What the fuck?

Prince has written more great songs than Dylan and McCartney. And in more genres.

blueskies2478 said:

Graycap23 said:

Lol............please.

They shaped Funk? House muisc? Dance music? Rap? Hiphop? R&B? Blues?

[Edited 6/13/11 13:19pm]

Finally someone said it! I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, but it often seems that the extent of The Beatles and Bob Dylan's influence on pop music tends to be somewhat overstated. If we're talking about rock music, then fine - have at it - call Dylan and The Beatles gods, because they are... within that realm. But if we're talking about other types of popular music like funk, dance, hip hop, r&b, jazz or rap, then it seems a bit pretentious to claim that all popular music produced after them is somehow stamped by their influence. It's interesting that people are often quick to point out that all artists after Dylan and The Beatles have been influenced by other artists as if to insinuate that either Dylan or The Beatles were the peak of musical genius and creativity and all music as we now know it is derived from them. Neither Dylan nor The Beatles invented music! They were heavily influenced by artists like Lil Richard, Chuck Berry, and Buddy Holly. And yes, they may be musical geniuses in their own right, but their huge celebrity and influence is also largely in part due to their positioning during a unique place and time in history.

Truth spoken.

Even Van Morrison knows it.

During a recent sitdown with The New Yorker, Morrison waxed nostaglic on the music he grew up on. When skiffle pioneer Lonnie Donegan and 'other practioners of pre-Beatles rock 'n' roll' came up, Morrison took issue with the term.

"That's a cliché," he said. "I don't think 'pre-Beatles' means anything, because there was stuff before them. Over here, you have a different slant. You measure things in terms of The Beatles. We don't think music started there. Rolling Stone magazine does, because it's their mythology.

"The Beatles were peripheral. If you had more knowledge about music, it didn't really mean anything. To me, it was meaningless."

Van Morrison then went on to tackle The King. "Little Richard was doing rhythm and blues, but with horns. It was different than Elvis Presley, and so I preferred it. Why would you like Elvis if you had the real stuff?"

Why is Prince being compared to a folk-rock legend and a pop-rock legend who helped to launch the so-called "British Invasion", that's what I don't get from the arguments being put up here. Every time Prince's musicianship is "questioned", somebody always shouts them lol Love Dylan, love the Beatles, but COME THE FUCK ON! Even comparing Prince to Stevie Wonder or James Brown wouldn't make sense either. And don't get me started on MICHAEL!

[Edited 6/13/11 14:24pm]

Maybe there's rock purists here or something lol

novabrkr said:

Prince playing "seventeen" or even "forty" instruments stems from the way they listed all the instruments he plays on his first album in the liner notes. Most of them were different keyboard instruments and they just listed most of them by manufacturers. I don't think this was a deliberate attempt by Prince or either WB to mislead the public - many 1970s albums have the instruments used on them listed as well. The "myth" was mostly generated by people misunderstanding what that was about. It's also sort of silly that some journalists didn't know that "Moog", "Oberheim" and "ARP" are synthesizers by different companies and not entirely different type of instruments (the joke's on them, really). That just caught on and Prince didn't try to refute it himself at first as it was clearly working in his favour. Of course he has been quite clear later on that he mostly plays just the four different type of instruments (keyboards / guitar / bass / drums).

indeed

I can only play piano fairly, and to be honest I cant even name 40 different instruments, although i guess Prince can probably play or learn instantly how to play more than the 4 instruments listed, not saying he could play them at pro level though, but come on he's a great musician, I've met ppl who cant stand the guy, but still agree he's a great musician, surely "fans" can agree 2 that

ItsGonnaBLonely said:

novabrkr said:

Prince playing "seventeen" or even "forty" instruments stems from the way they listed all the instruments he plays on his first album in the liner notes. Most of them were different keyboard instruments and they just listed most of them by manufacturers. I don't think this was a deliberate attempt by Prince or either WB to mislead the public - many 1970s albums have the instruments used on them listed as well. The "myth" was mostly generated by people misunderstanding what that was about. It's also sort of silly that some journalists didn't know that "Moog", "Oberheim" and "ARP" are synthesizers by different companies and not entirely different type of instruments (the joke's on them, really). That just caught on and Prince didn't try to refute it himself at first as it was clearly working in his favour. Of course he has been quite clear later on that he mostly plays just the four different type of instruments (keyboards / guitar / bass / drums).

indeed

I can only play piano fairly, and to be honest I cant even name 40 different instruments, although i guess Prince can probably play or learn instantly how to play more than the 4 instruments listed, not saying he could play them at pro level though, but come on he's a great musician, I've met ppl who cant stand the guy, but still agree he's a great musician, surely "fans" can agree 2 that

Yeah I'm kinda not getting this argument people are pulling here.

