TrevorAyer said:

blackbob said:

prince could release the greatest album of his career this year or next year...critics falling over themselves to gush about it but he would never have the impact or sales of what his albums in the 80s did because his time has past...it happens to everyone....

hmmm .. well lets look at musicology .. not the GREATEST ALBUM OF HIS CAREER in fact you might say it was more of a turning point between extremely embarassing and not that embarassing .. but not even one of his top 10 records by any standard.

but what happened? he's on the cover of rolling stone, he gets great reviews (4stars.. really?), his next record premiers at number one, his tour gets great reviews .. and all this over a mediocre record that simply isn't completely embarassing to listen to.

this is how much the public WANTS to embrace a truly great prince record. his age, relevance, record companies, current trends have NOTHING to do with his success. musicology was NOT a GREAT record at all, neither was 3121.

if prince were to release the greatest album of his career you can bet yer last dollar that he WILL be embraced .. everyone is so rooting for him and is equally puzzled that he can be so off the mark for soooo long.

.

.

i disagree...if prince released another ' sign o the times' ..it still wouldnt get much airplay because of his age, being an indie artist and just being out the loop for 15 years...if it aint getting played on the radio or tv...people aint gonna buy it in an great numbers and it will do what most modern prince albums do....sell well for a few weeks then drop like a stone...

.

the biggest push for a hit single that prince has had in the last 15 years was 'black sweat'...coming off the back of the sucess of the musicology tour...he shot a video and there was some good promotion for this single in the usa...it entered the hot 100 at 60 which is the best he has done in a long time but then it dropped back out the charts going no higher than that...

.

prince is just too old now and i dont think he will ever have a hit single again unless its a duet or something like that...the radio just wont play his new stuff enough to get a hit single...

.

he will continue to have top 10 albums as long as he wants but hit singles are gone...

trevor has to be the biggest troll i have ever seen on these forums. From his absurd statements about prince's guitar skills, the even more absurd statement of prince "failing" to do most genres well, its pretty obvious he is either trolling or he hates prince. Period. Anyone who claims that Prince has not played with a talented musician (other than sheila) for years is obviously someone with zero musical knowledge.

And 3121 was a great record. Many non fans were amazed at his live performance of Fury and really liked black sweat too. Critics really liked it and so did the vast majority of die hards.

Prince could come out with another purple rain type album with massive commercial potential but the radio stations WILL NEVER play it because prince went against the big record companies. Period.

[Edited 6/7/11 3:24am]

hhhhdmt said:

trevor has to be the biggest troll i have ever seen on these forums. From his absurd statements about prince's guitar skills, the even more absurd statement of prince "failing" to do most genres well, its pretty obvious he is either trolling or he hates prince. Period. Anyone who claims that Prince has not played with a talented musician (other than sheila) for years is obviously someone with zero musical knowledge.

And 3121 was a great record. Many non fans were amazed at his live performance of Fury and really liked black sweat too. Critics really liked it and so did the vast majority of die hards.

Prince could come out with another purple rain type album with massive commercial potential but the radio stations WILL NEVER play it because prince went against the big record companies. Period.

[Edited 6/7/11 3:24am]

ahh my stalker is here again .. please stop harrassing me

blackbob said:

TrevorAyer said:

hmmm .. well lets look at musicology .. not the GREATEST ALBUM OF HIS CAREER in fact you might say it was more of a turning point between extremely embarassing and not that embarassing .. but not even one of his top 10 records by any standard.

but what happened? he's on the cover of rolling stone, he gets great reviews (4stars.. really?), his next record premiers at number one, his tour gets great reviews .. and all this over a mediocre record that simply isn't completely embarassing to listen to.

this is how much the public WANTS to embrace a truly great prince record. his age, relevance, record companies, current trends have NOTHING to do with his success. musicology was NOT a GREAT record at all, neither was 3121.

if prince were to release the greatest album of his career you can bet yer last dollar that he WILL be embraced .. everyone is so rooting for him and is equally puzzled that he can be so off the mark for soooo long.

.

