those could earn him so good $ and that's with only a tiny amount of thought.

Prince is all about control, that's the bottom line.

TheEnglishGent said:

Those could earn him so good $ and that's with only a tiny amount of thought.

Prince is all about control, that's the bottom line.

You're right about control, but you're mistaken to think that Prince throwing out content automatically equals cash prizes in his wallet.

He's had bad luck from flooding the market with sub-par material, and the overhead and risk involved with most of those projects, even just the infrastructure to sell it, would require more risk and cash investments.

co-sign..exactly on point.....it is all about control....

he has lots of money and he knows damn well he could make a quick buck very easily.. at the moment though he is making a lot of very quick nd easy money by touring....hell, his residencies in London 2007 and then in NY/LA must have netted a nice wee sum....

he'll release more music when he needs to....when the terms are to his favour... in the interim he'll continue the damn hits shows...and milk them for all they're worth....

damn shame really...I preferred the Prince who used up everyone else's money and gave us 2 - 3 albums a year

[Edited 7/1/11 1:48am]

treehouse said:

TheEnglishGent said:

Those could earn him so good $ and that's with only a tiny amount of thought.

Prince is all about control, that's the bottom line.

You're right about control, but you're mistaken to think that Prince throwing out content automatically equals cash prizes in his wallet.

He's had bad luck from flooding the market with sub-par material, and the overhead and risk involved with most of those projects, even just the infrastructure to sell it, would require more risk and cash investments.

Bad business sense doesn't mean bad luck!

treehouse said:

TheEnglishGent said:

Those could earn him so good $ and that's with only a tiny amount of thought.

Prince is all about control, that's the bottom line.

You're right about control, but you're mistaken to think that Prince throwing out content automatically equals cash prizes in his wallet.

He's had bad luck from flooding the market with sub-par material, and the overhead and risk involved with most of those projects, even just the infrastructure to sell it, would require more risk and cash investments.

Nonsense. He could easily run a small independent record empire if that's actually what he wanted. Even with the mistakes he's already made (his last to websites, the LATA DVD, NPG Records, not releasing albums in the US, etc etc etc). But he doesn't want that, he wants to be the big thing on the big label selling millions like he did twenty years ago. Honestly, the only person who stopped him from doing that was himself, and it will never be that way again.

TheEnglishGent said:

Prince is all about control, that's the bottom line.

Oh please, the dude gave away control in the past 15 years plenty of times, and then bitched about that three months later. Wave enough cash in front of his face and away go the principles.

muleFunk said:

When WB put Prince in their R&B division.

People can get on here and rant and rave about Prince's music sucks and the standard bullshit about how crazy he is. Bottomline is about how many units did he put out and although he was one of the biggest acts in the 80's his music did not sell like people think THEN. Prince's sales were good from 89-92, not great,but good when WB signed him to the infamous last contract.

One of the unknown mysteries is why WB after signing Prince to this multi million dollar contract would put him in the R&B division cutting him off from at least 2/3rds of his market as far as promotion is concerned.

Some of you are too young to really know what I am talking about here. Before the industry turned to rap as it's money maker music was segregated. The guys that really ended that format were Prince and Michael Jackson. By the early 1990's those guys had basically ended that stale format but you go and put Prince back in the R&B division.

In other words when he had a new album it was given to BET to promote. MTV would catch it at the end of the first week of promotion.

IMO this is what REALLY started that feud with WB.

Wow. I truly appreciate this entire post.

As for the folks that complain about Prince's current output, they have no musical ground to stand on. 'Lotusflower' will stand the test of time as a truly fantastic album... with or without Prince fans.

It's really a tragedy he decided to stop recording/releasing albums, as that's where Prince is incredibly fresh.

Giovanni777 said:

muleFunk said:

When WB put Prince in their R&B division.

People can get on here and rant and rave about Prince's music sucks and the standard bullshit about how crazy he is. Bottomline is about how many units did he put out and although he was one of the biggest acts in the 80's his music did not sell like people think THEN. Prince's sales were good from 89-92, not great,but good when WB signed him to the infamous last contract.

