SagsWay2low said:

We're not hear to discuss whether he hates the jews or not at this point, but how much he hates them, and whether smooth jazz should ever be allowed to be narrated by darth vador. Please keep up.

Speak for youtself - I'm here to claim that Prince doesn't hate Jews and that the anti-semitism argument regarding TRC is an urban legend that is kept alive on this website.

Btw, if you decide to come up with the Darth Vader joke for the 1,000,000th time, it could be an achievement to at least spell the name correctly.

O.k., so let's irritate ourselves with facts for a second by looking at the actual song lyrics (without the intro):

Mirror, mirror what u see?Have I still got those dark clouds over me?
Or am I really feeling what I feel?The last days of the Devil's Deal
Mirror, what u see?

Devil, devil what u know?/U been here since 1914, but now u got 2 go
U been hidin' behind corporate eyes
U wanna war, but u can't fight/Devil, u got 2 go

U might say, "what u mad about?"/But u still got ur Family Name
Pleased 2 meet u, Mr. Rosenbloom/I'll b John Blackwell just the same
What's ur Family Name?

Teacher, teacher what u say?/Did we really come over in a boat?
Did it really go down that way?/Or did I arrive b4 and ruin Thanksgiving Day?
Teacher, what u say?

Preacher, preacher is it true?/That Jesus wants me 2 give my money 2 the likes of u?
Ride around in ur Lexus Coupe/Drive us 2 the cleaners in a pinstripe suit
Preacher, that ain't truth!

U might say, "what u mad about?/But u still got ur Family Name
Pleased 2 meet u, Mr. Pearlman/U can call me Clay. can I play?

People, people what's ur name?/Maybe we should start all over
Let everybody get in the game/Put up a one-gloved fist
Make a sound, Violet Brown

U might say "what u mad about?"/But u still got ur Family name
Pleased 2 meet u Mr. Goldstruck.

We found this tape in the Akashic records. This is Thomas Jefferson:

"My fellow Americans, if there is a just God, we're gonna pay 4 this!"

"Black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics will
b able 2 join hands in the words of the old Negro spiritual:
"free at last, free at last, thank God almighty we are free at last!"

(irony mode on) The last section is indeed something a hardcore anti-semite would quote in a song to make it anti-semitic! Brilliant! (irony mode off)

So let's look at the chorus, i.e. the lyric section in question, again:

U might say, "what u mad about?"/But u still got ur Family Name
Pleased 2 meet u, Mr. Rosenbloom/I'll b John Blackwell just the same
What's ur Family Name?

Who is addressed in the first line? Obviously we as listeners, who (in the large majority) probably still have their original family names. Then Prince talks to another (virtual) person called Mr. Rosenbloom, who is probably Jewish. He is pleased to meet him and introduces himself as "John Blackwell" to say that with this name, he's "just the same" as Mr. Rosenbloom - both got their names stolen at some point in history, the Jews and the Afro-Americans have parallels in their respective history. Then he turns to us again asking "What's ur Family Name?" just as in "And what was your name again?". It does not make any sense that he's addressing Mr. Rosenbloom again, because he knows that he's called "Mr. Rosenbloom" already and that this is person is "just the same" as himself (name-wise).

In summary: you guys claim that Prince is the first anti-semite in the history of mankind who expresses his anti-semitism by seeing the parallel situation of his own ethnic minority (African-American) to the discrimination of Jewish people and finally quotes a speech asking for Jews and Gentiles to be able to join their hands. How does that make any sense?

EmancipationLover said:

SagsWay2low said:

We're not hear to discuss whether he hates the jews or not at this point, but how much he hates them, and whether smooth jazz should ever be allowed to be narrated by darth vador. Please keep up.

Speak for youtself - I'm here to claim that Prince doesn't hate Jews and that the anti-semitism argument regarding TRC is an urban legend that is kept alive on this website.

Btw, if you decide to come up with the Darth Vader joke for the 1,000,000th time, it could be an achievement to at least spell the name correctly.

urban legend

hilarious.

