gunner82 said:

But how many artists new stuff [after 30 years+ of making music & releasing albums consistantly] is better than their old stuff? We all met our apex then slowly start to diminish

over time....

I don't agree with this.

"Year Zero" is probably my second favorite Nine Inch Nails album and that came out in 2007....that's 18 years after the debut album "Pretty Hate Machine".

I think "HIStory" is one of MJ's best albums, and that came out in 1995 - 16 years after "Off The Wall" and 26 years after "I Want You Back".

"The Gold Experience" is phenomenal and that came out 17 years after "For You" and well after what most people have said was Prince's "apex". I don't personally like "The Rainbow Children" but there's a significant amount of people that absolutely love it.

Also, "Lotusflow3r" got great reviews and deserves it, because it was awesome.

802 said:

NouveauDance said:

1) Half the songs are genre-chasing shit.

2) Even if they were all decent, that's only half a dozen tracks, a friggin' EPs worth squeezed from a whole decade of yearly albums - that's sorry.

3) You missed off Everlasting Now, $, Sticky Like Glue and Everybody Loves Me.*

j/k about that last one

It was just a quick list of songs from the top of my head. I never said they were his best funk songs of the past 15 years

Musicology and Black Sweat are some of his funkiest songs period. They out funky alot of his earlier stuff that wasn't that funky anyways. I'd say he's more funky now in the true sense than he ever was.

Because there is too much of it.

If he took a break from releasing new material for 2-5 years, when he did come back with a new album it may be appreciated more.

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

802 said:

It was just a quick list of songs from the top of my head. I never said they were his best funk songs of the past 15 years

Musicology and Black Sweat are some of his funkiest songs period. They out funky alot of his earlier stuff that wasn't that funky anyways. I'd say he's more funky now in the true sense than he ever was.

Yes that's true

it's simple, his music is produced in too high a volume and the quality control has long slipped. Don't get me wrong, in the contect of a lot of chart stuff we hear on the radio his output generally is no worse BUT compared to the insanely high standards he has set himself he is well below par. Several of his recent albums [IMHO] have tarx that are keepers w/a lot of filler - although i still think that LF [the single disc album was a big return to form]

802 said:

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

Musicology and Black Sweat are some of his funkiest songs period. They out funky alot of his earlier stuff that wasn't that funky anyways. I'd say he's more funky now in the true sense than he ever was.

Yes that's true

what examples of songs weren't that funky anyway.

Because Prince was never a stright on Funk artist, never.

Black Sweat and Sticky Like Glue are very funky.

V10LETBLUES said:

If Bruce Springsteen, Paul Simon and U2 Followed The Joshua Tree and their other seminal works by having their follow-up ape NKOTB, Boys 2 Men and Nu-Shooz, they would be in the same boat Prince is in, believe me.

Prince dumbed down his music and became a follower of trends instead of creating them. Music critics and fans once fawned over his music because kept moving forward, creating fantastic music regardless of trends. In the 90's we rolled our eyes and couldn't believe how far the greatest artist of our time had fallen.

The artists above that you mentioned, kept their artistic integrity and dignity. They never tried to be the next MJ, Madonna or Britney Spears. Prince seemed to be so insecure that he did not realize how far above the crowd his art was. And seeing him pander looked pathetic and beneath someone of his greatness.

THAT is why critics and fans look down on his newer music.

And for the record, some "critics" Edna Gunderson and other low fruit have given Prince good reviews in exchange for exclusive face time. And let's not forget that screwball reviewer that recently said that 20ten was on par with SOTT.

[Edited 4/13/11 6:38am]

I see where you are going with the NKOTB & Boys 2 Men comments...but they really hold no water for a few reasons:

A. Prince was always much more of a pop artist than U2, Paul Simon, or Bruce. So it is a flawed argument that you present. U2 did chase trends with their album Pop and, although it was their worse received album ever, it still garnered mostly decent reviews.

B. If you truly believe that Prince put out albums comparable to NKOTB and Boys 2 Men then I would wonder if you actually ever listened to any of these artists/groups.

C. Prince has always incorporated new trends and what is "current" into his sound. You think he just manifested 80's new wave/punk into his mix out of thin air? Nope, he hopped on a trend and made it his own.

skywalker said:

V10LETBLUES said:

If Bruce Springsteen, Paul Simon and U2 Followed The Joshua Tree and their other seminal works by having their follow-up ape NKOTB, Boys 2 Men and Nu-Shooz, they would be in the same boat Prince is in, believe me.

Prince dumbed down his music and became a follower of trends instead of creating them. Music critics and fans once fawned over his music because kept moving forward, creating fantastic music regardless of trends. In the 90's we rolled our eyes and couldn't believe how far the greatest artist of our time had fallen.

