TheDigitalGardener said:

davetherave6767 said:

Where eye live they want £20 4 sign o the times???wtf.

SOTT is £3 where i live, Lotus is £5.

Hell, the 3 disc Hits/B-Sides is only £3, Emancipation too.

These are not one off deals, they have been this price for months.

SOTT was $26.99 for me when I bought it from JB Hi-Fi in Sydney...

Vict0r said:

TheDigitalGardener said:

SOTT is £3 where i live, Lotus is £5.

Hell, the 3 disc Hits/B-Sides is only £3, Emancipation too.

These are not one off deals, they have been this price for months.

SOTT was $26.99 for me when I bought it from JB Hi-Fi in Sydney...

It was expensive in the UK on release too, most of them are, but after a few months, places like Fopp Records in the UK practically give them away.

Vict0r said:

TheDigitalGardener said:

SOTT is £3 where i live, Lotus is £5.

Hell, the 3 disc Hits/B-Sides is only £3, Emancipation too.

These are not one off deals, they have been this price for months.

SOTT was $26.99 for me when I bought it from JB Hi-Fi in Sydney...

Be thanfull that U found a Prince album at any price in oZ, he aint no AC DC and the guy aint likely 2 be seen at the Swans game anytime soon!

i thought lovesexy sold almost 3 mil .. 2.8 to be exact er

emancipation scraped the million mark counting each album as 3 cds

come was the last mil seller and its been down hill ever since scraping around a half mil

which i think is fair to say is his hardcore buy anything whether its good or not fan base

prince has been less embarassing with his major label return but he is still riding his own coat tails for sales .. chocolate box is no alphabet street

lotus does have some good stuff on it but a single great record with no covers and no filler and no cringe factor would do his career wonders ..

TheDigitalGardener said:

davetherave6767 said:

Where eye live they want £20 4 sign o the times???wtf.

SOTT is £3 where i live, Lotus is £5.

Hell, the 3 disc Hits/B-Sides is only £3, Emancipation too.

These are not one off deals, they have been this price for months.

Maybe thats why they call it rip off britain!!!!!!!!!

NouveauDance said:

The recent albums have debuted well on the chart because he either bothered to promot them, or there was a gimmick attached. They're also all commercial pop records, which helps too.

For me, it's more about the impact the material makes rather than units collecting dust on people's shelves. Lovesexy sold relatively poorly in the USA, but Alphabet St. is in the pantheon of Prince's best known songs still today. Chocolate Box and Te Amo Corazon did not achieve the same accolade.

Well, it sold poorly in a world where Purple Rain was just 4 years ago.

P's last real success was Musicology. Before that? Rave.

davetherave6767 said:

TheDigitalGardener said:

SOTT is £3 where i live, Lotus is £5.

Hell, the 3 disc Hits/B-Sides is only £3, Emancipation too.

These are not one off deals, they have been this price for months.

Maybe thats why they call it rip off britain!!!!!!!!!

Rip Off????

Did you read this correctly?

£3 is a giveaway, hardly a rip off.

@ davetherave, I just dicovered you are in the UK dave, now I know why you are calling it rip off Britain, where about are you? (roughly)

[Edited 6/5/11 7:58am]

I totally get the point the OP is attempting to make, but the argument is weakened by trying to compare sales of albums in two different eras. You have to take into account that in 1988 there was no internet to constantly market a product, nor were there forums like this to link millions of people on a topic; back then we still primarily depended on radio (and to a lesser degree MTV), and simply Prince was not heard on the radio much in '88. Also don't confuse certification with actual sales. From Wiki:

Like many record industry awards and rankings, the measurement is usually based on wholesale shipments to all types of retail outlets, not actual retail sales or financial transactions. This means that an early award or ranking for a new release reflects a distributor's expectations for the album and their market power.

Certifications no longer apply solely to physical media, and are now bestowed upon songs used in different ways. In June 2006, the RIAA certified 84 songs as gold winners for ringtone downloads, 40 as platinum and 4 as multiplatinum.

