It's a shame Prince wasn't serious about it because it could've been so much more than it was. He had inhouse writers like Wendy & Lisa and it could've been a 'hit factory' like PWL or Motown. Imagine having Dez, Jesse, Andre, Jam & Lewis writing material for acts under the PP banner. A total fantasy, but it could've been more than it was no doubt. Prince just didn't put the effort in to - like now Prince starts something, then thinks his work is done, and if a project doesn't fly on it's own, it's someone elses fault.

It's true that there's vanity projects and girlfriend stuff on PP, but there's tons of great would-be hits on there from The Family, Sheila, Jill Jones, Mazarati etc, etc. There were hits to be had, they just didn't receive the backing they needed. You can have the hottest song in the world, but if no one knows it exists, it's not going to reach the audience it deserves.

[Edited 5/15/11 3:50am]

strmn said:

errant said:

asking the question gives one context on how best to answer it.

I don't find this answer very convincing.

I don't find myself giving a shit.

errant said:

strmn said:

I don't find this answer very convincing.

I don't find myself giving a shit.

NouveauDance said:

It's a shame Prince wasn't serious about it because it could've been so much more than it was. He had inhouse writers like Wendy & Lisa and it could've been a 'hit factory' like PWL or Motown. Imagine having Dez, Jesse, Andre, Jam & Lewis writing material for acts under the PP banner. A total fantasy, but it could've been more than it was no doubt. Prince just didn't put the effort in to - like now Prince starts something, then thinks his work is done, and if a project doesn't fly on it's own, it's someone elses fault.

It's true that there's vanity projects and girlfriend stuff on PP, but there's tons of great would-be hits on there from The Family, Sheila, Jill Jones, Mazarati etc, etc. There were hits to be had, they just didn't receive the backing they needed. You can have the hottest song in the world, but if no one knows it exists, it's not going to reach the audience it deserves.

[Edited 5/15/11 3:50am]

Yeah, it seemed like any resources PP had was being used for him and him only. Unless, of course, he himself wanted to put HIS music out there via another act, like The Family. He never really ran it or let someone else run the label like a true record label/business.He was his own A&R, and there was no real scouting. If he saw a fine ass dancer with very questionable rap skills (to put it mildly), that was all he needed to hear. It'd be a great excuse to really get them drawers. Like you said, imagine if he wasn't being a prick and he fostered a real working relationship with Jam & Lewis. They would've been making him TONS of money under the PP name. Alan Leeds (who would've made a big difference if his restraints were taken off) could only go so far as the pres all those years because he was just doing what Prince wanted.

I also find it amazing that the studio itself was able to get the business that it did because he had the mindset of "it's there for only me". But, he had to get that income to keep things afloat.

ufoclub said:

jpnyc said:

Paisley Park was not a vanity label. If it had been Warner never would have put so much money into building an office park with state-of-the-art studios and a soundstage. The real problem was that Prince treated it like a vanity label instead of hiring serious people to run it.

I don't think Warners put money into the facilities called Paisley Park. Wasn't that all Prince's investment? And it was rented by various projects back in the late 80's and early 90's. Including, if memory serves, "Grumpy Old Men", Sesame Street (or Muppets?) on Ice, and Fine Young Cannibals.

a-ha also recorded a great album there called Memorial Beach, produced by David Z.

NouveauDance said:

It's a shame Prince wasn't serious about it because it could've been so much more than it was. He had inhouse writers like Wendy & Lisa and it could've been a 'hit factory' like PWL or Motown. Imagine having Dez, Jesse, Andre, Jam & Lewis writing material for acts under the PP banner. A total fantasy, but it could've been more than it was no doubt. Prince just didn't put the effort in to - like now Prince starts something, then thinks his work is done, and if a project doesn't fly on it's own, it's someone elses fault.

It's true that there's vanity projects and girlfriend stuff on PP, but there's tons of great would-be hits on there from The Family, Sheila, Jill Jones, Mazarati etc, etc. There were hits to be had, they just didn't receive the backing they needed. You can have the hottest song in the world, but if no one knows it exists, it's not going to reach the audience it deserves.

[Edited 5/15/11 3:50am]

It really could have been a superb thing if this would've happen. I liked a lot of what actually did come out of Paisley Park. Too bad. Great comment!

NouveauDance said:

Imagine having Jam & Lewis writing material for acts under the PP banner. A total fantasy, but it could've been more than it was no doubt.

