TwiliteKid said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Wait a sec, is he producing masterpieces or not? Make up your mind man!

You tell me, you're the one who doesn't know.

TwiliteKid said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Wait a sec, is he producing masterpieces or not? Make up your mind man!

PFunkjazz said:

It's quite common for musicians intheir twilight to settle on a rotation of their best compositions or songs and do them repeatedly. Especially in this market. What's the point of new tunes if everyone rips them for free? Better to just lay down the standards and reap the benefits in live performances.

am agreeing with this statement, Because of Prince's decision 2 choose different ways of distribution. because of the rip 4 free that loses him millions. Has nothing 2 do with his new & old MASTERPIECES.......

[Edited 5/18/11 19:54pm]

theonly4ever said:

His guitar playing is better now...

As a guitar player I will have to disagree with this statement. Prince came and went on the guitar before the year 2000. I promise.

PFunkjazz said:

TwiliteKid said:

Wait a sec, is he producing masterpieces or not? Make up your mind man!

You tell me, you're the one who doesn't know.

Wasn't talking to you, dude.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

TwiliteKid said:

PFunkjazz said:

It's quite common for musicians intheir twilight to settle on a rotation of their best compositions or songs and do them repeatedly. Especially in this market. What's the point of new tunes if everyone rips them for free? Better to just lay down the standards and reap the benefits in live performances.

am agreeing with this statement, Because of Prince's decision 2 choose different ways of distribution. because of the rip 4 free that loses him millions. Has nothing 2 do with his new & old MASTERPIECES.......

[Edited 5/18/11 19:54pm]

C'mon now. Prince would have to do Purple Rain numbers to make anywhere near a million in royalties, and it's been a long time since he's come anywhere near that. Given that his sales had dropped waaaaay off long before downloading/ripping became an issue, I don't think you can blame any dip in his funds on the Internet.

And to way in on the topic at hand: Prince has been on his way back down the mountain for a long time. That doesn't mean he doesn't still produce some good stuff, but he'll never reach the same heights again.

[Edited 5/18/11 21:27pm]

TwiliteKid said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

C'mon now. Prince would have to do Purple Rain numbers to make anywhere near a million in royalties, and it's been a long time since he's come anywhere near that. Given that his sales had dropped waaaaay off long before downloading/ripping became an issue, I don't think you can blame any dip in his funds on the Internet.

And to way in on the topic at hand: Prince has been on his way back down the mountain for a long time. That doesn't mean he doesn't still produce some good stuff, but he'll never reach the same heights again.

[Edited 5/18/11 21:27pm]

Prince has made way more money than Purple Rain or the wb years, since he has been on his own. U seem very clueless about any facts regarding Prince. Ur wasting my time. I'm done with U.

"Has P reached his musical peak?"

Funny. I've been coming to prince.org for about ten years now, and this question seems to pop up every year.

Me thinks it's proof he hasn't.

Emancipation89 said:

Only commercial success can be measured objectively...

Exactly.

steakfinger said:

theonly4ever said:

His guitar playing is better now...

As a guitar player I will have to disagree with this statement. Prince came and went on the guitar before the year 2000. I promise.

Ok. I trust you.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Word from several sources says he is holding on 2 some killer masterpieces. U'll c & eat ur words. Don't underestimate Princey EVER! LOTUSFLOW3R,3121,& 20TEN R MEGA gold & platinum MASTERPIECES...

[Edited 5/17/11 22:55pm]

What kind of drugs are you on? Mood stabilizers?

XNY said:

Funny. I've been coming to prince.org for about ten years now, and this question seems to pop up every year.

Me thinks it's proof he hasn't.

... Or that he has.

Yes, he peaked with Sign o the times, but he has recovered some the ground lost during his wilderness years of the 90s. His latest albums are mature and thoughtful, but not classics like Parade, SOTT or 1999. Mainly as he's not hungry for fame anymore like he was. Hes become a beloved elder statesman of funk.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

TwiliteKid said:

C'mon now. Prince would have to do Purple Rain numbers to make anywhere near a million in royalties, and it's been a long time since he's come anywhere near that. Given that his sales had dropped waaaaay off long before downloading/ripping became an issue, I don't think you can blame any dip in his funds on the Internet.