Again, I understand the intent of the post but so much has changed in how we find and consume music over the past 23 years that we really can't make even a valid conversational comparison sales-wise between the Warner's albums and the ones released recently; that is not without alot of marketing adjustments and whatnot which is certainly well beyond my knowlege of the subject...

i picked up my copy in la & paid full whack!!.. i didn't mind, it was worth it 4 walking in2 the shop & seeing prince tasty face all over the gaff

TheDigitalGardener said:

@ davetherave, I just dicovered you are in the UK dave, now I know why you are calling it rip off Britain, where about are you? (roughly)

[Edited 6/5/11 7:58am]

near coventry,they call it the gazza strip.

davetherave6767 said:

TheDigitalGardener said:

@ davetherave, I just dicovered you are in the UK dave, now I know why you are calling it rip off Britain, where about are you? (roughly)

[Edited 6/5/11 7:58am]

near coventry,they call it the gazza strip.

But Lovesexy wasn't considered successful, either, was it? That was when they first started saying Prince was going broke

Spinlight said:

NouveauDance said:

The recent albums have debuted well on the chart because he either bothered to promot them, or there was a gimmick attached. They're also all commercial pop records, which helps too.

For me, it's more about the impact the material makes rather than units collecting dust on people's shelves. Lovesexy sold relatively poorly in the USA, but Alphabet St. is in the pantheon of Prince's best known songs still today. Chocolate Box and Te Amo Corazon did not achieve the same accolade.

Well, it sold poorly in a world where Purple Rain was just 4 years ago.

P's last real success was Musicology. Before that? Rave.

Rave was a success but Lotusflow3r was a flop? Based on what? Rave peaked at number 18, LF number 2. Both sold about 500,000 copies, and spent about the same amount of time on the charts. Neither produced any sizable hits.

Plus Rave, which had the Clive Davis hype machine behind it, was released at a time when artists like Britney, the Backstreet Boys, and even Limp Bizkit could sell 10 million copies of an album. Less than 10 albums have sold 4 million copies in the last five years. Albums don't sell what they used to. For a 50-something act to go gold in 2009 is a success.What are his contemporaries doing? Madonna's "Hard Candy" scored one hit thanks to Justin Timberlake then faded away.

Rihanna and Katy Perry, two of the biggest hit-makers of the last 5 years, barely sell over a million with their albums. Prince doing half that business is good. Lady Gaga sold over a million in a single week last week, but Amazon had to sell the album for 99 cents to make that happen. It ain't the 80s (or even the 90s) anymore y'all. What are you expecting?

[Edited 6/5/11 12:18pm]

renfield said:

Spinlight said:

Well, it sold poorly in a world where Purple Rain was just 4 years ago.

P's last real success was Musicology. Before that? Rave.

Rave was a success but Lotusflow3r was a flop? Based on what? Rave peaked at number 18, LF number 2. Both sold about 500,000 copies, and spent about the same amount of time on the charts. Neither produced any sizable hits.

Plus Rave, which had the Clive Davis hype machine behind it, was released at a time when artists like Britney, the Backstreet Boys, and even Limp Bizkit could sell 10 million copies of an album. Less than 10 albums have sold 4 million copies in the last five years. Albums don't sell what they used to. For a 50-something act to go gold in 2009 is a success.What are his contemporaries doing? Madonna's "Hard Candy" scored one hit thanks to Justin Timberlake then faded away.

Rihanna and Katy Perry, two of the biggest hit-makers of the last 5 years, barely sell over a million with their albums. Prince doing half that business is good. Lady Gaga sold over a million in a single week last week, but Amazon had to sell the album for 99 cents to make that happen. It ain't the 80s (or even the 90s) anymore y'all. What are you expecting?

[Edited 6/5/11 12:18pm]

This isn't about tit for tat. It's depicting how far and few between his successes are. LotusFlower can't compare to Rave. The two weren't even marketed the same. Rave had Prince at the VMAs and on TRL. Lotusflower didn't have that kind of pervasive promo.

Spinlight said:

renfield said:

Rave was a success but Lotusflow3r was a flop? Based on what? Rave peaked at number 18, LF number 2. Both sold about 500,000 copies, and spent about the same amount of time on the charts. Neither produced any sizable hits.

