rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

It's his sellout/mainstream album (at least until 3121) but hey, the singles are HUGE and the album-tracks are solid. Jughead and Push are the exception (just plain dull) but hey, they're still better than Push It Up or Freaks on This Side, for example.

Also, I enjoy this album because the direct sequel was a return to the "freaky/no rules" Prince (LoveSymbol) so D&P proudly stands as a temporal & HUGELY successful experiment (commercial pop/R&B comeback after the GB "disappointment"...)

I actually kind of like "Push" (the strings are nice). As a fellow Kiss fan I think you will understand this. There's a Paul Stanley quote about the '80s albums. Maybe it's specifically about the new tracks on Smashes, Thrashes and Hits ("You Make Me Rock Hard" and "Let's Put the X in Sex"). Anyway, it's something like he's not ashamed of them because those were the best songs that he was capable of writing at that time. For me Diamonds and Pearls is well below the best of what he was capable of at that time. That may be why I am slightly more forgiving of albums like Newpower Soul and Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic. Those albums are probably not as good as Diamonds and Pearls but that may have been the best he was capable of at that time.

Obviously you are bang on, it was a huge success so it certainly achieved it's goal but I think it could have done that while still giving us better album tracks. I'll have to give it another spin later today.

hehe I remember that P.Stanley quote (and I quite like Let's Put the X in Sex ) but I think that Prince EXACTLY knew what he was doing with D&P: he finally UPDATED his sound (GB sounded like a 1989 album) with a tight new band, he delivered a commercial & WINNING set of singles (and I think that Money Don't Matter Tonight is a definite masterpiece and not commercial at all!) and other album-tracks that are completely decent or even very good (Strollin' or Live 4 Love, as stated above ) and overall he reinvented himelf for the early-90's, while other 80's acts were already forgotten.

So I think that the whole D&P was a cold, calculated affair (and I understand if some fans cannot swallow that coldness) but the songs were top-notch because Prince was still on a roll. Some fans may not like the 1991-1993 sound/era, but the songs were still classics. The dip in quality (for me) didn't start until 1996...

In conclusion: D&P was EXACTLY the album that Prince needed in 1991. And he delivered in 1992 the longer, freakier version of D&P for the fans... The whole 1991-1993 era was a success...

JoeTyler said:

rialb said:

I actually kind of like "Push" (the strings are nice). As a fellow Kiss fan I think you will understand this. There's a Paul Stanley quote about the '80s albums. Maybe it's specifically about the new tracks on Smashes, Thrashes and Hits ("You Make Me Rock Hard" and "Let's Put the X in Sex"). Anyway, it's something like he's not ashamed of them because those were the best songs that he was capable of writing at that time. For me Diamonds and Pearls is well below the best of what he was capable of at that time. That may be why I am slightly more forgiving of albums like Newpower Soul and Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic. Those albums are probably not as good as Diamonds and Pearls but that may have been the best he was capable of at that time.

Obviously you are bang on, it was a huge success so it certainly achieved it's goal but I think it could have done that while still giving us better album tracks. I'll have to give it another spin later today.

hehe I remember that P.Stanley quote (and I quite like Let's Put the X in Sex ) but I think that Prince EXACTLY knew what he was doing with D&P: he finally UPDATED his sound (GB sounded like a 1989 album) with a tight new band, he delivered a commercial & WINNING set of singles (and I think that Money Don't Matter Tonight is a definite masterpiece and not commercial at all!) and other album-tracks that are completely decent or even very good (Strollin' or Live 4 Love, as stated above ) and overall he reinvented himelf for the early-90's, while other 80's acts were already forgotten.

So I think that the whole D&P was a cold, calculated affair (and I understand if some fans cannot swallow that coldness) but the songs were top-notch because Prince was still on a roll. Some fans may not like the 1991-1993 sound/era, but the songs were still classics. The dip in quality (for me) didn't start until 1996...

In conclusion: D&P was EXACTLY the album that Prince needed in 1991. And he delivered in 1992 the longer, freakier version of D&P for the fans... The whole 1991-1993 era was a success...

i agree that prince needed commercial success with diamonds and pearls and i am fine with it. The commercial songs are good but why did songs like "jughead" end up on the record and not "open book", " i wonder" "get blue". Those songs should have been on this album, a few songs (like jughead) should not have been here. Then the album would be a classic

hhhhdmt said:

The commercial songs are good but why did songs like "jughead" end up on the record and not "open book",

That was one of his stupdiest mistakes.

hhhhdmt said:

JoeTyler said:

hehe I remember that P.Stanley quote (and I quite like Let's Put the X in Sex ) but I think that Prince EXACTLY knew what he was doing with D&P: he finally UPDATED his sound (GB sounded like a 1989 album) with a tight new band, he delivered a commercial & WINNING set of singles (and I think that Money Don't Matter Tonight is a definite masterpiece and not commercial at all!) and other album-tracks that are completely decent or even very good (Strollin' or Live 4 Love, as stated above ) and overall he reinvented himelf for the early-90's, while other 80's acts were already forgotten.