.

i disagree...if prince released another ' sign o the times' ..it still wouldnt get much airplay because of his age, being an indie artist and just being out the loop for 15 years...if it aint getting played on the radio or tv...people aint gonna buy it in an great numbers and it will do what most modern prince albums do....sell well for a few weeks then drop like a stone...

.

the biggest push for a hit single that prince has had in the last 15 years was 'black sweat'...coming off the back of the sucess of the musicology tour...he shot a video and there was some good promotion for this single in the usa...it entered the hot 100 at 60 which is the best he has done in a long time but then it dropped back out the charts going no higher than that...

.

prince is just too old now and i dont think he will ever have a hit single again unless its a duet or something like that...the radio just wont play his new stuff enough to get a hit single...

.

he will continue to have top 10 albums as long as he wants but hit singles are gone...

well see thats my point .. i don't consider "black sweat" to be a great prince song, but i did hear it played on my local pop radio and of course 3121 hit number 1 .. but the fact remains it is not one of his greatest records .. sign o the times on the other hand WAS a great record .. and while it may not have sold purple rain numbers, it still sold very respectably and is still very highly rated among critics .. it may or may not be able to push a single, certainly not on the pop charts next to all the annoying hip hop, but the record would sell great because its a great record .. in fact the song sign o the times is such an odd song its surprising it got any airplay in any era .. but its just that good .. prince is still on the map .. i cant compare "black sweat" to "sign o the times" or "fury" to "if i was your girlfriend" .. there is not comparison .. SOTT is miles ahead of 3121 and as I said .. if the public will embrace 3121 or Musicology on the level that they did and considering both are sub par to SOTT by a long shot, I could easily see prince selling in the millions with a truly great record that can stand next to his other classic records ..

TrevorAyer said:

hhhhdmt said:

trevor has to be the biggest troll i have ever seen on these forums. From his absurd statements about prince's guitar skills, the even more absurd statement of prince "failing" to do most genres well, its pretty obvious he is either trolling or he hates prince. Period. Anyone who claims that Prince has not played with a talented musician (other than sheila) for years is obviously someone with zero musical knowledge.

And 3121 was a great record. Many non fans were amazed at his live performance of Fury and really liked black sweat too. Critics really liked it and so did the vast majority of die hards.

Prince could come out with another purple rain type album with massive commercial potential but the radio stations WILL NEVER play it because prince went against the big record companies. Period.

[Edited 6/7/11 3:24am]

ahh my stalker is here again .. please stop harrassing me

please stop lying and trolling, then i will stop "harrassing" you.

TrevorAyer said:

njin said:

When it comes to Technical skills only Dr. Fink and and Brownmark were amazing in The Revolution imo. Pre Revolution had Dez Dickerson and a Andre Cymone that was able to play bass like Prince. LovesexySOTT band had Sheila E on drums. Eric Leeds were there for quite some while. But overall his band was never 100% on the technical level. The creative level is another thing. The band he has now is technically probably overall one of his best. Only problem is that it sounds like extremly over polished lounge versions of the old classics. Yet I love it, and it's better than most.

to be clear .. i think prince band is stretching well outside of their primary element, style and sound when attempting to play prince music that imitates his old sound .. the minor personality touches to each of the songs detract even more from theme of almost sounding like the original recordings .. and i feel that they do much better when given more obscure tunes which they tend to rearrange more freely and shine in the style of music they are all clearly gifted at .. it sounds more natural but far from the 'prince' sound that they perform at the arena shows

prince should either work with those who shaped the old sound or dive right into the new sound of this group .. the middle ground as is, just mucks it up imo

well written, I feel a bit the same. But it doesn't stop me from paying for a ticket to his concert in Oslo, Norway 24th of july. I know I will be happy to hear him again, and no matter how much better his music could have been, it's still better than most. Bjork and Parliament are probably one of the few bands that I've seen live that can give this man and his band some competition.

