Bewdy said:

ufoclub said:

Meaning you think he did or didn't play the drums on Irrisistible Bitch?

I thought he played irresistable bitch / bacon skin, but I could be wrong? Personally I think the drumming on that is pretty funky. I personally have no major gripe with Prince being a talented multi musician. I just cant get on board with people who overstate his abilities. And 40+ instrument hype didn't help.

most people here do not believe that he plays 40 plus instruments. Those are just variations of different instruments, like acoustic and electric guitar, acoustic/electric drums and so on. He plays four major instruments and he plays them well. I agree that the 40 instruments thing is silly and simply not true. Even if it were true, who needs to play 40 different instruments to compose good music? Most posters on this thread agree that the 40 plus instrument is not true.

TrevorAyer said:

drums .. prince needs a click track ..

Might need one, but doesn't use one. Oh, when he starts recording a song, he starts by playing the drums. And then they don't get edited (well, not in the 1980s). The first half of Parade: the engineer started the tape and Prince layed down the drums in one go. No clicktrack. No edits. No retake. No stopping. That is ONE take, the first one. No demo playing in his ears. He simply had all of the songs in his head.

he does not keep perfect time without it .. he used to play along with his drum machine .. which is the same as a click track ..

Bullshit. Talk to his engineers. Hell, they'll tell you about how Prince does the breaks in the drum tracks from his drum machine (almost) live.

joyinrepetition said:

Imaginative said:

I remember hearing throughout the 80's things like, "Prince can play 40 instruments!" However, having seen him numerous times in concert and listened to virtually all of the records, and countless live bootlegs, I can safely say I have only heard or seen him play four instruments; guitar, bass, piano and percussion. Out of these four, his is virtuoso on one (guitar), very good at another, but in only one particular style (funk on electric bass), and adequate on the remaining two, piano and percussion (although he is an excellent drum programmer).

Prince is fantastic and I love his music (why do I feel I always need to say that around here?), but his greatest strengths are as a guitarist, composer/arranger and of course, as a live act. Playing four instruments--in particular, those four--is not really such a rarity in pop/rock music. I can name several artists who are even virtuoso in more than one area (i.e. Stevie Wonder on piano, Clavinova, harmonica, and vocals. Also an excellent drummer).

So where is this multi-instrumentalist everyone talks about? I want to hear Prince wail on a trumpet solo, or play a wicked violin part!

[Edited 6/12/11 19:32pm]

Obviously you haven't listen to Prince's drumming on his first two albums. His live drumming is incredible. He is a great drummer, one of the best guitarist, a great pianist and a nasty ass bass player. You really need to search out video that's out there that shows Prince more than adequately ripping shit up on all instruments.

God ppl what about Madhouse 8 & 16??? Fantastic drumming! Sexual Suicide??

He can play about as many instruments as is in his synths sample bank. That's what they meant by 40 instruments.

As a musician he's developed signature sounds that would have made him a standout player if he had just been a bass player, drummer, guitarist, in a band.

As a guitar player, he's actually improved and gained recognition as one of the greatest just in the last 5 years. It's almost scary.

Bewdy said:

ufoclub said:

Meaning you think he did or didn't play the drums on Irrisistible Bitch?

I thought he played irresistable bitch / bacon skin, but I could be wrong? Personally I think the drumming on that is pretty funky. I personally have no major gripe with Prince being a talented multi musician. I just cant get on board with people who overstate his abilities. And 40+ instrument hype didn't help.

He did play drums on "Bitch", but it's Morris Day on drums on "Bacon". I just didn't know what you meant by that sentence, it was confusing!

Still didnt understand why bringing Dylan or Beatles to this topic. Isnt it about his skills as instrumentalist?

GustavoRibas said:

"Several things made P.N. a success: timing, song writing, musicianship,and flat out ego.

Prince always had a strong hook and very rock oriented rhythms. He was an extremely good pocket drummer, fair keyboard player and lets just say, guitar player. Actually drums were his best inst IMO. I know one of his influences was Hendrix. I remember him making excuses for his guitar playing before he pulled out his strat and began overdubbing but the arrangement was good enough and it worked ok. It is true he would be one that would be hard, if not impossible to duplicate."

Gary Brandt
Engineer/Producer
Website: http://www.earthislandrecords.com/splash.html

Take out some of the name calling and the

content of this thread is pretty damn informative.

Thanks!

rudedog said:

joyinrepetition said:

Obviously you haven't listen to Prince's drumming on his first two albums. His live drumming is incredible. He is a great drummer, one of the best guitarist, a great pianist and a nasty ass bass player. You really need to search out video that's out there that shows Prince more than adequately ripping shit up on all instruments.

