"All these am I. Herbs of healing and food. The Mantrum. The clarified butter. ..." - John Coltrane / OM

OK, maybe Prince isn't alone in the historical scheme of things.

m3taverse said:

If you could find the time to make a simple transcipt for us that would be cool. Thanks

Prince makes many references to the JWs believe..but he isnt a JW; he says in Anna Stesia (ona live); we should cherish our similarities..and come together on a higher ground...he doesnt say: he you all should believe my church.A JW would never say that.

101 said:

I've often thought this myself - just because he studies The New World Translation does not mean he is a JW, although, of course, he may be (as far as I know). But he often has made statements such as you describe from Anna Stesia. He seems to be trying to get people to take a look at what's common to us all and I can't see that as anything but positive. He also, obviously, has studied many other religious resources.

I've been in various Bible study groups - through churches and places of employment. The ones at work were groups of people of different religions coming together to study the Word of God, our common ground. We didn't get into debating or demeaning each others religions; we focused on reading, studying, & discussing the Word so we would all learn more.

Popcorn said:

Relax Popcorn, i have not said anything about Prince in this thread except for that i think P is a Jehova's Witness.
People should believe what ever they're comfortable with, that includes Prince.
I hold no judgement over any religion, although it may have appeared so when i tried to make my point about religion and science making for a poor mix.

edited for minor elaboration, no original text removed
[This message was edited Wed Feb 12 12:45:37 PST 2003 by m3taverse]
[This message was edited Wed Feb 12 13:34:49 PST 2003 by m3taverse]

m3taverse said

Whatever anyone says is open to as many interpretations as there are listeners, ...

Good Point
___
... but to state that nothing has proved P is Jehova to me seems strange.

No one can prove someone else's religious status - the person him/herself would have to come straight out and say, "I am a member of this religious following."
___
He tells us specifically which version/translation of the bible to read (The New Translation), he refers to specific passages in the bible (ones that are specifically singled out in many Jehovah writings) and in general preaches their doctrine (theocratic order etc.) ...

Agreed, Except theocratic order is plainly the doctrine of many religions - see Timothy in various versions of the Bible where the wife being in submission to the husband and the husband in submission to God is described.

101 said:

Why do you think a JW would never say that?
As i understand it, it's on that "higher ground", the place where we all live in "harmony", the place where we all "follow" and not "lead", that we will learn "The Truth". And in my mind P's version of The Truth is not something that is ambivalent to him, or open to any flexibility even.
People who were at the listening sessions where P joined in at Celebration 2001 know how closed P's view of The Truth really is. "Ain't no room to disagree" seems to be the accurate description.
Also i'd like to point out that P took a King James version bible from his hotel room to the ONA Dublin aftershow he did, and compared it on stage to his New World Translation version ... making it very clear which one was right and which one was wrong. And i don't mean wrong as in "could be better", or "not as good" ... no, just plain flat-out *wrong*.

Now, that might not mean he is a JW, but if he's not, he's certainly the next best thing.

edited for typos (i actually spotted)
[This message was edited Wed Feb 12 13:05:50 PST 2003 by m3taverse]

HolyWine said:

sorry about that HolyWine ... where i'm from we have an expression for statements such as i made here, it goes something like this : it's like kicking in a door that was already open



Agreed, and i'm not really trying to proof that P is a JW. I just don't agree with klaatu's original statement that "there is no proof". Tried in front of a jury, the defense would have a hard time trying to convince them P is not a JW, given the evidence.



agreed, bad example
[This message was edited Wed Feb 12 13:16:24 PST 2003 by m3taverse]

lovebird said:[quote]
JWs donot believe in organ transplants.

***

Whether a Jehovah's Witness accepts an organ transplant or not is a personal decision.

The ONLY medical treatment Jehovah's Witnesses avoid is blood.

Delo

the cow killer

Mr7 said:

And as i understand it, Watchtower is even relaxing that rule a little now. Or at least getting more precise about exactly what component of blood is undesirable.

Shorty said:

Thank you for the kind words. I am also happy your father is here with you and your family.

lovebird said:

pimpytheclown said:

101 -
I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I agree that "we should cherish our similarities and meet together on a higher ground"

Also - for the person who had open heart surgery - did you know that many surgeons now prefer to perform this type of surgery WITHOUT blood? Doctors say that recovery is faster and risk of infections and blood type complications is eliminated.

Some here may also be interested to know that there are many safe blood alternatives available for both surgery and emergencies. There are also hospitals devoted to bloodless medicine who are not affiliated with Jehovah's Witnesses.

Similarities?

Also - for the person who mentioned the girl in Canada who died after not accepting blood - please remember that a person can still die after receiving blood! A blood transfusion is no guarantee that a person will live.
Furthermore, many people die everyday from receiving tainted or wrong blood.

I'm stating these facts to find "similarities" that we can agree on and thus "meet on a higher ground"...

fairlite said:

Thank you too!

lovebird said:

This is not true.

m3taverse said:[quote]RiccoTheArtist said:[quote]Dead Blood kills Interferons...