One of the unknown mysteries is why WB after signing Prince to this multi million dollar contract would put him in the R&B division cutting him off from at least 2/3rds of his market as far as promotion is concerned.

Some of you are too young to really know what I am talking about here. Before the industry turned to rap as it's money maker music was segregated. The guys that really ended that format were Prince and Michael Jackson. By the early 1990's those guys had basically ended that stale format but you go and put Prince back in the R&B division.

In other words when he had a new album it was given to BET to promote. MTV would catch it at the end of the first week of promotion.

IMO this is what REALLY started that feud with WB.

Wow. I truly appreciate this entire post.

As for the folks that complain about Prince's current output, they have no musical ground to stand on. 'Lotusflower' will stand the test of time as a truly fantastic album... with or without Prince fans.

It's really a tragedy he decided to stop recording/releasing albums, as that's where Prince is incredibly fresh.

That's actually why I make threads like this....To learn things about stuff I didn't know about. I have no problem with the current music Prince releases though whatsoever...

BartVanHemelen said:

muleFunk said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Fuck u Bart but thanks for the link for actual numbers with the contract. .The rest was scuttlebutt around Nashville's music scene.

See, it must be true because those guys said it. Never mind that he signed contracts with EMI in 1996 and BMG in 1998 and Arista in 1999.

Well the people that I heard it from had #1 records on the Country chart and were fans of Prince. So I did listened to what they said and it still holds weight with me today.

But you make a damn good point here and I am interested in your opinion. Prince signed with EMI which promptly went bankrupt right after Prince signed. The BMG deal was with New Power Soul and supposedly a NPG album so I will say that was a one off type deal.

The Arista deal was the best of them all. The Clive Davis machine then got cranked up and the promotion was on. Prince had a good album that was trendy and hip sounding. He had interesting collaborations that people had been clamoring for. One song is released which got airplay and was in rotation. Everything looks good.

Then the bottom fell out.

Clive Davis is removed from Arista and replaced with L.A. Reid who allegedy had some sort of feud going on with Prince and the record dies. L.A. Reid was also alleged to have told people he was going to destroy Prince's career.

Regardless of opinion of the album, Arista made worst albums chart and win awards. Why would you release an album and let it die... regardless to what the artist is doing. They are on the hook as well at least to recoup monies spent in promotion.

I can understand some of the Prince sabotaged albums arguements, but it is not making sense for all of these cases and IMO it did not happen without the help of people encouraging failure. Prince had videos ready for the Rave project the most widely known is the Hot Wit U with Eve,he had remixes ready, The Rave In2 is proof So Bart I want you to be objective what happened to this project?

Giovanni777 said:

muleFunk said:

When WB put Prince in their R&B division.

People can get on here and rant and rave about Prince's music sucks and the standard bullshit about how crazy he is. Bottomline is about how many units did he put out and although he was one of the biggest acts in the 80's his music did not sell like people think THEN. Prince's sales were good from 89-92, not great,but good when WB signed him to the infamous last contract.

One of the unknown mysteries is why WB after signing Prince to this multi million dollar contract would put him in the R&B division cutting him off from at least 2/3rds of his market as far as promotion is concerned.

Some of you are too young to really know what I am talking about here. Before the industry turned to rap as it's money maker music was segregated. The guys that really ended that format were Prince and Michael Jackson. By the early 1990's those guys had basically ended that stale format but you go and put Prince back in the R&B division.

In other words when he had a new album it was given to BET to promote. MTV would catch it at the end of the first week of promotion.

IMO this is what REALLY started that feud with WB.

Wow. I truly appreciate this entire post.

As for the folks that complain about Prince's current output, they have no musical ground to stand on. 'Lotusflower' will stand the test of time as a truly fantastic album... with or without Prince fans.

It's really a tragedy he decided to stop recording/releasing albums, as that's where Prince is incredibly fresh.

Gio I believe that you have some knowledge in the music biz so how far off am I . The whole Prince is crazy argument does not hold weight in many of these situations. It makes you wonder who did he really piss off.

jtfolden said:

muleFunk said:

Listen very carefully.... If the record company does not want you to have a number one song/record ....you will not have one. That's a quote from Barry White.Go and look at the charts. Prince did not have a number one song after he signed that contract.

