NouveauDance said:

muleFunk said:

Who,outside of the fanbase, would jump at buying a old Prince record?

It's just not financially rewarding for both parties.

An old Prince record would sell a load more than a new one.

All they'd need is a little -gasp- promotion. People - fans and casuals alike - would love to get their hands on a remastered 1999, PR and SOTT. The others might drop off in sales, but that's no different to any other artist. Prince has a huge audience, just because he's happy to squander his legacy, he still has one.

Ding! Ding! Ding! That is the whole problem, right there, in a nutshell!

databank said:

I don't c what Prince has to gain with a deal with WB before he gets his masters back. Then he can have them rereleased by any major he wants (including WB if he choses to), negociate a contract on his terms, and get 'em back whenever he wants.

It would be silly to do anything as long as WB has got the masters.

He claims that he will get the masters back after 30 years, although the statute says 35 years. But even if 30 years is the right number, he won't get Purple Rain back for three more years, and he won't get SOTT back until 2017. Would you stake money on CDs still being a viable product in 2017, or even three years from now? We may be close to the point where only a small market of audiophiles buys music in physical form.

electricberet said:

databank said:

I don't c what Prince has to gain with a deal with WB before he gets his masters back. Then he can have them rereleased by any major he wants (including WB if he choses to), negociate a contract on his terms, and get 'em back whenever he wants.

It would be silly to do anything as long as WB has got the masters.

He claims that he will get the masters back after 30 years, although the statute says 35 years. But even if 30 years is the right number, he won't get Purple Rain back for three more years, and he won't get SOTT back until 2017. Would you stake money on CDs still being a viable product in 2017, or even three years from now? We may be close to the point where only a small market of audiophiles buys music in physical form.

Honestly, I think vinyls may be making a comeback, of sorts. I was in Radio Shack, this past weekend and while I was looking around. I noticed that they had several new stereo systems that you can connect an iPod or mp3 player to. Nothing surprising about that, I know.

The surprising part, for me anyway, was they all had turntables. I couldn't even remember the last time, I'd seen turntables for sale in Radio Shack.

databank said:

I don't c what Prince has to gain with a deal with WB before he gets his masters back. Then he can have them rereleased by any major he wants (including WB if he choses to), negociate a contract on his terms, and get 'em back whenever he wants.

It would be silly to do anything as long as WB has got the masters.

Well, if the 35 years number for getting his masters back (which I remember from several discussions here) is correct, then the timeline would be a real issue for this scenario. He would only be able to get out one remastered album per year from 2013 onwards (starting with For You, that only we hardcore fans know), leaving PR for 2019 (with Prince being 61 then) and SOTT for 2022 (Prince at 64). I can't see any efficient marketing campaign for a 60+ year old dude if the remastered albums come out on a one-per-year basis. It could be a good deal even for Prince to agree on a release of remasters of at least 1999, PR and SOTT within one year, accompanied by a massive marketing campaign and with lots of bonus material attached, the sooner the better (2011 or 2012).

i want blu-ray multi channel sound remasters otherwise i'm not playing! who needs these crazy dated CDs with their crummy "STEREO" these day's anyway???

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

electricberet said:

He claims that he will get the masters back after 30 years, although the statute says 35 years. But even if 30 years is the right number, he won't get Purple Rain back for three more years, and he won't get SOTT back until 2017. Would you stake money on CDs still being a viable product in 2017, or even three years from now? We may be close to the point where only a small market of audiophiles buys music in physical form.

Honestly, I think vinyls may be making a comeback, of sorts. I was in Radio Shack, this past weekend and while I was looking around. I noticed that they had several new stereo systems that you can connect an iPod or mp3 player to. Nothing surprising about that, I know.

The surprising part, for me anyway, was they all had turntables. I couldn't even remember the last time, I'd seen turntables for sale in Radio Shack.

Yes, that's true. There have been stories about young people finding their parents' old vinyl records and buying new turntables to play them, then starting their own vinyl collections. This is great for record companies, because you can't illegally download a vinyl record. But it's not clear whether this is a long-term trend or just a passing fad. You can't take a vinyl record to the gym or play it in your car.

databank said:

I don't c what Prince has to gain with a deal with WB before he gets his masters back. Then he can have them rereleased by any major he wants (including WB if he choses to), negociate a contract on his terms, and get 'em back whenever he wants.

