What if he took Dirty Mind a step further with a similar album but a bit more punk rockish? I'm thinking the outtake Tick Tick Bang, Something In The Water, the outtake Irresistable Bitch, Sister, Broken, the punkish version of When Doves Cry, maybe an uptempo version of It in a rocknroll style? What would you think about Prince doing a more punk oriented album? And do you think studying punk rock was important inspiration to his persona on stage and in studio? Husker Du was a Minneapolis band with quite some similarities to Prince. I'm interrested in hearing people's opinion on his punk influence. Personally I know he had the capacity of creating the most amasing punk oriented album ever. But never did.

thing is, Prince really only does Prince music.

He does not really ever do classic genres of music, though he hints at them all the time

NDRU said:

thing is, Prince really only does Prince music.

He does not really ever do classic genres of music, though he hints at them all the time

That's true. But some will say he's no matter how many genres, basically funking up any genre he s trying to do. So he is always a bit funk. Though he's also always a bit of everything else. But some songs tends to lean more towards one genre than the other. The Work Pt. 1 is basically a James Brown funk song. Head is funk, but also new wave. His Jamie Starr sound is very much merging mainly rnb, funk and new wave.

His style back then was a mixture of punk, new wave, funk, soul and electronic music to me. I couldn't see him doing one full genre (unlike when he does pop ballads or soul numbers).

njin said:

NDRU said:

thing is, Prince really only does Prince music.

He does not really ever do classic genres of music, though he hints at them all the time

That's true. But some will say he's no matter how many genres, basically funking up any genre he s trying to do. So he is always a bit funk. Though he's also always a bit of everything else. But some songs tends to lean more towards one genre than the other. The Work Pt. 1 is basically a James Brown funk song. Head is funk, but also new wave. His Jamie Starr sound is very much merging mainly rnb, funk and new wave.

yes, certainly when he does funk & R&B it's closer to the classic style,

But even The Work is a lot different from a James Brown song because it's not as repetitive, he sings it in a totally different style, and it's about religious duty

So a song might almost fit into a genre, but then it is tweaked because prince is a weirdo!

Some of his R&B stuff & pop ballads are pretty straight, though, as Timmy said, but mostly it's just Prince.

i think prince could pull off something punk .. but i dont trust that he wouldn't just use his usual funk and r+b musicians and be satisfied that it was good enough ... he would have to hire way outside his usual musician pool .. get a band that can really make a racket .. replacements and bob dylan were from mineapolis so theres lotsa punky attitude for sure

TrevorAyer said:

i think prince could pull off something punk .. but i dont trust that he wouldn't just use his usual funk and r+b musicians and be satisfied that it was good enough ... he would have to hire way outside his usual musician pool .. get a band that can really make a racket .. replacements and bob dylan were from mineapolis so theres lotsa punky attitude for sure

It would be interresting to hear Dirty Mind era Prince collabo with Husker Du. Prince only doing vocals and lead guitar.

check out from 5:24 how much it sounds like the piano on Purple Rain. I bet they were fans of each other

TrevorAyer said:

i think prince could pull off something punk .. but i dont trust that he wouldn't just use his usual funk and r+b musicians and be satisfied that it was good enough ... he would have to hire way outside his usual musician pool .. get a band that can really make a racket .. replacements and bob dylan were from mineapolis so theres lotsa punky attitude for sure

I think Michael Bland toured with Paul Westerberg after playing with Prince

yeah but didn't michael bland also tour behind nick jonas? bob mould could really add some nice noise to whatever prince might have in mind .. i'm not a fan of bland when prince goes into his rock mode .. its a bit too clean for my taste .. and for a real punky raw sounding record

TrevorAyer said:

i think prince could pull off something punk ..

Something that sounded like punk, that resembled punk probably. But lets not forget that punk was about more than just a band that could make lots of noise, punk was an attitude.