Imaginative said:

Your not liking Dylan and McCartney has nothing to do with the contributions they've made to music. Prince certainly has no hesitation in citing their contributions to HIS music and is even regularly featuring a recent Bob Dylan song in his live setlist.

Can you please provide any examples of Prince citing contributions that Paul McCartney or Bob Dylan have made to HIS music?

Also people love Dylan and McCartney but bringing them up in a PRINCE thread? Seriously? lol

langebleu said:

Anyway wasn't this about him being a multi-instrumentalist and "exposing" some myth that hasn't been really been proven debunk besides the 27-plus instruments. It's obvious he plays a total of 10. Hell doesn't playing 6 instruments require to be a multi-instrumentalist?

Being able to play as many correct hits pr second on the piano as Prince does, doesn't make Prince just a decent piano player. Being able to put as much emotion, dynamic and edge as he does, at the same time "producing" it on the fly with the rest of the composition is not what most people can do. Prince best talent as an instrumentalist is to know what part in a composition it should have, and to play it just about how he wanted it to be played. And to know this he's got to have great sense of musicality in him, and some experience listeing to and playing alot of different music and instruments. I will not argue technique with anyone, but his presence and feel is something else. It's rare.

LOL, all this thread needs is a sand dollar.

Timmy84 said:

I'm just awaiting for someone to say "F**K PRINCE".

Hasn't happened yet.

njin said:

Graycap23 said:

Imaginative said:

Graycap23 said: If you need me to tell you, it's a fruitless exercise. But for the sake of argument, I'll name two obvious ones; Bob Dylan and Paul McCartney. [Edited 6/13/11 12:46pm]

It's all about personal taste. I don't like either one of them.

What Graycap23 said ...

I wouldn't say I don't like Dylan or McCartney but, I barely know their music or The Beatles for that matter. Wasn't my flava when I started to listen and like music. My musical taste go from NY East Coast Hip Hop to 80's European Craze New Wave and Pop Music to 'some' Neo-Soul and with a heavy dose of Mr. James Brown and Parliment Funk-A-Delic ...

Stop it! Don't you guys dare turn this into a Prince vs. The Beatles vs. Bob Dylan thread

SoulAlive said:

Stop it! Don't you guys dare turn this into a Prince vs. The Beatles vs. Bob Dylan thread

Don't encourage them.

Timmy84 said:

Also people love Dylan and McCartney but bringing them up in a PRINCE thread? Seriously? lol

I agree.Let's stay on topic and focus solely on PRINCE.

Timmy84 said:

Also people love Dylan and McCartney but bringing them up in a PRINCE thread? Seriously? lol

Better off citing Mozart

I agree, Dylan & McCartney I some what dig, but where do they are any other artist fit in with Prince???

[Edited 6/13/11 14:56pm]

Timmy84 said:

Timmy84 said:

Why is Prince being compared to a folk-rock legend and a pop-rock legend who helped to launch the so-called "British Invasion", that's what I don't get from the arguments being put up here. Every time Prince's musicianship is "questioned", somebody always shouts them lol Love Dylan, love the Beatles, but COME THE FUCK ON! Even comparing Prince to Stevie Wonder or James Brown wouldn't make sense either. And don't get me started on MICHAEL!