Plus Rave, which had the Clive Davis hype machine behind it, was released at a time when artists like Britney, the Backstreet Boys, and even Limp Bizkit could sell 10 million copies of an album. Less than 10 albums have sold 4 million copies in the last five years. Albums don't sell what they used to. For a 50-something act to go gold in 2009 is a success.What are his contemporaries doing? Madonna's "Hard Candy" scored one hit thanks to Justin Timberlake then faded away.

Rihanna and Katy Perry, two of the biggest hit-makers of the last 5 years, barely sell over a million with their albums. Prince doing half that business is good. Lady Gaga sold over a million in a single week last week, but Amazon had to sell the album for 99 cents to make that happen. It ain't the 80s (or even the 90s) anymore y'all. What are you expecting?

[Edited 6/5/11 12:18pm]

This isn't about tit for tat. It's depicting how far and few between his successes are. LotusFlower can't compare to Rave. The two weren't even marketed the same. Rave had Prince at the VMAs and on TRL. Lotusflower didn't have that kind of pervasive promo.

Plus it was the year 1999. But all that stuff ultimately made the album all the more disappointing.

I don't hate Rave, but there has never been a more poorly titled album! Fucking thing is actually quite a bummer to listen to!

Spinlight said:

renfield said:

Rave was a success but Lotusflow3r was a flop? Based on what? Rave peaked at number 18, LF number 2. Both sold about 500,000 copies, and spent about the same amount of time on the charts. Neither produced any sizable hits.

Plus Rave, which had the Clive Davis hype machine behind it, was released at a time when artists like Britney, the Backstreet Boys, and even Limp Bizkit could sell 10 million copies of an album. Less than 10 albums have sold 4 million copies in the last five years. Albums don't sell what they used to. For a 50-something act to go gold in 2009 is a success.What are his contemporaries doing? Madonna's "Hard Candy" scored one hit thanks to Justin Timberlake then faded away.

Rihanna and Katy Perry, two of the biggest hit-makers of the last 5 years, barely sell over a million with their albums. Prince doing half that business is good. Lady Gaga sold over a million in a single week last week, but Amazon had to sell the album for 99 cents to make that happen. It ain't the 80s (or even the 90s) anymore y'all. What are you expecting?

[Edited 6/5/11 12:18pm]

This isn't about tit for tat. It's depicting how far and few between his successes are. LotusFlower can't compare to Rave. The two weren't even marketed the same. Rave had Prince at the VMAs and on TRL. Lotusflower didn't have that kind of pervasive promo.

Exactly, Rave was heavily hyped and LF wasn't, yet they performed the same. So how can you say Rave was a success but Lotusflow3r wasn't? If anything, it's the exact opposite. Whether you like his current albums or not, he's put together 4 consecutive top 3 albums for the first time in his career (Musicology - #3, 3121 - #1, Planet Earth - #3, and LF - #2). And 3 of those albums went gold or platinum (and before anyone says it, Musicology sold over a million in stores WITHOUT the concert giveaways).

Who would you like him to be like? U2, Springsteen, Bon Jovi, REM, Madonna, Janet, MJ's posthumous releases...they all debut high, fail to produce any big hit singles, then sink off the charts. In the end, they may sell a million, or slightly less. The same is true of Prince. His current albums, in terms of the others who have been doing this as long as he has, perform the same way. Of course he's not as successful as he was 15-25 years ago. None of his contemporaries are.

He does it on his own terms, gets paid up front, and still lands high-charting albums. Commercially, he's been doing great since the 2004 'comeback.' And outside of Purple Rain and 1999, he was NEVER a huge seller anyway. Classics like Parade, SOTT, and Controversy? Only a million each in the US. Diamonds & Pearls sold 2 million. So to still be getting those gold plaques a decade into the 21st century is impressive. It doesn't matter if he's not wowing the hardcores or making legions of new fans. The man's doing quite well these days.

renfield said:

Spinlight said:

This isn't about tit for tat. It's depicting how far and few between his successes are. LotusFlower can't compare to Rave. The two weren't even marketed the same. Rave had Prince at the VMAs and on TRL. Lotusflower didn't have that kind of pervasive promo.