The artists above that you mentioned, kept their artistic integrity and dignity. They never tried to be the next MJ, Madonna or Britney Spears. Prince seemed to be so insecure that he did not realize how far above the crowd his art was. And seeing him pander looked pathetic and beneath someone of his greatness.

THAT is why critics and fans look down on his newer music.

And for the record, some "critics" Edna Gunderson and other low fruit have given Prince good reviews in exchange for exclusive face time. And let's not forget that screwball reviewer that recently said that 20ten was on par with SOTT.

[Edited 4/13/11 6:38am]

I see where you are going with the NKOTB & Boys 2 Men comments...but they really hold no water for a few reasons:

A. Prince was always much more of a pop artist than U2, Paul Simon, or Bruce. So it is a flawed argument that you present. U2 did chase trends with their album Pop and, although it was their worse received album ever, it still garnered mostly decent reviews.

B. If you truly believe that Prince put out albums comparable to NKOTB and Boys 2 Men then I would wonder if you actually ever listened to any of these artists/groups.

C. Prince has always incorporated new trends and what is "current" into his sound. You think he just manifested 80's new wave/punk into his mix out of thin air? Nope, he hopped on a trend and made it his own.

Key words in bold.

Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999, Purple Rain, Around The World, Parade, SOTT never sounded like anything on the radio or anytwhere else. They were a breath of fresh air.

Everything after 1990 sounded like stale cheap immitaions of every trend out there. Sure his sound always took elements of music history, but he made it his own.

V10LETBLUES said:

skywalker said:

V10LETBLUES said:

I see where you are going with the NKOTB & Boys 2 Men comments...but they really hold no water for a few reasons:

A. Prince was always much more of a pop artist than U2, Paul Simon, or Bruce. So it is a flawed argument that you present. U2 did chase trends with their album Pop and, although it was their worse received album ever, it still garnered mostly decent reviews.

B. If you truly believe that Prince put out albums comparable to NKOTB and Boys 2 Men then I would wonder if you actually ever listened to any of these artists/groups.

C. Prince has always incorporated new trends and what is "current" into his sound. You think he just manifested 80's new wave/punk into his mix out of thin air? Nope, he hopped on a trend and made it his own.

Key words in bold.

Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999, Purple Rain, Around The World, Parade, SOTT never sounded like anything on the radio or anytwhere else. They were a breath of fresh air.

Everything after 1990 sounded like stale cheap immitaions of every trend out there. Sure his sound always took elements of music history, but he made it his own.

True, and even when Prince did mess with rap he did make it his own during songs like Girls & Boys It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night Love or Money Alphabet St. Positivity

It was still seriously Prince music if fit into his world

the 1990's attempts at rap was not cutting edge, his sound changed on too much music to fit what was already a popular sound. I listened to Race from the Come album and the beat was just so generically similar to a lot of RnB sounds of the 1990's

cuz basically his music sux today

Spinlight said:

cuz basically his music sux today

There are more outlets for criticism.

We can voice our opinions like never before!

Damn, everybody made good points! Even though none of us really thinks any of his new stuff holds weight like his classics, I'm still happy to get new Prince music [virtually] every year. And I think we hope for a new Prince album that can stand up to his 80's albums. I know [personally] I miss the aggressive/catchy Prince. It was never about the rauchy lyrics & antics imo. If you take the lyrics from TRC & add music similar to "Dirty Mind" or "1999", would it matter?

NouveauDance said:

gunner82 said:

But how many artists new stuff [after 30 years+ of making music & releasing albums consistantly] is better than their old stuff? We all met our apex then slowly start to diminish
over time....

That's no excuse to give up on them IMO.

I wouldn't ever give up on hearing some new Prince music! He & MJ are my favorite two artist. But it seems that with age, everybody eventually is a shell of their former self. Prince has the freedom now that he fought for in the 90's, but there is FAR more complaining from us fans of his music now than anything he did in the 80's.

OldFriends4Sale said:

When Minneapolis SOund was released I was so looking 4 THAT sound ... seriously disappointed

Same year(?) Sheila E. put up a mock clip imitation of Prince seriously rocking the Linn drumkit

I kept playing that over n over just for the simple rawness of that sound

And then said why didn't Prince hook that album up like Sheila did that clip.

Little stuff like this is why he can be highly criticized

Is there a link for that vid? I'd LOVE to see that!!

Graycap23 said:

Maybe if Prince took off the handcuffs (JW based self censorship) his music would begin 2 breathe again

That's a pretty good point. But I don't believe the Prince was a JW when he dropped "Emancipation" & that album was just okay....

NO.STAL.GIA

1. The internet made everyone a critic . The negativity started after the name change. Many here now praise the Gold Experence CD but 14 years ago it was heavily criticized. Why ? That's when mass internet usage began.

