I would personally say when he did the "Batman" Soundtrack, but hey I could be wrong. But when do you think Prince truly started doing things [only] for the $? That seems to be all he's about nowadays....

....Now I wonder how much we'd have to pay to hear him perform his old songs with uncensored/original lyrics live?????

When WB put Prince in their R&B division.

People can get on here and rant and rave about Prince's music sucks and the standard bullshit about how crazy he is. Bottomline is about how many units did he put out and although he was one of the biggest acts in the 80's his music did not sell like people think THEN. Prince's sales were good from 89-92, not great,but good when WB signed him to the infamous last contract.

One of the unknown mysteries is why WB after signing Prince to this multi million dollar contract would put him in the R&B division cutting him off from at least 2/3rds of his market as far as promotion is concerned.

Some of you are too young to really know what I am talking about here. Before the industry turned to rap as it's money maker music was segregated. The guys that really ended that format were Prince and Michael Jackson. By the early 1990's those guys had basically ended that stale format but you go and put Prince back in the R&B division.

In other words when he had a new album it was given to BET to promote. MTV would catch it at the end of the first week of promotion.

IMO this is what REALLY started that feud with WB.

When he decided to become a professional musician, and signed his 1st contract with WB, I would guess, Listen musicians would play for free, but they'd rather be paid, and thats why they seek to get signed. Prince LOVES music, always has, and always will. Music seems to be 80% of his life, quite scary, but he's happy so... with that said, music will always be a musicians life, but when they start getting paid, it becomes a job. P would have made all the music he did, even if he didnt get paid, he was always trying to over-see WB & release more music than they wanted. But becoming a star, is always about the money. P knew he was great & could get paid for it, thats all about money so from the start he wanted money.

Not to say he didnt wanna lead a musical revolution, are get out a message, but thats possible without getting paid millions like P gets paid, & he still aint satisfied, people complained about him paying little from the start of his career in the 70's. P doesnt even make music for us, but himself if you ask me, we just all love his music, & im sure its satisfying to have so many people feel you or connect with you on that level. & no matter what he's charging @ a show, if u ever seen P live, you know once he's on the stage, its about the music, and I'll pay loads of $$$ for that.

I think Prince always showed a hunger for the money but he always wore his musical heart on his sleeve. I think when it became about CONTROL, that's when the money aspect overshadowed the recordings. But he still enjoys PLAYING it live though.

[Edited 6/30/11 10:17am]

Tittypants said:

^ Yeah that 1992 WB re-signing was nuts. He was trying to compete with Michael, Janet and Madonna, all three of whom had signed these then-lucrative multi-million dollar deals.

Timmy84 said:

purpledoveuk said:

Timmy84 said:

^ Yeah that 1992 WB re-signing was nuts. He was trying to compete with Michael, Janet and Madonna, all three of whom had signed these then-lucrative multi-million dollar deals.

Slightly ironic/hypocritical after his last album prior to that deal had a song about greed and the pitfalls of money

"Money don't matter tonight but it would surely matter by next year".

Tittypants said:

I would personally say when he did the "Batman" Soundtrack, but hey I could be wrong. But when do you think Prince truly started doing things [only] for the $? That seems to be all he's about nowadays....

....Now I wonder how much we'd have to pay to hear him perform his old songs with uncensored/original lyrics live?????

Its not JUST about the money else he'd be clamoring only all sorts of corporate sponsorships like other big name musicians... Its more about control and not being subordinate to others and their rules than money.

muleFunk said:

When WB put Prince in their R&B division.

People can get on here and rant and rave about Prince's music sucks and the standard bullshit about how crazy he is. Bottomline is about how many units did he put out and although he was one of the biggest acts in the 80's his music did not sell like people think THEN. Prince's sales were good from 89-92, not great,but good when WB signed him to the infamous last contract.

One of the unknown mysteries is why WB after signing Prince to this multi million dollar contract would put him in the R&B division cutting him off from at least 2/3rds of his market as far as promotion is concerned.

