databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Dude, please. "3121" is Prince desperately trying to imitate the stuff he did in 1986/87 and completely failing.

Hardly, he never used heavy basslines and beats like that back then, and his use of horns also was completely different with Eric and Atlanta. U could say that about a lot of other things he did these last few years (F.U.N.K. comes 2 mind, and most of MPLSound and 20ten) but 3121 was really not "80's-like". The first time Prince sounded heavy like that was when he incorporated Sonny and Michael into his band in 91, and really in 93 with "The Undertaker". My humble opinion anyway, i might be wrong

I say it's a mix of 1986/1987 Prince and the NPG's sound. Still, nothing ground breaking.

802 said:

databank said:

Hardly, he never used heavy basslines and beats like that back then, and his use of horns also was completely different with Eric and Atlanta. U could say that about a lot of other things he did these last few years (F.U.N.K. comes 2 mind, and most of MPLSound and 20ten) but 3121 was really not "80's-like". The first time Prince sounded heavy like that was when he incorporated Sonny and Michael into his band in 91, and really in 93 with "The Undertaker". My humble opinion anyway, i might be wrong

I say it's a mix of 1986/1987 Prince and the NPG's sound. Still, nothing ground breaking.

What does that mean?

Because people are listening to something like 20Ten while they have Purple Rain in the back of their minds. If it does not sound like what made him famous, people tend to say "it's crap"... when if you compare it to the "stars" who are supposedly hip today, he shows that a 50 ish year old man can still kick ass... even if he doesn't meet your own specifications of a "great Prince album". Every one has different opinions of what Prince should sound like, what he should record, etc.... it is not up to us. This has always been the journey of a true artist, and if he wants to record different sounds or write lyrics different than When Doves Cry, then let the man do it... most of the posts I read here are exactly why Prince hates critiques. Until you can get out there and show Prince up on stage then I really wouldn't open my mouth. I used to play really good basketball, but guess what..................................................... not now LOL and that doesn't mean I wish I could still play because I am grown up. I have a child, married, responsibilities and Prince has changed in many ways whereas A LOT of his fans have not. They're still stuck in the '80's and the dirty era.

Great albums since the name change and then change back:

The Undertaker (1995)

Exodus (1995)

The Slaughterhouse (2004)

3121 (2006)

Lotusflow3r (2009)

Great [full length] live releases since the name change and then change back:

The Sacifice Of Victor (1995)

Great albums before the name change:

Dirty Mind (1980)

Controversy (1981)

1999 (1982)

Purple Rain (1984)
Around The World In A Day (1985)
Parade (1986)
Sign O The Times (1987)
Black Album (1987)

LoveSexy (1988)

Batman (1989)
Diamonds and Pearls (1991)

(1992)

Gold Nigga (1993)

Great [full-length] live releases before the name change:

Prince And The Revolution: Live (1985)

LoveSexy Live (1989)

I think this says it all. After the name change (too be more accurrate, the initial recording sessions for Come in January 1993) he sort of became a cover version of himself, but still has made lots of great songs.

OldFriends4Sale said:

gunner82 said:

Is there a link for that vid? I'd LOVE to see that!!

get ready to dance, it kills all of Minneapolis sound lol

http://www.youtube.com/wa...KmHGPs6-dQ

I absolutely LOVED this track when it came out and even downloaded it. It shits all over MPLSound, and she probably did that track in her sleep! If SHE can do something that funky off the cuff, why can't he??

802 said:

Great albums before the name change:

Gold Nigga (1993)

WTF?!

I think that the music gets criticized a lot less than the lyrics. Prince still cranks out great tunes, but then he piles on conspiracy theories, hackneyed political rants, and JW religious babbling. It's kind of hard for people to pay attention to the music when the guy singing over top of it sounds like a crazy street-corner preacher.

When I grew up listening to prince in the late 70's and in the 80's he had something special. He had struggled to make a sound and music he wanted to make. He does not do that anymore. Even his lyrics were amazing then. Now his best songs are reworked unreleased songs that make a semi hit single. They are so reworked and over produced to be perfect they suck. Just my 2 cents.