God ppl what about Madhouse 8 & 16??? Fantastic drumming! Sexual Suicide??

Madhouse 8 yes, his drumming on that album is (in my non musician opinion) very good. 16 used more drum machine really, and 3 tracks also had Sheila E on drums.

TrevorAyer said:

drums .. prince needs a click track .. he does not keep perfect time without it .. he used to play along with his drum machine .. which is the same as a click track .. see irresistable bitch, lady cab driver .. most people who dabble in drums can pull off a decent funky take like prince but also like prince .. cannot play at that level for a 3 hour live show .. and thats the difference between real drummers and those who dabble like prince .. heck even kurt cobain sat behind the drums every once in a while .. dave groll plays drums bass and guitar ... stevie plays keys drums and i've seen studio picks with him on bass as well .. trent reznor classically trained keys . guitar drums bass .. paul mccartney plays all ..

so someone mentioned that terence trent couldn't hang with prince and i'll remind you that questlove tried jamming with prince and apparantly couldn't hang either .. questlove is one of the top drummers on the planet right now .. soo hmmm maybe its prince that can't hang

Questlove and D'Angelo couldn't "hang" that night because Prince was in a bitchy mood and wasn't playing aznything they knew. Contrary to what non-musicians think, you can't just sit down and play a piece of music you've never heard before. Also IDIOT, Pricne and Questlove didn't ave a drum duel. Questlove played drums that night and D'Angelo dicked around on the keys. No "hanging" just meant they didn't know the music Prince was pooping out and he wasn't in a talking mood apparently.

Prince can't touch Questlove on the drums. Period. Who cares, anyway? It's not a competition.

Several musicians that beat Princes ass as players say that Prince isn't really a super-gifted player, but his ideas and force of will allow him to play really cool shit and make his limitations sound like strenghts. Being creative has NOTHING to do with being an awesome player. Miles Davis couldn't play HALF of what guys like Dizzy Gillespie could play, but he changed jazz several times over and most people would rather put on a Miles record over just about any other trumpet player.

Prince WAS a good pocket drummer. When he bothers to play real drums on albums these days he has barely been up to the job.

steakfinger said:

Questlove and D'Angelo couldn't "hang" that night because Prince was in a bitchy mood and wasn't playing aznything they knew. Contrary to what non-musicians think, you can't just sit down and play a piece of music you've never heard before. Also IDIOT, Pricne and Questlove didn't ave a drum duel. Questlove played drums that night and D'Angelo dicked around on the keys. No "hanging" just meant they didn't know the music Prince was pooping out and he wasn't in a talking mood apparently.

Prince can't touch Questlove on the drums. Period. Who cares, anyway? It's not a competition.

Several musicians that beat Princes ass as players say that Prince isn't really a super-gifted player, but his ideas and force of will allow him to play really cool shit and make his limitations sound like strenghts. Being creative has NOTHING to do with being an awesome player. Miles Davis couldn't play HALF of what guys like Dizzy Gillespie could play, but he changed jazz several times over and most people would rather put on a Miles record over just about any other trumpet player.

Prince WAS a good pocket drummer. When he bothers to play real drums on albums these days he has barely been up to the job.

- When was that jam? Only curious.

Like I said before, Prince is very good at what he does, but of course there are specialists who are better than him. It wouldnt be human to play bass like Jaco, guitar like Benson, keys like Herbie and drums like Dennis Chambers (to name a few) AND sing, produce, arrange, etc. These guys dedicated ALL the time to ONE instrument.

But Prince´s skills owe nothing to most legends of classic rock/funk, with the difference that these guys were the architects on playing their instrument.

I consider Prince´s drumming very good on tracks like Cybersingle, Glass Cutter and Musicology, to name a few. Not something out of this world, but very good.

[Edited 6/14/11 13:07pm]

GustavoRibas said:

steakfinger said:

Questlove and D'Angelo couldn't "hang" that night because Prince was in a bitchy mood and wasn't playing aznything they knew. Contrary to what non-musicians think, you can't just sit down and play a piece of music you've never heard before. Also IDIOT, Pricne and Questlove didn't ave a drum duel. Questlove played drums that night and D'Angelo dicked around on the keys. No "hanging" just meant they didn't know the music Prince was pooping out and he wasn't in a talking mood apparently.

Prince can't touch Questlove on the drums. Period. Who cares, anyway? It's not a competition.