Oh please... It's not as if Prince regularly had #1 songs... and let's not ignore just how crappily Prince handled business decisions during this period. D&P was obviously a money play and it got him a supposedly lucrative new contract with WB just as he wanted but then he a) didn't want to do the work to earn the money and b) made decisions that were counter-productive.

For the album, for example, Prince went against WB suggestions and made the wrong single choices. Sales and chart performance suffered and Prince himself is to blame... of course, when the numbers don't add up and there are no bonuses then suddenly he finds someone else to blame.

He'll waste time producing music videos, one after the other, that never see the light of day and then complain when a single bottoms out.

Even today, he expects advance payment from someone for his albums rather than working to make those sales himself.

7 was a bad choice for a single? I can understand Sexy MF (which was a huge club hit) and My Name Is Prince but 7?

7 had 3 songs skip over it to go number 1. Other music charts had 7 at number 1 but it never made 1 on Billboard. Just like U Got The Look and Purple Rain which also stayed at #2 for a month.

muleFunk said:

Giovanni777 said:

Wow. I truly appreciate this entire post.

As for the folks that complain about Prince's current output, they have no musical ground to stand on. 'Lotusflower' will stand the test of time as a truly fantastic album... with or without Prince fans.

It's really a tragedy he decided to stop recording/releasing albums, as that's where Prince is incredibly fresh.

Gio I believe that you have some knowledge in the music biz so how far off am I . The whole Prince is crazy argument does not hold weight in many of these situations. It makes you wonder who did he really piss off.

I hate to bring up a cliche....but...um..."Illuminati" maybe?

Tittypants said:

I would personally say when he did the "Batman" Soundtrack, but hey I could be wrong. But when do you think Prince truly started doing things [only] for the $? That seems to be all he's about nowadays....

....Now I wonder how much we'd have to pay to hear him perform his old songs with uncensored/original lyrics live?????

When Prince stopped getting paid in Snicker Bars currency.

muleFunk said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Well the people that I heard it from had #1 records on the Country chart and were fans of Prince. So I did listened to what they said and it still holds weight with me today.

But you make a damn good point here and I am interested in your opinion. Prince signed with EMI which promptly went bankrupt right after Prince signed. The BMG deal was with New Power Soul and supposedly a NPG album so I will say that was a one off type deal.

The Arista deal was the best of them all. The Clive Davis machine then got cranked up and the promotion was on. Prince had a good album that was trendy and hip sounding. He had interesting collaborations that people had been clamoring for. One song is released which got airplay and was in rotation. Everything looks good.

Then the bottom fell out.

Clive Davis is removed from Arista and replaced with L.A. Reid who allegedy had some sort of feud going on with Prince and the record dies. L.A. Reid was also alleged to have told people he was going to destroy Prince's career.

Regardless of opinion of the album, Arista made worst albums chart and win awards. Why would you release an album and let it die... regardless to what the artist is doing. They are on the hook as well at least to recoup monies spent in promotion.

I can understand some of the Prince sabotaged albums arguements, but it is not making sense for all of these cases and IMO it did not happen without the help of people encouraging failure. Prince had videos ready for the Rave project the most widely known is the Hot Wit U with Eve,he had remixes ready, The Rave In2 is proof So Bart I want you to be objective what happened to this project?

lol.... Clive Davis put in plenty of time on Rave and Prince, in typical fashion, blew it all by being a brat. Clive had disavowed Rave well before he was ousted from Arista.

Oh god the self righteous shit again

if you had a chance to get money you would take it

purpledoveuk said:

Timmy84 said:

^ Yeah that 1992 WB re-signing was nuts. He was trying to compete with Michael, Janet and Madonna, all three of whom had signed these then-lucrative multi-million dollar deals.

Slightly ironic/hypocritical after his last album prior to that deal had a song about greed and the pitfalls of money

But the music video showed a poor family, and then would switch to Prince singing into a gold microphone and wearing fancy clothes.

muleFunk said:

But you make a damn good point here and I am interested in your opinion. Prince signed with EMI which promptly went bankrupt right after Prince signed.