Genesia said:

rialb said:

Are you familiar with what adults sound like in Peanuts cartoons? (wahn wahn wahn wah) Well, that's how I hear the lyrics on this album. Maybe they are anti-semetic, I don't know because it sounds like gibberish to me.

Here ya go...

[img:$uid]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_TrUMxhjHGoc/TDdc6WbiU7I/AAAAAAAAF0I/joJsqcH8auY/s1600/qtip.jpg[/img:$uid]

Well, I just tried that and it did not work. Any other helpful tips?

SagsWay2low said:

EmancipationLover said:

Speak for youtself - I'm here to claim that Prince doesn't hate Jews and that the anti-semitism argument regarding TRC is an urban legend that is kept alive on this website.

Btw, if you decide to come up with the Darth Vader joke for the 1,000,000th time, it could be an achievement to at least spell the name correctly.

urban legend

hilarious.

The complexity of this answer fits perfectly into the overall picture.

EmancipationLover said:

SagsWay2low said:

urban legend

hilarious.

The complexity of this answer fits perfectly into the overall picture.

You're trying to get the last word, aren't you?

It's anti-semetic.

Spinlight said:

robertgeorgeakabob said:

who made u the authority? ain't only prince who believes "ain't no room to disagree"!!!!

Oh? Grats to you for believing in a theocratic order. I laugh at people like you because your delusion is so strong.

But regardless of your own calamities, the lyric is questionable at best and it has nothing to do with vibrant imagery. You and Prince don't "get" something everyone else doesn't so stop insinuating it.

now where do i say i BELIEVE in a theocratic order?? i'm an atheist you tool, i was explaining the theocratic order that prince and jw's believe in. what are my calamities? you're self-righteous and arrogant, and i'm not insinuating it!

SagsWay2low said:

EmancipationLover said:

The complexity of this answer fits perfectly into the overall picture.

You're trying to get the last word, aren't you?

It's anti-semetic.

Actually, I'm not interested in getting the last word at all.

I have posted a pretty detailed interpretation of the lyrics in question to prove that they are not anti-semitic. Of course, I could be wrong with my analysis. I'm not a native speaker of English, which might add to potential misunderstandings. So consequently, I can't do anything about it if someone posts a detailed analysis proving my interpretation to be nonsense. However, where - WHERE? - is this post?

You say the song is anti-semitic. O.k. You are the one who accuses someone, so I think it would only be fair if you proved your point. Please go ahead, I'm looking forward to your detailed interpretation of "Family Name" proving that it contains anti-semitic stuff. And please, also give me an explanation why an anti-semitic song ends with the quote

Black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics will
b able 2 join hands in the words of the old Negro spiritual:
"free at last, free at last, thank God almighty we are free at last!

As I'm absolutely sure that you are sincere and don't throw around the accusation of anti-semitism for your own personal entertainment, I'm confident that we can read your thoughts on the "Family Name" lyrics here in the near future. That's at least much better than your decision ex cathedra that this or that song is anti-semitic.

I have the urge to go off to the PC and re-edit the album with the narration taken off......

PurpleLove7 said:

EmancipationLover said:

I don't think he attempted to be ironic. I think he attempted to use an example (situation of black people being similar to the situation of Jewish people) that was not very well-chosen because he did not understand the sensitivity of the topic.

P writes a lot of his music just to see the response he gets from places like prince.org and what not. He knows EXACTLY what he's sayin' and doing ... LoL

Absolutely. That "most controversial album" sticker didn't end up on that album by accident, Prince set out to make it that way.

EmancipationLover said:

O.k., so let's irritate ourselves with facts for a second by looking at the actual song lyrics (without the intro):

Mirror, mirror what u see?Have I still got those dark clouds over me?
Or am I really feeling what I feel?The last days of the Devil's Deal
Mirror, what u see?

Devil, devil what u know?/U been here since 1914, but now u got 2 go
U been hidin' behind corporate eyes
U wanna war, but u can't fight/Devil, u got 2 go

U might say, "what u mad about?"/But u still got ur Family Name
Pleased 2 meet u, Mr. Rosenbloom/I'll b John Blackwell just the same
What's ur Family Name?