And to way in on the topic at hand: Prince has been on his way back down the mountain for a long time. That doesn't mean he doesn't still produce some good stuff, but he'll never reach the same heights again.

[Edited 5/18/11 21:27pm]

Prince has made way more money than Purple Rain or the wb years, since he has been on his own. U seem very clueless about any facts regarding Prince. Ur wasting my time. I'm done with U.

Hilarious. Let me try to explain this to you again:

You've suggested that Prince has lost millions due to people ripping his CDs rather than buying the music. The money that artists make from the sales of CDs (that would be those royalties I mentioned) amounts to pennies per disc. Prince's sales figures dropped off a long time ago, to the point where there's simply no way he was earning that kind of money from sales alone, long before the Internet became an issue. It's been well over a decade that most of his money has come from live shows and the advances he gets when he signs one of his one-off deals.

Prince MAY have made more money since WB (though I have a hard time accepting his claims at face value on that), but IF he has, it hasn't come from sales.

Get it now, sycophant?

THis question would make sense if artistic talents and God given gifts - such as those that Prince has - were like athletic abilities and existed in a defined physical realm. There is a definite peak in athletic ability because they rely on the physical functions of the body - and the human body has measurable, quantifiable, and finite levels of performance that eventually degrade with passing time. Every great athlete has hit a peak and started to decline - it was always a matter of time and the aging process.

Art is not subject to physical, spatial, or chronological parameters. It is the product of the mind - it could be called a cerebral function. And depending on your philosphy, it could also be a product of the soul - thus, a spiritual function. Great music can be made at any age and at any time. No one knows the limits ol the human brain as we only use a small portion of it in our lives. How can a "peak" be determined if there is no knowledge of everything that the mind can do? And in the case of Prince, who has very intelligent and has an extrodinary mind - a genius mind - there is simply no way to intelligently speculate on any peak or any sort. Minds like his have infinite possibilities that can not be comprehended.

[Edited 5/19/11 7:10am]

TwiliteKid said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Prince has made way more money than Purple Rain or the wb years, since he has been on his own. U seem very clueless about any facts regarding Prince. Ur wasting my time. I'm done with U.

Hilarious. Let me try to explain this to you again:

You've suggested that Prince has lost millions due to people ripping his CDs rather than buying the music. The money that artists make from the sales of CDs (that would be those royalties I mentioned) amounts to pennies per disc. Prince's sales figures dropped off a long time ago, to the point where there's simply no way he was earning that kind of money from sales alone, long before the Internet became an issue. It's been well over a decade that most of his money has come from live shows and the advances he gets when he signs one of his one-off deals.

Prince MAY have made more money since WB (though I have a hard time accepting his claims at face value on that), but IF he has, it hasn't come from sales.

Get it now, sycophant?

Again U r missing my point and Ur wrong.But have some points right.Yes artist make pennies in some cases a dollar from royalty sales per disk & ringtones, but not right away. They or Prince didn't get that money right away,Only the advances which had 2 b recouped later. In Prince's case now he makes way more. Because he demands & gets an upfront fee in the millions and doesn't have 2 deal with the middle man(labels) in order 2 get paid. Yes he does have the potential 2 lose millions if he releases cd's in stores or digital downloads NOW. Because of rip 4 free. I'm talking about in the present not the past. That is why he comes up with alternative ways to get his product out there. Ways where he can collect upfront and not wait months or years before he can get a penny from record labels.

Of course he didn't make in the millions from sales when he was with the WB.They did. That is one of the reasons why he left them in the first place.Now he is collects everything. Of course his money now is coming from live shows and advances never denied that. GET IT!

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

TwiliteKid said:

Hilarious. Let me try to explain this to you again:

You've suggested that Prince has lost millions due to people ripping his CDs rather than buying the music. The money that artists make from the sales of CDs (that would be those royalties I mentioned) amounts to pennies per disc. Prince's sales figures dropped off a long time ago, to the point where there's simply no way he was earning that kind of money from sales alone, long before the Internet became an issue. It's been well over a decade that most of his money has come from live shows and the advances he gets when he signs one of his one-off deals.

Prince MAY have made more money since WB (though I have a hard time accepting his claims at face value on that), but IF he has, it hasn't come from sales.

