reading the 'prince - in the studio' book and got to the making of the black album section and susan rogers confirmed what i had always knew...that the black album was never considered as the follow up to sign o the times....the black album tracks were made on days off from recording sign and they were quickly recorded and not taken too seriously by prince...just some funk jams that he could do in his sleep

.

i remember when i heard the black album back in 1988..i knew this wasnt meant to be a main prince album...just wasnt up to the standard of his other albums and way below the quality of sign o the times...

.

so it looks like prince never intended for this album to be released officially at the time...he pulled the production of this album so it would become widely bootlegged ...it was a throwaway funk party album..

.

lovesexy...of course..followed officially and was far better and a more justified follow up to sign o the times...

The black album is great and I believe the regular story that he changed his mind about releasing it. He changed his mind about so many other albums too that it isn't a big surprise.

And What about When 2 r in Love...is that another throwawy track? Guess not.

If you listen to the album and the complexity of the songs, you can tell they werne't "quickly" recorded. I mean Prince probably recorded a lot of classic songs quickly but they sure don't sound like demos.

FunkiestOne said:

The black album is great and I believe the regular story that he changed his mind about releasing it. He changed his mind about so many other albums too that it isn't a big surprise.

And What about When 2 r in Love...is that another throwawy track? Guess not.

If you listen to the album and the complexity of the songs, you can tell they werne't "quickly" recorded. I mean Prince probably recorded a lot of classic songs quickly but they sure don't sound like demos.

Agree.

OK.

blackbob said:

reading the 'prince - in the studio' book and got to the making of the black album section and susan rogers confirmed what i had always knew...that the black album was never considered as the follow up to sign o the times....the black album tracks were made on days off from recording sign and they were quickly recorded and not taken too seriously by prince...just some funk jams that he could do in his sleep

.

i remember when i heard the black album back in 1988..i knew this wasnt meant to be a main prince album...just wasnt up to the standard of his other albums and way below the quality of sign o the times...

.

so it looks like prince never intended for this album to be released officially at the time...he pulled the production of this album so it would become widely bootlegged ...it was a throwaway funk party album..

.

lovesexy...of course..followed officially and was far better and a more justified follow up to sign o the times...

You make no sense at all. What the hell is a "throwaway funk party album"? What kind of party would The Black Album get played at? In 1988 no less? SOTT and quality don't belong in the same sentence. I know SOTT is great, but only in an art project type of way. That sucker didn't sell, tanked on radio and let's not act like it was not recorded in an half-azzed fashion. And then LoveEcstacy was basicaly mastered demos and a retread dismantling of a much stronger Revolution era outtake.

blackbob said:

reading the 'prince - in the studio' book and got to the making of the black album section and susan rogers confirmed what i had always knew...that the black album was never considered as the follow up to sign o the times....the black album tracks were made on days off from recording sign and they were quickly recorded and not taken too seriously by prince...just some funk jams that he could do in his sleep

.

i remember when i heard the black album back in 1988..i knew this wasnt meant to be a main prince album...just wasnt up to the standard of his other albums and way below the quality of sign o the times...

.

so it looks like prince never intended for this album to be released officially at the time...he pulled the production of this album so it would become widely bootlegged ...it was a throwaway funk party album..

.

lovesexy...of course..followed officially and was far better and a more justified follow up to sign o the times...

The "Black Album" tracks were compiled for use on a birthday party for Sheila E. and he wanted to release it as a nameless album without any ties to him, like the Madhouse albums...

Neversin.

Neversin said:

blackbob said:

reading the 'prince - in the studio' book and got to the making of the black album section and susan rogers confirmed what i had always knew...that the black album was never considered as the follow up to sign o the times....the black album tracks were made on days off from recording sign and they were quickly recorded and not taken too seriously by prince...just some funk jams that he could do in his sleep

.

i remember when i heard the black album back in 1988..i knew this wasnt meant to be a main prince album...just wasnt up to the standard of his other albums and way below the quality of sign o the times...

.

so it looks like prince never intended for this album to be released officially at the time...he pulled the production of this album so it would become widely bootlegged ...it was a throwaway funk party album..

.

lovesexy...of course..followed officially and was far better and a more justified follow up to sign o the times...