Several musicians that beat Princes ass as players say that Prince isn't really a super-gifted player, but his ideas and force of will allow him to play really cool shit and make his limitations sound like strenghts. Being creative has NOTHING to do with being an awesome player. Miles Davis couldn't play HALF of what guys like Dizzy Gillespie could play, but he changed jazz several times over and most people would rather put on a Miles record over just about any other trumpet player.

Prince WAS a good pocket drummer. When he bothers to play real drums on albums these days he has barely been up to the job.

- When was that jam? Only curious.

[Edited 6/14/11 13:07pm]

It was on 16th August (am) 2000, at Paisley Park.

joyinrepetition said:

The bottom line is Prince is far better than average on ANY instrument that he picks up. Give credit where credit is due. Prince is an outstanding musician, songwriter and performer. He works hard at it, it's his life. Ever wonder why he's divorced? Prince cheats on his "real wife", Music, I think her name is.

That says it...IMHO Prince is just a bad MF'r any way you slice it. He may not be among the greatest at any of his main instruments, but I dare anyone to come up with ANY artist in the pop/rock era (sorry can't count ur cousin who plays the s**t outta all the instruments at church -- until HE writes and records 1000+ amazing songs, most all of them unique and many sonically innovative - - he's justa urban legend) that can touch his versatility and accomplishment at the main instruments of modern pop music: keys, bass, drums, vocals and guitar. There've been many, many -- too many to name - - solid mulitinstrumentalists (a few who I haven't seen mentioned but probably wipe most all of the others mentioned save PM and JPJ are Shuggie Otis, Sly Stone and Steve Winwood). But for my ears Prince does what he does better than ALL of them. Yeah, Stevie can write better and just as many/more songs, plays a higher level of keys/piano, is probably a bit better a drummer and was/is a more accomplished vocalist but...but...well OK no buts with Stevie - he's baaaaaad!! But put Stevie aside and who can f**k with Prince?? Not worth arguing whether he's a great anything, the whole is mindblowing. And IMHO if he'd been born with a face only radio cold love he still coulda had an amazing career as a musician/producer in virtually any era.

Prince ain't Coltrane, he ain't Miles, he ain't Mozart, he damn sure ain't Bird, no he can't f**k with Hendrix but they ain't him neither. Prince is an american original, a product of his times and an unquestionable legend within that context.

Oh, and I don't have any inside info about P recording drums against a click, but I can think off the top of my head of a few recordings that make me wonder about his time (I think his sense of time is amaaazing overall) as a drummer on some days (I suspect P just sits down and plays and even back in the day when he was recording all the time I bet there were long stretches where his drum chops weren't up but he still wanted/needed to lay a track): God (instr), Another Lonely Christmas, The Cross, Walking In Sand.

Last thing: Prince is an amazing, innovative R&B rhythm guitarist, the best of his generation BY FAR, IMHO. His generation doesn't include Curtis Mayfield, Jimi Hendrix, Phil Upchurch, Roger Troutman (he was several yrs older), or paul jackson, jr. so I place Prince alongside them n the pantheon of all time great rhymthm guitarists whose playing defined the style.

steakfinger said:

Prince can't touch Questlove on the drums.

Graycap23 said:

steakfinger said:

Prince can't touch Questlove on the drums.

NDRU said:

Graycap23 said:

If Prince asked to touch me "on the drums" I would say no, too.

Prince don't even wanna TOUCH ?uestlove's Fro. Who knows where that mothafucka's been?!

jilljones said:

Prince ain't Coltrane, he ain't Miles, he ain't Mozart, he damn sure ain't Bird, no he can't f**k with Hendrix but they ain't him neither. Prince is an american original, a product of his times and an unquestionable legend within that context.

- Agree

No disrespect to Questlove who is encyclopedic in knowledge, and knows beats like few others... but what classic beats has he composed?

It's one thing to be great technically, or a good mimic, an another thing to be a born drummer writing instantly recognizable funky hits. I mean, When Doves Cry? That beat shouldn't even work at all.

funksterr said:

hhhhdmt said:

based on what? Obviously he isnt the best at any instrument but this is a silly statement.

Prince isn't nearly as musically knowledgeable or as skilled with instruments as he and his various publicists have led us to believe. That's all.

I loooove Prince as a musician and instrumentalist!!! I admire his musicality more than his technical ability....

I do think some fans overstate Prince's ability. I was on a Bass Forum a while back, and some P fans were declaring that P is a better bass player than Rhonda Smith. I stayed out of it (like I probably should be doing now, lol)... but, I thought that was ridiculous. How could Prince be a better bass player than someone who has devoted their entire life to focusing on just the Bass?

I think that's a thing amongst some Prince fans, and I don't fault anybody. I've heard for years and years that Prince was a master on several instruments. Sometimes if you hear it enough you start to believe it and it becomes a common belief.