TrevorAyer said:

yeah but didn't michael bland also tour behind nick jonas? bob mould could really add some nice noise to whatever prince might have in mind .. i'm not a fan of bland when prince goes into his rock mode .. its a bit too clean for my taste .. and for a real punky raw sounding record

True, and that was Westerberg, not 1984 era Replacements

Prince has never done punk. Nothing on that record or even about that record is punk except maybe the artwork. If you played Dirty Mind at any party thrown by punks, you would get beat up.

It's cute and all, but the myth that Dirty Mind is punk is like the myth that "Jack U Off" and "Horny Toad" are rockabilly or that Rainbow Children is jazz.

Spinlight said:

Prince has never done punk. Nothing on that record or even about that record is punk except maybe the artwork. If you played Dirty Mind at any party thrown by punks, you would get beat up.

It's cute and all, but the myth that Dirty Mind is punk is like the myth that "Jack U Off" and "Horny Toad" are rockabilly or that Rainbow Children is jazz.

haha, I know that it isn't punk in it's pure form. However, punk was a reaction to technical show off flashy music at the time. People were sick of the artsy stuff, and needed some "real" attitude and primitive music. As a genre, Prince is not punk at all. But his attitude has punk written all over it, and songs like Tick Tick Bang certainly has parts which are leaning very much towards punk. If you loop the beginning, alot of people would believe it was punk. However it's far more technical and produced, plus the song has parts that is alot more funky etc. But saying that Prince has no punk in him is bullshit. I never said that Dirty Mind was punk either, I just used it as an example of a type of album not over polished that would be interesting to hear something similar to, but in a more punk rock oriented form, as we all know he was capable of pulling. Him doing pure punk would be too boring to him and us. Cause we know his music is so much more than that.

njin said:

Spinlight said:

Prince has never done punk. Nothing on that record or even about that record is punk except maybe the artwork. If you played Dirty Mind at any party thrown by punks, you would get beat up.

It's cute and all, but the myth that Dirty Mind is punk is like the myth that "Jack U Off" and "Horny Toad" are rockabilly or that Rainbow Children is jazz.

haha, I know that it isn't punk in it's pure form. However, punk was a reaction to technical show off flashy music at the time. People were sick of the artsy stuff, and needed some "real" attitude and primitive music. As a genre, Prince is not punk at all. But his attitude has punk written all over it, and songs like Tick Tick Bang certainly has parts which are leaning very much towards punk. If you loop the beginning, alot of people would believe it was punk. However it's far more technical and produced, plus the song has parts that is alot more funky etc. But saying that Prince has no punk in him is bullshit. I never said that Dirty Mind was punk either, I just used it as an example of a type of album not over polished that would be interesting to hear something similar to, but in a more punk rock oriented form, as we all know he was capable of pulling. Him doing pure punk would be too boring to him and us. Cause we know his music is so much more than that.

That's just it. There's nothing Punk about Prince. Prince is a brat. He can cop someone's image and put his own twist on it pretty well. That's his MO. But Prince has been living large for 30 years, he ain't a lick of Punk.

Spinlight said:

njin said:

haha, I know that it isn't punk in it's pure form. However, punk was a reaction to technical show off flashy music at the time. People were sick of the artsy stuff, and needed some "real" attitude and primitive music. As a genre, Prince is not punk at all. But his attitude has punk written all over it, and songs like Tick Tick Bang certainly has parts which are leaning very much towards punk. If you loop the beginning, alot of people would believe it was punk. However it's far more technical and produced, plus the song has parts that is alot more funky etc. But saying that Prince has no punk in him is bullshit. I never said that Dirty Mind was punk either, I just used it as an example of a type of album not over polished that would be interesting to hear something similar to, but in a more punk rock oriented form, as we all know he was capable of pulling. Him doing pure punk would be too boring to him and us. Cause we know his music is so much more than that.

That's just it. There's nothing Punk about Prince. Prince is a brat. He can cop someone's image and put his own twist on it pretty well. That's his MO. But Prince has been living large for 30 years, he ain't a lick of Punk.