IMO - Someone in this thread allready answered the question.

Its about the potential of Prince. Miles Davis said it, so did others.

He just did not evolve. Talent and responsibilty are related.

Illuminations said:

Because people are listening to something like 20Ten while they have Purple Rain in the back of their minds. If it does not sound like what made him famous, people tend to say "it's crap"... when if you compare it to the "stars" who are supposedly hip today, he shows that a 50 ish year old man can still kick ass...

Complete rubbish.

Illuminations said:

Until you can get out there and show Prince up on stage then I really wouldn't open my mouth.

Even bigger load of shit.

jonasjonas said:

IMO - Someone in this thread allready answered the question.

Its about the potential of Prince. Miles Davis said it, so did others.

He just did not evolve. Talent and responsibilty are related.

Who's to say that Prince isn't living up to his potential? He gave us a WHOLE decade of incredible music! Prince didn't just give us one album of greatness, then became super shotty after that! He held it down for a DECADE! THE GUY IS IN HIS 50'S & ALL WE DO SIT UP & TALK SHIT ABOUT HIM BECAUSE HE WON'T DO WHAT WE WANT HIM TO DO!! Now, if Prince was doing exact same stuff he used to do, everybody would bitch about that too. I guess there is no winning for Prince, huh.....[I'm sorry if go on a rant to your comment, it's nothing personal or anything. We all have right to our own opinion. I just don't understand this "Potential" everybody brings up all of the time.]

I have to comment on this. Quite the contrary to this statement, I believe the main reason he gets dogged (because it goes beyond rational criticism) is because he EVOLVED. People harp on the fact that he fiddled with hip hop and rap because to younger generations those forms define mainstream today. They were new musical forms at some point in the 80's and 90's and of course Prince was going to want to play with the new toys. Is the only way to remain experimental to confine himself to rock and funk sounds? As if rock and funk were not musical forms that he picked up from the people who came before him?

He's evolved in every sense of the word. The man has been married and divorced twice, he's lost a child. And people neglect to connect that kind of pain to his religious explorations. What do you think happens to a human being when they lose a child? Do you not look inward? If some people believe that his religious zest was overdone, it's not their right to have a say into what helped this man survive such a tragedy.

I've never looked to agree with everything he has written. Whether it was misogynistic sounding or proselytizing, or just plain odd. What attracts me to his lyrics is his poetic sense, the way he articulates thoughts, and his sense of humor, all qualities that remain to this day. And as an exercise, setting boundaries does force you to be creative in new ways. The man still writes as much about sex as he ever has, it's just concealed in new ways. An artist is relevant only when his music resonates with truth. His truth today is not the same as when he was 25 years old. As much as some accuse him of doing a by-the-numbers type of show, I see the exact opposite. He's expressing himself as he is today, not reprising the performer he was 30 years ago.

Obviously, I couldn't speak for everyone, but I know a lot of his fans love the fact that his sound has grown over the years. His talents cannot be constrained to narrow parameters. His musical vocabulary is rich and vast, and grows more sophisticated in time. I feel fortunate to get to hear his music, particularly his best output. A career is not built on failures, but failure is indispensable to success. So what if there are tunes on each release that I occasionally skip? I've always done that. 1999 is probably my favorite record ever, but I'm gonna skip through "Free" every time. For people to define the quality of an album by pointing to the weakest songs is crazy.

So yeah, a lot of critics don't have the above thoughts in mind when they "review" his newer material. For my money, smart criticism has to acknowledge context, it's all I'm saying.

tomato said:

He just did not evolve. Talent and responsibilty are related.

I have to comment on this. Quite the contrary to this statement, I believe the main reason he gets dogged (because it goes beyond rational criticism) is because he EVOLVED. People harp on the fact that he fiddled with hip hop and rap because to younger generations those forms define mainstream today. They were new musical forms at some point in the 80's and 90's and of course Prince was going to want to play with the new toys. Is the only way to remain experimental to confine himself to rock and funk sounds? As if rock and funk were not musical forms that he picked up from the people who came before him?