I think Prince is really good and naturally talented--- I can't picture him with a book and a metronome doing technical exercises for 8 hours a day. He's just a good, naturally gifted player on several instruments (like McCartney...try playing Martha My Dear or Lady Madonna on piano). I think Prince is the type where if you put him in a room with a new instrument, by the end of the day he'll have gotten the basics down to the point where he could come up with a cool tune. But, you can't compare that to someone who woodsheds, goes to music schools, studies the theory, and concentrates solely on those instruments that Prince is supposed to be at such a 'high level'.

But, you know what? I don't care. I'm a fan of what he does and I think he would be an MVP in anybody's Pop/Funk/Rock band. The technical virtuoso monster isn't always the guy you want anyway.

No hate or jealousy.

funksterr said:

Prince isn't nearly as musically knowledgeable or as skilled with instruments as he and his various publicists have led us to believe. That's all.

Lol.............complete NONSENSE.

funskeer's post is ofcouse complete nonsense. No way in hell is Prince a 5/10 on guitar. He isnt as good on guitar as hendrix, srv, or beck but he is still excellent. And funksteer fails to prove any evidence for such an absurd claim that prince isnt nearly as good as his publicists say. Then again this is coming from a guy who thinks sign of the times was a commercial failiure.

gemari77 said:

funksterr said:

Prince isn't nearly as musically knowledgeable or as skilled with instruments as he and his various publicists have led us to believe. That's all.

I loooove Prince as a musician and instrumentalist!!! I admire his musicality more than his technical ability....

I do think some fans overstate Prince's ability. I was on a Bass Forum a while back, and some P fans were declaring that P is a better bass player than Rhonda Smith. I stayed out of it (like I probably should be doing now, lol)... but, I thought that was ridiculous. How could Prince be a better bass player than someone who has devoted their entire life to focusing on just the Bass?

I think that's a thing amongst some Prince fans, and I don't fault anybody. I've heard for years and years that Prince was a master on several instruments. Sometimes if you hear it enough you start to believe it and it becomes a common belief.

I think Prince is really good and naturally talented--- I can't picture him with a book and a metronome doing technical exercises for 8 hours a day. He's just a good, naturally gifted player on several instruments (like McCartney...try playing Martha My Dear or Lady Madonna on piano). I think Prince is the type where if you put him in a room with a new instrument, by the end of the day he'll have gotten the basics down to the point where he could come up with a cool tune. But, you can't compare that to someone who woodsheds, goes to music schools, studies the theory, and concentrates solely on those instruments that Prince is supposed to be at such a 'high level'.

But, you know what? I don't care. I'm a fan of what he does and I think he would be an MVP in anybody's Pop/Funk/Rock band. The technical virtuoso monster isn't always the guy you want anyway.

No hate or jealousy.

- TOTALLY AGREE! That sums up my viewing of this thread...lol

i really don't think there is all this hate or jealousy .. there are fans that just want to gush over prince and there are other fans who really like disecting his work and career and bouncing around ideas .. especially if ur a musician, of course you will want an honest discussion because its kinda like taking a phd level college course .. the fact remains that with hard work and dedication most people could achieve a phd, but there are those who go above and beyond .. in the business world they might be an exceptional lawyer or surgeon, even tho many can achieve that skill, some have that "it" factor in certain areas and others don't, that puts them over the top in their career .. there is nothing wrong with exchanging ideas on what prince did or did not bring to the table .. it doesn't make u a hater .. probably its actually a greater show of respect than that of those who just love everything a guy like prince does .. i've read a few mentions of prince bass being better than guitar and the fact is i agree .. i think he is naturally talented on keys and guitar and voice but if there is something prince actually "woodsheds" or just picks up out of his pure love of playing the instrument i would guess it to be bass and drums .. and because of it he is more naturally talented and creative on those instruments .. i would guess that he studies guitar and piano and tries intentionally to improve his skills but i don't think he just plain 'gets off' on playing them as much as he does with the bass and drums .. and at prince skill level and constant practice at all the instruments while recording his thousands of songs by himself, he can be highly skilled at something like bass without really trying or woodshedding .. and in that reality i wouldn't doubt that prince could give rhonda a run for her money on bass skill .. check out "whats my name?" .. when musicians get to the level of rhonda and prince the only distinguishing character left by which to judge is the creative "it" factor .. and in that sense prince may very well have rhonda beat

gemari77 said:

funksterr said:

Prince isn't nearly as musically knowledgeable or as skilled with instruments as he and his various publicists have led us to believe. That's all.