[Edited 5/15/11 3:50am]

That would be a fantasy. Just heard a lot of Janet Jackson on the dance floor of the aftermath of a drag king show last night. That shit sounds good.

Yes there was crap on Paisley Park, but for a label with such a short history it released some of the best music ever. The seminal Prince records alone - Around the World in A Day, Parade, and Sign O The Times.

The Madhouse albums, The Family, and Ingrid Chavez with the most modern sounding album of the label.

Talk gibberish all you want, but name a label that put out this amount of legendary work in such a short time frame. The label took Prince's music at his peak and shipped it.

Prince shot his wad, and the label lost it's erection along with him. Paisley Park served it's purpose.

Jimmy Jam and W&L couldnt have saved PP because, well..look at them. As talented as they are, they were not commercial successes in the 90's or beyond either.

So to everyone and all your nonsense, just appreciate PP for what it was instead of your batshit delusions.

[Edited 5/15/11 9:49am]

V10LETBLUES said:

Jimmy Jam and W&L couldnt have saved PP because, well..look at them. As talented as they are, they were not commercial successes in the 90's or beyond either.

So to everyone and all your nonsense, just appreciate PP for what it was instead of your batshit delusions

We're doing just that with this thread.

No one said J&L or W&L could save the label at all, read what people actually saying not just what you imagine they are saying.

V10LETBLUES said:

Yes there was crap on Paisley Park, but for a label with such a short history it released some of the best music ever. The seminal Prince records alone - Around the World in A Day, Parade, and Sign O The Times.

The Madhouse albums, The Family, and Ingrid Chavez with the most modern sounding album of the label.

Talk gibberish all you want, but name a label that put out this amount of legendary work in such a short time frame. The label took Prince's music at his peak and shipped it.

Prince shot his wad, and the label lost it's erection along with him. Paisley Park served it's purpose.

Jimmy Jam and W&L couldnt have saved PP because, well..look at them. As talented as they are, they were not commercial successes in the 90's or beyond either.

So to everyone and all your nonsense, just appreciate PP for what it was instead of your batshit delusions.

[Edited 5/15/11 9:49am]

[img:$uid]http://valawyersweekly.com/files/2009/12/important-ops-logo.jpg[/img:$uid]

V10LETBLUES said:

[...]

Talk gibberish all you want, but name a label that put out this amount of legendary work in such a short time frame.

Uhm... Motown?

To be honest, many alternative / hiphop / electronic labels have put out what's considered to be the best material on them within the time frame of their first 5-7 years.

Paisley Park's problem was that for some odd reason Prince wanted to release pretty middle-of-the-road pop on it. Most of his protege acts after 87-88 just had a fairly uninteresting, watered-down sound on their records.

novabrkr said:

V10LETBLUES said:

[...]

Talk gibberish all you want, but name a label that put out this amount of legendary work in such a short time frame.

Uhm... Motown?

To be honest, many alternative / hiphop / electronic labels have put out what's considered to be the best material on them within the time frame of their first 5-7 years.

Paisley Park's problem was that for some odd reason Prince wanted to release pretty middle-of-the-road pop on it. Most of his protege acts after 87-88 just had a fairly uninteresting, watered-down sound on their records.

Good Example, now we're talking. Now we are putting PP in it's proper perspective.

And yes, by 88 Prince had pretty much shot his load. Time has proved that by that time, his best days were behind him.

Hah, pretty smart answer from you. Didn't see that one coming.

No, I don't think Paisley Park had too many amazing records. Some good stuff here and there, but Prince himself was still mainly recording for WB.

There was a time when I would get EVERYTHING from "Cutting Records", There was a lot of crap on that label, but also some of the most original bits and pieces ever recorded, Hashim's – Al-Naafiysh is the prime example. Same with anything with Paisley Park.

I cherish these records, the good and the truly horrible. These labels had a distinct voice, I admire that about them.

[Edited 5/15/11 10:32am]

V10LETBLUES said:

Se7en said:

Paisley Park (the record label) was merely an outlet for Prince's own music funneled through his friends and girlfriends.

It would have been really great if Prince had discovered or managed that next "big thing" without molding them in his image or putting their voices over his music. But in that vein, imagine if Prince had signed Terence Trent D'arby or Lenny Kravitz?

Look at Madonna . . . WB gave her a record label too (Maverick) and she had diverse acts like Prodigy, Alanis Morissette, and the Deftones.