The "Black Album" tracks were compiled for use on a birthday party for Sheila E. and he wanted to release it as a nameless album without any ties to him, like the Madhouse albums...

Neversin.

blackbob said:

reading the 'prince - in the studio' book and got to the making of the black album section and susan rogers confirmed what i had always knew...that the black album was never considered as the follow up to sign o the times....the black album tracks were made on days off from recording sign and they were quickly recorded and not taken too seriously by prince...just some funk jams that he could do in his sleep

.

i remember when i heard the black album back in 1988..i knew this wasnt meant to be a main prince album...just wasnt up to the standard of his other albums and way below the quality of sign o the times...

.

so it looks like prince never intended for this album to be released officially at the time...he pulled the production of this album so it would become widely bootlegged ...it was a throwaway funk party album..

.

lovesexy...of course..followed officially and was far better and a more justified follow up to sign o the times...

I don't see the big news here: it's been known since Per Nielsen that TBA was a collection of songs that were recorded just 4 fun, exactly like Chaos & Disorder and (most of) The Vault... Old Friend 4 Sale. Prince recorded them just 4 the sake of doing so and THEN decided to make an album outta 'em (save Rock Hard which was a Camille/Crystal Ball outtake). To use this info to jump in yet another conspiracy theory about Prince never planning to release this album in the first place and the ecstasy trip never happening or having nothing to do with it goes against everything Per Nielsen also established in DMSR. So please don't feed the trolls with personnal theories made facts.

This being said: NO it was never supposed to be the next Prince album because it wasn't supposed to be a "Prince" album at all, it was supposed to be released anonymously and be another "hide-and-seek" project like Madhouse. This is one thing that's established and it doesn't mean that P wasn't planning to release it.

Next?

The origin of the black album. The songs were recorded hear and there. Three were for Sheils E's birthday.

The black album came is response to people saying Prince was NOT funky anymore. In the summer of 87 George Michael had a huge hit with "I want your sex". They were saying Prince "Lost it"

In response he set forth the black album. If you read the liner notes to the Lovesexy Tour Program it explains..in Prince language...the whole thing.

He pulled it after what some say was a bad xtc trip. He didn't want it to be remembered as his last album.

The Black album was a reaction. Not an intention.

funksterr said:

blackbob said:

reading the 'prince - in the studio' book and got to the making of the black album section and susan rogers confirmed what i had always knew...that the black album was never considered as the follow up to sign o the times....the black album tracks were made on days off from recording sign and they were quickly recorded and not taken too seriously by prince...just some funk jams that he could do in his sleep

.

i remember when i heard the black album back in 1988..i knew this wasnt meant to be a main prince album...just wasnt up to the standard of his other albums and way below the quality of sign o the times...

.

so it looks like prince never intended for this album to be released officially at the time...he pulled the production of this album so it would become widely bootlegged ...it was a throwaway funk party album..

.

lovesexy...of course..followed officially and was far better and a more justified follow up to sign o the times...

You make no sense at all. What the hell is a "throwaway funk party album"? What kind of party would The Black Album get played at? In 1988 no less? SOTT and quality don't belong in the same sentence. I know SOTT is great, but only in an art project type of way. That sucker didn't sell, tanked on radio and let's not act like it was not recorded in an half-azzed fashion. And then LoveEcstacy was basicaly mastered demos and a retread dismantling of a much stronger Revolution era outtake.

SOTT is a high quality album and it had three top 10 hits on the radio so it did not tank. Sott is not only great in an art project way, it had strong commercial success with songs like u got the look. Most artists would be lucky to sell 3 million copies with an album

Have you not read any other Prince book, this is pretty common knowledge.

Grab DMSR, it's great

NouveauDance said:

Have you not read any other Prince book, this is pretty common knowledge.

Grab DMSR, it's great

yes i have read dmsr...unless i am losing my marbles...i dont remember dmsr going into as much detail about the studio recordings as this new book...as flawed as it is..it has some good info in it.

.

it was a few years ago now that i read dmsr mind you...

.

LIBRA said:

The origin of the black album. The songs were recorded hear and there. Three were for Sheils E's birthday.