Get it now, sycophant?

Again U r missing my point and Ur wrong.But have some points right.Yes artist make pennies in some cases a dollar from royalty sales per disk & ringtones, but not right away. They or Prince didn't get that money right away,Only the advances which had 2 b recouped later. In Prince's case now he makes way more. Because he demands & gets an upfront fee in the millions and doesn't have 2 deal with the middle man(labels) in order 2 get paid. Yes he does have the potential 2 lose millions if he releases cd's in stores or digital downloads NOW. Because of rip 4 free. I'm talking about in the present not the past. That is why he comes up with alternative ways to get his product out there. Ways where he can collect upfront and not wait months or years before he can get a penny from record labels.

Of course he didn't make in the millions from sales when he was with the WB.They did. That is one of the reasons why he left them in the first place.Now he is collects everything. Of course his money now is coming from live shows and advances never denied that. GET IT!

You are one muddle-headed little man. One more time: Prince CANNOT lose money from sales he never would have earned in the first place. Recouping against advances has nothing to do with it.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

TwiliteKid said:

Hilarious. Let me try to explain this to you again:

You've suggested that Prince has lost millions due to people ripping his CDs rather than buying the music. The money that artists make from the sales of CDs (that would be those royalties I mentioned) amounts to pennies per disc. Prince's sales figures dropped off a long time ago, to the point where there's simply no way he was earning that kind of money from sales alone, long before the Internet became an issue. It's been well over a decade that most of his money has come from live shows and the advances he gets when he signs one of his one-off deals.

Prince MAY have made more money since WB (though I have a hard time accepting his claims at face value on that), but IF he has, it hasn't come from sales.

Get it now, sycophant?

Again U r missing my point and Ur wrong.But have some points right.Yes artist make pennies in some cases a dollar from royalty sales per disk & ringtones, but not right away. They or Prince didn't get that money right away,Only the advances which had 2 b recouped later. In Prince's case now he makes way more. Because he demands & gets an upfront fee in the millions and doesn't have 2 deal with the middle man(labels) in order 2 get paid. Yes he does have the potential 2 lose millions if he releases cd's in stores or digital downloads NOW. Because of rip 4 free. I'm talking about in the present not the past. That is why he comes up with alternative ways to get his product out there. Ways where he can collect upfront and not wait months or years before he can get a penny from record labels.

Of course he didn't make in the millions from sales when he was with the WB.They did. That is one of the reasons why he left them in the first place.Now he is collects everything. Of course his money now is coming from live shows and advances never denied that. GET IT!

1) You're not correct. Prince was a millionaire before he left WB. There was no significant copying that dented into any of his sales by the time his sales dropped off. Prince's sales were "disappointing" as early as Parade and as late as The Symbol Album. This had nothing to do with MP3s.

2) Prince signed a $100 million deal in 1992. Where do you come off thinking he wasn't making millions by that time??? You think people just go from pennies to 100 million dollars overnight?? What logic does that follow? It's not remotely accurate.

3) People will STILL rip his shit for free as is evident from, oh, every single album released ever. That doesn't stop anything. Seems artists don't have trouble selling 10 million records these days when they follow traditional promotion methods:

1. The Beatles, 1,11,499,000 units sold
2. 'NSYNC, No Strings Attached, 11,112,000 units sold
3. Norah Jones, Come Away With Me, 10, 546,000 units sold
4. Eminem, The Marshall Mathers LP, 10,204,000 units sold
5. Eminem, The Eminem Show, 9,799,000 units sold
6. Usher, Confessions, 9,712,000 units sold
7. Linkin Park, Hybrid Theory, 9,663,000 units sold
8. Creed, Human Clay, 9,491,000 units sold
9. Britney Spears, Oops! ... I Did It Again, 9,185,000 units sold
10. Nelly, Country Grammar, 8,461,000 units sold

These are the best selling albums of the 2000s. Prince ain't anywhere near there and he never would've been with the records he released in the 2000s.

TwiliteKid said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

C'mon now. Prince would have to do Purple Rain numbers to make anywhere near a million in royalties, and it's been a long time since he's come anywhere near that. Given that his sales had dropped waaaaay off long before downloading/ripping became an issue, I don't think you can blame any dip in his funds on the Internet.