Exactly, Rave was heavily hyped and LF wasn't, yet they performed the same. So how can you say Rave was a success but Lotusflow3r wasn't? If anything, it's the exact opposite. Whether you like his current albums or not, he's put together 4 consecutive top 3 albums for the first time in his career (Musicology - #3, 3121 - #1, Planet Earth - #3, and LF - #2). And 3 of those albums went gold or platinum (and before anyone says it, Musicology sold over a million in stores WITHOUT the concert giveaways).

Who would you like him to be like? U2, Springsteen, Bon Jovi, REM, Madonna, Janet, MJ's posthumous releases...they all debut high, fail to produce any big hit singles, then sink off the charts. In the end, they may sell a million, or slightly less. The same is true of Prince. His current albums, in terms of the others who have been doing this as long as he has, perform the same way. Of course he's not as successful as he was 15-25 years ago. None of his contemporaries are.

He does it on his own terms, gets paid up front, and still lands high-charting albums. Commercially, he's been doing great since the 2004 'comeback.' And outside of Purple Rain and 1999, he was NEVER a huge seller anyway. Classics like Parade, SOTT, and Controversy? Only a million each in the US. Diamonds & Pearls sold 2 million. So to still be getting those gold plaques a decade into the 21st century is impressive. It doesn't matter if he's not wowing the hardcores or making legions of new fans. The man's doing quite well these days.

Again, you're comparing apples to oranges. Rave did extremely well given the climate in which it was released. Lotusflower was 99 cents shortly after its release and wasn't even released worldwide.

You bring up Parade and Diamonds and Pearls in the same breath when the reason for those 2 albums being created were strikingly different. Prince has been in career free-fall since 1985. I don't need or want him to be anything but who or what he is. That's the difference between imagining all these successes, and assessing them for what they are.

Nobody cared about Lotus until it was 99 cents. Even then, who really cared? Were you around for Rave's promo? It was everywhere. The album was a total success, just not compared to Santana whose album was released at the same time with the same mindset but scored some of the best sales of all time. So, for the 3 months that Prince bothered to promote Rave, it sold half a mill in the US without the aid of drastic price slashing and without being a 3 disc, "Please listen to me PLEASE" approach.

[Edited 6/5/11 14:47pm]

Anyway, I still think it´s amazing that Lotus sold 500000 copies in a period where Prince is independent, without a big hit since 93, internet downloading competition and without a tour to promote it (only one appearance at Ellen show).

Spinlight said:

renfield said:

Exactly, Rave was heavily hyped and LF wasn't, yet they performed the same. So how can you say Rave was a success but Lotusflow3r wasn't? If anything, it's the exact opposite. Whether you like his current albums or not, he's put together 4 consecutive top 3 albums for the first time in his career (Musicology - #3, 3121 - #1, Planet Earth - #3, and LF - #2). And 3 of those albums went gold or platinum (and before anyone says it, Musicology sold over a million in stores WITHOUT the concert giveaways).

Who would you like him to be like? U2, Springsteen, Bon Jovi, REM, Madonna, Janet, MJ's posthumous releases...they all debut high, fail to produce any big hit singles, then sink off the charts. In the end, they may sell a million, or slightly less. The same is true of Prince. His current albums, in terms of the others who have been doing this as long as he has, perform the same way. Of course he's not as successful as he was 15-25 years ago. None of his contemporaries are.

He does it on his own terms, gets paid up front, and still lands high-charting albums. Commercially, he's been doing great since the 2004 'comeback.' And outside of Purple Rain and 1999, he was NEVER a huge seller anyway. Classics like Parade, SOTT, and Controversy? Only a million each in the US. Diamonds & Pearls sold 2 million. So to still be getting those gold plaques a decade into the 21st century is impressive. It doesn't matter if he's not wowing the hardcores or making legions of new fans. The man's doing quite well these days.

Again, you're comparing apples to oranges. Rave did extremely well given the climate in which it was released. Lotusflower was 99 cents shortly after its release and wasn't even released worldwide.

You bring up Parade and Diamonds and Pearls in the same breath when the reason for those 2 albums being created were strikingly different. Prince has been in career free-fall since 1985. I don't need or want him to be anything but who or what he is. That's the difference between imagining all these successes, and assessing them for what they are.