So I think that the whole D&P was a cold, calculated affair (and I understand if some fans cannot swallow that coldness) but the songs were top-notch because Prince was still on a roll. Some fans may not like the 1991-1993 sound/era, but the songs were still classics. The dip in quality (for me) didn't start until 1996...

In conclusion: D&P was EXACTLY the album that Prince needed in 1991. And he delivered in 1992 the longer, freakier version of D&P for the fans... The whole 1991-1993 era was a success...

i agree that prince needed commercial success with diamonds and pearls and i am fine with it. The commercial songs are good but why did songs like "jughead" end up on the record and not "open book", " i wonder" "get blue". Those songs should have been on this album, a few songs (like jughead) should not have been here. Then the album would be a classic

I strongly think that the idea was to create an album full of " songs" , Open Book and I Wonder are too slow/dark...perhaps he should have rearranged them for Come... (?)

D&P is his "feel good, sing and dance" commercial album, and hey, it was about time, specially after the messy & overlong GB or the pseudo-spiritual bullshit of LoveSexy (I still don't get that album, despite some classic songs...)

open book is kinda dark but i wonder is a catchy song about wondering whether a girl thinks about you, it would have fit well. The chorus is good too. Get Blue would have fit in as well. Anyway i like the hit songs on the album, plus "thunder" but as a whole i have mixed feelings about it.

D&P has some great moments: Thunder, Willing & Able, Walk Don't Walk, Strollin', MDM2N. The rest are fair to poor, the singles are largely commercial guff IMO, but they did the trick, so.

Gold Experience

Graffiti Bridge

Crystal Ball

The Vault (can't believe people don't dig this...so many solid tracks, but When the Lights Go Down alone makes this top 5 for me)

Emancipation

Come

D&P

Symbol

NPS

Chaos & Disorder

Exodus

Rave

The Truth (the one and only Prince album I never got into)

Diamonds and Pearls has a lot going for it. Minus Tony M (Whose rapping is better here than on Symbol or Goldnigga) it has the superior pop tune CREAM, which got me into Prince in the first case, a great ballad Diamonds and Pearls, Insatiable is a great sexy ballad, Thunder is an excellent rock song, Daddy Pop a good light hearted pop pastiche in which he humours himself. Push is a bit corny, but Prince's and Rosies rapping makes up for Tony M, Strollin is also quite good. Money don't matter 2nite has a great feel and vibe and quite deep. The only wack jams are Jughead and Walk don't walk which sounds like a Savuka reject. And then Gett Off is great funk and roll. Live 4 Love is also a very complex and excellent rock ballad, again only Tony M lets it down. Willing and able is also poorly constructed filler than sounds rather Scatterlings of Africa type jive.

JoeTyler said:

rialb said:

I actually kind of like "Push" (the strings are nice). As a fellow Kiss fan I think you will understand this. There's a Paul Stanley quote about the '80s albums. Maybe it's specifically about the new tracks on Smashes, Thrashes and Hits ("You Make Me Rock Hard" and "Let's Put the X in Sex"). Anyway, it's something like he's not ashamed of them because those were the best songs that he was capable of writing at that time. For me Diamonds and Pearls is well below the best of what he was capable of at that time. That may be why I am slightly more forgiving of albums like Newpower Soul and Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic. Those albums are probably not as good as Diamonds and Pearls but that may have been the best he was capable of at that time.

Obviously you are bang on, it was a huge success so it certainly achieved it's goal but I think it could have done that while still giving us better album tracks. I'll have to give it another spin later today.

hehe I remember that P.Stanley quote (and I quite like Let's Put the X in Sex ) but I think that Prince EXACTLY knew what he was doing with D&P: he finally UPDATED his sound (GB sounded like a 1989 album) with a tight new band, he delivered a commercial & WINNING set of singles (and I think that Money Don't Matter Tonight is a definite masterpiece and not commercial at all!) and other album-tracks that are completely decent or even very good (Strollin' or Live 4 Love, as stated above ) and overall he reinvented himelf for the early-90's, while other 80's acts were already forgotten.

So I think that the whole D&P was a cold, calculated affair (and I understand if some fans cannot swallow that coldness) but the songs were top-notch because Prince was still on a roll. Some fans may not like the 1991-1993 sound/era, but the songs were still classics. The dip in quality (for me) didn't start until 1996...

In conclusion: D&P was EXACTLY the album that Prince needed in 1991. And he delivered in 1992 the longer, freakier version of D&P for the fans... The whole 1991-1993 era was a success...