And to way in on the topic at hand: Prince has been on his way back down the mountain for a long time. That doesn't mean he doesn't still produce some good stuff, but he'll never reach the same heights again.

[Edited 5/18/11 21:27pm]

Basic fact: Veteran Artists are not at all happy about the way the internet has changed music distribution and retail sales. They simply don't get full value out of making new reords. They think they are being robbed. and would much rather tour.

Corollary to BASIC FACT: Artists retain more profits from touring and licensing their music with movies, tv shows and commercials. Having a hit record is only part of the game; probably the least profitable.

MY FERVENT Opinon: Prince is "on his way back" because his live concerts have been better and he's licensed product into movies and commercials. Now, I dialed out somewhere after RAINBOW CHILLEN, so it's pointless to debate me on my opinion. I'm really enjoying 21 Nights. It has renewed my interest in Prince, but I'm not really invested in seeing any new studio recordings. He can cruise into whatever retirement lifestyle he chooses and not fret about his musical legacy.

Has he reached A musical peak? Yes. However, I think he's had more than one and I think he will have more.

never said he wasn't a millionaire @ WB. said he has made more money since leaving The WB. Of course he made millions @ WB. He had been there since 77/78 & left in 95. All that mumbo jumbo U wrote already know all that. was just pointing out that Prince makes more money on his own than being signed 2 a major label. But c can't get my point across, so I'm bowing out of it..

Spinlight said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Again U r missing my point and Ur wrong.But have some points right.Yes artist make pennies in some cases a dollar from royalty sales per disk & ringtones, but not right away. They or Prince didn't get that money right away,Only the advances which had 2 b recouped later. In Prince's case now he makes way more. Because he demands & gets an upfront fee in the millions and doesn't have 2 deal with the middle man(labels) in order 2 get paid. Yes he does have the potential 2 lose millions if he releases cd's in stores or digital downloads NOW. Because of rip 4 free. I'm talking about in the present not the past. That is why he comes up with alternative ways to get his product out there. Ways where he can collect upfront and not wait months or years before he can get a penny from record labels.

Of course he didn't make in the millions from sales when he was with the WB.They did. That is one of the reasons why he left them in the first place.Now he is collects everything. Of course his money now is coming from live shows and advances never denied that. GET IT!

1) You're not correct. Prince was a millionaire before he left WB. There was no significant copying that dented into any of his sales by the time his sales dropped off. Prince's sales were "disappointing" as early as Parade and as late as The Symbol Album. This had nothing to do with MP3s.

2) Prince signed a $100 million deal in 1992. Where do you come off thinking he wasn't making millions by that time??? You think people just go from pennies to 100 million dollars overnight?? What logic does that follow? It's not remotely accurate.

3) People will STILL rip his shit for free as is evident from, oh, every single album released ever. That doesn't stop anything. Seems artists don't have trouble selling 10 million records these days when they follow traditional promotion methods:

1. The Beatles, 1,11,499,000 units sold
2. 'NSYNC, No Strings Attached, 11,112,000 units sold
3. Norah Jones, Come Away With Me, 10, 546,000 units sold
4. Eminem, The Marshall Mathers LP, 10,204,000 units sold
5. Eminem, The Eminem Show, 9,799,000 units sold
6. Usher, Confessions, 9,712,000 units sold
7. Linkin Park, Hybrid Theory, 9,663,000 units sold
8. Creed, Human Clay, 9,491,000 units sold
9. Britney Spears, Oops! ... I Did It Again, 9,185,000 units sold
10. Nelly, Country Grammar, 8,461,000 units sold

These are the best selling albums of the 2000s. Prince ain't anywhere near there and he never would've been with the records he released in the 2000s.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

never said he wasn't a millionaire @ WB. said he has made more money since leaving The WB. Of course he made millions @ WB. He had been there since 77/78 & left in 95. All that mumbo jumbo U wrote already know all that. was just pointing out that Prince makes more money on his own than being signed 2 a major label. But c can't get my point across, so I'm bowing out of it..

