The previous thread on this topic has died, but new information continues to emerge, such as this New York Times story from today:

http://www.nytimes.com/20...views.html

I'm not sure what the turmoil over WMG means for Prince's music. I recall someone quoting Prince as saying that he is reluctant to cut a deal over remasters because there is so much turnover among the WMG management. Whether that is true or not, it seems plausible that resolving the uncertainty over WMG's future could make a deal more likely. What do you think?

I see it as ending up with a strong media company like Disney, or tech companies such as Google, MS, Apple or Amazon.

Regardless where it ends up, it would be in better hands.

(I killed the previous thread...I was the last to post. Sorry. )

The article you attached talks about a possible merger with EMI... so Prince's masters jump out of the pot and into the fire...nothing changes.

EMI has had just as much turnover as Warner. They were just recently bought out by Citigroup.

Disclaimer...I know nothing about the music industry, record labels, Prince, or anything else of relavance to this topic.

I fear the bigger the company becomes, the less likely they are to cave to Prince's monetary demands. Or maybe they'd be more likely? I dunno.

Either way, thanks for starting the discussion back up. Remasters are my #1 Prince concern...

If Prince had any sense, he would try and do a deal now.

The masters clock is ticking in his favour, and the current WB directors will be looking to produce short term profits, so thay can strike a deal with EMI that will give them gold plated pensions.

In return for Prince agreeing to the remasters under the WB label, he should ask for early release of the master tapes and an increased artist percentage in the sales.

Prince could make one final big day. Agree to a worldwide hits tour with regional releasing of the remasters.

Then he can sit back on his millions and he'll have his masters.

SquirrelMeat said:

If Prince had any sense, he would try and do a deal now.

The masters clock is ticking in his favour, and the current WB directors will be looking to produce short term profits, so thay can strike a deal with EMI that will give them gold plated pensions.

In return for Prince agreeing to the remasters under the WB label, he should ask for early release of the master tapes and an increased artist percentage in the sales.

Prince could make one final big day. Agree to a worldwide hits tour with regional releasing of the remasters.

Then he can sit back on his millions and he'll have his masters.

There it is, Prince! Done, and done.

eyewishuheaven said:

SquirrelMeat said:

If Prince had any sense, he would try and do a deal now.

The masters clock is ticking in his favour, and the current WB directors will be looking to produce short term profits, so thay can strike a deal with EMI that will give them gold plated pensions.

In return for Prince agreeing to the remasters under the WB label, he should ask for early release of the master tapes and an increased artist percentage in the sales.

Prince could make one final big day. Agree to a worldwide hits tour with regional releasing of the remasters.

Then he can sit back on his millions and he'll have his masters.

There it is, Prince! Done, and done.

Remember a few months back when dr.funkenberry briefly mentioned that Prince had been meeting with WB. Perhaps this is what's going on. One can hope.

I just cannot understand how some of the greatest music in history is not being properly taken care of...

The unfortunate, albeit, inevitable future of Prince's back catalog...

[img:$uid]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/SexyBeautifulOne/21150Explosion.jpg[/img:$uid]

CallMeCarrie said:

(I killed the previous thread...I was the last to post. Sorry. )

The article you attached talks about a possible merger with EMI... so Prince's masters jump out of the pot and into the fire...nothing changes.

EMI has had just as much turnover as Warner. They were just recently bought out by Citigroup.

Disclaimer...I know nothing about the music industry, record labels, Prince, or anything else of relavance to this topic.

Do the threads automatically archive after 2 months? Maybe that's why the thread died. Anyway, I don't know anything about the music industry either, but it does seem like these deals would be relevant to any discussion of possible remasters.

SquirrelMeat said:

If Prince had any sense, he would try and do a deal now.

The masters clock is ticking in his favour, and the current WB directors will be looking to produce short term profits, so thay can strike a deal with EMI that will give them gold plated pensions.

In return for Prince agreeing to the remasters under the WB label, he should ask for early release of the master tapes and an increased artist percentage in the sales.

Prince could make one final big day. Agree to a worldwide hits tour with regional releasing of the remasters.

Then he can sit back on his millions and he'll have his masters.

Word.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

The unfortunate, albeit, inevitable future of Prince's back catalog...