Teacher, teacher what u say?/Did we really come over in a boat?
Did it really go down that way?/Or did I arrive b4 and ruin Thanksgiving Day?
Teacher, what u say?

Preacher, preacher is it true?/That Jesus wants me 2 give my money 2 the likes of u?
Ride around in ur Lexus Coupe/Drive us 2 the cleaners in a pinstripe suit
Preacher, that ain't truth!

U might say, "what u mad about?/But u still got ur Family Name
Pleased 2 meet u, Mr. Pearlman/U can call me Clay. can I play?

People, people what's ur name?/Maybe we should start all over
Let everybody get in the game/Put up a one-gloved fist
Make a sound, Violet Brown

U might say "what u mad about?"/But u still got ur Family name
Pleased 2 meet u Mr. Goldstruck.

We found this tape in the Akashic records. This is Thomas Jefferson:

"My fellow Americans, if there is a just God, we're gonna pay 4 this!"

"Black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics will
b able 2 join hands in the words of the old Negro spiritual:
"free at last, free at last, thank God almighty we are free at last!"

(irony mode on) The last section is indeed something a hardcore anti-semite would quote in a song to make it anti-semitic! Brilliant! (irony mode off)

So let's look at the chorus, i.e. the lyric section in question, again:

U might say, "what u mad about?"/But u still got ur Family Name
Pleased 2 meet u, Mr. Rosenbloom/I'll b John Blackwell just the same
What's ur Family Name?

Who is addressed in the first line? Obviously we as listeners, who (in the large majority) probably still have their original family names. Then Prince talks to another (virtual) person called Mr. Rosenbloom, who is probably Jewish. He is pleased to meet him and introduces himself as "John Blackwell" to say that with this name, he's "just the same" as Mr. Rosenbloom - both got their names stolen at some point in history, the Jews and the Afro-Americans have parallels in their respective history. Then he turns to us again asking "What's ur Family Name?" just as in "And what was your name again?". It does not make any sense that he's addressing Mr. Rosenbloom again, because he knows that he's called "Mr. Rosenbloom" already and that this is person is "just the same" as himself (name-wise).

In summary: you guys claim that Prince is the first anti-semite in the history of mankind who expresses his anti-semitism by seeing the parallel situation of his own ethnic minority (African-American) to the discrimination of Jewish people and finally quotes a speech asking for Jews and Gentiles to be able to join their hands. How does that make any sense?

It doesn't make any sense.......but it's par 4 the course of nonsense seen around here.

TRC is my favorite Prince album, and i believe that if Prince is to be remembered by future generations, this is the album that will have a lot to do with that.

Pizza with anchovies is the only way to go! It makes it more delicious!

Carrot Top is the best comedian ever! E V E R !!

Nixon was one of the best US Presidents, second only to the patriot GW Bush!

And The Rainbow Children is the best Prince album ever! And I will keep saying this and repeating this over and over and over no matter what anybody says because it's true! It's true I tell you!

You cannot suppress the truth!

[Edited 4/19/11 7:21am]

m3taverse said:

TRC is my favorite Prince album, and i believe that if Prince is to be remembered by future generations, this is the album that will have a lot to do with that.

Is this a joke? He would be remembered for his Warner Bros era work.

EmancipationLover said:

SagsWay2low said:

You're trying to get the last word, aren't you?

It's anti-semetic.

Actually, I'm not interested in getting the last word at all.

I have posted a pretty detailed interpretation of the lyrics in question to prove that they are not anti-semitic. Of course, I could be wrong with my analysis. I'm not a native speaker of English, which might add to potential misunderstandings. So consequently, I can't do anything about it if someone posts a detailed analysis proving my interpretation to be nonsense. However, where - WHERE? - is this post?

You say the song is anti-semitic. O.k. You are the one who accuses someone, so I think it would only be fair if you proved your point. Please go ahead, I'm looking forward to your detailed interpretation of "Family Name" proving that it contains anti-semitic stuff. And please, also give me an explanation why an anti-semitic song ends with the quote

Black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics will
b able 2 join hands in the words of the old Negro spiritual:
"free at last, free at last, thank God almighty we are free at last!