The black album came is response to people saying Prince was NOT funky anymore. In the summer of 87 George Michael had a huge hit with "I want your sex". They were saying Prince "Lost it"

In response he set forth the black album. If you read the liner notes to the Lovesexy Tour Program it explains..in Prince language...the whole thing.

He pulled it after what some say was a bad xtc trip. He didn't want it to be remembered as his last album.

The Black album was a reaction. Not an intention.

fair enough..but it was never meant to be the follow up to sign o the times and i think he made the right decision by pulling it...it was just tracks he threw together quickly on off days (susan rogers words..not mine )...

.

its not a bad album...i like some of the stuff on it but it aint no parade, sign or lovesexy...i think it would have damaged his career if it had came out...imo..at that time...

.

.

This isn't so, and doesn't really make sense if you think about it - They pressed and destroyed thousands of copies of the album, which is pretty wasteful and expensive for something never intended to be released. No, it was all set for release, and meant to be under the radar and not really 'the next Prince album' (that was Graffiti Bridge which was already being worked on). It was cancelled last minute, it wasn't part of a masterplan for noteriety - though P. definately worked that angle afterwards to mythologise (? that a word? ) Lovesexy.

Think of it as a bit like the Madhouse or NPG albums - it's Prince, but not mentioned overtly (although TBA is more obviously Prince, so it wouldn't fly quite so under the radar as those).

funksterr said:

SOTT and quality don't belong in the same sentence. I know SOTT is great, but only in an art project type of way. That sucker didn't sell, tanked on radio and let's not act like it was not recorded in an half-azzed fashion. And then LoveEcstacy was basicaly mastered demos and a retread dismantling of a much stronger Revolution era outtake.

tanked on radio? This album had three Top 10 hits.One of these,"U Got The Look",peaked at Number Two on the pop singles charts.In my area,even the non-singles got radio airplay....."Housequake","Hot Thing","Adore",etc.The album sold over a million copies in the States,so I don't get why you're acting like it was a massive flop.

I like The Black Album,but I think Prince made the right decision in cancelling its release in 1987.

NouveauDance said:

so it looks like prince never intended for this album to be released officially at the time...he pulled the production of this album so it would become widely bootlegged ...it was a throwaway funk party album..

This isn't so, and doesn't really make sense if you think about it - They pressed and destroyed thousands of copies of the album, which is pretty wasteful and expensive for something never intended to be released. No, it was all set for release, and meant to be under the radar and not really 'the next Prince album' (that was Graffiti Bridge which was already being worked on). It was cancelled last minute, it wasn't part of a masterplan for noteriety - though P. definately worked that angle afterwards to mythologise (? that a word? ) Lovesexy.

Think of it as a bit like the Madhouse or NPG albums - it's Prince, but not mentioned overtly (although TBA is more obviously Prince, so it wouldn't fly quite so under the radar as those).

well i can go with that but if it HAD come out...it would have become apparent quickly to the masses that this was a new prince album and it would have been harsly judged compared to sign o the times...making it the biggest bootleg in the world was a good move at that time...

.

.

Waow. The Black Album is very sophisticated. The production is amazing throughout. You can hear the cohesion. To me it is one of his best efforts to date. Listen to all the details. It is everything but just quickly recorded tracks.

[Edited 6/8/11 3:24am]

I *love* The Black Album but I do think it has that sound to it as if it was quickly recorded. Also I think that effect is brought out because it's just funky and Prince was feeling what he was doing on it which can make an artist work quickly.

I don't care either way, that album is amazing.

funksterr said:

You make no sense at all. What the hell is a "throwaway funk party album"? What kind of party would The Black Album get played at? In 1988 no less? SOTT and quality don't belong in the same sentence. I know SOTT is great, but only in an art project type of way. That sucker didn't sell, tanked on radio and let's not act like it was not recorded in an half-azzed fashion. And then LoveEcstacy was basicaly mastered demos and a retread dismantling of a much stronger Revolution era outtake.

You're joking, right?

ohYeeeeeah said:

Waow. The Black Album is very sophisticated. The production is amazing throughout. You can hear the cohesion. To me it is one of his best efforts to date. Listen to all the details. It is everything but just quickly recorded tracks.

[Edited 6/8/11 3:24am]

.

.

well thats what susan rogers said about the recording of the black album tracks ..quickly recorded funk tracks made on his days off from recording sign...and she was there...