Some of you are too young to really know what I am talking about here. Before the industry turned to rap as it's money maker music was segregated. The guys that really ended that format were Prince and Michael Jackson. By the early 1990's those guys had basically ended that stale format but you go and put Prince back in the R&B division.

In other words when he had a new album it was given to BET to promote. MTV would catch it at the end of the first week of promotion.

IMO this is what REALLY started that feud with WB.

Oh no I was eight, nine years old at the time and I definitely read that Prince had been put in its R&B division. That's why I could partially understand why Prince got angry with Warner enough to write "SLAVE" on his face because he felt like Warner ripped him off. Then again, people were telling him prior to signing that IMHO stupid deal NOT to sign it but he thought he could trust Warner. He learned the hard way.

Timmy84 said:

^ Yeah that 1992 WB re-signing was nuts. He was trying to compete with Michael, Janet and Madonna, all three of whom had signed these then-lucrative multi-million dollar deals.

Yes that was the biggest f*ckup of his entire career. I think he would probably agree if he were being honest.

He signed a very long, very restrictive CON-tract and he did it of his own free will. And for the $$$$.

FunkiestOne said:

Timmy84 said:

^ Yeah that 1992 WB re-signing was nuts. He was trying to compete with Michael, Janet and Madonna, all three of whom had signed these then-lucrative multi-million dollar deals.

Yes that was the biggest f*ckup of his entire career. I think he would probably agree if he were being honest.

He signed a very long, very restrictive CON-tract and he did it of his own free will. And for the $$$$.

Right. He had as much at fault with it as Warner did.

Sadly a HUMAN trait.

Timmy84 said:

FunkiestOne said:

Yes that was the biggest f*ckup of his entire career. I think he would probably agree if he were being honest.

He signed a very long, very restrictive CON-tract and he did it of his own free will. And for the $$$$.

Right. He had as much at fault with it as Warner did.

None of those artists came through their own contracts unscathed.

What many of us (myself included) forget this is a business. Prince is in the business of making money hopefully just like you, His problem has been that his ventures have been misadventures. See that's what people don't know about the music biz. As fucked up as it has been with artist's not getting paid,etc, there is no other way that worked better.

muleFunk said:

Timmy84 said:

Right. He had as much at fault with it as Warner did.

None of those artists came through their own contracts unscathed.

What many of us (myself included) forget this is a business. Prince is in the business of making money hopefully just like you, His problem has been that his ventures have been misadventures. See that's what people don't know about the music biz. As fucked up as it has been with artist's not getting paid,etc, there is no other way that worked better.

Of course but still Prince should've studied the contracts and such before he decided to put pen to paper. In fact lots of artists now wished they had investigated contracts more. A hungry artist is addicted to money so they can help get themselves and their families out of poverty, which probably drove Prince as much as it did (hell he wasn't even 15 when he decided to go professional) but when more money comes and you forget to check the ingredients, you can be in for a sour taste in your mouth, which is what happened with Prince and his 1992 deal with WB.

Tittypants said:

I would personally say when he did the "Batman" Soundtrack, but hey I could be wrong. But when do you think Prince truly started doing things [only] for the $? That seems to be all he's about nowadays....

....Now I wonder how much we'd have to pay to hear him perform his old songs with uncensored/original lyrics live?????

I don't think it's only about money for Prince at all. If that were the case, I think there's a lot of things he could do to cash in and then just go sit on his ass and never make any more music.

If anything, he seems to have a tendency to do stuff that adversely affects how much income he could pull in, like not allowing his cds to be remastered and re-released...not releasing the stuff in the vault....I think those things and plenty others, he does because they don't feel right to him or he's against it on some deep level. If he only cared about money, he wouldn't give a shit and would just do that stuff, take the money and run.

muleFunk said:

When WB put Prince in their R&B division.

People can get on here and rant and rave about Prince's music sucks and the standard bullshit about how crazy he is. Bottomline is about how many units did he put out and although he was one of the biggest acts in the 80's his music did not sell like people think THEN. Prince's sales were good from 89-92, not great,but good when WB signed him to the infamous last contract.