Well, I have listened to the album three times between today and yesterday and I still feel the same way about it. It's probably BS for me to say that it is his worst album of the '90s, I would much rather listen to it than Newpower Soul or Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic, but I still think that, for me at least, it is his most disappointing album of the '90s (followed very closely by the aforementioned two albums). I think you nailed the reason why I don't like it when you said it was a "cold, calculated affair." Just the title of "Daddy Pop" makes me cringe! I've always felt that "Gett Off" was a horrible song and completely lacked the cleverness/humour that made his previous "raunchy" songs great. "Cream" and "Diamonds and Pearls" are fantastic for what they are, very commercial singles. "Money Don't Matter 2 Night" is great. Otherwise, I find the album pretty lacklustre. I think he did "Thunder" much better on the next album ("3 Chains O' Gold"). "Daddp Pop" is mildly annoying. "Strollin'" is actually pretty good, a bit of a different sound for Prince. "Willing and Able" isn't terrible but it's a little too lightweight. "Walk Don't Walk" doesn't really do anything for me, it's just kind of there. "Jughead" I kind of like. I'm sure the fact that it is one of his most hated songs has something to do with why I like it. It's incredibly stupid but it's pretty funky and it just makes me want to bounce. I also like "Push," particularly the strings. "Insatiable" isn't bad but he's done it much better before and it doesn't really bring anything new. I don't know why I don't dig "Live 4 Love" more, it seems to be a pretty popular song but it's never really done anything for me.

For me Tony M. has never been a huge problem. Yes, I would have preferred it if Prince had never met the guy and did not do as much rap as he did in the '90s but Tony has always been a fairly minor annoyance that is easily ignored. I don't think he is the main reason that I don't like this album and I certainly do not hate him as much as some fans do.

I'm probably grasping a bit here but the sound of the album kind of turns me off a bit. Maybe it's the updated sound that you mentioned? I love the next album and the other tracks from this era that have surfaced (The Vault: Old Friends 4 Sale, "Don't Talk 2 Strangers") and I think that , while kind of messy, is a pretty great album but I do not think I will ever grow to love Diamonds and Pearls.

'The Truth' is really underrated on the org.

I don't understand. It's one of his best efforts of the 90's.

Adorecream said:

Diamonds and Pearls has a lot going for it. Minus Tony M (Whose rapping is better here than on Symbol or Goldnigga) it has the superior pop tune CREAM, which got me into Prince in the first case, a great ballad Diamonds and Pearls, Insatiable is a great sexy ballad, Thunder is an excellent rock song, Daddy Pop a good light hearted pop pastiche in which he humours himself. Push is a bit corny, but Prince's and Rosies rapping makes up for Tony M, Strollin is also quite good. Money don't matter 2nite has a great feel and vibe and quite deep. The only wack jams are Jughead and Walk don't walk which sounds like a Savuka reject. And then Gett Off is great funk and roll. Live 4 Love is also a very complex and excellent rock ballad, again only Tony M lets it down. Willing and able is also poorly constructed filler than sounds rather Scatterlings of Africa type jive.

U crazy...Willing and Able is the best track on D&P.

i havent heard kamasutra or the truth, so im not including them. and im not including the hits because its only those few songs.

graffiti bridge

crystal ball

emancipation

the gold experience

diamonds and pearls

come

symbol

rave

chaos and disorder

exodus

newpower soul

[Edited 4/22/11 5:56am]

1. The Truth

2. The Vault: Old Friends 4 Sale

3. Crystal Ball

4. Graffiti Bridge

5.

6. Chaos and Disorder

7. Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic

8. The Gold experience

9. Emancipation

10. Diamonds and Pearls

11. Come

The rest are not Prince albums.

irreverence said:

1. The Truth

2. The Vault: Old Friends 4 Sale

3. Crystal Ball

4. Graffiti Bridge

5.

6. Chaos and Disorder

7. Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic

8. The Gold experience

9. Emancipation

10. Diamonds and Pearls

11. Come

The rest are not Prince albums.

technically some of those arent prince albums either theyre albums. and just because you dont like it doesnt mean its not a real album by him.

Tremolina said:

'The Truth' is really underrated on the org.

I don't understand. It's one of his best efforts of the 90's.

Yes! The best of the 90's in my opinion.

dyvrdown said:

irreverence said:

1. The Truth

2. The Vault: Old Friends 4 Sale

3. Crystal Ball

4. Graffiti Bridge

5.

6. Chaos and Disorder

7. Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic

8. The Gold experience

9. Emancipation

10. Diamonds and Pearls

11. Come

The rest are not Prince albums.

technically some of those arent prince albums either theyre albums. and just because you dont like it doesnt mean its not a real album by him.

Okay, that's a valid point. But what I mean is that the man released these albums in his own name or symbol. The others are NPG albums, am I not right? Kamasutra I've never counted as anything, i haven't heard it nor missed the pleasure, but that might be wrong of me.

1. Crystal Ball (including 'The Truth')

2. Grafitti Bridge

3. Emanicpation

4. Symbol

5. New Power Soul

6. Diamonds & Pearls

7. The Gold Experience

8. Come

9. Chaos and Disorder

10. The Vault

11. Exodus

12. Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic

The Undertaker

Grafitti Bridge

The Love Symbol

D&P

The Gold Experience

Chaos and Disorder

Come

Rave

Crystal Ball

The Truth

Exodus

The Hits

Emancipation

Gold Nigga

New Power Soul

Kamasutra

meisme said:

The Undertaker

Grafitti Bridge

The Love Symbol

D&P

The Gold Experience

Chaos and Disorder

Come

Rave

Crystal Ball

The Truth

Exodus

The Hits

Emancipation

Gold Nigga

New Power Soul

Kamasutra

I forgot The Vault! Put it before Gold Nigga