Emesem - that's a good point...I wonder what things would be like with that too, perhaps him and Mayte would have stayed together. Part of what I like about Emancipation is the joy and hopefulness of that era for him and since then things changed dramatically, its like 1996 was the last time we saw Prince as we knew him.

Still, things have been looking up musically in recent years 2007 onwards.

emesem said:

At the time, I though this set was a good, albeit flawed, first volley in a new era for our guy but alas I think the death of his son really changed everything. Had the little guy survived, I think we'd be talking about a very different person now.

I have experience in that area and I won't go into it past that but, I know how (partly / pehaps) how P was feeling when his son died. I actually heard a 'rumor' it was 2 kids but again, that was just a ruomr. I can easily see Prince, Mayte and their son who would've been 15 now.

WoW !!! Time does fly ...

Se7en said:

Most (if not all) of the songwriting is top-shelf, and the vocal deliveries are great. I think I will listen to it tonight . . . "plastic" production notwithstanding, it's a fine album.

Sidenote: aside from Pearl Jam, Radiohead and NIN, I don't listen to much from the mid-to-late 90s. What a horrible time for music.

I agree with your statement wholeheartedly....

eireboy34 said:

funkaholic1972 said:

I agree with Boris here, Emancipation was his first really bad album IMO. I was so excited about his newgained freedom, but what a plastic garbage we got with that album...

Admit it! You are the reincarnation of Helen Keller!!!

No, I have a sound pair of ears and eyes, unlike some of you people here who dig these three piles of steaming crap!

Most of the production still sounds just as plasticy and dated as it did 15 years ago, which is a shame as I think there are some really good melodies on the album which were spoilt.

I still listen to these:

• Right Back Here in My Arms
• Somebody's Somebody
• Courtin' Time
• Curious Child
• Holy River
• Slave
• New World
• The Love We Make

But most of the rest is skippable.

funkaholic1972 said:

eireboy34 said:

Admit it! You are the reincarnation of Helen Keller!!!

No, I have a sound pair of ears and eyes, unlike some of you people here who dig these three piles of steaming crap!

OK....Helen!

funkaholic1972 said:

BorisFishpaw said:

Even that wouldn't help IMO. Even if you edited it down to a single disc of the best tracks, it still doesn't come close to his previous album The Gold Experience in terms of Songwriting, fire and musical range. There's more ideas and diversity in The Gold Experience's 12 songs than Emancipation's 36, which is what makes it feel like such a missed opportunity.

I agree with Boris here, Emancipation was his first really bad album IMO. I was so excited about his newgained freedom, but what a plastic garbage we got with that album...

Wow, I couldn't disagree with you anymore strongly about Emancipation being "his first really bad album," it's probably one of my five favourites.

I would gladly take any 13 songs from Emancipation over the thirteen songs that were on Diamonds and Pearls. Likewise, I'd take any nine songs from Emancipation over the nine songs that were on Lovesexy or Batman.

For me, EMANCIPATION is a wonderful 3 disc set!

It has a fantastic production quality to it with excellent songs that seem so honest, joyous and heart felt. Some of my all time favorite Prince songs are from Emanicaption...The Holy River, Dreaming About U, Somebody's Somebody, Sleep Around, Right Back Here In My Arms, In This Bed I Scream, Friend Lover Sister Wife, Email, My Computer, Soul Sanctuary, Emancipation and more.

I remember getting in line along with what seemed to be close to 100 people at the Virgin Mega Record Store in Ontario, California around 5 or 6 pm for a midnight release sale. I bought 2 copies and was just in love with the entire concept and sound! I couldn't get enough of it and to this day, I am still in AWE of the album.

madhouseman said:

It has sadly become very dated and uninteresting. This was the album that he referred to as 'the dawn' of his new career. I guess it really was, if he was trying to announce the new phase of his career as boring and a series of missed opportunities.

That and the fact that it was touted as "the album he was born to make" and "the sound of freedom" etc. was what made it so depressing. I remember thinking at the time that if this was the "sound of freedom" then he ought to get himself back into the 'slavery' of a major label contract again ASAP!

It's strange really that his WB years were so markedly better in terms of quality and experimentation than when he was 'free'. You'd think that he'd take the opportunity of being free and able to put out what he liked to release some wild and crazy experimental stuff that would've been considered too uncommercial for a major to release. Instead, the opposite seemed to happen, and his post WB output seemed to be much safer, less experimental and consciously trying to follow trends for commercial success.

I wouldn't eat a pizza if most of the topping consisted of shit.

I don't do Emancipation.

So no one else still likes Face Down then, no? One of his few successful raps imho

That and Pope and maybe one or two others i've forgotten

BorisFishpaw said:

madhouseman said:

It has sadly become very dated and uninteresting. This was the album that he referred to as 'the dawn' of his new career. I guess it really was, if he was trying to announce the new phase of his career as boring and a series of missed opportunities.