He's evolved in every sense of the word. The man has been married and divorced twice, he's lost a child. And people neglect to connect that kind of pain to his religious explorations. What do you think happens to a human being when they lose a child? Do you not look inward? If some people believe that his religious zest was overdone, it's not their right to have a say into what helped this man survive such a tragedy.

I've never looked to agree with everything he has written. Whether it was misogynistic sounding or proselytizing, or just plain odd. What attracts me to his lyrics is his poetic sense, the way he articulates thoughts, and his sense of humor, all qualities that remain to this day. And as an exercise, setting boundaries does force you to be creative in new ways. The man still writes as much about sex as he ever has, it's just concealed in new ways. An artist is relevant only when his music resonates with truth. His truth today is not the same as when he was 25 years old. As much as some accuse him of doing a by-the-numbers type of show, I see the exact opposite. He's expressing himself as he is today, not reprising the performer he was 30 years ago.

Obviously, I couldn't speak for everyone, but I know a lot of his fans love the fact that his sound has grown over the years. His talents cannot be constrained to narrow parameters. His musical vocabulary is rich and vast, and grows more sophisticated in time. I feel fortunate to get to hear his music, particularly his best output. A career is not built on failures, but failure is indispensable to success. So what if there are tunes on each release that I occasionally skip? I've always done that. 1999 is probably my favorite record ever, but I'm gonna skip through "Free" every time. For people to define the quality of an album by pointing to the weakest songs is crazy.

So yeah, a lot of critics don't have the above thoughts in mind when they "review" his newer material. For my money, smart criticism has to acknowledge context, it's all I'm saying.

This might be my favorite comment! I think you see my point more than anybody else has!

jonasjonas said:

IMO - Someone in this thread allready answered the question.

Its about the potential of Prince. Miles Davis said it, so did others.

He just did not evolve. Talent and responsibilty are related.

Yep I couldn't agree more. Instead of growing he went the other way toward pandering.

Because he won't act right!

Well, Prince is my biggest thing in music. Period!

But, artist that succeed in their entire lifespan, succeed because they challenge themselfes.

I dont se Prince challeging himself, sadly.

Where is the hardcore techno album, the exhibition of clayfigures, something more intelligent third, or whatever....

He lives in his ivory tower.

OldFriends4Sale said:

gunner82 said:

Is there a link for that vid? I'd LOVE to see that!!

get ready to dance, it kills all of Minneapolis sound lol

http://www.youtube.com/wa...KmHGPs6-dQ

She didn't even program that drum pattern/

It's a stock loop.

jonasjonas said:

Well, Prince is my biggest thing in music. Period!

But, artist that succeed in their entire lifespan, succeed because they challenge themselfes.

I dont se Prince challeging himself, sadly.

Where is the hardcore techno album, the exhibition of clayfigures, something more intelligent third, or whatever....

He lives in his ivory tower.

NouveauDance said:

Illuminations said:

Because people are listening to something like 20Ten while they have Purple Rain in the back of their minds. If it does not sound like what made him famous, people tend to say "it's crap"... when if you compare it to the "stars" who are supposedly hip today, he shows that a 50 ish year old man can still kick ass...

Complete rubbish.

Illuminations said:

Until you can get out there and show Prince up on stage then I really wouldn't open my mouth.

Even bigger load of shit.

OMG... someone other than you has an opinion... watch out Org... this idiot is pissed at my "opinion"... LOL

tomato said:

He just did not evolve. Talent and responsibilty are related.

I have to comment on this. Quite the contrary to this statement, I believe the main reason he gets dogged (because it goes beyond rational criticism) is because he EVOLVED. People harp on the fact that he fiddled with hip hop and rap because to younger generations those forms define mainstream today. They were new musical forms at some point in the 80's and 90's and of course Prince was going to want to play with the new toys. Is the only way to remain experimental to confine himself to rock and funk sounds? As if rock and funk were not musical forms that he picked up from the people who came before him?