[Edited 6/13/11 14:24pm]

I really have a morbid hate of this topic, I know it's going to bring every failed musician out of the woodwork tooting their own horn and saying "prince is just not that good on so and so". It's always these musicians who for whatever reason, never got a break, can't really be as good as they say or are good at things that no one really cares about. I mean, colleges churn out thousands of music majors every year, most of them don't realize that they are just a bunch of dodos. Prince does not need to play any instrument as well as he does because he's a great artist without that. Musicians, (and I am one) irritate the hell out me and are about the biggest group of prima donnas i've ever seen, I don't associate with many of them, don't have much in common outside of being a musician with them and just have a sort of fascination with your nasty attitudes. As far as P on piano, he's great, better than a lot, listen to some of his solos on his early records or watch some tapes, it would be pointless to spend more time becoming better and he realizes this, I think his main instrument will not only be the guitar but his composing and recording.

Bewdy said:

langebleu said:

Can you please provide any examples of Prince citing contributions that Paul McCartney or Bob Dylan have made to HIS music?

Idiot response, practically all of arou d the world in a day is Beatles influenced, parade also.

I'm not suggesting he hasn't been influenced by other people's work including the Beatles and I'm well versed in knowing where people might draw their own conslusions about influences on his work. However, the poster said Prince hasn't hesitated to cite the contribitions that McCartney or Bob Dylan have made to his music. I'm asking for where prince has cited their contributions.

PurpleLove7 said:

Timmy84 said:

I'm just awaiting for someone to say "F**K PRINCE".

Hasn't happened yet.

NDRU said:

Timmy84 said:

Why is Prince being compared to a folk-rock legend and a pop-rock legend who helped to launch the so-called "British Invasion", that's what I don't get from the arguments being put up here. Every time Prince's musicianship is "questioned", somebody always shouts them lol Love Dylan, love the Beatles, but COME THE FUCK ON! Even comparing Prince to Stevie Wonder or James Brown wouldn't make sense either. And don't get me started on MICHAEL!

[Edited 6/13/11 14:24pm]

because someone mentioned songwriting, but you are right that is not what this thread is about

Maybe there are closet Prince haters in this bitch.

[Edited 6/13/11 15:46pm]

langebleu said:

Bewdy said:

langebleu said: Idiot response, practically all of arou d the world in a day is Beatles influenced, parade also.

I'm not suggesting he hasn't been influenced by other people's work including the Beatles and I'm well versed in knowing where people might draw their own conslusions about influences on his work. However, the poster said Prince hasn't hesitated to cite the contribitions that McCartney or Bob Dylan have made to his music. I'm asking for where prince has cited their contributions.

It was an idiot response, which is why I avoided it. As Bewdy implied, he cites their influence in his music constantly. He also plays Beatles and Dylan in his live sets often.

Dylan brought a personal, auto-biographical approach to pop music, and in doing so, single handedly invented what we refer to as today as the modern "singer-songwriter." (Not to be be confused with other singers who wrote songs prior to Dylan, but basically sung love cliches.) Therefore, anytime a singer sits down and attempts to write something deeply personal, in doing so, they are citing Dylan.

Similarly, anytime Prince plays a "G flat major with an E in the bass" or a variation of the melody in the bass register, (which he does OFTEN) he is citing McCartney, who was the first to really play those kind of inversions and apply these techniques to modern pop.

Anytime Prince has used technology to alter the sound of his singing voice, he is citing The Beatles, who were the first to do so.

These are just three of what could easily be countless examples.

[Edited 6/13/11 15:55pm]

I think Prince knowing the different instruments and being able to read music allows him to communicate to his bandmates what he wants, and it's pretty much him wearing the producer's hat. They all have to be ready for any curveball he throws them, but he also knows what they're all capable of.

A drummer coming to Prince's crew knows that he has to step up more than he would with others. He knows that Prince is going to catch him or her when they slip up.

Phil Collins said Genesis had switched instruments around all the time when they were working on songs.

I'm sure Prince knows if he had the time, he would probably take lessons from certain masters he admires and wants to take his playing to the next level. Few working musicians have that luxury, but they all say that they become better players from it, or they say they don't notice it at first, but over time, see and hear the differences.

Joni plays different instruments, but late 70s, she had an incredible band backing her. Her niche is mostly around her guitar tunings.

That is a moronic point to make.

You might as well say - dubstep uses drum machines. Therefore Prince is a major influence on dubstep because he was one of the first popular artist to use drum machines.

If Dylan and McCartney hadn't have done those things, someone else would have. At the same time. In fact, there were likely people doing those things before Dylan and McCartney. They were just the most famous people at that time.