That and the fact that it was touted as "the album he was born to make" and "the sound of freedom" etc. was what made it so depressing. I remember thinking at the time that if this was the "sound of freedom" then he ought to get himself back into the 'slavery' of a major label contract again ASAP!

It's strange really that his WB years were so markedly better in terms of quality and experimentation than when he was 'free'. You'd think that he'd take the opportunity of being free and able to put out what he liked to release some wild and crazy experimental stuff that would've been considered too uncommercial for a major to release. Instead, the opposite seemed to happen, and his post WB output seemed to be much safer, less experimental and consciously trying to follow trends for commercial success.

I see your point but something like The Rainbow Children is fairly uncommercial. The same could be argued of Xpectation, N.E.W.S. and C-Note even if they are not all that different from Madhouse. It was also rather uncommercial for him to release a three disc live album that ignored most of his hits and featured a good portion of songs from his latest album.

I think the reality for Prince, as with the vast majority of musicians, is that his most daring work was done while he was younger. You seem quite high on The Gold Experience but it's not really experimental. If Prince had been an independant artist starting in 1990 I don't think he would have released anything that was much more experimental than what he released from late 1996-present. His most experimental work was done circa 1985-1986.

Here's a question that has nothing to do with the quality of the music:

Does history play any part in how a song or album is remembered? More to the point: the loss of his child (who is strongly represented on that album), the divorce from Mayte (who is strongly represented on that album in the positive sense), and the lingering WB breakup songs . . . do they affect how the music is absorbed and enjoyed?

The references to his unborn child (Let's Have A Baby, My Computer, Style, the photo of the nursery in the large format booklet, even Sex In The Summer samples the baby's heartbeat): those might be too sad, awkward, or personal knowing what happened. The album was released mere weeks after his baby's death. On a subconscious level, one might "dismiss" those songs without even knowing why.

The songs that refer to Mayte (Jam Of The Year "new Puerto Rican score", Style, Friend Lover Sister Mother Wife, etc.) . . . while not necessarily "sad" to listen to, his love songs at the time were so totally written for HER that they're not generic enough for the average listener to mentally dedicate to their own wife. Similar in fashion to how Paul McCartney often referenced his wife Linda specifically by name.

The WB breakup songs: I will admit, hearing the anger and song-after-song of FU WB was cool at the time. 16 years later, it all seems old news and seems like he could've been a little more professional. After a while, those songs aren't really "fun" to listen to all the time.

Also, does an album's perceived "success" act as a barometer for how well it's received? Meaning, if an album is a success, then someone goes into it with a preconceived notion that it has to be "good". They might like it because everyone else likes it, or because it's on the radio or their friends play it. On the other hand, a "flop" is perceived as low quality, not worth listening to. Emancipation was perceived as a flop.

Finally, the album was too large and too expensive at the time. That itself turned away the casual listener.

I've gone on record saying that I love the album. I'm just offering some opinion on why it didn't have more of a following.

Take away the packaging, take away the pricing, I'd love to hear people's honest opinions of EACH SONG on it's own with no information other than what the song title is. Don't tell them what album it's from, what year, etc. Digest each song as its own creation and I think a lot of people would have different opinions.

Se7en said:

Here's a question that has nothing to do with the quality of the music:

Does history play any part in how a song or album is remembered? More to the point: the loss of his child (who is strongly represented on that album), the divorce from Mayte (who is strongly represented on that album in the positive sense), and the lingering WB breakup songs . . . do they affect how the music is absorbed and enjoyed?

The references to his unborn child (Let's Have A Baby, My Computer, Style, the photo of the nursery in the large format booklet, even Sex In The Summer samples the baby's heartbeat): those might be too sad, awkward, or personal knowing what happened. The album was released mere weeks after his baby's death. On a subconscious level, one might "dismiss" those songs without even knowing why.

The songs that refer to Mayte (Jam Of The Year "new Puerto Rican score", Style, Friend Lover Sister Mother Wife, etc.) . . . while not necessarily "sad" to listen to, his love songs at the time were so totally written for HER that they're not generic enough for the average listener to mentally dedicate to their own wife. Similar in fashion to how Paul McCartney often referenced his wife Linda specifically by name.

The WB breakup songs: I will admit, hearing the anger and song-after-song of FU WB was cool at the time. 16 years later, it all seems old news and seems like he could've been a little more professional. After a while, those songs aren't really "fun" to listen to all the time.

Also, does an album's perceived "success" act as a barometer for how well it's received? Meaning, if an album is a success, then someone goes into it with a preconceived notion that it has to be "good". They might like it because everyone else likes it, or because it's on the radio or their friends play it. On the other hand, a "flop" is perceived as low quality, not worth listening to. Emancipation was perceived as a flop.