2. No real label contract. The labels own the critics .It's damn near like a new form of payola. The routine is the same for all new releases. Make a token apperance on a talk show, hit BET/MTV/VH-1 with a new video, make the cover of a music paper. Has it changed in 16 years ? Nope.

Every Prince release that has a label backing him will get a good review. The ones that he did independently the reviews were panned.

Good idea for everyone is to kill all music sites until 3 months after the release of a new Prince album. If for nothing else to enjoy the album for yourself and not engage in groupthink.

muleFunk said:

1. The internet made everyone a critic . The negativity started after the name change. Many here now praise the Gold Experence CD but 14 years ago it was heavily criticized. Why ? That's when mass internet usage began.

2. No real label contract. The labels own the critics .It's damn near like a new form of payola. The routine is the same for all new releases. Make a token apperance on a talk show, hit BET/MTV/VH-1 with a new video, make the cover of a music paper. Has it changed in 16 years ? Nope.

Really? All the fans I knew back then LOVED TGE. Everyone was so hyper for that album, by the time it came out it's day had passed and Prince wasn't into promoting it, so it floated away - basically the same business model he's used ever since.

Every music fan is already a critic, the internet just gave people access to a wider range of other people's opinions and some people are shocked when they see such a selection of views (that is, they start worrying if their opinion is right or wrong).

I agree completely with point 2, it's so much about the business and if they're not earning from it, why would they bother promoting your record for you? Promotion costs money.

muleFunk said:

1. The internet made everyone a critic . The negativity started after the name change. Many here now praise the Gold Experence CD but 14 years ago it was heavily criticized. Why ? That's when mass internet usage began.

2. No real label contract. The labels own the critics .It's damn near like a new form of payola. The routine is the same for all new releases. Make a token apperance on a talk show, hit BET/MTV/VH-1 with a new video, make the cover of a music paper. Has it changed in 16 years ? Nope.

Every Prince release that has a label backing him will get a good review. The ones that he did independently the reviews were panned.

Good idea for everyone is to kill all music sites until 3 months after the release of a new Prince album. If for nothing else to enjoy the album for yourself and not engage in groupthink.

What? TGE was huge on AMP.

Go back and check out opinions of TGE from the early ORG if you can. People dogged that album out. I thought then and now that it is a masterpiece.

After the AMP invasion,the Crystal Ball debacle,and the jumping off the WB ship that's when the shit hit the fan. IMHO I think that this trend continued up until the release of Musicology in 2004.

muleFunk said:

1. The internet made everyone a critic . The negativity started after the name change. Many here now praise the Gold Experence CD but 14 years ago it was heavily criticized. Why ? That's when mass internet usage began.

2. No real label contract. The labels own the critics .It's damn near like a new form of payola. The routine is the same for all new releases. Make a token apperance on a talk show, hit BET/MTV/VH-1 with a new video, make the cover of a music paper. Has it changed in 16 years ? Nope.

Every Prince release that has a label backing him will get a good review. The ones that he did independently the reviews were panned.

Good idea for everyone is to kill all music sites until 3 months after the release of a new Prince album. If for nothing else to enjoy the album for yourself and not engage in groupthink.

No no no. The problem is the same people keep propping their opinions more maniacally than others, over and over in the belief that if something is said enough times people will start to believe it is true.

If you look at the current TRC thread it is based on the same 4 folks regurgitating and speaking to themselves propping it up time and again, same with The Gold Messperiance.

Time has not made those albums any better, it's just that the same 4 or 5 people are more intrepid in their ribald opinions on them. I like to toss cold water on them just to wake them up and make the courteous equally needed counter point.

The internet makes everyone's opinion as equal as anybody Else's. Some people do not like that.

But that is what I love about the net most.

muleFunk said:

Go back and check out opinions of TGE from the early ORG if you can. People dogged that album out. I thought then and now that it is a masterpiece.

After the AMP invasion,the Crystal Ball debacle,and the jumping off the WB ship that's when the shit hit the fan. IMHO I think that this trend continued up until the release of Musicology in 2004.

Prince.org didn't even exist back then, man.

muleFunk said:

Dude I know that. However check out the earliest threads about TGE and most panned the album. The Org showed up in what 97/98?

much like Crystal Ball did. i put it down to the ever expanding transparent channeling we come to know as Web 2.0

also, he hasn't wrecked the bass since 1993 and he also did not wreck the bass in 1987 and he also is not wrecking the bass now.

drowned out by hoodies it seems. taste is a drop in the cloud.

Because Prince has some of the most sophisticated and rabid music fans ever. I admit I'm one of them. I get pumped up for new material and when it hits I'm like "yeah it's ok, but he could have or should have done this or that" etc etc.