I'd be asking for my money back. I'm not a David Bowie hardcore fan, so these songs just wouldn't cut it for me. Prince is doing what the majority wants. People want to hear hits, so he plays them. He throws in a couple for the hardcores just about every show. I think its a perfect way to please everyone. At the concert in NC, in my section only me and 2 other women were screaming and jumping when he sang Elixer, so that's not a good combination.

Now if he has out a new album, I think he should play just about every song from the new album and mix in the hits. What he needs to stop doing is playing boring cover songs. Of all the great songs out there, he could pick some better ones if he just HAD to play some covers. But honestly, why play cover songs, when he can just play rare songs of his own and people would be just as wowed. Especially some of his fun songs that he hasn't done in awhile like...Acknowledge Me or Thieves in the Temple. That would make people who don't know the song seek it out.

I must admit, some Prince songs NEVER get old though. Purple Rain, Kiss, Adore, and Let's Work are great no matter how many times you've heard them! A concert w/o Purple Rain or Kiss would be...scary. Prince IS Purple Rain!!

blackbob said:

.

here is the setlist :

.

the wedding

you've been around

outside

hallo spaceboy

we prick you

little wonder

dead man walking

thursdays child

the dreamers

slip away

cactus

new killer star

lets dance

.

.

ziggy stardust

.

.

TrevorAyer said:

blackbob said:

prince could release the greatest album of his career this year or next year...critics falling over themselves to gush about it but he would never have the impact or sales of what his albums in the 80s did because his time has past...it happens to everyone....

hmmm .. well lets look at musicology .. not the GREATEST ALBUM OF HIS CAREER in fact you might say it was more of a turning point between extremely embarassing and not that embarassing .. but not even one of his top 10 records by any standard.

but what happened? he's on the cover of rolling stone, he gets great reviews (4stars.. really?), his next record premiers at number one, his tour gets great reviews .. and all this over a mediocre record that simply isn't completely embarassing to listen to.

this is how much the public WANTS to embrace a truly great prince record. his age, relevance, record companies, current trends have NOTHING to do with his success. musicology was NOT a GREAT record at all, neither was 3121.

if prince were to release the greatest album of his career you can bet yer last dollar that he WILL be embraced .. everyone is so rooting for him and is equally puzzled that he can be so off the mark for soooo long.

Musicology is a GREAT cd!!! Love it to pieces and non Prince fans seem to dig a good bit of the songs. I blast that album all the time on weekend!!! The problem isn't Prince, its the people listening. They want him to be something he was in the 80s. He has grown, he has changed, he is who he wants to be. People won't embrace anything new he does b/c they automatically have the mindset, "he aint cursing, he aint half naked, he's a JW, so it must not be good." Prince has changed with the times, most artist do that as the years go by, fans just need to catch up.

All the 80s great have transformed their musical tastes, If you're relevant for more than 5 years, that's bound to happen. MJ, Madonna, etc. all changed their music and remain relevant. And with great success too might I add. Prince's issue with selling records has always been the same...."he's marches to the beat of his own drum, no someone elses." He don't play the game like he did before, he does what he wants to do and doesn't care if he sales cds or concert tickets, etc.

hhhhdmt said:

blackbob said:

ok...i would just like to clear this one one up once and for all....this... '' but prince keeps playing the hits '' crap that that we are constantly hearing....

.

now...say you bought a ticket to someone you like...whoever it was..you maybe had a few albums but not all the artists stuff...a fan but not hardcore...lets take david bowie as an example here...

.

so david bowie is playing a few big outdoor concerts and a few festivals...30 to 50 thousand people.......

.

here is the setlist :

.

the wedding

you've been around

outside

hallo spaceboy

we prick you

little wonder

dead man walking

thursdays child

the dreamers

slip away

cactus

new killer star

lets dance

.

.

ziggy stardust

.

.

how would you feel going to see david bowie and him playing that setlist in front of 30000 fans who mainly know the hits and thats all ??

.

it would go down like a lead ballon...i consider myself a big bowie fan but i wouldnt recognise half the songs here...i would leave being annoyed that he didnt play at least half the set with big hits...

.

if any big artist is playing a big concert...they have to play mainly hits because thats what people there want to hear...and that applys to prince as well...this goes for big arena shows as well..