It would be silly to do anything as long as WB has got the masters.

See, it's really not that simple, nor easy.

The rights that revert back to Prince - 35 years after the date of transfer to WB, according to the 1976 US Copyright Act - are not ALL the rights that are needed to release remasters.

For one, the US Copryight act grants copyright protection to ALL the perfomers on a sound recording, unless their contributions are, legally speaking, works made for hire, which they however are not, to my expectation. This basically means that deals have to be made with all those artists as well, if they want to be legally in the clear on this.

Second, there are also copyrights on the original artwork of the albums. The pictures, the design, the drawings, all that is also copyrighted. And it's not likely that Prince owns those rights but WB, at least I do not expect that he does (at least not all of it), while I can't imagine many people buying remastered CD's without the original artwork either. So there are most likely deals to be made there too. With WB.

[Edited 4/19/11 11:05am]

I honestly think that they are talking, but still playing hardball.

Tremolina said:

databank said:

I don't c what Prince has to gain with a deal with WB before he gets his masters back. Then he can have them rereleased by any major he wants (including WB if he choses to), negociate a contract on his terms, and get 'em back whenever he wants.

It would be silly to do anything as long as WB has got the masters.

See, it's really not that simple, nor easy.

The rights that revert back to Prince - 35 years after the date of transfer to WB, according to the 1976 US Copyright Act - are not ALL the rights that are needed to release remasters.

For one, the US Copryight act grants copyright protection to ALL the perfomers on a sound recording, unless their contributions are, legally speaking, works made for hire, which they however are not, to my expectation. This basically means that deals have to be made with all those artists as well, if they want to be legally in the clear on this.

Second, there are also copyrights on the original artwork of the albums. The pictures, the design, the drawings, all that is also copyrighted. And it's not likely that Prince owns those rights but WB, at least I do not expect that he does (at least not all of it), while I can't imagine many people buying remastered CD's without the original artwork either. So there are most likely deals to be made there too. With WB.

[Edited 4/19/11 11:05am]

Did Prince have written contracts with the musicians who played on his records? Has he already released any material including their contributions without their permission (for example, on the Crystal Ball set)? Somehow I don't think Prince's bandmates are holding the remasters up. On the other hand, I think Pete Best did get a share of the money from the first Beatles Anthology because he played drums on some of the tracks.

Tremolina said:

I honestly think that they are talking, but still playing hardball.

Yes, I think they are definitely talking. The glimmer of hope I cling to is that I believe Prince does want his back catalog to be remastered, albeit on his terms. As long as he is willing to pick up the phone, WMG will keep calling, because they want to make a deal.

electricberet said:

Tremolina said:

See, it's really not that simple, nor easy.

The rights that revert back to Prince - 35 years after the date of transfer to WB, according to the 1976 US Copyright Act - are not ALL the rights that are needed to release remasters.

For one, the US Copryight act grants copyright protection to ALL the perfomers on a sound recording, unless their contributions are, legally speaking, works made for hire, which they however are not, to my expectation. This basically means that deals have to be made with all those artists as well, if they want to be legally in the clear on this.

Second, there are also copyrights on the original artwork of the albums. The pictures, the design, the drawings, all that is also copyrighted. And it's not likely that Prince owns those rights but WB, at least I do not expect that he does (at least not all of it), while I can't imagine many people buying remastered CD's without the original artwork either. So there are most likely deals to be made there too. With WB.

[Edited 4/19/11 11:05am]

Did Prince have written contracts with the musicians who played on his records? Has he already released any material including their contributions without their permission (for example, on the Crystal Ball set)? Somehow I don't think Prince's bandmates are holding the remasters up. On the other hand, I think Pete Best did get a share of the money from the first Beatles Anthology because he played drums on some of the tracks.

I don't think so either, but I do think that they could. There is also the possibility of WB buying them out of their stakes, so they would still own part of those recordings copyrights, even after 35 years passed.