Nobody cared about Lotus until it was 99 cents. Even then, who really cared? Were you around for Rave's promo? It was everywhere. The album was a total success, just not compared to Santana whose album was released at the same time with the same mindset but scored some of the best sales of all time. So, for the 3 months that Prince bothered to promote Rave, it sold half a mill in the US without the aid of drastic price slashing and without being a 3 disc, "Please listen to me PLEASE" approach.

[Edited 6/5/11 14:47pm]

Of course I was around for the Rave promo. I've been a fan since '84, and I've followed the Billboard charts every week since December of 1989. You're arguing against yourself...Rave was blatantly patterned after Santana's "Supernatural" and Prince and Arista had that expectation for it. Remeber Clive Davis telling everyone TGRES was a sure-fire number one hit? Prince made the rounds and promoed the hell out of it, even pandering to Carson Daly on TRL. It was released during the busiest sales period of the year and what did it do? Debut at number 18 then free-fall, barely scraping gold. Prince had a tizzy and severed all ties with Arista and publicly blamed Clive Davis for the project's failure. "Give him time to deliver on his promise to deliver a couple of real hits to the top of the charts." Commercialy Rave was a disaster, and perceived as such by anyone paying attention. Prince thought he could still dominate the pop world in 1999 and I think he's now (wisely) realized that time is long passed.

Lotus came with no such expectations and debuted at number two...MONTHS before Target clearanced the inventory at 99 cents. This dismal career pattern you're trying to paint just doesn't exist. Emancipation, Rave, TRC...they all flopped or performed well below expectations. Musicology put him back in the top ten for the first time since The Gold Experience and every one of his studio albums since then has reached the top three. I'm not "imagining" any successes. LF shifted a few hundred thousand copies before the drastic price reduction. I'm just stating facts and numbers. It has nothing to do with my, or your, opinion of the artistic merit of any of these albums.

SPOOKYGAS said:

Vict0r said:

SOTT was $26.99 for me when I bought it from JB Hi-Fi in Sydney...

Be thanfull that U found a Prince album at any price in oZ, he aint no AC DC and the guy aint likely 2 be seen at the Swans game anytime soon!

JB stocks most of his releases - those that are still in print anyway.

renfield said:

Of course I was around for the Rave promo. I've been a fan since '84, and I've followed the Billboard charts every week since December of 1989. You're arguing against yourself...Rave was blatantly patterned after Santana's "Supernatural" and Prince and Arista had that expectation for it. Remeber Clive Davis telling everyone TGRES was a sure-fire number one hit? Prince made the rounds and promoed the hell out of it, even pandering to Carson Daly on TRL. It was released during the busiest sales period of the year and what did it do? Debut at number 18 then free-fall, barely scraping gold. Prince had a tizzy and severed all ties with Arista and publicly blamed Clive Davis for the project's failure. "Give him time to deliver on his promise to deliver a couple of real hits to the top of the charts." Commercialy Rave was a disaster, and perceived as such by anyone paying attention. Prince thought he could still dominate the pop world in 1999 and I think he's now (wisely) realized that time is long passed.

- I remember all the hype for Rave too. And it was clear that Prince wanted the same effect of Supernatural (but, different from Santana, you can barely hear the guests on Rave). He really was expecting it to be a big hit. I hope he realized that time passed (although sometimes I dont know if he releases some songs like Incense and Candles and Black Sweat expecting them to be hits or if he really likes them).

Lotus is a fantastic album too(at least lotuslower disc is). It crushes Lovesxy in my opinion. Its the only Prince album I have liked since Emancipation. I wish we could get more stuff like that.

Prince`s album sales the last years are quite good for an independent artist...

But the real reason people believe he isn`t successful anymore or not making music at all is

the absence of a hit single!! There is no visibility if you don`t have a strong hit single or radio hit....

It is true...Britney, Rihanna etc have hits worldwide, everytime you tune in radio you hear their songs...but they don`t sell that much more....

