PurpleLove7 said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Emancipation is the album that Prince was born 2 make. It went double platinum & made him millions. It must have made Mayte proud, 2 b his first wife & mother of his first child & have a whole cd dedicated 2 her, during this period of celebrating his exit from the WB .

But destiny had other plans, Which Larry helped him through by introducing him 2 Jehovah & being instrumental in putting Prince finally @ peace with himself & his past life. .

[img:$uid]http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL2084/9118410/23710928/395436822.jpg[/img:$uid]

Nice photo ...

Thank U....

erik319 said:

Artists also reach a point (if successful in their own lifetimes, i'm thinking Picasso & Andy Warhol), that they feel invincible & know they can release any old shite and their gullible fans will lap it up in an 'Emperor's New Clothes' kind of way.

Whether they feel invincible or not, is just speculation. We don't know how they feel.

Besides, artists have no obligations towards their audience on an emotional level. If you go and see a movie, you don't get your money back just because you didn't like the ending. And if you pay for a Prince CD, and you get a Prince CD, then Prince has in fact fulfilled his duties towards you as a consumer - regardless of whether you enjoy the music on it or not.

Personally, I'm not thrilled by everything Prince has released. But I have no reason to assume that he wasn't satisfied with it himself. Neither do I believe that he would purposely make music of lesser quality (whatever that is, anyway), just because it's supposedly "easier". I mean, if that's the case, it would be even easier to not make any music at all...

RealMusician said:

erik319 said:

Artists also reach a point (if successful in their own lifetimes, i'm thinking Picasso & Andy Warhol), that they feel invincible & know they can release any old shite and their gullible fans will lap it up in an 'Emperor's New Clothes' kind of way.

Whether they feel invincible or not, is just speculation. We don't know how they feel.

Besides, artists have no obligations towards their audience on an emotional level. If you go and see a movie, you don't get your money back just because you didn't like the ending. And if you pay for a Prince CD, and you get a Prince CD, then Prince has in fact fulfilled his duties towards you as a consumer - regardless of whether you enjoy the music on it or not.

Personally, I'm not thrilled by everything Prince has released. But I have no reason to assume that he wasn't satisfied with it himself. Neither do I believe that he would purposely make music of lesser quality (whatever that is, anyway), just because it's supposedly "easier". I mean, if that's the case, it would be even easier to not make any music at all...

Well said, along with the other three points you made. I happen to like Emancipation. I think it is a great force, but my liking it does not justify one way or the other whether or not Prince was trying too hard or not. I often cringe whenever Prince raps, and I don't like much rap, but is he trying to hard to be popular or is he just engaging another medium? I can understand when someone says they don't like something. But, I never understand when someone says Prince wasn't trying or this sounds uninspired, especially when I can hear the inspiration and passion in a song like "Colonized Mind," that many say falls flat and sounds uninspired.

1725topp said:

RealMusician said:

Whether they feel invincible or not, is just speculation. We don't know how they feel.

Besides, artists have no obligations towards their audience on an emotional level. If you go and see a movie, you don't get your money back just because you didn't like the ending. And if you pay for a Prince CD, and you get a Prince CD, then Prince has in fact fulfilled his duties towards you as a consumer - regardless of whether you enjoy the music on it or not.

Personally, I'm not thrilled by everything Prince has released. But I have no reason to assume that he wasn't satisfied with it himself. Neither do I believe that he would purposely make music of lesser quality (whatever that is, anyway), just because it's supposedly "easier". I mean, if that's the case, it would be even easier to not make any music at all...

Well said, along with the other three points you made. I happen to like Emancipation. I think it is a great force, but my liking it does not justify one way or the other whether or not Prince was trying too hard or not. I often cringe whenever Prince raps, and I don't like much rap, but is he trying to hard to be popular or is he just engaging another medium? I can understand when someone says they don't like something. But, I never understand when someone says Prince wasn't trying or this sounds uninspired, especially when I can hear the inspiration and passion in a song like "Colonized Mind," that many say falls flat and sounds uninspired.

Good point, there is not a direct correlation between something being "good" and the amount of effort that goes into it.