Looking back, we were all lemmings to buy any-and-everything with the Paisley Park logo on it.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I cherish all my Paisley albums minus Tony Le Mans, Good Question and a couple of others.

I love Tony LeMans CD. Different Kinda Thing rocks! Good Question was the absolute worst. I actually saw them live at the Palladium in NYC. They and Apollonia opened for Guy.

HonestMan13 said:

V10LETBLUES said:

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I cherish all my Paisley albums minus Tony Le Mans, Good Question and a couple of others.

I love Tony LeMans CD. Different Kinda Thing rocks! Good Question was the absolute worst. I actually saw them live at the Palladium in NYC. They and Apollonia opened for Guy.

Maybe I was too harsh on Tony. "Forever More" is good too.

[Edited 5/15/11 11:49am]

V10LETBLUES said:

Jimmy Jam and W&L couldnt have saved PP because, well..look at them. As talented as they are, they were not commercial successes in the 90's or beyond either.

[Edited 5/15/11 9:49am]

.... Jam and Lewis? Janet Jackson? 90's? HITS.

So imagine if she chose Jam and Lewis (if they were on PP) as her writers/producers and the album "Janet" was a Paisley Park record:

"That's the Way Love Goes"

"If"

"Again"

"You Want This"

cant really blame prince .. he was pretty busy playing all the instruments on like 17 different band projects .. writing and making movies, concert films, videos, touring and of course writing and recording his own projects as well .. obviously under the right management paisley park could have had greater success but prince knows the music business is pretty shadey so maybe family and friends were more important to him .. doesnt really matter .. he was doing so much how can anyone expect him to have done more .. to have made every decision a genius decision .. that is expecting a bit much

Say what you want right now several of the Paisley Park acts are still in hot demand after all this time. George Clinton, Sheila E. and Mavis Staples have steady careers that aren't in any jeopardy. Everyone is waiting for the next FDeluxe(The Family) and the next Time releases. Jill Jones is still on everyones radar as evidenced by the 'For Lust' leaked track. People jumped all over that song Dale released recently(haven't heard it myself) that was from her Paisley days. Ingrid Chavez still gets recognition on here as well. If Mazarati reunited some on here would go apeshit! The overall output may not have been great timeless tracks but it was good for what it was and the time it represented.

HonestMan13 said:

Say what you want right now several of the Paisley Park acts are still in hot demand after all this time. George Clinton, Sheila E. and Mavis Staples have steady careers that aren't in any jeopardy. Everyone is waiting for the next FDeluxe(The Family) and the next Time releases. Jill Jones is still on everyones radar as evidenced by the 'For Lust' leaked track. People jumped all over that song Dale released recently(haven't heard it myself) that was from her Paisley days. Ingrid Chavez still gets recognition on here as well. If Mazarati reunited some on here would go apeshit! The overall output may not have been great timeless tracks but it was good for what it was and the time it represented.

Being talked about on the org does not correlate to a hot career or being in demand. I mean, look at Prince.... The guy can't sell out shows with $10 & $20 tickets.

HonestMan13 said:

Say what you want right now several of the Paisley Park acts are still in hot demand after all this time. George Clinton, Sheila E. and Mavis Staples have steady careers that aren't in any jeopardy. Everyone is waiting for the next FDeluxe(The Family) and the next Time releases. Jill Jones is still on everyones radar as evidenced by the 'For Lust' leaked track. People jumped all over that song Dale released recently(haven't heard it myself) that was from her Paisley days. Ingrid Chavez still gets recognition on here as well. If Mazarati reunited some on here would go apeshit! The overall output may not have been great timeless tracks but it was good for what it was and the time it represented.

George Clinton and Mavis Staples were established artists before doing anything with Prince. So they don't really count.

errant said:

HonestMan13 said:

Say what you want right now several of the Paisley Park acts are still in hot demand after all this time. George Clinton, Sheila E. and Mavis Staples have steady careers that aren't in any jeopardy. Everyone is waiting for the next FDeluxe(The Family) and the next Time releases. Jill Jones is still on everyones radar as evidenced by the 'For Lust' leaked track. People jumped all over that song Dale released recently(haven't heard it myself) that was from her Paisley days. Ingrid Chavez still gets recognition on here as well. If Mazarati reunited some on here would go apeshit! The overall output may not have been great timeless tracks but it was good for what it was and the time it represented.

Being talked about on the org does not correlate to a hot career or being in demand. I mean, look at Prince.... The guy can't sell out shows with $10 & $20 tickets.