[img:$uid]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/SexyBeautifulOne/21150Explosion.jpg[/img:$uid]

Are you saying you don't think there will ever be any remasters, or that they will suck (due to self-censorship, remixing, compression, etc.)? Seems to me that the latter is more likely.

SquirrelMeat said:

If Prince had any sense, he would try and do a deal now.

The masters clock is ticking in his favour, and the current WB directors will be looking to produce short term profits, so thay can strike a deal with EMI that will give them gold plated pensions.

In return for Prince agreeing to the remasters under the WB label, he should ask for early release of the master tapes and an increased artist percentage in the sales.

Prince could make one final big day. Agree to a worldwide hits tour with regional releasing of the remasters.

Then he can sit back on his millions and he'll have his masters.

Makes way too much sense to become a reality.

NouveauDance said:

SquirrelMeat said:

If Prince had any sense, he would try and do a deal now.

The masters clock is ticking in his favour, and the current WB directors will be looking to produce short term profits, so thay can strike a deal with EMI that will give them gold plated pensions.

In return for Prince agreeing to the remasters under the WB label, he should ask for early release of the master tapes and an increased artist percentage in the sales.

Prince could make one final big day. Agree to a worldwide hits tour with regional releasing of the remasters.

Then he can sit back on his millions and he'll have his masters.

Makes way too much sense to become a reality.

very true

electricberet said:

CallMeCarrie said:

(I killed the previous thread...I was the last to post. Sorry. )

The article you attached talks about a possible merger with EMI... so Prince's masters jump out of the pot and into the fire...nothing changes.

EMI has had just as much turnover as Warner. They were just recently bought out by Citigroup.

Disclaimer...I know nothing about the music industry, record labels, Prince, or anything else of relavance to this topic.

Do the threads automatically archive after 2 months? Maybe that's why the thread died. Anyway, I don't know anything about the music industry either, but it does seem like these deals would be relevant to any discussion of possible remasters.

Hell - I don't know!

Like my disclaimer says.. I know nothing!

I am skeptical that no matter who buys out Warner that any business practices would change.

It would take a movement of the whole industry and not just the financial needs of one company.

Don't get me wrong - theoretically, I am on board with what SquirrelMeat proposed.

I just don' think the money coming in from Prince would have that much of an impact on the profitability of the company, especially this late in the game. Warner's debt is $2 billion.

And Squirrel wants to renegotiate increasing the artist percentage in the sales which would take even more money out of the pockets of Warner...uh that doesn't seem like something they would do.

Wouldn't WMG have paid Prince off already, if they really would be interested in releasing remasters? (read: see a profit in it)

Tremolina said:

Wouldn't WMG have paid Prince off already, if they really would be interested in releasing remasters? (read: see a profit in it)

One question I have is whether the current WMG management will stay in place when the dust has cleared. New management might have different ideas about what to do with Prince's catalog. That doesn't necessarily mean they would want to pay him more, though. It's not really clear how the music industry is going to make money in the future, but whoever buys WMG must think the company is a good value for some reason.

CallMeCarrie said:

Don't get me wrong - theoretically, I am on board with what SquirrelMeat proposed.

I just don' think the money coming in from Prince would have that much of an impact on the profitability of the company, especially this late in the game. Warner's debt is $2 billion.

And Squirrel wants to renegotiate increasing the artist percentage in the sales which would take even more money out of the pockets of Warner...uh that doesn't seem like something they would do.

Personally, I don't see a deal being struck as I think Prince will always demand too much. I was just pointing out what I think he should do.

Prince can call the shots now. Increasing the artist percentage would not cost WB anything, because without the renegotiation, the deal is dead to begin with. They can only make money as long as they make it worthwhile to P.

But WB will lose lose out on tens of millions if they do nothing, letting Prince regain his masters under the current rules, only for him to pocket all the money in a remaster release.

Prince alone won't clear a corporate huge debt, but it could pave the way for other deals with Artists with substantial back catalogues. Plus any profit made in the current financial year will carry far more weight in a corporate merger than millions in historic debt.

WB may be millions in debt, but the very reason they don't get taken out by the financial houses is because they have tangible assets. Namely the catalogues. But the time is ticking on those assets.

The record companies have two choices. Let the assets slip through their fingers or sweat them one last time.