Sometimes great things are simple and inspired, sometimes they are complex and methodical

No, I don't think he was trying too hard. I found some of the production hackneyed -- a trend that has continued (fake sax on "Resolution," anyone?) in recent years.

If anything, I think Emancipation stands as a good explanation of Prince's strengths and weaknesses: A conceptual artist with amazing musical chops but who, without a good producer or label to rein in his whimsy, will darn-near ruin a project. Less/fewer would have been more here.

Still, I'm thankful for Style, The Love We Make (even with its ridiculous lyrics) and a few others. Would've been a great double album.

rialb said:

There's really no way for me to prove my opinion but for me the overall quality of the songs on Emancipation is much better than on For You.

Prince played Soft & Wet for nearly a decade (and would still be playing it if he wasn't a hypocrite). "For You" was part of the medley that was the intro tape to the Nude Tour gigs. By contrast, he couldn't be arsed to play 90% of Emancipation live. And the other songs didn't make it to a second tour.

BartVanHemelen said:

NouveauDance said:

Emancipation was much more polished and conventional R&B-pop.

It's Prince going for that R. Kelly money. And failing massively.

OMFG I actually agree with Bart!

p.s. I think Emancipation is a pretty good album. I like 70% of it. We Gets Up and Mr. Happy are his two worst songs EVER. Don't know what the fuck he wanted to do with those, but they seemed a little too forced. Dreamin About U and Joint 2 Joint are two of his best songs (at least of the 90's) and a lot of that album had some gems (Emale, My Computer, Curious Child). So it is a mix of mostly great music and a few feeble attempts. But the failures reek so badly of desperation that they really cloud the greats so much that it cheapens the album. It really should have been pared down to two discs. Could have been a classic.

i think some people are being too harsh on this album. Yes there are some terrible songs on here but the best stuff is amazing.

Emancipation is my favorite Prince album; but how would anybody know how hard he was trying? And why would that even matter? Why do people want Prince to release less music when everyone likes different songs of his? If he released less music, your favorite song might have never been released.

Less does not equal more. Less equals less. If prince had spent ten years working on an album, It'd probably still sound the same. Many artists put years of their life and tons of effort into an album only to still have it suck (Michael Jackson), or at least still have people think it sucked. I don't see the point. Just make your album - people like it or they don't - then move on. You can never please everyone.

The whole "quality vs. quantity" argument is nonsense. Remember that every album from Purple Rain-Lovesexy came one year (or less) apart. The reason for the supposed lack of quality in his music is all a matter of your personal taste in music. I love Emancipation, and I prefer Come-Gold-Chaos-Emancipation to the "classic period" of Purple Rain-Sign O The Times.

I'm not sure if I gave a satisfactory answer to your question, but those are my thoughts.

Spanky said:

We Gets Up and Mr. Happy are his two worst songs EVER.

I like 'We Gets Up', always have

Mr Happy is pathetic though.

I always imagine what In This Bed I Scream would sound like had Lisa & Wendy made their contribution.

And I still think that Lets Have A Baby displays one of his best moments behind the piano.

NouveauDance said:

Spanky said:

We Gets Up and Mr. Happy are his two worst songs EVER.

I like 'We Gets Up', always have

Mr Happy is pathetic though.

The beginning of 'We Gets Up' makes me want to hurt puppies.

I can't speak for everyone, so let me clarify what I mean by "trying too hard". Trying too hard was making it a big deal for years about wanting to be free from WB, then, when he got that freedom, he includes a picture with slave written on his face, calls the album Emancipation and then dumps 30 songs on us that were clearly an attempt to sound like everything else that was "cool and hip" at the moment (at least a great many of them were). Not exactly what you would expect from the guy at the moment he's free to do whatever he wants. This album was also a turning point, because other than TRC he's never fully gone back to the musically adventerous ways he exhibited previously. Everything has been shorter, pop oriented songs and straight R&B ballads (and lets not even get into the fact the Rave albums are what followed this).