.

.

the album sounds quickly thrown together to my ears...

.

My old bootleg cassette of The Black Album got a lot of play at parties back in the day.

I like TBA much better than Lovesexy...I think its aging better as well. It's funky, funny, and fun. A party album? Yes. A throwaway? No.

SoulAlive said:

funksterr said:

tanked on radio? This album had three Top 10 hits.One of these,"U Got The Look",peaked at Number Two on the pop singles charts.In my area,even the non-singles got radio airplay....."Housequake","Hot Thing","Adore",etc.The album sold over a million copies in the States,so I don't get why you're acting like it was a massive flop.

The only thing that got played on radio was U Got The Look and eventually Adore on quiet storm stations. 1987 was the year of big drum sounds and SOTT sounded weak and tinny. I doubt the million copies sold number is an accurate reflection of how DOA the record was in the record shops. It was NOT a hot seller at the time. Sales may have aggragated over time so that you could put a headline like 'over 1 million copies sold' on it, but that is not an accurate reflection of what was happening with the record when it mattered most. I brought it up only because the OP used the phrase 'proper follow up'. Usually a commercial failure needs no proper follow up. Prince fans are conditioned by now it seems to celebrate failure.

TwiliteKid said:

funksterr said:

You make no sense at all. What the hell is a "throwaway funk party album"? What kind of party would The Black Album get played at? In 1988 no less? SOTT and quality don't belong in the same sentence. I know SOTT is great, but only in an art project type of way. That sucker didn't sell, tanked on radio and let's not act like it was not recorded in an half-azzed fashion. And then LoveEcstacy was basicaly mastered demos and a retread dismantling of a much stronger Revolution era outtake.

You're joking, right?

Dance On was an embarrassment and the first strong indication that Prince wasn't who I thought he was. Anna Stesia, Positivity both seem a little under-cooked. Alphabet St was great, but the rest of the album could have gone in the lake and we wouldn't have missed it.

blackbob said:

ohYeeeeeah said:

Waow. The Black Album is very sophisticated. The production is amazing throughout. You can hear the cohesion. To me it is one of his best efforts to date. Listen to all the details. It is everything but just quickly recorded tracks.

[Edited 6/8/11 3:24am]

.

.

well thats what susan rogers said about the recording of the black album tracks ..quickly recorded funk tracks made on his days off from recording sign...and she was there...

.

.

the album sounds quickly thrown together to my ears...

.

But that's what Prince does for most of his tunes. He records quickly or he gets bored. It doesn't mean he has not reworked these tunes here and there. The production is sophisticated. I cannot believe that Rock hard in a funky place or 2 Nigs United for West Compton have been recorded, produced and arranged in just a few hours. It is impossible. We always have Susan Rogers' opinion and comments on stuff but never Prince's version. I know he is pissed off with her and he thinks she blablablablas too much. I'm not surprised.

[Edited 6/8/11 9:50am]

funksterr said:

The only thing that got played on radio was U Got The Look and eventually Adore on quiet storm stations.

Where I lived, in addition to those songs, Sign O' The Times, I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man, and Hot Thing were played on the radio. The R&B station played If I Was Your Girlfriend, Slow Love, and Housequake. Girlfriend & Slow Love didn't get a lot of play, but they got airplay.

funksterr said:

SoulAlive said:

tanked on radio? This album had three Top 10 hits.One of these,"U Got The Look",peaked at Number Two on the pop singles charts.In my area,even the non-singles got radio airplay....."Housequake","Hot Thing","Adore",etc.The album sold over a million copies in the States,so I don't get why you're acting like it was a massive flop.

The only thing that got played on radio was U Got The Look and eventually Adore on quiet storm stations. 1987 was the year of big drum sounds and SOTT sounded weak and tinny. I doubt the million copies sold number is an accurate reflection of how DOA the record was in the record shops. It was NOT a hot seller at the time. Sales may have aggragated over time so that you could put a headline like 'over 1 million copies sold' on it, but that is not an accurate reflection of what was happening with the record when it mattered most. I brought it up only because the OP used the phrase 'proper follow up'. Usually a commercial failure needs no proper follow up. Prince fans are conditioned by now it seems to celebrate failure.

so you're telling me that the title track and "I Could Never Take The Place" weren't played on the radio,even though they were Top 10 hits? I don't know where you live,but I heard several of these songs on the radio,in heavy rotation throughout the summer and fall of '87.SOTT was a consistent seller.The only time that the sales were slow was when the poorly chosen second single was released ("If I Was Your Girlfriend").But when the catchy "U Got The Look" was released,the album began climbing back up the charts.You're mistaken if you think that this albun was a commercial failure.It's only a failure if you compare it to Purple Rain's sales but those sales weren't the norm for Prince anyway.

funksterr said:

TwiliteKid said:

You're joking, right?