Finally, the album was too large and too expensive at the time. That itself turned away the casual listener.

I've gone on record saying that I love the album. I'm just offering some opinion on why it didn't have more of a following.

Take away the packaging, take away the pricing, I'd love to hear people's honest opinions of EACH SONG on it's own with no information other than what the song title is. Don't tell them what album it's from, what year, etc. Digest each song as its own creation and I think a lot of people would have different opinions.

I definitely agree with your last point. If you take the songs as their own individual thing I think it's easier to appreciate them.

As to your point about the success of an album influencing how it is perceived that could be true for some people. I don't think that influences my opinion. Diamonds and Pearls (which was probably his second or third most successful album) is possibly my least favourite. I would also like to think that I am not swayed by other fans opinions. An album like Lovesexy, while it was a commercial disappointment, is often hailed by fans as a masterpiece but I've always found it to be pretty average.

As far as the lyrics go I tend to ignore them so I don't think that is a factor in whether or not I enjoy Emancipation but it may be for other people.

jaawwnn said:

So no one else still likes Face Down then, no? One of his few successful raps imho

That and Pope and maybe one or two others i've forgotten

I still like Face Down. However, when Emancipation came out I was a teenager and I can remember exactly where I bought it and who was with me.

There were several record stores in town back then and I had a really great time ahead of me so some songs always bring me back there...

I still like the album. The 2nd disc is damn-near perfect and, alone, can stand up to any "classic" Prince albums for those that dig that type of music. I could probably piece together half of a good album from the other 2 discs. Let's see... there's The Love We Make, One of Us, Sleep Around, Damned If I Do, In this Bed I Scream, maybe Human Body. I like White Mansion, Right Back Here In My Arms, I Can't Make You Love Me, and My Computer as well but I'm not sure they constitute anything more than filler (that I happen to like).

Hearing La, la,la means I Love you and Betcha By Golly Wow marked the 1st time I felt Prince was losing his mojo. I'd heard a few bad songs from him-- goes with the territory-- but bad remakes are unforgivable in my mind. He had obviously let his feelings (for marriage and family) cloud his musical judgment. I wouldn't begrudge him that happiness though so I wasn't upset about it. It was just an observation I made.

I love the whole album actually. The first CD has a few more slow moments than the others, the 2nd and 3rd are really strong. My Computer always makes me smile. There's little to no way he'd be about to release in 2011 wit hthe same success though. he is in a different place, and so is his audience.

Yes, hard to believe it was almost 15 years ago. Here in Switzerland, the promotion was pretty good. The album went to #1 on the charts. I actually "bunked off school" just to go to a larger town (45-minute train ride) and be able to buy "Emancipation" on the day it was released... I was an even more obsessive fan back then...

Overall, I still like it. Yes, the production (the so-called "plastic production") could have been way better, but there's some excellent songwriting on this album and some songs are, IMHO, very good or even excellent ("In This Bed I Scream", "Joint 2 Joint", etc.).

emesem said:

wow a wide range of opinions on this one. I'm pro-Emanciaption overall. While there are some cringe-inducing songs of prince's awful New-Jack phase on here (Eg "Mr. Happy," "right back here in my arms"), I still think this album was the last time Prince actually tried to make a GREAT album. He was aiming for the fences on this one.

And how fuckin' sad is it that the last time he actually TRIED to make a great album (which was 15 friggin' years ago), this was the best he could come up with??!! For those that think he's still got it in him to do some kick ass music, please take note.

alexnvrmnd777 said:

emesem said:

wow a wide range of opinions on this one. I'm pro-Emanciaption overall. While there are some cringe-inducing songs of prince's awful New-Jack phase on here (Eg "Mr. Happy," "right back here in my arms"), I still think this album was the last time Prince actually tried to make a GREAT album. He was aiming for the fences on this one.

And how fuckin' sad is it that the last time he actually TRIED to make a great album (which was 15 friggin' years ago), this was the best he could come up with??!! For those that think he's still got it in him to do some kick ass music, please take note.

well this could have been a better album if it was cut down to 10-12 tracks. So IMO its not exactly the best he could come up with.

hhhhdmt said:

alexnvrmnd777 said:

And how fuckin' sad is it that the last time he actually TRIED to make a great album (which was 15 friggin' years ago), this was the best he could come up with??!! For those that think he's still got it in him to do some kick ass music, please take note.

well this could have been a better album if it was cut down to 10-12 tracks. So IMO its not exactly the best he could come up with.

Thanks for this, Helen.

Emancipation saw Prince getting more and more established as mediocre. It's not great, it's not bad! It's just solid! That's the reason why there's no way to compile one 12-track best of cd.

The most attractive part of the album he was born to make was the intention, not the result.

[Edited 5/12/11 21:54pm]