Spinlight said:

1) You're not correct. Prince was a millionaire before he left WB. There was no significant copying that dented into any of his sales by the time his sales dropped off. Prince's sales were "disappointing" as early as Parade and as late as The Symbol Album. This had nothing to do with MP3s.

2) Prince signed a $100 million deal in 1992. Where do you come off thinking he wasn't making millions by that time??? You think people just go from pennies to 100 million dollars overnight?? What logic does that follow? It's not remotely accurate.

3) People will STILL rip his shit for free as is evident from, oh, every single album released ever. That doesn't stop anything. Seems artists don't have trouble selling 10 million records these days when they follow traditional promotion methods:

1. The Beatles, 1,11,499,000 units sold
2. 'NSYNC, No Strings Attached, 11,112,000 units sold
3. Norah Jones, Come Away With Me, 10, 546,000 units sold
4. Eminem, The Marshall Mathers LP, 10,204,000 units sold
5. Eminem, The Eminem Show, 9,799,000 units sold
6. Usher, Confessions, 9,712,000 units sold
7. Linkin Park, Hybrid Theory, 9,663,000 units sold
8. Creed, Human Clay, 9,491,000 units sold
9. Britney Spears, Oops! ... I Did It Again, 9,185,000 units sold
10. Nelly, Country Grammar, 8,461,000 units sold

These are the best selling albums of the 2000s. Prince ain't anywhere near there and he never would've been with the records he released in the 2000s.

I get that you are copy/pasting ideas Prince has put into your head. I'm really unsure as to why you believe everything out of his mouth. He is a salesman. Of course he has to endear to the fans and present a certain image. Some things he says are not true. Some are true.

However, Prince was not suffering financially because of the record business. He was suffering financially because he made untold videos and musical recordings and live show documentaries that destroyed his funds. Not to mention several movies and home video projects which never materialized or were too niche to be accessible to a wider audience.

I know I usually knock you and you probably don't care much for my replies, but I'm trying to make it clear to you that Prince has never suffered financially and whether or not he makes more today than he did before is not simply chalked up to his lack of a record deal.

Prince once complained on the L41A site that videos cost too much money to make @ $300,000 a pop. So if you figure Prince was making videos for that much money 15 years ago, do the math. He did videos for almost every single commercially released song between 1991-1995. How do you figure that is economically sound?

YOUR POINT, I presume, is that BECAUSE Prince gets the $1-2.5m advance for selling his stock of an album in bulk, he is making more money. I would like you to verify your findings beyond Prince's statements because, so far, reality has shown otherwise.

At the end of the day an album will sell if it's good and available everywhere, classic case the latest Foo Fighters album. It leaked 3 weeks prior to being released, once it leaked the band streamedthe entire album on they're own website and still it went to number one in the uk knocking off the biggest selling album of the year which is Adele, (which went back to number 1 a week later but still first week sales are the strongest to a band like the Foos).

Since The Gold Experience Prince hasn't released a solid strong commercial album with normal promo. yes he's released good albums, Emancipation was promoted well - ish but was 3 discs and £20.

C & D - no promo

Emancipation - average album, too long very little promo

NPS - sub standard,no promo

Rave - sub standard, no promo

TRC - good album, not commercial in any way, no promo

Musicology - (IMO good) but in general average, no promo

3121 - above average, very little promo (in uk)

Planet Earth - Free in papers but did 21 nights at O2

Lotuysflow3r - solid record but unavailable outside USA

20Ten - Free in uk papers, very little promo

this is all my opinion anyway so who gives a fuck

bigd74 said:

At the end of the day an album will sell if it's good and available everywhere, classic case the latest Foo Fighters album. It leaked 3 weeks prior to being released, once it leaked the band streamedthe entire album on they're own website and still it went to number one in the uk knocking off the biggest selling album of the year which is Adele, (which went back to number 1 a week later but still first week sales are the strongest to a band like the Foos).

Since The Gold Experience Prince hasn't released a solid strong commercial album with normal promo. yes he's released good albums, Emancipation was promoted well - ish but was 3 discs and £20.