No it didn't.

The BMG deal was with New Power Soul and supposedly a NPG album so I will say that was a one off type deal.

All of his deals were/are. Which is part of the problem.

The Arista deal was the best of them all. The Clive Davis machine then got cranked up and the promotion was on. Prince had a good album that was trendy and hip sounding.

Hah. Dream on.

He had interesting collaborations that people had been clamoring for. One song is released which got airplay and was in rotation. Everything looks good.

Then the bottom fell out.

No, then Prince had lost interest. Big shock for him: Clive Davis actually gave him orders, told him "do this" and "don't do that" and of course Prince didn't like that. Rave was dead and buried before it hit shops. Go read Uptown's article.

Clive Davis is removed from Arista and replaced with L.A. Reid who allegedy had some sort of feud going on with Prince and the record dies.

Pur-lease. Typical Prince-fam paranoid bullcrap. Nothing you said is backed up by facts.

I can understand some of the Prince sabotaged albums arguements, but it is not making sense for all of these cases

It is the ONLY thing that makes sense. It fits into a pattern of Prince sabotaging himself. What's more likely: that Prince encountered the same problems over and over again at every record company he signed with, or that Prince CAUSED the same problems over and over again at every record company he signed with?

and IMO it did not happen without the help of people encouraging failure. Prince had videos ready for the Rave project

The video for the first single wasn't finished until weeks after the release. Oh, and the first single was a thinly disguised attempt at re-doing "The Most Beautiful Girl In The World", except with a far crappier song and a bunch of mediocre remixes. It hit... number 63 on the charts.

the most widely known is the Hot Wit U with Eve,he had remixes ready, The Rave In2 is proof

Dude, Rave In2 was gonna be 2 albums, which is what he announced around the same time as the regular album was released. What a brilliant piece of marketing was that: disowning your own frikking album and telling fans that they'd get the real deal from his own website.

Rave Un2 was released in early November. A month later Prince was taping Rave Un2 The Year 2000 and it had virtually nothing to do with the album. But yeah, let's pretend Prince was sabotaged -- instead of admitting the truth: that he was and is his own worst enemy.

http://web.archive.org/we..._rave.html

According to sources in the music industry, is upset with Arista’s marketing efforts and largely blames the record company for the album’s less-than-stellar sales.

That's funny, that's the same bullcrap I hear with EVERY release of his that bombs.

I'll give you one $ for this thread...

muleFunk said:

The Arista deal was the best of them all. The Clive Davis machine then got cranked up and the promotion was on. Prince had a good album that was trendy and hip sounding. He had interesting collaborations that people had been clamoring for. One song is released which got airplay and was in rotation. Everything looks good.

Then the bottom fell out.

Clive Davis is removed from Arista and replaced with L.A. Reid who allegedy had some sort of feud going on with Prince and the record dies. L.A. Reid was also alleged to have told people he was going to destroy Prince's career.

Regardless of opinion of the album, Arista made worst albums chart and win awards. Why would you release an album and let it die... regardless to what the artist is doing. They are on the hook as well at least to recoup monies spent in promotion.

I can understand some of the Prince sabotaged albums arguements, but it is not making sense for all of these cases and IMO it did not happen without the help of people encouraging failure. Prince had videos ready for the Rave project the most widely known is the Hot Wit U with Eve,he had remixes ready, The Rave In2 is proof So Bart I want you to be objective what happened to this project?

That's not quite how it happened. It's obvious that Prince wasn't especially thrilled with how TGRES did on the charts and Prince sat on his ass for follow-up single(s). He even posted on the Love4OneAnother site at the time that he was sitting back and waiting for Clive to make good on his promise to give him a #1 hit.

Prince frequently films videos and creates remixes that never see the light of day. He's been doing this his entire career. Examples that immediately come to mind are the unreleased LoveSexy single and the I Hate U video.

muleFunk said:

7 was a bad choice for a single? I can understand Sexy MF (which was a huge club hit) and My Name Is Prince but 7?