But when you really break it down and ask yourself what if Around the World in a Day, Lovesexy, or hell even Purple Rain were released today? How would we percieve them now as new material? It's hard to imagine but I really don't think we would hold those recordings in the same regards as we do now? Would you say those are "funky" albums if released for the 1st time today? It's really something to think about.

As much as I agree with some that his stuff in the last 10 years has been flat. Musically it's much tighter and his guitar playing is at it's best. Yet it does not carry that same feel or excitement as the old stuff????

Another thing some have touched on is the technology. Back in the early to mid 80's Prince's sound was based soley on the tech being used. Nothing sounded like it nor does it to this day. It all started creeping away by the time Lovesexy hit and was evolving into the next wave of tech he was using. Just go back and listen how certain periods had the same feel and sound. His songwriting was no different but the sound was. Now he's more into the straight up generic sound without all the analog synth sounding instruments. I think he used to go out of his way to manipulate the tech and come up with a crazy rimshot sound or some funky keyboard effect. Now we get a little of that here and there but it's usually just a recreated or sampled sound from the past. He's just into the straight up instruments and more of a generic sound as I said before.

I'm to the point where I just accept and respect what he's doing musically anymore. Sure every new release I still will have that "this is gonna be the one" mentality but ultimately that's just a setup for another letdown. As I'm typing this I keep asking myself what do I want out of new Prince material? Honestly I can't even answer that? Can you? The old stuff is special not only because of the music but it also came at a different time in my life. That cannot and will not ever be reproduced. I've accepted that.

I think I'm more critcal about the "would be" stuff we hear about that never sees the light of day or the way he changes his mind and drops the ball on so many projects and leaves the fans pissing in the wind.

[Edited 4/13/11 19:23pm]

gunner82 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

When Minneapolis SOund was released I was so looking 4 THAT sound ... seriously disappointed

Same year(?) Sheila E. put up a mock clip imitation of Prince seriously rocking the Linn drumkit

I kept playing that over n over just for the simple rawness of that sound

And then said why didn't Prince hook that album up like Sheila did that clip.

Little stuff like this is why he can be highly criticized

Is there a link for that vid? I'd LOVE to see that!!

get ready to dance, it kills all of Minneapolis sound lol

http://www.youtube.com/wa...KmHGPs6-dQ

SmiggyG said:

Because Prince has some of the most sophisticated and rabid music fans ever. I admit I'm one of them. I get pumped up for new material and when it hits I'm like "yeah it's ok, but he could have or should have done this or that" etc etc.

But when you really break it down and ask yourself what if Around the World in a Day, Lovesexy, or hell even Purple Rain were released today? How would we percieve them now as new material? It's hard to imagine but I really don't think we would hold those recordings in the same regards as we do now? Would you say those are "funky" albums if released for the 1st time today? It's really something to think about.

As much as I agree with some that his stuff in the last 10 years has been flat. Musically it's much tighter and his guitar playing is at it's best. Yet it does not carry that same feel or excitement as the old stuff????

Another thing some have touched on is the technology. Back in the early to mid 80's Prince's sound was based soley on the tech being used. Nothing sounded like it nor does it to this day. It all started creeping away by the time Lovesexy hit and was evolving into the next wave of tech he was using. Just go back and listen how certain periods had the same feel and sound. His songwriting was no different but the sound was. Now he's more into the straight up generic sound without all the analog synth sounding instruments. I think he used to go out of his way to manipulate the tech and come up with a crazy rimshot sound or some funky keyboard effect. Now we get a little of that here and there but it's usually just a recreated or sampled sound from the past. He's just into the straight up instruments and more of a generic sound as I said before.

I'm to the point where I just accept and respect what he's doing musically anymore. Sure every new release I still will have that "this is gonna be the one" mentality but ultimately that's just a setup for another letdown. As I'm typing this I keep asking myself what do I want out of new Prince material? Honestly I can't even answer that? Can you? The old stuff is special not only because of the music but it also came at a different time in my life. That cannot and will not ever be reproduced. I've accepted that.

I think I'm more critcal about the "would be" stuff we hear about that never sees the light of day or the way he changes his mind and drops the ball on so many projects and leaves the fans pissing in the wind.

I think those albums would hit big, but it could only be released with the same passion. If that passion isn't there, the album would not. Everything and everyone at that time were in place for those albums to be.

It's like when I listen to certain 1999 show.. the crazy wildness and just out there Prince and band + the Time & Vanity with some of his best shows now, I still don't get that 1999 wildness(nothing to do with age)

listening to the Benefit concert @ 1st Avenue 1983 and the Birthday show 6.7.1984 the magic and passion and cockiness it was crazy. That made those times/albums.

datdude said:

NO.STAL.GIA

That's almost like saying Prince was never really that good to begin with.