IMO, he was trying WAY too hard to thumb his nose at the record industry at large by going, "nyaaa! see, I can do whatever I want!" I guess we'll never know if he was happy with the results, but I think its fair to say that its not most peoples favorite Prince album. This doesn't mean its a piece a crap - I actually like about ten songs quite a bit.

Anyway, just my two cents, and I think other people have basically said the exact same thing. The point is, I think, that were not trying to explain how he was trying to hard with the music (because I don't think he tried hard enough with a lot of it). What we're saying is that he was trying too hard to make some kind of point with the package, timing and quantity of music released, but he completely missed the target.

NDRU said: Gold sounds more like an "emancipation" though I am not a huge champion of that album. It does sound like a guy trying to break free. Maybe that is it, Gold is a guy trying to break free and Emancipation is a guy who is free?

Dig it.

Bart said: It's Prince going for that R. Kelly money. And failing massively.

Dig it again.

Tittypants said:

Yeah it does show on a song like Savior, where there is a real band playing. It really jumps out as dynamic compared even to more uptempo tunes on the record

So what did you expect? And isn't that exactly the point, that he can do whatever he wants?

You're right, we won't (unless we ask him). Still, I think it's fair to assume that he was, at least at the time. I mean, why would he put out the album otherwise? He didn't have to.

Well, that can only be said if we actually know what the target was. If we don't, it's just speculation.

erik319 said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Emancipation is the album that Prince was born 2 make. It went double platinum & made him millions. It must have made Mayte proud, 2 b his first wife & mother of his first child & have a whole cd dedicated 2 her, during this period of celebrating his exit from the WB .

But destiny had other plans, Which Larry helped him through by introducing him 2 Jehovah & being instrumental in putting Prince finally @ peace with himself & his past life. .

[img:$uid]http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL2084/9118410/23710928/395436822.jpg[/img:$uid]

my thoughts exactly

erik319 said:

NouveauDance said:

I like 'We Gets Up', always have

Mr Happy is pathetic though.

The beginning of 'We Gets Up' makes me want to hurt puppies.

Watch it, I like "We Gets Up." If you are not careful I will be comin' to wreck shop in your neighborhood.

rialb said:

erik319 said:

The beginning of 'We Gets Up' makes me want to hurt puppies.

Watch it, I like "We Gets Up." If you are not careful I will be comin' to wreck shop in your neighborhood.

Come near me with that damn song and the only shop getting wrecked is the pet shop full of puppies!

erik319 said:

rialb said:

Watch it, I like "We Gets Up." If you are not careful I will be comin' to wreck shop in your neighborhood.

Come near me with that damn song and the only shop getting wrecked is the pet shop full of puppies!

For the sake of the continued well being of the puppies I shall agree to enjoy "We Gets Up" exclusively in the privacy of my home and always on headphones.

That person, whoever it was, on the beginning of We Gets Up is annoying, but the song is pretty good by the end

How many songs is that true of for prince? Terrible beginnings, great endings?

NDRU said:

Emancipation has the highest number of P songs that I HATE

There are a lot of songs of P that I don't like/don't care for, but those Emancipation's songs are different, I just hate 'em, I despise them, they irritate me, they make me wonder why I'm a fan to begin with...

JoeTyler said:

Emancipation has the highest number of P songs that I HATE

There are a lot of songs of P that I don't like/don't care for, but those Emancipation's songs are different, I just hate 'em, I despise them, they irritate me, they make me wonder why I'm a fan to begin with...

Well, on one level that makes sense since it has the most songs of any of his albums. It's logical that the more songs there are the greater the chances you will find one you don't like.

I'd be curious to know which ones you find to be the biggest offenders. I've got a feeling they are probably the ones that I like the best.

IstenSzek said:

NDRU said:

That person, whoever it was, on the beginning of We Gets Up is annoying, but the song is pretty good by the end

How many songs is that true of for prince? Terrible beginnings, great endings?

I was listening to that song last week, hadn't heard it in seven years, i think. And i was struck by hiw much i liked the second half. I was wondering if that's the purpleaxxe he's using to make that noise that sounds halfway between a keyboard and some weird guitar/trumpet hybrid. Love that sound. Which got me wondering how many emancipation songs did he use the purpleaxxe on? It's on Get Yo Groove On too iirc.