.

if you want to hear prince playing more album tracks, obsure numbers, extended versions or whatever he fancies...you need to try and see him at a small show like the 'one nite alone' tour he did a few years ago ..or an aftershow....that is the show for the hardcore fan who doesnt want to hear the hits again...

.

.

.

me...yes i would rather see a small intimate show and hear him play the less well known songs but ..for godness sake...can we please stop moaning about prince playing the hits...his concerts are always worth seeing regardless and just be thankful he has soo many hits rather than most other bands playing the same ten hit songs for the rest of their lives...

.

.

The problem is he never does these small tours anymore. He is missing out on a lot of money.

Shockedelicus said:

hhhhdmt said:

- If prince is not relevant anymore, than Lotus3flowr would not have been #2 WITHOUT major label support. And if he is a "nostalgia act", than so are most artists his age. When was the last time Bowie, Stevie Wonder, Joni Mitchell etc even released an album? Why does he get so much criticism, simply because he continues to make music while other artists his age rarely do or don't release any music alltogethar?

- I agree Prince can vary his set lists more, and play a rare song from his back catalogue every once in a while (for eg crucial, dance electric, dolphin etc). But the hits are here to stay. He has to make a living and he needs the big crowds. What he can do is vary his hits setlist a bit more- for example play 7, TMBGITW, etc a bit more and change some of the arrangements (although he has already done so)

- Prince could simply release a dvd of a great aftershow or something like that- play rare songs from his catalogue, sell it on the internet (without any website fees, just sell the thing for say $12 for whoever wants to buy it). Unfortunately he has never been good at promotion or releasing high quality dvd's.

[Edited 6/4/11 7:03am]

Lotusflow3r did so well because of the hype built by the 3-in-one gimmick and the usual "return to form" rumors, so all the buzz went flat right after it came out. Doesn't sound like a hit to me. Bowie clearly means to leave his album canon where it is. Have you heard Reality? It's clearly a goodbye album. Prince is only damaging his legacy by building hype and disappointing his last handful of fans over and over. Bowie still has his heroic status because he knew where to stop.

Well not all fans are disappointed, plenty of die hards like lotusflow3r (the single disc). The MLP sound was disappointing but Lotus is very good. Prince isnt damaging his legacy, he will always be judged by his best work. What do you want him to do, retire? Plenty of us want him to continue, thats why we are here.

[Edited 6/7/11 8:55am]

TrevorAyer said:

blackbob said:

.

.

i disagree...if prince released another ' sign o the times' ..it still wouldnt get much airplay because of his age, being an indie artist and just being out the loop for 15 years...if it aint getting played on the radio or tv...people aint gonna buy it in an great numbers and it will do what most modern prince albums do....sell well for a few weeks then drop like a stone...

.

the biggest push for a hit single that prince has had in the last 15 years was 'black sweat'...coming off the back of the sucess of the musicology tour...he shot a video and there was some good promotion for this single in the usa...it entered the hot 100 at 60 which is the best he has done in a long time but then it dropped back out the charts going no higher than that...

.

prince is just too old now and i dont think he will ever have a hit single again unless its a duet or something like that...the radio just wont play his new stuff enough to get a hit single...

.

he will continue to have top 10 albums as long as he wants but hit singles are gone...

well see thats my point .. i don't consider "black sweat" to be a great prince song, but i did hear it played on my local pop radio and of course 3121 hit number 1 .. but the fact remains it is not one of his greatest records .. sign o the times on the other hand WAS a great record .. and while it may not have sold purple rain numbers, it still sold very respectably and is still very highly rated among critics .. it may or may not be able to push a single, certainly not on the pop charts next to all the annoying hip hop, but the record would sell great because its a great record .. in fact the song sign o the times is such an odd song its surprising it got any airplay in any era .. but its just that good .. prince is still on the map .. i cant compare "black sweat" to "sign o the times" or "fury" to "if i was your girlfriend" .. there is not comparison .. SOTT is miles ahead of 3121 and as I said .. if the public will embrace 3121 or Musicology on the level that they did and considering both are sub par to SOTT by a long shot, I could easily see prince selling in the millions with a truly great record that can stand next to his other classic records ..