As I'm absolutely sure that you are sincere and don't throw around the accusation of anti-semitism for your own personal entertainment, I'm confident that we can read your thoughts on the "Family Name" lyrics here in the near future. That's at least much better than your decision ex cathedra that this or that song is anti-semitic.

OMG, I'm not reading that.

:lastword:

802 said:

m3taverse said:

TRC is my favorite Prince album, and i believe that if Prince is to be remembered by future generations, this is the album that will have a lot to do with that.

Is this a joke? He would be remembered for his Warner Bros era work.

If his vaults aren't filled with even better, more remarkable work, true.

Whether the vaults posses great works or not, one thing will remain constant: TRC will be

a so-so album too long and too tedius and too desperate to make a splash to define Prince

in any way.

SagsWay2low said:

EmancipationLover said:

The complexity of this answer fits perfectly into the overall picture.

You're trying to get the last word, aren't you?

It's anti-semetic.

Umm ... Are you jewish ???

EmancipationLover said:

O.k., so let's irritate ourselves with facts for a second by looking at the actual song lyrics (without the intro):

Mirror, mirror what u see?Have I still got those dark clouds over me?
Or am I really feeling what I feel?The last days of the Devil's Deal
Mirror, what u see?

Devil, devil what u know?/U been here since 1914, but now u got 2 go
U been hidin' behind corporate eyes
U wanna war, but u can't fight/Devil, u got 2 go

U might say, "what u mad about?"/But u still got ur Family Name
Pleased 2 meet u, Mr. Rosenbloom/I'll b John Blackwell just the same
What's ur Family Name?

Teacher, teacher what u say?/Did we really come over in a boat?
Did it really go down that way?/Or did I arrive b4 and ruin Thanksgiving Day?
Teacher, what u say?

Preacher, preacher is it true?/That Jesus wants me 2 give my money 2 the likes of u?
Ride around in ur Lexus Coupe/Drive us 2 the cleaners in a pinstripe suit
Preacher, that ain't truth!

U might say, "what u mad about?/But u still got ur Family Name
Pleased 2 meet u, Mr. Pearlman/U can call me Clay. can I play?

People, people what's ur name?/Maybe we should start all over
Let everybody get in the game/Put up a one-gloved fist
Make a sound, Violet Brown

U might say "what u mad about?"/But u still got ur Family name
Pleased 2 meet u Mr. Goldstruck.

We found this tape in the Akashic records. This is Thomas Jefferson:

"My fellow Americans, if there is a just God, we're gonna pay 4 this!"

"Black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics will
b able 2 join hands in the words of the old Negro spiritual:
"free at last, free at last, thank God almighty we are free at last!"

(irony mode on) The last section is indeed something a hardcore anti-semite would quote in a song to make it anti-semitic! Brilliant! (irony mode off)

So let's look at the chorus, i.e. the lyric section in question, again:

U might say, "what u mad about?"/But u still got ur Family Name
Pleased 2 meet u, Mr. Rosenbloom/I'll b John Blackwell just the same
What's ur Family Name?

Who is addressed in the first line? Obviously we as listeners, who (in the large majority) probably still have their original family names. Then Prince talks to another (virtual) person called Mr. Rosenbloom, who is probably Jewish. He is pleased to meet him and introduces himself as "John Blackwell" to say that with this name, he's "just the same" as Mr. Rosenbloom - both got their names stolen at some point in history, the Jews and the Afro-Americans have parallels in their respective history. Then he turns to us again asking "What's ur Family Name?" just as in "And what was your name again?". It does not make any sense that he's addressing Mr. Rosenbloom again, because he knows that he's called "Mr. Rosenbloom" already and that this is person is "just the same" as himself (name-wise).

In summary: you guys claim that Prince is the first anti-semite in the history of mankind who expresses his anti-semitism by seeing the parallel situation of his own ethnic minority (African-American) to the discrimination of Jewish people and finally quotes a speech asking for Jews and Gentiles to be able to join their hands. How does that make any sense?