One of the unknown mysteries is why WB after signing Prince to this multi million dollar contract would put him in the R&B division cutting him off from at least 2/3rds of his market as far as promotion is concerned.

Some of you are too young to really know what I am talking about here. Before the industry turned to rap as it's money maker music was segregated. The guys that really ended that format were Prince and Michael Jackson. By the early 1990's those guys had basically ended that stale format but you go and put Prince back in the R&B division.

In other words when he had a new album it was given to BET to promote. MTV would catch it at the end of the first week of promotion.

IMO this is what REALLY started that feud with WB.

I'm interested in your take on this, but you've gotta help me understand: WB paid prince $X million (I don't recall the figure now) to sign a contract which would allow them to effectively sell 1/3 the records?

eyewishuheaven said:

muleFunk said:

When WB put Prince in their R&B division.

People can get on here and rant and rave about Prince's music sucks and the standard bullshit about how crazy he is. Bottomline is about how many units did he put out and although he was one of the biggest acts in the 80's his music did not sell like people think THEN. Prince's sales were good from 89-92, not great,but good when WB signed him to the infamous last contract.

One of the unknown mysteries is why WB after signing Prince to this multi million dollar contract would put him in the R&B division cutting him off from at least 2/3rds of his market as far as promotion is concerned.

Some of you are too young to really know what I am talking about here. Before the industry turned to rap as it's money maker music was segregated. The guys that really ended that format were Prince and Michael Jackson. By the early 1990's those guys had basically ended that stale format but you go and put Prince back in the R&B division.

In other words when he had a new album it was given to BET to promote. MTV would catch it at the end of the first week of promotion.

IMO this is what REALLY started that feud with WB.

I'm interested in your take on this, but you've gotta help me understand: WB paid prince $X million (I don't recall the figure now) to sign a contract which would allow them to effectively sell 1/3 the records?

$100 million and I think he failed to reach that number.

in my opinion he makes music because he loves music, and he is entitled to be paid the appropriate amount.

It was just before Batman when Paisley Park was loosing hundreds of thousands a month and his managers didn't tell him. That's why Lovesexy tour went to Japan in early 1989 so the tour made a profit. With Batman he was given a million dollars advance for it, the Nude tour was to boost the bank balance on the back off "Nothing Compares 2 U" and the "Batman" success.

Also it's good to remember that he paid George Clinton's tax bill when he signed to Paisley Park, there's alot of big selling artists who didn't get paid as well as people think and Prince has seen this with his own eyes. So do you want make music and be broke or do you want to make music with money in the bank?

"When Did It Become Only About $?" I don't think it has it might seem that way sometimes. If you look back he could have made alot more than he did, even now he could make alot by releashing DELUXE 3 CD'S 2 DVD'S BOXSETS of each album (OH WHAT A FUCKING DREAMER I AM).

eyewishuheaven said:

muleFunk said:

When WB put Prince in their R&B division.

People can get on here and rant and rave about Prince's music sucks and the standard bullshit about how crazy he is. Bottomline is about how many units did he put out and although he was one of the biggest acts in the 80's his music did not sell like people think THEN. Prince's sales were good from 89-92, not great,but good when WB signed him to the infamous last contract.

One of the unknown mysteries is why WB after signing Prince to this multi million dollar contract would put him in the R&B division cutting him off from at least 2/3rds of his market as far as promotion is concerned.

Some of you are too young to really know what I am talking about here. Before the industry turned to rap as it's money maker music was segregated. The guys that really ended that format were Prince and Michael Jackson. By the early 1990's those guys had basically ended that stale format but you go and put Prince back in the R&B division.

In other words when he had a new album it was given to BET to promote. MTV would catch it at the end of the first week of promotion.

IMO this is what REALLY started that feud with WB.

I'm interested in your take on this, but you've gotta help me understand: WB paid prince $X million (I don't recall the figure now) to sign a contract which would allow them to effectively sell 1/3 the records?