You can't compare SOTT to 3121 b/c they are 2 TOTALLY DIFFERENT type of albums. The only thing similar is that Prince recorded them both. And the fact that Prince hasn't done much to play those 3121 songs to create fond memories like SOTT. If 3121 had been released by anybody else other than Prince, it'd be all over the #1 spot and winning awards. But it wasn't and Prince wasn't caring about pushing it too much.

The truth of the matter is 3121 is a GREAT album. Different strokes for different folks of course, b/c there were plenty of people who DID NOT like SOTT. How good an album is is half based on album sales, and the other half on opinions. Prince could have had top 10 or top 20 hits with a few songs off of 3121 had he done what other artists do with new albums....shoot/release vids, play songs like everywhere, tour promotion, etc. Lolita, Love, Fury, Black Sweat, The Dance could have all done well with the right promotion. Those songs are much better than stuff that was on the radio when 3121 came out.

Musicology should have been bigger, Prince promoted it, but not enough IMO. PE, Lotus, and 2010 could have all produced at least 2 top 10 hits for him had he done what he did back in the PR days. But he didnt...

But Bowie has played setlists comparable to that for larger audiences. He did that a lot during the late-90s. Maybe there were a few more hits than that, but the shows mainly consisted of the cuts from 1.Outside and Earthling at the time when they came out. He did almost every song from Earthling even during his 50th Birthday concert. He got criticized a lot for it back then. His last tour also had stuff like "The Motel", "Hallo Spaceboy", "I'm Afraid Of Americans", "Fantastic Voyage" and "Sister Midnight" regularly on the setlist as well. It was hardly just the hits.

Timmy84 said:

People are never satisfied.

So True ... So True ... I would love for him to pick other songs on the albums he plays at live shows but, we all know that the AFTER-SHOW is where to be. THAT'S where you'll hear songs he doesn't play at a W2A show, for example.

The Hits will always be played. The Casual fans wanna hear it and the Hardcore 'sometimes' don't mind it but, like me, I prefer a After-Show play list.

While we are on the point of releasing great albums...I see ppl bringing up sale of sign o the times etc and comparing.

I've spent 20 years in the music industry and we unfortunately can no longer compare anything any artists do to the past. Even if P was to release an album that's as great as Purple Rain, Sign O the times and Dirtymind combined it won't sell 1% like it used to.

We are in a world were ppl think it's totally cool to steal music day in and day out. So the playing field is extremly different now.

A few weeks back the no 2 spot to the no 10 spot on Billboard was 50,000 units combined!!

[Edited 6/7/11 12:46pm]

Today is about Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga...Prince's days of being a hitmaker are gone, esp without a big record company behind him. It doesn't matter how good of a song he releases..he just doesn't matter.

Even more than ever, the most popular artists are manufactured by the huge multinational conglomerate's and their music divisions. You can have no talent and be a huge star if they want you to be and think they can profit from it.

And most of the hit songs by the major "artists" are written by dudes in Sweden or something..they write most of the big pop hits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Martin

^ 5 My thoughts exactly!

MarquessMarq said:

Timmy84 said:

People are never satisfied.

Exactly.

You said a mouthful. Don't hate, just appreciate.

FunkiestOne said:

Today is about Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga...Prince's days of being a hitmaker are gone, esp without a big record company behind him. It doesn't matter how good of a song he releases..he just doesn't matter.

Even more than ever, the most popular artists are manufactured by the huge multinational conglomerate's and their music divisions. You can have no talent and be a huge star if they want you to be and think they can profit from it.

And most of the hit songs by the major "artists" are written by dudes in Sweden or something..they write most of the big pop hits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Martin

thats my point....prince could release the greatest most innovative song in 20 years and it STILL wouldnt be a hit because his time as gone as a hit maker....

.

and i also didnt think that black sweat was a good single...but i dont think it would have made much of a difference...