Dance On was an embarrassment and the first strong indication that Prince wasn't who I thought he was. Anna Stesia, Positivity both seem a little under-cooked. Alphabet St was great, but the rest of the album could have gone in the lake and we wouldn't have missed it.

I agree with your opinion of "Dance On"....that's the one track that I'm not crazy about.

but the title track,"Anna Stesia","Alphabet St.","I Wish U Heaven" and "When 2 R In Love" are solid tracks.Some of the best songs that Prince has ever done.

SoulAlive said:

funksterr said:

The only thing that got played on radio was U Got The Look and eventually Adore on quiet storm stations. 1987 was the year of big drum sounds and SOTT sounded weak and tinny. I doubt the million copies sold number is an accurate reflection of how DOA the record was in the record shops. It was NOT a hot seller at the time. Sales may have aggragated over time so that you could put a headline like 'over 1 million copies sold' on it, but that is not an accurate reflection of what was happening with the record when it mattered most. I brought it up only because the OP used the phrase 'proper follow up'. Usually a commercial failure needs no proper follow up. Prince fans are conditioned by now it seems to celebrate failure.

so you're telling me that the title track and "I Could Never Take The Place" weren't played on the radio,even though they were Top 10 hits? I don't know where you live,but I heard several of these songs on the radio,in heavy rotation throughout the summer and fall of '87.SOTT was a consistent seller.The only time that the sales were slow was when the poorly chosen second single was released ("If I Was Your Girlfriend").But when the catchy "U Got The Look" was released,the album began climbing back up the charts.You're mistaken if you think that this albun was a commercial failure.It's only a failure if you compare it to Purple Rain's sales but those sales weren't the norm for Prince anyway.

I'm not going to disagree with you about I Could Never Take The Place On Your Man charting, but I don't think it was ever in HEAVY ROTATION anywhere. SOTT had 3 major things working against it at the time it came out: high price point, unmastered demo quality music, and music completely out of step with the popular trends in r&b and rock. WB knew it wouldn't sell well before they ever even released the thing. What you see in terms of stats looking back at it was a reflection of their sales team doing whatever it had to do to cover everybody's azzez and Prince's brand. In my view, Prince did the right thing in trying to change up the vibe for his next project, but both The Black Album and LoveSexy were terrible commercial offerings. You could argue they were artistic successes if you like, but Prince is in the commercial music business. Had he taken his role as salesman more seriously we never would have had all post Purple Rain drama.

funksterr said:

SoulAlive said:

tanked on radio? This album had three Top 10 hits.One of these,"U Got The Look",peaked at Number Two on the pop singles charts.In my area,even the non-singles got radio airplay....."Housequake","Hot Thing","Adore",etc.The album sold over a million copies in the States,so I don't get why you're acting like it was a massive flop.

The only thing that got played on radio was U Got The Look and eventually Adore on quiet storm stations. 1987 was the year of big drum sounds and SOTT sounded weak and tinny. I doubt the million copies sold number is an accurate reflection of how DOA the record was in the record shops. It was NOT a hot seller at the time. Sales may have aggragated over time so that you could put a headline like 'over 1 million copies sold' on it, but that is not an accurate reflection of what was happening with the record when it mattered most. I brought it up only because the OP used the phrase 'proper follow up'. Usually a commercial failure needs no proper follow up. Prince fans are conditioned by now it seems to celebrate failure.

you dont like prince, we get it. That doesnt mean an album that sells over a million copies is a "commercial failure". U got the look was not the "only" thing that was played, it had three top 10 hits. The title track reached #3 and U got the look was #2. An album with three top 10 hits cannot be described as a commercial failiure.