I give up, haha. Now I have to start a band and keep going what he left and could have done in that period, hehe. Cause there's something not discovered yet about that combination that we got a taste of back then. WHen Prince started using the linn drum, he went in a synth heavy direction, and noone picked up on the other road he didn't pick. D'Angelo wanted to do something like dirty mind, but in his soul style, the raw and edgy sound nobody picked up after Controversy and his Jaime Starr sound. IF The Times first two albums, Controversy and Dirty Mind are the "acoustic" drum period of Jamie Starr. Merge this with something more heavy and raw... and this is something I've not heard.

i would agree that prince has gotten further from his punkness .. but there is some very raw and brazen material on dirty mind .. and the rude boy and dez dickerson influence definately had some punk roots .. more new wave .. like blondie .. siouxie sioux .. cindi lauper .. talking heads .. none of them are really punk but they kinda are at the same time .. i enjoyed imagining the replacements 'sorry ma' era hitting dirty mind or when u were mine in a sloppy punk cover and i bet it would sound good .. i dont think his band at the time even with dez was capable of pulling off the punk sound but they got closer than any of his other bands for sure .. if prince decided his superficial and materialistic lifestyle was kind of bullshit, i could see him pulling out something with attitude .. and throw a decent set of punk musicians in the mix .. the kind that can only play like 5 notes .. mixed with some clever prince chord changes and i think there is some potential .. but alas its not likely

Prince was heavily influenced by the punk/new wave crossover scene.. You can't watch the early videos and deny that.

It's doubtful he was well versed in any of it, but you can tell he was exposed enough to make fashion of it. You can hear an old song like Big Star's "Kangaroo" that was a major influence on a lot of experimental rock music, and wonder if Prince had a girlfriend that played the song for him once.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP2t6flTmyY

Then there's a band like Suicide, I bet he never heard them, but who knows...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRcHi5Nasn4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCRTCqgAkfg

Suicide put out a song called "Frankie Teardrops" that has similar elements to some SOTT material, with the post-apocalyptic storytelling vibe. Most Prince fans will not hear the comparison. It's too out there. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/wa...5wJQkvSoOQ

The Paisley Underground scene with it's retro vibe was also an influence....and the Bangles started as a punk band called The Bangs. There were direct links.

Husker Du were hardcore punk, on SST records. It's a different thing, and more machismo based, not the lace, gender bending glam influenced scene of early wave punk. By the time of Zen Arcade, Prince already recorded more experimental work. They were both on Warner at the same time, so maybe they shared an A&R rep. Bob Mould has talked about getting excited when they crossed paths though.

Prince did a real punk rock song When Doves Scream.

It's post-punk, not punk. Like PiL et al.

I remember reading a Paul Westerberg interview where he said one night his old band, the Replacements, was playing at the 7th Street Entry, Prince wandered in and checked his band out. He said, he didn't stay too long and promptly left

802 said:

Prince did a real punk rock song When Doves Scream.

I remember when I heard that song for the first time. I was like, "WTF is THIS?" But I do like that song; it has an angry vibe to it.

Don't know if anybody has mentioned this song (since I'm too damn lazy to read all the responses on this thread - lol!). But the unreleased Prince song, "Purple Music", to me, has a punk rock vibe to it.

When Doves Screeeeeeeeeam!

prince doesn't qualify! even in his pants stockings & makeup he's still too refined & i could have taken him home to meet my mum

Punk is for kids who don't understand the finer points of music, or who can't pay attention to something that's in the least bit complex.

Prince is not a master of punk just like he isnt a master of jazz. However he can add elements of these genres in his songs and make it sound good. That is where he excels. So yeah he didn't make the kind of punk music that for example The Clash did on their debut record (songs like Carrear Oppurtunities, What's My Name, Janie Jones etc) But yes he can add elements of it to his work and do well with it. I'd like to see him give it a try again.