Yeah, you are so right because any act, new or old can play the Forum for 21 nights with show dates announced on very short notice, and sell out each and every show, and for way more than $25 dollars. Yeah, you made a very good point.

V10LETBLUES said:

errant said:

Being talked about on the org does not correlate to a hot career or being in demand. I mean, look at Prince.... The guy can't sell out shows with $10 & $20 tickets.

Yeah, you are so right because any act, new or old can play the Forum for 21 nights with show dates announced on very short notice, and sell out each and every show, and for way more than $25 dollars. Yeah, you made a very good point.

I'm sure Prince thanks you for that, but it's completely beside the point. The poster is acting as if Sheila E, Jill Jones and Mavis Staples are hot acts that are in demand because 20 people are talking about them on this website only because they have some kind of connection to Prince. Paisley Park Records never brought a viable act to the table. The only feathers in its cap were acts established prior to its existence.

errant said:

V10LETBLUES said:

Yeah, you are so right because any act, new or old can play the Forum for 21 nights with show dates announced on very short notice, and sell out each and every show, and for way more than $25 dollars. Yeah, you made a very good point.

I'm sure Prince thanks you for that, but it's completely beside the point. The poster is acting as if Sheila E, Jill Jones and Mavis Staples are hot acts that are in demand because 20 people are talking about them on this website only because they have some kind of connection to Prince. Paisley Park Records never brought a viable act to the table. The only feathers in its cap were acts established prior to its existence.

It is not besides the point. I was responding to your point alone.

errant said:

V10LETBLUES said:

Yeah, you are so right because any act, new or old can play the Forum for 21 nights with show dates announced on very short notice, and sell out each and every show, and for way more than $25 dollars. Yeah, you made a very good point.

I'm sure Prince thanks you for that, but it's completely beside the point. The poster is acting as if Sheila E, Jill Jones and Mavis Staples are hot acts that are in demand because 20 people are talking about them on this website only because they have some kind of connection to Prince. Paisley Park Records never brought a viable act to the table. The only feathers in its cap were acts established prior to its existence.

For a label that's been over for as long as it has been it's a surprise anybody cares about any of the artists that were signed to it but people still do. Some of the artists only had one release and they developed a following(no matter the size). Most of them have no connection to Prince any longer in the present day so the interest is about them not Prince.

HonestMan13 said:

errant said:

I'm sure Prince thanks you for that, but it's completely beside the point. The poster is acting as if Sheila E, Jill Jones and Mavis Staples are hot acts that are in demand because 20 people are talking about them on this website only because they have some kind of connection to Prince. Paisley Park Records never brought a viable act to the table. The only feathers in its cap were acts established prior to its existence.

For a label that's been over for as long as it has been it's a surprise anybody cares about any of the artists that were signed to it but people still do. Some of the artists only had one release and they developed a following(no matter the size). Most of them have no connection to Prince any longer in the present day so the interest is about them not Prince.

really? a following? outside of Prince fans? who? which ones?

ufoclub said:

jpnyc said:

Paisley Park was not a vanity label. If it had been Warner never would have put so much money into building an office park with state-of-the-art studios and a soundstage. The real problem was that Prince treated it like a vanity label instead of hiring serious people to run it.

I don't think Warners put money into the facilities called Paisley Park. Wasn't that all Prince's investment? And it was rented by various projects back in the late 80's and early 90's. Including, if memory serves, "Grumpy Old Men", Sesame Street (or Muppets?) on Ice, and Fine Young Cannibals.

Warner's probably put money into Paisley Park Records for the album pressings/distribution after the point of recording. And maybe into fees for technicians and artists.

MC Hammer too. Parts of 2 Legit 2 Quit were recorded there, I remember seeing Paisley Park Studio listed in the album credits.

errant said:

HonestMan13 said:

For a label that's been over for as long as it has been it's a surprise anybody cares about any of the artists that were signed to it but people still do. Some of the artists only had one release and they developed a following(no matter the size). Most of them have no connection to Prince any longer in the present day so the interest is about them not Prince.

really? a following? outside of Prince fans? who? which ones?

The only one I can think of is Ingrid Chavez.

Nikademus said:

errant said:

really? a following? outside of Prince fans? who? which ones?

The only one I can think of is Ingrid Chavez.

oh please, she's the least of them and the only other people that are into her outside of Prince fans are the fans of the other musicians she fucked.