C & D - no promo

Emancipation - average album, too long very little promo

NPS - sub standard,no promo

Rave - sub standard, no promo

TRC - good album, not commercial in any way, no promo

Musicology - (IMO good) but in general average, no promo

3121 - above average, very little promo (in uk)

Planet Earth - Free in papers but did 21 nights at O2

Lotuysflow3r - solid record but unavailable outside USA

20Ten - Free in uk papers, very little promo

this is all my opinion anyway so who gives a fuck

This is a forum. Your opinion matters because without it, there's no discussion.

Anyway, you are right. The promo is just never there. Prince gets a bit of promo right before he releases an album because his words are amplified and hyped up by the media. Then the album drops and you hear crickets. Then the reviews come and they are meh. People don't need to go by the critics' numbers to appreciate music, but if a record is getting slammed by the press, it should affect the sales one way or the other.

After listening to Prince for more than 20 years, I have learned to not focus on 1 area of his life or development as an artist. I have also learned to not divide the man into components, like

- the producer

- the musician

- the singer

- the dancer

I dig everything he does and am grateful that unlike fans of other artists, Prince is one of the most prolific out there. He satisfies the insatiable need of thousands of people who appreciate his unique blending of sounds and instruments, voices & percussive sounds.

So, do I think Prince has reached his musical peak? No way...the man never ceases to amaze me, continually doing things on his own terms, and enticing new audiences along the way who want to experience something live, something different from the 'products' out there.

4ever Prince r

...think I'm playin' like straight buttocks, jump on the 1 & 3 catch this >>>

>>>

Just playin' y'all

Deacon, plz take out the text...

jbrown83 said:

This is a tough question, because imo SOTT was his pinnacle in terms of a flawless album, but after Lovesexy i think he suffered a dry period. With his new releases I can hear that genius, particularly on Colonized mind and even laydown. I think P still has a lot left in him, and maybe he should take a couple years, and let his musical ideas marinate before releasing another flawless masterpiece like SOTT, what are some of your thoughts?

This is tough for me to say as Hardcore Fam / Enthusiast:

I think P has said everthing he can say in lyrical form, we may hear somethin' a lil different musical from time to time but, I don't think he'll stray past what he's done in the last 10yrs (lyrically). We all know he's a JW so the / his creative process won't stray to far from the New World Translation of the bible in terms of GOD.

He's still gonna sing about sex and love and he's still gonna put his 'spin' on it. Not that he's tapped out but, he's said everything he could say unless he became a Buddhist or Mislim or if he was to follow some of spiritual path.

I'll still be there at the live shows and buy the albums and still be along for the ride ...

[Edited 5/19/11 20:37pm]

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

TwiliteKid said:

Hilarious. Let me try to explain this to you again:

You've suggested that Prince has lost millions due to people ripping his CDs rather than buying the music. The money that artists make from the sales of CDs (that would be those royalties I mentioned) amounts to pennies per disc. Prince's sales figures dropped off a long time ago, to the point where there's simply no way he was earning that kind of money from sales alone, long before the Internet became an issue. It's been well over a decade that most of his money has come from live shows and the advances he gets when he signs one of his one-off deals.

Prince MAY have made more money since WB (though I have a hard time accepting his claims at face value on that), but IF he has, it hasn't come from sales.

Get it now, sycophant?

Again U r missing my point and Ur wrong.But have some points right.Yes artist make pennies in some cases a dollar from royalty sales per disk & ringtones, but not right away. They or Prince didn't get that money right away,Only the advances which had 2 b recouped later. In Prince's case now he makes way more. Because he demands & gets an upfront fee in the millions and doesn't have 2 deal with the middle man(labels) in order 2 get paid. Yes he does have the potential 2 lose millions if he releases cd's in stores or digital downloads NOW. Because of rip 4 free. I'm talking about in the present not the past. That is why he comes up with alternative ways to get his product out there. Ways where he can collect upfront and not wait months or years before he can get a penny from record labels.

Of course he didn't make in the millions from sales when he was with the WB.They did. That is one of the reasons why he left them in the first place.Now he is collects everything. Of course his money now is coming from live shows and advances never denied that. GET IT!

This would be correct if

a. prince actually sold records and didnt give them away in a newspaper for $1mm

b. prince didnt spend more than he has

c. prince had a real accountant/bus manager

Unfortunately, I think he makes $ only on tour these days. Even then, costs are high and who knows if he barely breaks even with $25 tick prices.