Dogsinthetrees said:

Punk is for kids who don't understand the finer points of music, or who can't pay attention to something that's in the least bit complex.

really? so singing the same old song about sex over a typical 12 bar blues structure with a 2 4 simple drumbeat is what you consider more complex than the music of black flag, the clash, dead kennedys, fugazi? or how about more recent alt punk bands like the cure, janes addiction, pixies, frank black, smashing pumpkins .. the simplicity of a ramones song is as beautiful as any over blown orchestral arrangement ..

njin said:

What if he took Dirty Mind a step further with a similar album but a bit more punk rockish? I'm thinking the outtake Tick Tick Bang, Something In The Water, the outtake Irresistable Bitch, Sister, Broken, the punkish version of When Doves Cry, maybe an uptempo version of It in a rocknroll style? What would you think about Prince doing a more punk oriented album? And do you think studying punk rock was important inspiration to his persona on stage and in studio? Husker Du was a Minneapolis band with quite some similarities to Prince. I'm interrested in hearing people's opinion on his punk influence. Personally I know he had the capacity of creating the most amasing punk oriented album ever. But never did.

These are some of my favourite Prince songs. I love the edgier stuff he did back then when he was more free with his songs. The Original TTB is far superior to the GB version and the lengthy birthday rehearsal versions of SITW just blow me away. I always loved the album version but when I heard the basement rehearsal that was it. Is there an existing bootleg with just these kind of songs put together? I guess really I should make my own CD from my collection but I may miss a few out..

Oh and I agree wholeheartedly with the last sentence. it would have been amazing!

Dogsinthetrees said:

Punk is for kids who don't understand the finer points of music, or who can't pay attention to something that's in the least bit complex.

bullshit

if it wasn't for punk and new wave, prince wouldn't be half the interresting artist that he proved to be IMO. It's one of the most important things explaing his "dont-give-a-fuck"attitude. Prince strength is is way of contrasting the "finer" technique based art towards the primitive punkish way of "destroying" somehing. This is what gives him edge than I have never heard by any artist before him imo. His music has so many dimensions it's crazy. In his best days he would use inspiration of a genre that was needed to express one little sound in a song. Some people probably think this is done very much calculated. But I think it's in his music language, and therefore he's doing it both very impulsive, yet sometimes very calculated in production with sound engineers.

most people I know that are huge punk fans listen to it because it has a more primitive, naive and "real" type of expression than all of these over polished technique based artists.

to me punk is more about attitude and expression than a pure music form. As a music form, punk kinda lost it's meaning when too many started following it as a trend, however the punk trend was not pure punk, but pop "punk". Punk is not a fad, it's about fighting these so called trends, and often doing the opposite. Pure punk to me is a bit boring in the long run, but I'm very glad that purists are not removing this form as a music language, that I personally think too many artists suffer from not having.

hhhhdmt said:

Prince is not a master of punk just like he isnt a master of jazz. However he can add elements of these genres in his songs and make it sound good. That is where he excels. So yeah he didn't make the kind of punk music that for example The Clash did on their debut record (songs like Carrear Oppurtunities, What's My Name, Janie Jones etc) But yes he can add elements of it to his work and do well with it. I'd like to see him give it a try again.

Prince has not ever tried to be a master of a pure genre, he thinks it boring because he wants to do all music at once, so we'll never know imo. I don't think it would be a problem for him being a master of punk, since punk is not a about techniche, but way of expression. If he was punk in his head, he would have no problem. Mastering jazz as the wide genre it is, and the sometimes extreme complexity of it's nature however is something else. Even this he has never tried to prove, since none of his albums are hinting in that direction. Madhouse and NEWS are just funk fusioned with a little jazz. more than 35 proffesional years in the business playing guitar on a pretty variated and high level since his early 20s, and piano way before that, being the son of a jazz pianist. I can't think that he wouldn't be able to do some interesting jazz together with other great jazz musicians musicians.