He's evolved in every sense of the word. The man has been married and divorced twice, he's lost a child. And people neglect to connect that kind of pain to his religious explorations. What do you think happens to a human being when they lose a child? Do you not look inward? If some people believe that his religious zest was overdone, it's not their right to have a say into what helped this man survive such a tragedy.

I've never looked to agree with everything he has written. Whether it was misogynistic sounding or proselytizing, or just plain odd. What attracts me to his lyrics is his poetic sense, the way he articulates thoughts, and his sense of humor, all qualities that remain to this day. And as an exercise, setting boundaries does force you to be creative in new ways. The man still writes as much about sex as he ever has, it's just concealed in new ways. An artist is relevant only when his music resonates with truth. His truth today is not the same as when he was 25 years old. As much as some accuse him of doing a by-the-numbers type of show, I see the exact opposite. He's expressing himself as he is today, not reprising the performer he was 30 years ago.

Obviously, I couldn't speak for everyone, but I know a lot of his fans love the fact that his sound has grown over the years. His talents cannot be constrained to narrow parameters. His musical vocabulary is rich and vast, and grows more sophisticated in time. I feel fortunate to get to hear his music, particularly his best output. A career is not built on failures, but failure is indispensable to success. So what if there are tunes on each release that I occasionally skip? I've always done that. 1999 is probably my favorite record ever, but I'm gonna skip through "Free" every time. For people to define the quality of an album by pointing to the weakest songs is crazy.

So yeah, a lot of critics don't have the above thoughts in mind when they "review" his newer material. For my money, smart criticism has to acknowledge context, it's all I'm saying.

Well said.

tomato said:

He just did not evolve. Talent and responsibilty are related.

I have to comment on this. Quite the contrary to this statement, I believe the main reason he gets dogged (because it goes beyond rational criticism) is because he EVOLVED. People harp on the fact that he fiddled with hip hop and rap because to younger generations those forms define mainstream today. They were new musical forms at some point in the 80's and 90's and of course Prince was going to want to play with the new toys. Is the only way to remain experimental to confine himself to rock and funk sounds? As if rock and funk were not musical forms that he picked up from the people who came before him?

He's evolved in every sense of the word. The man has been married and divorced twice, he's lost a child. And people neglect to connect that kind of pain to his religious explorations. What do you think happens to a human being when they lose a child? Do you not look inward? If some people believe that his religious zest was overdone, it's not their right to have a say into what helped this man survive such a tragedy.

Co-Sign tomato ...

[Edited 4/18/11 9:36am]

Illuminations said:

NouveauDance said:

Even bigger load of shit.

OMG... someone other than you has an opinion... watch out Org... this idiot is pissed at my "opinion"... LOL

That wasn't an opinion, you were suggesting you knew what other people were thinking about 20Ten - I said bullshit, you don't know what other people are thinking.

Secondly, the idea that only those who create music are in a position to critique it is as laughable as it is pathetic - so I think my reply was justified. This is something you read on here so often, I think it spread like a virus, it's more a mantra at this point than a valid opinion. Would you say the same thing about books, paintings, movies, etc?

minneapolisFunq said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

get ready to dance, it kills all of Minneapolis sound lol

http://www.youtube.com/wa...KmHGPs6-dQ

She didn't even program that drum pattern/

It's a stock loop.

who cares, it's still funkier than the Minneapolis Sound sound

NouveauDance said:

Illuminations said:

OMG... someone other than you has an opinion... watch out Org... this idiot is pissed at my "opinion"... LOL

That wasn't an opinion, you were suggesting you knew what other people were thinking about 20Ten - I said bullshit, you don't know what other people are thinking.

Secondly, the idea that only those who create music are in a position to critique it is as laughable as it is pathetic - so I think my reply was justified. This is something you read on here so often, I think it spread like a virus, it's more a mantra at this point than a valid opinion. Would you say the same thing about books, paintings, movies, etc?

I'm sorry you don't understand what opinions are. So you have your ideas and bullshit comments and leave me to mine, lol.. have a nice life.