This is what I am looking for. Someone please take the ACTUAL lyrics and point out the anti-semitism. I don't hear/see it.

skywalker said:

EmancipationLover said:

O.k., so let's irritate ourselves with facts for a second by looking at the actual song lyrics (without the intro):

Mirror, mirror what u see?Have I still got those dark clouds over me?
Or am I really feeling what I feel?The last days of the Devil's Deal
Mirror, what u see?

Devil, devil what u know?/U been here since 1914, but now u got 2 go
U been hidin' behind corporate eyes
U wanna war, but u can't fight/Devil, u got 2 go

U might say, "what u mad about?"/But u still got ur Family Name
Pleased 2 meet u, Mr. Rosenbloom/I'll b John Blackwell just the same
What's ur Family Name?

Teacher, teacher what u say?/Did we really come over in a boat?
Did it really go down that way?/Or did I arrive b4 and ruin Thanksgiving Day?
Teacher, what u say?

Preacher, preacher is it true?/That Jesus wants me 2 give my money 2 the likes of u?
Ride around in ur Lexus Coupe/Drive us 2 the cleaners in a pinstripe suit
Preacher, that ain't truth!

U might say, "what u mad about?/But u still got ur Family Name
Pleased 2 meet u, Mr. Pearlman/U can call me Clay. can I play?

People, people what's ur name?/Maybe we should start all over
Let everybody get in the game/Put up a one-gloved fist
Make a sound, Violet Brown

U might say "what u mad about?"/But u still got ur Family name
Pleased 2 meet u Mr. Goldstruck.

We found this tape in the Akashic records. This is Thomas Jefferson:

"My fellow Americans, if there is a just God, we're gonna pay 4 this!"

"Black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics will
b able 2 join hands in the words of the old Negro spiritual:
"free at last, free at last, thank God almighty we are free at last!"

(irony mode on) The last section is indeed something a hardcore anti-semite would quote in a song to make it anti-semitic! Brilliant! (irony mode off)

So let's look at the chorus, i.e. the lyric section in question, again:

U might say, "what u mad about?"/But u still got ur Family Name
Pleased 2 meet u, Mr. Rosenbloom/I'll b John Blackwell just the same
What's ur Family Name?

Who is addressed in the first line? Obviously we as listeners, who (in the large majority) probably still have their original family names. Then Prince talks to another (virtual) person called Mr. Rosenbloom, who is probably Jewish. He is pleased to meet him and introduces himself as "John Blackwell" to say that with this name, he's "just the same" as Mr. Rosenbloom - both got their names stolen at some point in history, the Jews and the Afro-Americans have parallels in their respective history. Then he turns to us again asking "What's ur Family Name?" just as in "And what was your name again?". It does not make any sense that he's addressing Mr. Rosenbloom again, because he knows that he's called "Mr. Rosenbloom" already and that this is person is "just the same" as himself (name-wise).

In summary: you guys claim that Prince is the first anti-semite in the history of mankind who expresses his anti-semitism by seeing the parallel situation of his own ethnic minority (African-American) to the discrimination of Jewish people and finally quotes a speech asking for Jews and Gentiles to be able to join their hands. How does that make any sense?

This is what I am looking for. Someone please take the ACTUAL lyrics and point out the anti-semitism. I don't hear/see it.

I'm waiting as well.

m3taverse said:

TRC is my favorite Prince album, and i believe that if Prince is to be remembered by future generations, this is the album that will have a lot to do with that.

That seems extremely unlikely. The album is ten years old and it has already been forgotten by everyone but hardcore fans. I don't think it has broad appeal outside of us hardcore fans.

For people who think all he's doing is just some innocent comparing and contrasting, I'm curious: Why do you think he's doing that only with Jews (not in just one song, but in two on the album) and not with any other particular group?

Efan said:

For people who think all he's doing is just some innocent comparing and contrasting, I'm curious: Why do you think he's doing that only with Jews (not in just one song, but in two on the album) and not with any other particular group?