SquirrelMeat said:

CallMeCarrie said:

I just don' think the money coming in from Prince would have that much of an impact on the profitability of the company, especially this late in the game. Warner's debt is $2 billion.

And Squirrel wants to renegotiate increasing the artist percentage in the sales which would take even more money out of the pockets of Warner...uh that doesn't seem like something they would do.

Personally, I don't see a deal being struck as I think Prince will always demand too much. I was just pointing out what I think he should do.

Prince can call the shots now. Increasing the artist percentage would not cost WB anything, because without the renegotiation, the deal is dead to begin with. They can only make money as long as they make it worthwhile to P.

But WB will lose lose out on tens of millions if they do nothing, letting Prince regain his masters under the current rules, only for him to pocket all the money in a remaster release.

Prince alone won't clear a corporate huge debt, but it could pave the way for other deals with Artists with substantial back catalogues. Plus any profit made in the current financial year will carry far more weight in a corporate merger than millions in historic debt.

WB may be millions in debt, but the very reason they don't get taken out by the financial houses is because they have tangible assets. Namely the catalogues. But the time is ticking on those assets.

The record companies have two choices. Let the assets slip through their fingers or sweat them one last time.

I see what you're saying. That makes sense.

SquirrelMeat said:

CallMeCarrie said:

I just don' think the money coming in from Prince would have that much of an impact on the profitability of the company, especially this late in the game. Warner's debt is $2 billion.

And Squirrel wants to renegotiate increasing the artist percentage in the sales which would take even more money out of the pockets of Warner...uh that doesn't seem like something they would do.

Personally, I don't see a deal being struck as I think Prince will always demand too much. I was just pointing out what I think he should do.

Prince can call the shots now. Increasing the artist percentage would not cost WB anything, because without the renegotiation, the deal is dead to begin with. They can only make money as long as they make it worthwhile to P.

But WB will lose lose out on tens of millions if they do nothing, letting Prince regain his masters under the current rules, only for him to pocket all the money in a remaster release.

Prince alone won't clear a corporate huge debt, but it could pave the way for other deals with Artists with substantial back catalogues. Plus any profit made in the current financial year will carry far more weight in a corporate merger than millions in historic debt.

WB may be millions in debt, but the very reason they don't get taken out by the financial houses is because they have tangible assets. Namely the catalogues. But the time is ticking on those assets.

The record companies have two choices. Let the assets slip through their fingers or sweat them one last time.

I don't think a figure in the tens of millions is so crazy. According to this article, Bon Jovi had $12.3 million in album and digital track sales in 2010:

http://www.knoxville.com/...neymakers/

Over their career, however, Bon Jovi have sold 35 million albums, whereas Prince has sold 39.5:

http://www.riaa.com/golda...=tblTopArt

Surely a Prince remaster campaign, coupled with a new album release on WB, could be as successful as whatever Bon Jovi did last year. But WMG and its bidders are probably looking at this differently, thinking about the possible value of their catalog on whatever cloud services various companies are planning to offer. Prince's albums are going to sound weird to people downloading them from the cloud when almost every other artist's catalog has been remastered.

Who,outside of the fanbase, would jump at buying a old Prince record?

It's just not financially rewarding for both parties.

If the EMI merger happens I would not expect to ever see Prince's back catalog remastered unless Prince gets a serious attitude adjustment somewhere along the way. Managing a catalog so massive would be a tremendous job, and nobody who is doing that is also going to put up with Prince's shit; especially not when they can just keep releasing greatest hits collections every couple years.

muleFunk said:

Who,outside of the fanbase, would jump at buying a old Prince record?

It's just not financially rewarding for both parties.

An old Prince record would sell a load more than a new one.

All they'd need is a little -gasp- promotion. People - fans and casuals alike - would love to get their hands on a remastered 1999, PR and SOTT. The others might drop off in sales, but that's no different to any other artist. Prince has a huge audience, just because he's happy to squander his legacy, he still has one.

I wonder how many high up at WB were around when he went to war with them, how many are petty enough to stay in FU mode after all these yrs.

dreamshaman32 said:

I wonder how many high up at WB were around when he went to war with them, how many are petty enough to stay in FU mode after all these yrs.

Prince said that all the faces he knew had moved on.

I suppose you could view that two ways. Either he has lost any allies he has there, or there is no one left to remember is stupid demands.

