'Dinner With Delores' is one of the most under rated songs by Prince imo, but for some reason, I always hear negative stuff from others about this song & album. Now I will admit, this is not one of Prince's best albums by any means. But here's my question:

If 'Dinner With Delores' & 'I Like It There' was released by an Alt. Rock Band during this period, would they have been Hits?

Now this then made me think:

If "Chaos & Disorder" [with only the rock songs] was released by an Alt. Rock Band, would it still have been dogged by critics?

Please, open your "Dirty Hearts" & tell me what you think....

i dont think its that amazing, i really like the title track, and i also like Zanalee, I Like it there, the same december but its not an incredible piece of work IMO. If someone not named Prince had released it, i think it would probably get more praise but i dont think it would be regarded as a masterpiece.

not all critics disliked it either. Robert christgau gave it a good review

http://www.robertchristga...hp?id=1095

Chaos and Disorder [Warner Bros., 1996]

Always a slippery devil, he's damn near vaporized commercially over the past few years, as has his promotional budget, basically because he's reached that certain age--way too familiar for ye olde shock of the new, way too boyish for intimations of immortality. So it's understandable that what's sworn to be "the last original material recorded by [File Under Prince] 4 warner brothers records" has been ignored all around. But anybody expecting a kissoff or a throwaway radically underestimates his irrepressible musicality. Apropos of nothing, here's a guitar album for your earhole, enhanced by a fresh if not shocking array of voices and trick sounds and cluttered now and then by horns. Theme song: "I Rock, Therefore I Am." And right, WEA, it wouldn't have been a hit even with some muscle behind it. A-

[Edited 6/1/11 6:33am]

I think it's victim of Prince's own sabotage.

hhhhdmt said:

i dont think its that amazing, i really like the title track, and i also like Zanalee, I Like it there, the same december but its not an incredible piece of work IMO. If someone not named Prince had released it, i think it would probably get more praise but i dont think it would be regarded as a masterpiece.

But see, my point is, it seemed to have got bad reviews simply because Prince released it. People weren't used to Prince doing much Rock music at this point of his career & I think that played a big part. I wouldn't say it was amazing either, but I still think if some Alt. rock group would have released it, it would have gotten far more praise than it did...

NouveauDance said:

I think it's victim of Prince's own sabotage.

Maybe, but that wasn't my question.

Tittypants said:

hhhhdmt said:

i dont think its that amazing, i really like the title track, and i also like Zanalee, I Like it there, the same december but its not an incredible piece of work IMO. If someone not named Prince had released it, i think it would probably get more praise but i dont think it would be regarded as a masterpiece.

But see, my point is, it seemed to have got bad reviews simply because Prince released it. People weren't used to Prince doing much Rock music at this point of his career & I think that played a big part. I wouldn't say it was amazing either, but I still think if some Alt. rock group would have released it, it would have gotten far more praise than it did...

maybe, although the gold experience had some rock and it got good reviews. I agree that if someone not named prince had released it, it'd be more highly regarded

NouveauDance said:

I think it's victim of Prince's own sabotage.

So true. He didn't seem that happy about promoting it in the performances he did. All of the interviews I remember, he spoke ill of the industry, so he did sabotage the project.

I LOVE this album. Its actually my favorite album of his up there with Purple Rain. Then again I dont care for the R&B bull he plays. I pretty much only like his rock stuff. I noticed most Prince fans like his R&B and funk which is probally why this album is so hated by fans. For me its the opposite!! Every so often he makes a cd I like and this is one of them!! Lotus flower is another one I relaly like too!! Out of all of his album there are really only a handful I like and those seem to be the rock oriented one like Chaos. Rock on Prince!! I know he has to do the R&B stuff since that what people like him for but man..dude need to release some more rock n roll for us rock fans!!

C&D didn't suffer from being a Prince album. Prince only put it out to get out of Warner Bros so of course he wasn't into promoting it. I love "Dinner with Delores" too. The video was one of my favorite Prince videos too.

not bad for a bunch of outtakes but pretty boring overall. I love "I will" but otherwise if released by anyone else it probably would have never seen print.

Chaos and Disorder (along with The Hits 1 and The Hits 2) was my very first Prince album and I have loved it since the day I got it. Side one is the best sequence of rock music that Prince has ever released. Side two loses a little bit of steam but over the years I have even grown to appreciate Scrap D. and Steppa Ranks.

I completely agree that if a new artist had released that album that it would have been greated with overwhelmingly positive reviews but I don't know if it would have been a hit.

I like Dinner with Delores. Everything else is just mediocre stuff.

Maybe critics would have felt a little obligated, to be some what mutual, if this were the work of a new band/artist, but the fact that this was Prince hmmm...i feel they like a lot of ppl were disappointed. But even if so, this would not have been considered great work or a masterpeice, even for a upcoming rock band @ the time, or any artist. Just not well put together

ItsGonnaBLonely said:

Maybe critics would have felt a little obligated, to be some what mutual, if this were the work of a new band/artist, but the fact that this was Prince hmmm...i feel they like a lot of ppl were disappointed. But even if so, this would not have been considered great work or a masterpeice, even for a upcoming rock band @ the time, or any artist. Just not well put together

I could not be more vociferous in my disagreement with you. If Chaos and Disorder had been the debut album by a new singer/band I believe it would have been massively praised. I don't necessarily think that it would have been a huge seller but I think the critics would have loved it.

I really dig "Dinner with Delores" and "I Will" (especially the absolutely beautiful transition from "Into the Light"), but aside from that I think C&D is pretty unremarkable.