I loooove Prince as a musician and instrumentalist!!! I admire his musicality more than his technical ability....

I do think some fans overstate Prince's ability. I was on a Bass Forum a while back, and some P fans were declaring that P is a better bass player than Rhonda Smith. I stayed out of it (like I probably should be doing now, lol)... but, I thought that was ridiculous. How could Prince be a better bass player than someone who has devoted their entire life to focusing on just the Bass?

I think that's a thing amongst some Prince fans, and I don't fault anybody. I've heard for years and years that Prince was a master on several instruments. Sometimes if you hear it enough you start to believe it and it becomes a common belief.

I think Prince is really good and naturally talented--- I can't picture him with a book and a metronome doing technical exercises for 8 hours a day. He's just a good, naturally gifted player on several instruments (like McCartney...try playing Martha My Dear or Lady Madonna on piano). I think Prince is the type where if you put him in a room with a new instrument, by the end of the day he'll have gotten the basics down to the point where he could come up with a cool tune. But, you can't compare that to someone who woodsheds, goes to music schools, studies the theory, and concentrates solely on those instruments that Prince is supposed to be at such a 'high level'.

But, you know what? I don't care. I'm a fan of what he does and I think he would be an MVP in anybody's Pop/Funk/Rock band. The technical virtuoso monster isn't always the guy you want anyway.

No hate or jealousy.

Right.

Lets look at it like this, we all know that Prince is an exceptional musician.

Someone said "how can Prince be better than Rhonda Smith at bass?" since she's studied all her life.

Well, it's like this, I consider myself a very good basketball player. I could go to camps and work on my game everyday, yet will I be better than Michael Jordan, NOPE!

Some people are just naturally gifted where they have all the talents and more of those who work hard at it for all their lives. Prince is one of those people. He has gifts that just defy the norm.

I think Prince is better than Jimi, who I think is overrated. Jimi brought about a new sound and style that noone heard before in his era. Now there are many players that I feel are better than Jimi. Jimi is the Father of Distorted Rock Guitar, but like most children, the players of late 70's to now, have exceeded the "Father" in skill as the guitarist have improved on what Jimi started.

One day, in the distant future, someone is going to heralded like Prince. Prince is a one of a kind artist. Prince is like the child of James Brown, Little Richard, Jimi Hendrix all wrapped up. He's a musician, songwriter, performer, and had a stlye all his own. Like Prince said, "There will never be another like me"!

joyinrepetition said:

Someone said "how can Prince be better than Rhonda Smith at bass?" since she's studied all her life.

Well, it's like this, I consider myself a very good basketball player. I could go to camps and work on my game everyday, yet will I be better than Michael Jordan, NOPE!

But Jordan played his whole life too

This point is about specialization

Jordan did not have the free throw percentage of Steve Kerr, or as many rebounds per game as Dennis Rodman. But he is an all around better player than both of them, and a better scorer than anyone.

Prince is like a scorer (frontman, performer), and a great all around player like Jordan.

Rhonda is like a role-player.

Jordan and Prince could have been Rhondas or Kerrs, too, but they specialized in their leadership roles that required them to be more of all around players. Because they also happen to be the all time greats, they also happen to be great at certain specific roles. But they are not the very best at all of them.

[Edited 6/15/11 17:41pm]

Imaginative said:

NDRU: Apologies if I accidentally confused you with the statements made by "Militant." You clearly know your stuff, where Militant (ironic name) is more comfortable making judgements about music he's admittedly never really listened to. I'm fine letting this thread die, and never intended it to be a Prince vs. Beatles vs. Dylan thing. Militant kind of turned into that with his idiotic statement that Prince has written more great songs than any singular living artist. His statement went from idiotic to moronic when he himself admitted to never really listening to either The Beatles or Dylan. (There is a difference between hearing and listening.) [Edited 6/13/11 21:06pm]

Excuse me? I never said either of those things. I think that was Gray or someone else. I'm EXTREMELY familiar with both The Beatles and Dylan. And yes, I still believe, song-for-song, Prince has more great songs. So I'm not making blanket judgements on stuff I don't know. You're mixing up different statements from different people who just all happen to prefer Prince.

Militant stated that he does not and will not listen to ANY music influenced by Dylan or The Beatles.

I most certainly did not.

[Edited 6/15/11 17:44pm]

Imaginative said:

It occurred to me that I actually seem to have gotten all of the orgers to at least agree on one thing; Prince essentially plays 4 instruments! What they don't agree on is which ones he's best at, and his level of skill on each.

all that arguing and you are right, we pretty much all agree on that point--the point of this thread