Actually it is quite soundly based in science...

http://www.med.unipi.it/p...dl/bmr.htm


Even the military is looking into blood alternatives.

FreeChild said "Actually it is quite soundly based in science...

http://www.med.unipi.it/p...dl/bmr.htm


Even the military is looking into blood alternatives."

Agreed, BUT there is still no evidence that shows that "dead blood kills interferons" - I asked earlier in the thread - where is he getting this information? Can anyone else support this claim?

Interferons are produced naturally in response to infections - how is it that eating meat inhibits this process? If its to do with transfusions, again, how does this affect interferon production?

FreeChild - you also say that JWs do agree with organ transplants. This is true NOW, but has only been the truth for about a decade. Prior to that, the TRUTH was that having an organ transplant was tantamount to cannabilism!

I quote,

The Watchtower of 11/15/72 Questions from readers states:

QUESTION: "Is there any Scriptural objection to donating one's body for use in
medical research or to accepting organs for
transplant from such a source?-W. L., U.S.A. "

ANSWER: "...Those who submit to such operations are thus living off the flesh of another human. That is cannibalistic. However, in allowing man to eat animal flesh Jehovah God did not grant permission for humans to try to perpetuate their lives by cannibalistically taking into their bodies human flesh, whether chewed
or in the form of whole organs or body parts taken from others."

How is it that the "truth" changes? Surely the truth is, according to the Chambers Dictionary "the quality or state of being true, genuine or factual."?

Mindflux,

You asked, "How is it that the "truth" changes? Surely the truth is, according to the Chambers Dictionary "the quality or state of being true, genuine or factual."?

The truth is that "truth" doesn't change - the only thing that changes is our ability to comprehend it.

I'm sure you know that at one time Jehovah's Witnesses celebrated Christmas, smoked, went to war and wore crucifixes!
All of that has changed, not because "truth" has changed, but rather because our understanding of truth has changed (has become "brighter: or more clear) with time and continual searching/studying of the scriptures.
This BTW goes right along with what the Jewish prophet Daniel foretold in Chapter 12 and what Proverb 4:18 states, "But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter unitl the day is firmly established"

So - please don't give up on "truth" just because of our limited human ability to understand everything fully right now.
Remember, Jesus said, "Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find, keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you" (Matthew 7:7)
So, the important thing seems to be to make an effort to search for truth, wouldn't you agree?
P.S. As far as I know there is nothing in the Watchtower or Awake about the "interferon" thing - but as we all know, Prince does a lot of reading, so perhaps that would be a good question for him at the next soundcheck or possible upcoming discussions...

Paradise4evr - I hear what you are saying and I agree that comprehension of the truth is what changes. However, by applying the same logic, it is entirely possible that everything you understand now is wrong - would you agree? I'm not saying that it is, just that it must be a possibility.

Let's take the organ transplant issue as an example. For years and years this practice was denounced (you've seen the quote), but understanding of what the bible teaches on this issue changed and it is now a "personal decision" for people to make without consequence. Unfortunately, such a mis-interpretation (if that is what it was - perhaps the original understanding was correct?) has definitely cost lives.

The point being, if mis-understandings can be as serious as this, to the point of costing the lives of your fellows, how does this affect your faith in what is being taught? And, if you are prepared to accept that your advisors can make mistakes, then how do you know that anything you are being taught is the truth?

the JW are really toasting his brain!

i say we should attack them in the middle of the night 2 the sound of p control in high heels and silky underwear...

anyone wit me?!

I'm back, miss me?

I didn't think this would come to this but some things are worth fighting for!


Anyway you nay sayers who believe your meats are fine and the blood of these animals don't kill Interferons (which is nothing more than your immune system) Ha Ha, they do more than that...got some things for ya' to read, and remember boys and girls read between the lines OK as you read these things use yo mind, put yourself in some of the stories,(because you are) something else to consider Meat eaters hold your stomachs this stuff is not for the weak! Chemicals used in animal feed (they grow animals from infant to mature in a matter of days with chemicals ever wonder what side affects there are for you) is there-for left in the blood of the animal which goes thru-out the body of the animal and is neatly packed at your local grocery store waiting for you!

http://www.uwm.edu/~nelso...nerdy.html


http://www.steps2life.org...cle_id=548

http://www.consumersunion...biotic.htm

http://perdurabo10.tripod...id137.html

http://arcticwebdesigns.c...search.htm

http://members.shaw.ca/ey...alfood.htm


not saying that Veges are better the Chemicals used on them for growth are no better!
but there are natural ways of getting our food "grow it yourself" Prince talks about that too, but that will be our next class assignment, class dismissed...

I no probs with him being JW but it is killing everything I know him to be slowly

thecloud9mission said:

I like the new site!

RiccoTheArtist said:

Cheers dude

This is all very well but if we are being accurate and analysing everything in the smallest detail. You cannot "kill" an interferon, poetic licence?