-

[Edited 4/19/11 11:45am]

This is some interesting stuff so after 35 years, what do the artist gets back? The sound recording masters, right? Because everything else would still be in the label's name then.

electricberet said:

Tremolina said:

I honestly think that they are talking, but still playing hardball.

Yes, I think they are definitely talking. The glimmer of hope I cling to is that I believe Prince does want his back catalog to be remastered, albeit on his terms. As long as he is willing to pick up the phone, WMG will keep calling, because they want to make a deal.

I really don't see why ANY of all the parties involved would be against remasters.

They just can't come to terms with eachother.

Tremolina said:

electricberet said:

Yes, I think they are definitely talking. The glimmer of hope I cling to is that I believe Prince does want his back catalog to be remastered, albeit on his terms. As long as he is willing to pick up the phone, WMG will keep calling, because they want to make a deal.

I really don't see why ANY of all the parties involved would be against remasters.

They just can't come to terms with eachother.

It has to do with MONEY. How much are they willing to settle just so Prince can get his earlier music back.

NouveauDance said:

SquirrelMeat said:

If Prince had any sense, he would try and do a deal now.

The masters clock is ticking in his favour, and the current WB directors will be looking to produce short term profits, so thay can strike a deal with EMI that will give them gold plated pensions.

In return for Prince agreeing to the remasters under the WB label, he should ask for early release of the master tapes and an increased artist percentage in the sales.

Prince could make one final big day. Agree to a worldwide hits tour with regional releasing of the remasters.

Then he can sit back on his millions and he'll have his masters.

Makes way too much sense to become a reality.

word...

Timmy84 said:

This is some interesting stuff so after 35 years, what do the artist gets back? The sound recording masters, right? Because everything else would still be in the label's name then.

All the performing artists, can reclaim their part in the sound recording's copyright after 35 years, if there are more than one on the recording, and if their contributions are not works for hire.

The beauty of For You and Prince is that these albums do not suffer these issues. When the rights to these albums revert after 35 years they are fully and completely owned by Prince. All the music and lyrics AND the full sound recording. But not the artwork perhabs.

Timmy84 said:

Tremolina said:

I really don't see why ANY of all the parties involved would be against remasters.

They just can't come to terms with eachother.

It has to do with MONEY. How much are they willing to settle just so Prince can get his earlier music back.

It is all speculation of course.

I don't see WB give up full control of the big albums 1999, PR and SOTT to Prince any time soon. (The first albums are different). Nor do I see them pay Prince at least half of the profits, while they have to make all the investments and do all the promotion. If that's what he demands (I wouldn't be surprised).

Tremolina said:

Timmy84 said:

This is some interesting stuff so after 35 years, what do the artist gets back? The sound recording masters, right? Because everything else would still be in the label's name then.

All the performing artists, can reclaim their part in the sound recording's copyright after 35 years, if there are more than one on the recording, and if their contributions are not works for hire.

The beauty of For You and Prince is that these albums do not suffer these issues. When the rights to these albums revert after 35 years they are fully and completely owned by Prince. All the music and lyrics AND the full sound recording. But not the artwork perhabs.

I see. So in other words, when it gets to Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999, Purple Rain, Around the World in a Day and the likes, there is a more heated battle with those albums as opposed to the sole musical composition from For You and Prince.

Tremolina said:

Timmy84 said:

It has to do with MONEY. How much are they willing to settle just so Prince can get his earlier music back.

It is all speculation of course.

I don't see WB give up full control of the big albums 1999, PR and SOTT to Prince any time soon. (The first albums are different). Nor do I see them pay Prince at least half of the profits, while they have to make all the investments and do all the promotion. If that's what he demands (I wouldn't be surprised).

Right. That's a steep fight when it comes to those albums - since these albums made him the artist he is now.

Tremolina said:

electricberet said:

Yes, I think they are definitely talking. The glimmer of hope I cling to is that I believe Prince does want his back catalog to be remastered, albeit on his terms. As long as he is willing to pick up the phone, WMG will keep calling, because they want to make a deal.

I really don't see why ANY of all the parties involved would be against remasters.

They just can't come to terms with eachother.