7 had 3 songs skip over it to go number 1. Other music charts had 7 at number 1 but it never made 1 on Billboard. Just like U Got The Look and Purple Rain which also stayed at #2 for a month.

"7" was the song that WB suggested as the first single from the album. Prince refused and went with other tracks instead (Sexy MF reached 66, MNIP hit 34). It was only when those tanked that he relented.

Also, "7" never went higher than number seven on the singles chart. It may have gone higher if it were the first single.

jtfolden said:

muleFunk said:

7 was a bad choice for a single? I can understand Sexy MF (which was a huge club hit) and My Name Is Prince but 7?

7 had 3 songs skip over it to go number 1. Other music charts had 7 at number 1 but it never made 1 on Billboard. Just like U Got The Look and Purple Rain which also stayed at #2 for a month.

"7" was the song that WB suggested as the first single from the album. Prince refused and went with other tracks instead (Sexy MF reached 66, MNIP hit 34). It was only when those tanked that he relented.

Also, "7" never went higher than number seven on the singles chart. It may have gone higher if it were the first single.

7 was higher and at one point was #2.

Now that's the first time that I heard that 7 was WB's choice to be the lead off single from that album. Thanks for that info.

[Edited 7/1/11 13:15pm]

muleFunk said:

jtfolden said:

"7" was the song that WB suggested as the first single from the album. Prince refused and went with other tracks instead (Sexy MF reached 66, MNIP hit 34). It was only when those tanked that he relented.

Also, "7" never went higher than number seven on the singles chart. It may have gone higher if it were the first single.

7 was higher and at one point was #2.

..not in the US.

when he signed to Warner Brothers?

BartVanHemelen said:

muleFunk said:

But you make a damn good point here and I am interested in your opinion. Prince signed with EMI which promptly went bankrupt right after Prince signed.

No it didn't.

EMI did not go bankrupt at this time ????

Dude, Rave In2 was gonna be 2 albums, which is what he announced around the same time as the regular album was released. What a brilliant piece of marketing was that: disowning your own frikking album and telling fans that they'd get the real deal from his own website.

No disagreement here. Bad move.

Rave Un2 was released in early November. A month later Prince was taping Rave Un2 The Year 2000 and it had virtually nothing to do with the album. But yeah, let's pretend Prince was sabotaged -- instead of admitting the truth: that he was and is his own worst enemy.

http://web.archive.org/we..._rave.html

According to sources in the music industry, is upset with Arista’s marketing efforts and largely blames the record company for the album’s less-than-stellar sales.

That's funny, that's the same bullcrap I hear with EVERY release of his that bombs.

That's why I love Bart... you get him stirred up and he will respond.

Let's say that you are 100% correct Bart.

We all know that Prince will do some fucked up stuff but WHY would Davis and others keep dealing with him?

muleFunk said:

BartVanHemelen said:

That's funny, that's the same bullcrap I hear with EVERY release of his that bombs.

That's why I love Bart... you get him stirred up and he will respond.

Let's say that you are 100% correct Bart.

We all know that Prince will do some fucked up stuff but WHY would Davis and others keep dealing with him?

lol. So first you walk around with your chest puffed up like you know there is some sort of fucking conspiracy going on and now your tune swiftly changes...

Spinlight said:

muleFunk said:

That's why I love Bart... you get him stirred up and he will respond.

Let's say that you are 100% correct Bart.

We all know that Prince will do some fucked up stuff but WHY would Davis and others keep dealing with him?

lol. So first you walk around with your chest puffed up like you know there is some sort of fucking conspiracy going on and now your tune swiftly changes...

Spinlight said:

muleFunk said:

That's why I love Bart... you get him stirred up and he will respond.

Let's say that you are 100% correct Bart.

We all know that Prince will do some fucked up stuff but WHY would Davis and others keep dealing with him?

lol. So first you walk around with your chest puffed up like you know there is some sort of fucking conspiracy going on and now your tune swiftly changes...

No.

I think the truth is somewhere in between.

Prince made some bonehead decisions but I do think that he was conspired against in some cases.