I hope one day Prince writes a big hit single again

renfield said:

Spinlight said:

Again, you're comparing apples to oranges. Rave did extremely well given the climate in which it was released. Lotusflower was 99 cents shortly after its release and wasn't even released worldwide.

You bring up Parade and Diamonds and Pearls in the same breath when the reason for those 2 albums being created were strikingly different. Prince has been in career free-fall since 1985. I don't need or want him to be anything but who or what he is. That's the difference between imagining all these successes, and assessing them for what they are.

Nobody cared about Lotus until it was 99 cents. Even then, who really cared? Were you around for Rave's promo? It was everywhere. The album was a total success, just not compared to Santana whose album was released at the same time with the same mindset but scored some of the best sales of all time. So, for the 3 months that Prince bothered to promote Rave, it sold half a mill in the US without the aid of drastic price slashing and without being a 3 disc, "Please listen to me PLEASE" approach.

[Edited 6/5/11 14:47pm]

Of course I was around for the Rave promo. I've been a fan since '84, and I've followed the Billboard charts every week since December of 1989. You're arguing against yourself...Rave was blatantly patterned after Santana's "Supernatural" and Prince and Arista had that expectation for it. Remeber Clive Davis telling everyone TGRES was a sure-fire number one hit? Prince made the rounds and promoed the hell out of it, even pandering to Carson Daly on TRL. It was released during the busiest sales period of the year and what did it do? Debut at number 18 then free-fall, barely scraping gold. Prince had a tizzy and severed all ties with Arista and publicly blamed Clive Davis for the project's failure. "Give him time to deliver on his promise to deliver a couple of real hits to the top of the charts." Commercialy Rave was a disaster, and perceived as such by anyone paying attention. Prince thought he could still dominate the pop world in 1999 and I think he's now (wisely) realized that time is long passed.

Lotus came with no such expectations and debuted at number two...MONTHS before Target clearanced the inventory at 99 cents. This dismal career pattern you're trying to paint just doesn't exist. Emancipation, Rave, TRC...they all flopped or performed well below expectations. Musicology put him back in the top ten for the first time since The Gold Experience and every one of his studio albums since then has reached the top three. I'm not "imagining" any successes. LF shifted a few hundred thousand copies before the drastic price reduction. I'm just stating facts and numbers. It has nothing to do with my, or your, opinion of the artistic merit of any of these albums.

Bong bong!

i was just making the point that the sales of prince's recent albums compared to the 80s is not as big as they are made out to be....

.

now...in the 80s..prince was far more in the public eye...he had hit singles every year...he had a lot of radio plays..he had a big record company behind him and good publicity....AND... remember...albums sold more in the 80s than they do now...

.

now compare this to now....prince not in the public eye as much..no hit singles....very little radio support for his new albums...no big record company behind him....little publicity...

.

.

lovesexy sold around 700,000 in the first year of release in the usa....it has since went to nearly a million in the usa

.

lotusflower has sold around 550,000 copies in the first year of release in the usa...

.

now lovesexy was the poorest selling album for prince in the states between 82 and 92....but i still think its remarkable that prince can get close to the sales of one of his landmark 80s albums without any real support...

.

i think this speaks volumes for his large hardcore fan base that has never really left him through all his ups and downs....this ..i believe..is down to one main thing....his huge musical talent....you cant ignore it...

.

and lotusflower (single disc) was a good prince album imo...

.

.

ps...i think spinlight mentioned that prince's career has been in freefall since 1985..???..

.

i find this comment from a long time fan strange...prince made a decision to release artwiad KNOWING that it would kill his huge sales figures in the usa...he didnt want to be a slave to huge sales and decided to follow his heart and make music for himself..not to get huge sales...

.

thats why i always find it strange that people say that prince was not happy with sales figures after purple rain...he was the one that made SURE he WASNT going to get huge sales again...i dont think prince has ever been that bothered about huge sales figures...he likes to sell well but not if it compromises his music.....the music has always been more important imo...he could easily have outsold everyone for years by releasing purple rain mark 2 but he didnt...he made an artistic statement and its to his eternal credit that he did....and just made me a bigger fan that i already was at that time...

.

.

.

.

[Edited 6/6/11 3:54am]

[Edited 6/6/11 5:08am]