1. courtin time

2. sex in the summer

3. the love we make

4. dreamin about u

5. emale

6. somebody's somebody

7. soul sanctuary

8. jam of the year

9. joint to joint

10. friend, lover

totally over indulgent, the above single disc version above would have been a great sassy, cool contempary album, which is what i wanted from a 38 yr old man. this would have left 26 so-so tracks in the vault, just like the good old days.

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

Emancipation has the highest number of P songs that I HATE

There are a lot of songs of P that I don't like/don't care for, but those Emancipation's songs are different, I just hate 'em, I despise them, they irritate me, they make me wonder why I'm a fan to begin with...

Well, on one level that makes sense since it has the most songs of any of his albums. It's logical that the more songs there are the greater the chances you will find one you don't like.

I'd be curious to know which ones you find to be the biggest offenders. I've got a feeling they are probably the ones that I like the best.

Disc One: RBHIMA, Getcha By...ah, nevermind, We Gets Up, Courtin' Time, Damned if I Do

Disc Two: the whole album. except: Sex in the Summer, and the intro of Let's Have a Baby...

Disc Three: the whole album, except: Emancipation

so that's basically:

Jam of the Year

Get Yo Groove On

Somebody's Somebody

In This Bed I Scream

Sex in the Summer

Emancipation

not even a 9 songs album. So, For You wins!

[Edited 6/22/11 14:06pm]

Tittypants said:

I also think 'Emancipation' lacked in every other genre besides R&B pop music. I think I was more used to Prince giving a bit more variety then he did on with 'Emancipation'. 95% of that album is R&B....

That is why most of Prince fans don't like "Emancipation". Anytime Prince embraces his RnB side in his albums, the so called fans tear it apart. Like they did with his masterpiece album 20TEN.....They rather him rock it out all the time on his lead guitar. Then embrace his true roots RnB.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Tittypants said:

I also think 'Emancipation' lacked in every other genre besides R&B pop music. I think I was more used to Prince giving a bit more variety then he did on with 'Emancipation'. 95% of that album is R&B....

That is why most of Prince fans don't like "Emancipation". Anytime Prince embraces his RnB side in his albums, the so called fans tear it apart. Like they did with his masterpiece album 20TEN.....They rather him rock it out all the time on his lead guitar. Then embrace his true roots RnB.

why do they say "RnB" when, in fact, it's just "R.Kelly copycat"??

when I think of Prince doing real RnB I think of For You, The Truth (which I don't care for), Gotta Borken Heart Again, How Come U Don't Call Me, etc. but not the soulless, plastic copycat of Emancipation...

and 20TEN RnB???? perhaps the ballads, but that's all...

JoeTyler said:

rialb said:

Well, on one level that makes sense since it has the most songs of any of his albums. It's logical that the more songs there are the greater the chances you will find one you don't like.

I'd be curious to know which ones you find to be the biggest offenders. I've got a feeling they are probably the ones that I like the best.

Disc One: RBHIMA, Getcha By...ah, nevermind, We Gets Up, Courtin' Time, Damned if I Do

Disc Two: the whole album. except: Sex in the Summer, and the intro of Let's Have a Baby...

Disc Three: the whole album, except: Emancipation

so that's basically:

Jam of the Year

Get Yo Groove On

Somebody's Somebody

In This Bed I Scream

Sex in the Summer

Emancipation

not even a 9 songs album. So, For You wins!

[Edited 6/22/11 14:06pm]

I could take or leave the covers although I do rather like "One of Us" but as I suspected you and I do not see eye to eye.

What about "White Mansion?"

I honestly love all three discs and have no trouble listening to them all without skipping any tracks. Even tracks that seem to be universally hated ("We Gets Up" and "Mr. Happy") have some redeeming features that I quite enjoy.

I have to ask, when was the last time that you gave the set a listen? I really find it hard to believe that you can't find nine songs on the three discs that are as good or better than For You.