Prince prefered the Mo Austin types to the modern execs. I can't see him changing his ways now.

NouveauDance said:

muleFunk said:

Who,outside of the fanbase, would jump at buying a old Prince record?

It's just not financially rewarding for both parties.

An old Prince record would sell a load more than a new one.

All they'd need is a little -gasp- promotion. People - fans and casuals alike - would love to get their hands on a remastered 1999, PR and SOTT. The others might drop off in sales, but that's no different to any other artist. Prince has a huge audience, just because he's happy to squander his legacy, he still has one.

That may be true but to the corporate music people they are looking at $$$$. The only Prince albums that would sell big $$$$ are Purple Rain and 1999. SOTT did not really sell mega units and there is no proof that it would sell now. In just a pure numbers speculation I don't see the money being made for WB do release those albums unless Prince passed on and they got a bump like MJ did.( God forbid)

muleFunk said:

NouveauDance said:

An old Prince record would sell a load more than a new one.

All they'd need is a little -gasp- promotion. People - fans and casuals alike - would love to get their hands on a remastered 1999, PR and SOTT. The others might drop off in sales, but that's no different to any other artist. Prince has a huge audience, just because he's happy to squander his legacy, he still has one.

That may be true but to the corporate music people they are looking at $$$$. The only Prince albums that would sell big $$$$ are Purple Rain and 1999. SOTT did not really sell mega units and there is no proof that it would sell now. In just a pure numbers speculation I don't see the money being made for WB do release those albums unless Prince passed on and they got a bump like MJ did.( God forbid)

Maybe, but some money is still better than none. The masters are a deminishing asset to WB.

WB might offer to handle it like they did with A-ha. Only the 2 biggest selling albums got the double disc remastered treatment.

I think there is good money to be made remastering 1999, PR, ATWIAD, Parade, SOTT, Lovesexy and Batman. Outside of the US, the later albums faired very well.

muleFunk said:

Who,outside of the fanbase, would jump at buying a old Prince record?

It's just not financially rewarding for both parties.

People will buy anything if it's promoted well/successfully.

I think there is a HUGE untapped market of younger fans that would be into Prince, but aren't into him because Prince (talking music and merchandise) hasn't been marketed to them (or anyone besides existing fans) properly for awhile now.

Think about Prince's renaissance back into the mainstream in 2004. He was all over MTV, BET, VH1 etc. He had the most successful tour of the year, and was everywhere. That one year of proper marketing has sustained/pushed Prince's career up through now. From 2004 onwards, all he has had to do is make a few appearances and he's selling out shows, winning more awards than he did in the 90's, and even having albums crack the top 10.

Bottom Line: I think that Prince has the potential to "sell" to younger generations like any of the all time greats do, just like Jimi, The Beatles, Bowie, Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, Bob Marley, MJ, etc.

skywalker said:

muleFunk said:

Who,outside of the fanbase, would jump at buying a old Prince record?

It's just not financially rewarding for both parties.

People will buy anything if it's promoted well/successfully.

I think there is a HUGE untapped market of younger fans that would be into Prince, but aren't into him because Prince (talking music and merchandise) hasn't been marketed to them (or anyone besides existing fans) properly for awhile now.

Think about Prince's renaissance back into the mainstream in 2004. He was all over MTV, BET, VH1 etc. He had the most successful tour of the year, and was everywhere. That one year of proper marketing has sustained/pushed Prince's career up through now. From 2004 onwards, all he has had to do is make a few appearances and he's selling out shows, winning more awards than he did in the 90's, and even having albums crack the top 10.

Bottom Line: I think that Prince has the potential to "sell" to younger generations like any of the all time greats do, just like Jimi, The Beatles, Bowie, Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, Bob Marley, MJ, etc.

I agree. I used Bon Jovi as an example because they are presumably not selling to baby boomers, who account for a lot of the sales of 1960s remasters. But I think Prince's audience is bigger than Bon Jovi's. If Prince issued remasters now, he could also have the advantage that most of his competitors have already done this and so there woudn't be as much competition for what remains of the CD market.

I don't c what Prince has to gain with a deal with WB before he gets his masters back. Then he can have them rereleased by any major he wants (including WB if he choses to), negociate a contract on his terms, and get 'em back whenever he wants.

It would be silly to do anything as long as WB has got the masters.