WMG is a business, and businesses need to make money; thus they do not pass up deals that are obviously beneficial to all sides. Prince, on the other hand, is not known for his rational thinking with regard to financial matters. He could decide not to issue remasters because he saw a chemtrail message in the sky warning him that remasters are evil. However, the public statements that Prince has made with regard to remasters suggest that he does in fact want them released.

Timmy84 said:

Tremolina said:

It is all speculation of course.

I don't see WB give up full control of the big albums 1999, PR and SOTT to Prince any time soon. (The first albums are different). Nor do I see them pay Prince at least half of the profits, while they have to make all the investments and do all the promotion. If that's what he demands (I wouldn't be surprised).

Right. That's a steep fight when it comes to those albums - since these albums made him the artist he is now.

They deserve to be treated right.

electricberet said:

Tremolina said:

I really don't see why ANY of all the parties involved would be against remasters.

They just can't come to terms with eachother.

WMG is a business, and businesses need to make money; thus they do not pass up deals that are obviously beneficial to all sides. Prince, on the other hand, is not known for his rational thinking with regard to financial matters. He could decide not to issue remasters because he saw a chemtrail message in the sky warning him that remasters are evil. However, the public statements that Prince has made with regard to remasters suggest that he does in fact want them released.

Yes on his terms

Same goes for WB

Both are big ol' hardheads

Tremolina said:

Timmy84 said:

Right. That's a steep fight when it comes to those albums - since these albums made him the artist he is now.

They deserve to be treated right.

I agree. More music from that album needs to be included too. But like you said, both Prince and WMG are hardheaded.

Timmy84 said:

Tremolina said:

They deserve to be treated right.

I agree. More music from that album needs to be included too. But like you said, both Prince and WMG are hardheaded.

If and when these albums are 'reborn' , I want it to happen uncensored in a beautifully crafted box, accompanied by a CD with b-sides and previously unreleased outtakes, a live cd of the according tour and a DVD of it as well, with all kinds of extra footage, interviews, interesting facts and details on the creation proces of the album, perhabs even a personal on it note by Prince and his band members.

Yep still dreaming

Tremolina said:

Timmy84 said:

Right. That's a steep fight when it comes to those albums - since these albums made him the artist he is now.

They deserve to be treated right.

Thats why i would rather see a deal with WB. If Prince has full control over the remasters he'll try and re-write history.

^^ Not so sure about that.

Anyway, he needs a major third party anyhow, if he wants do a worldwide release.

SquirrelMeat said:

Tremolina said:

They deserve to be treated right.

Thats why i would rather see a deal with WB. If Prince has full control over the remasters he'll try and re-write history.

I'm afraid you've got a point here. "Purple Rain" without "Darling Nikki" sold through Target without any promotion is not exactly what I'm hoping for...

EmancipationLover said:

SquirrelMeat said:

Thats why i would rather see a deal with WB. If Prince has full control over the remasters he'll try and re-write history.

I'm afraid you've got a point here. "Purple Rain" without "Darling Nikki" sold through Target without any promotion is not exactly what I'm hoping for...

At least Tipper Gore would finally have a version that she could play for her daughters.

Tremolina said:

^^ Not so sure about that.

Anyway, he needs a major third party anyhow, if he wants do a worldwide release.

I fear he will edit out the profanity, and more importantly, he won't look at from the view of what a purchaser wants to see, more what he thinks is artistically cool.

We'll get the 30 minute I would Die 4 U, rather than Wednesday and Electric Intercourse.

Just look at the Crystal Ball release to see the missed opportunities. Tell me how U wanna be done, So Dark, Get Loose, P Control. Filler rather than killer.

SquirrelMeat said:

Tremolina said:

^^ Not so sure about that.

Anyway, he needs a major third party anyhow, if he wants do a worldwide release.

I fear he will edit out the profanity, and more importantly, he won't look at from the view of what a purchaser wants to see, more what he thinks is artistically cool.

We'll get the 30 minute I would Die 4 U, rather than Wednesday and Electric Intercourse.

Just look at the Crystal Ball release to see the missed opportunities. Tell me how U wanna be done, So Dark, Get Loose, P Control. Filler rather than killer.

I think our best hope may be that he finds the project boring and delegates it to someone else.