The contract was contingent on Prince selling 1 million plus units per album before he started seeing the real money. Now why he signed such a contract is beyond me but it was similar to one that Madonna signed. Prince was either drunk or supremely cocky to think that he would sell that many records but he did have a hit album out there with D&P. By the time Symbol is released just about all of the pro Prince people at WB started getting fired or was retiring. They were replaced with people who were bean counters and people with axes to grind.

Listen very carefully.... If the record company does not want you to have a number one song/record ....you will not have one. That's a quote from Barry White.Go and look at the charts. Prince did not have a number one song after he signed that contract.

As we all know Prince can make people mad as Hell. If people here are mad as Hell at Prince for whatever reasons what do you think about the people who saw him everyday was feeling?

7 was number 2 for about 4 weeks straight without going #1.

Hell, Gold had at least 4 top ten hits and they underpromoted the Hell out the album. They let Prince wither on the vine and died a slow death.His deals after he left WB made him money but as far as chart success of hits you did not see them until Musicology.

If this was a lesser artist we wouldn't even be talking on a website about a 20Ten or Lotusflow3r because he would be signing in the local Holiday Inn. The man had damn near 90% of the music biz blacklisting him.

[Edited 6/30/11 16:27pm]

When he got the bills 4 operating Paisley Park...

purpledoveuk said:

Timmy84 said:

^ Yeah that 1992 WB re-signing was nuts. He was trying to compete with Michael, Janet and Madonna, all three of whom had signed these then-lucrative multi-million dollar deals.

Slightly ironic/hypocritical after his last album prior to that deal had a song about greed and the pitfalls of money

D&P is all about getting paid. It's a crass ode to being rich and powerful.

muleFunk said:

eyewishuheaven said:

I'm interested in your take on this, but you've gotta help me understand: WB paid prince $X million (I don't recall the figure now) to sign a contract which would allow them to effectively sell 1/3 the records?

The contract was contingent on Prince selling 1 million plus units per album before he started seeing the real money.

Oh fer crying out loud. http://prince.org/wiki/1992_Contract

If this was a lesser artist we wouldn't even be talking on a website about a 20Ten or Lotusflow3r because he would be signing in the local Holiday Inn. The man had damn near 90% of the music biz blacklisting him.

[Edited 6/30/11 16:27pm]

Paranoid bullshit. Disproven by FACTS. Let's see: he worked with EMI, BMG, Arista,... Oh yeah, some serious blacklisting there.

BartVanHemelen said:

BartVanHemelen said:

muleFunk said:

Oh fer crying out loud. http://prince.org/wiki/1992_Contract

If this was a lesser artist we wouldn't even be talking on a website about a 20Ten or Lotusflow3r because he would be signing in the local Holiday Inn. The man had damn near 90% of the music biz blacklisting him.

[Edited 6/30/11 16:27pm]

Paranoid bullshit. Disproven by FACTS. Let's see: he worked with EMI, BMG, Arista,... Oh yeah, some serious blacklisting there.

I guess people wanna believe that Prince is not at fault with what happened in that scenario lol

NPGMC

Timmy84 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

I guess people wanna believe that Prince is not at fault with what happened in that scenario lol

It's always three versions of what happened . Your side,my side, and then the truth. Truth is we are all speculating because for the most part we are hearing one side of events. Do I think Prince was at fault for most of these failures? Yes.

But it was also a lot of pettiness and bullshit afloat and afoot at the time.

If Prince had any real business sense he would have one of the most succesful independent record labels on the planet. And we all know how that worked out in the past. If dude could just hire the right people and work with them the way other independent labels are run he could sell 20,000 copies and make boxes full of money. There is a huge long list of independent labels whose artists (bands, with more than one person to pay) aren't selling that many copies and they are still able to make money. He could release his own new music, his own vault, his own remastered albums as ownership shifts back to him, his own live albums and videos, Sheila's music, Eric Leeds music, etc etc and whatever! The point is, when your return is $7-8 per unit sold, you don't need to sell that many to make a profit. But it doesn't happen through osmosis, or because you wish it. It actually takes work, and a lot of it. Sooo