If it all were released by another artist, would it have garnered more positive attention? I dunno. Possibly. But a cheesy title like "I Rock, Therefore I Am" certainly would remain a liability.

jonylawson said:

This must be a newbie First things first to the newbie poster Dinner with has never had hate on here Its a brilliant highly regarded single Secondly again incorrect received wisdom the album has never been "hated"upon People just dont love it Theres a difference.

I wasn't really referring to people on Prince.org [this IS a Prince fansite. Therefore it's going to be people here who like this album], I was referring to real magazine reviews & peoples thoughts at the time. I bought this album on cassette from Media Play when it first came out & when I played it for grown folks who loved what Prince had done, THEY HATED IT! They didn't like the rock sound of it. This album IS regarded as one of Prince's worst albums also a lot of people [outside of this site].

Maybe because we're from different areas, we got different opinions or something. But so far, you're the only one saying this.

Btw My name may be new, but I've been here before....

rialb said:

ItsGonnaBLonely said:

Maybe critics would have felt a little obligated, to be some what mutual, if this were the work of a new band/artist, but the fact that this was Prince hmmm...i feel they like a lot of ppl were disappointed. But even if so, this would not have been considered great work or a masterpeice, even for a upcoming rock band @ the time, or any artist. Just not well put together

I could not be more vociferous in my disagreement with you. If Chaos and Disorder had been the debut album by a new singer/band I believe it would have been massively praised. I don't necessarily think that it would have been a huge seller but I think the critics would have loved it.

Thank you! Somebody who finally sees my point!This album is a victim of being a Prince album....I guarantee it!

rialb said:

ItsGonnaBLonely said:

Maybe critics would have felt a little obligated, to be some what mutual, if this were the work of a new band/artist, but the fact that this was Prince hmmm...i feel they like a lot of ppl were disappointed. But even if so, this would not have been considered great work or a masterpeice, even for a upcoming rock band @ the time, or any artist. Just not well put together

I could not be more vociferous in my disagreement with you. If Chaos and Disorder had been the debut album by a new singer/band I believe it would have been massively praised. I don't necessarily think that it would have been a huge seller but I think the critics would have loved it.

Absolutely. I always maintain that if a new boy on the block dropped 3121 or the whole Lotusflow3r package....people would lose their minds. It would be the "genius Prince should be releasing". It would be the critics darling.

As for C&D, Spin magazine actually said something similar at the time, they said if anyone else released C&D, it'd be considered genius.

WetDream said:

rialb said:

I could not be more vociferous in my disagreement with you. If Chaos and Disorder had been the debut album by a new singer/band I believe it would have been massively praised. I don't necessarily think that it would have been a huge seller but I think the critics would have loved it.

Absolutely. I always maintain that if a new boy on the block dropped 3121 or the whole Lotusflow3r package....people would lose their minds. It would be the "genius Prince should be releasing". It would be the critics darling.

As for C&D, Spin magazine actually said something similar at the time, they said if anyone else released C&D, it'd be considered genius.

That is exactly my point. I feel certain albums that Prince has dropped have been victims of being Prince albums.....

I've always loved 'Dinner With Delores'

Compared to what was out there in rock music up to 1996 this album would not have been praised in the rock scene. Get real, people!

I think EVERY post-1995 Prince album suffers from being a Prince album

If D'Angelo, André 3000 or Raphael Saadiq had released any of these albums, they'd have been praised like the messiah

"My only competition is myself in the past"

Tittypants said:

'Dinner With Delores' is one of the most under rated songs by Prince imo, but for some reason, I always hear negative stuff from others about this song & album. Now I will admit, this is not one of Prince's best albums by any means. But here's my question:

If 'Dinner With Delores' & 'I Like It There' was released by an Alt. Rock Band during this period, would they have been Hits?

Now this then made me think:

If "Chaos & Disorder" [with only the rock songs] was released by an Alt. Rock Band, would it still have been dogged by critics?

Please, open your "Dirty Hearts" & tell me what you think....

Would it be a hit for anybody else? I think that is true with loads of Prince stuff. I was in the gym the other day and they had that J Lo song on and it depressed me because you've got her singing this silly song and opens it up about "A new generation..." and I was thinnking that if Prince released something like this he would be slated and yet he releases generic stuff like Dance 4 Me that if the Black Eyed Peas released it would definitiivel chart even tho many of us on here would probably didmiss it. I think Prince should start dishing out his songs to others to sing I think there are so many tracks that people would buy if sung by somebody else

databank said:

I think EVERY post-1995 Prince album suffers from being a Prince album

If D'Angelo, André 3000 or Raphael Saadiq had released any of these albums, they'd have been praised like the messiah

"My only competition is myself in the past"

Yeah. We'll be trashing it if it was Prince but the others, it would be a masterpiece. Least I can admit it. It's a double standard.

Its a great album! & it rocks!!!If some people havnt or dont want 2 give it a chance or time of day then thats there loss!!!

It has some high points (Dinner with Delores, Zanalee, Had U) and some horrendous low points (I Rock Therefore I Am, Right the Wrong), but I think what it suffers from the most is being so obviously a throwaway - Prince didn't like it, Warner Bros didn't like it. And if someone isn't passionate about what they've created they will naturally instil a sense of negativity any time they talk about it.

If someone else had created it, I think it would still be a 3/5 album, but the high points would've been more celebrated. However, bearing in mind his history and his potential, it will always suffer in comparison to previous work.