Wouldn't u have 2 ask Prince that?

Graycap23 said:

Efan said:

For people who think all he's doing is just some innocent comparing and contrasting, I'm curious: Why do you think he's doing that only with Jews (not in just one song, but in two on the album) and not with any other particular group?

Wouldn't u have 2 ask Prince that?

Why don't you? You have his number...right?

Genesia said:

Graycap23 said:

Wouldn't u have 2 ask Prince that?

Why don't you? You have his number...right?

Does Joe Mama have his number?

Efan said:

For people who think all he's doing is just some innocent comparing and contrasting, I'm curious: Why do you think he's doing that only with Jews (not in just one song, but in two on the album) and not with any other particular group?

Because, to the very best of my knowledge, there are only two minority groups who had their family names stolen at some stage: African-American and Jewish people. Who else should he come up with? Also, I don't see the contrasting. "Just the same" is not exactly a phrase to emphasize a contrast, is it? Furthermore, wasn't there the attempt of some African-American activists to sort of "join forces" with Jewish groups during the days of the civil rights movement (I'm just asking, the Americans on this board will know better)?

As for the second song with lyrics in question: I would like to ask to discuss that after we've gone through the case of "Family Name", because the whole context and meaning of the "Holocaust aside" phrase in "Muse" is completely different imo. It's not that I'm unwilling to discuss it, it's just that I don't see the benefit in adding a second topic while the first one is still completely unclear.

EmancipationLover said:

Efan said:

For people who think all he's doing is just some innocent comparing and contrasting, I'm curious: Why do you think he's doing that only with Jews (not in just one song, but in two on the album) and not with any other particular group?

Because, to the very best of my knowledge, there are only two minority groups who had their family names stolen at some stage: African-American and Jewish people. Who else should he come up with? Also, I don't see the contrasting. "Just the same" is not exactly a phrase to emphasize a contrast, is it? Furthermore, wasn't there the attempt of some African-American activists to sort of "join forces" with Jewish groups during the days of the civil rights movement (I'm just asking, the Americans on this board will know better)?

As for the second song with lyrics in question: I would like to ask to discuss that after we've gone through the case of "Family Name", because the whole context and meaning of the "Holocaust aside" phrase in "Muse" is completely different imo. It's not that I'm unwilling to discuss it, it's just that I don't see the benefit in adding a second topic while the first one is still completely unclear.

I still wonder if Prince was specifically using names that are typically Jewish because they are Jewish, or simply because of the etymology. Gold, Rose, Pearl, etc.

Prince has a career long history of word play and toying with sounds and vocab. Remember the 1994 VIBE interview: Nel-son "son of Nel" and all that?

Efan said:

For people who think all he's doing is just some innocent comparing and contrasting, I'm curious: Why do you think he's doing that only with Jews (not in just one song, but in two on the album) and not with any other particular group?

Eh...because there was a Jewish holocaust and a Black holocaust. The latter of which people prefer to forget.

EmancipationLover said:

Efan said:

For people who think all he's doing is just some innocent comparing and contrasting, I'm curious: Why do you think he's doing that only with Jews (not in just one song, but in two on the album) and not with any other particular group?

Because, to the very best of my knowledge, there are only two minority groups who had their family names stolen at some stage: African-American and Jewish people. Who else should he come up with? Also, I don't see the contrasting. "Just the same" is not exactly a phrase to emphasize a contrast, is it? Furthermore, wasn't there the attempt of some African-American activists to sort of "join forces" with Jewish groups during the days of the civil rights movement (I'm just asking, the Americans on this board will know better)?

As for the second song with lyrics in question: I would like to ask to discuss that after we've gone through the case of "Family Name", because the whole context and meaning of the "Holocaust aside" phrase in "Muse" is completely different imo. It's not that I'm unwilling to discuss it, it's just that I don't see the benefit in adding a second topic while the first one is still completely unclear.

Thanks for the response. I would argue two things, though. 1) I don't think he's saying that Jewish people had their names stolen in Family Name. Just the opposite is how I take it. And 2) I do think TRC has to be considered as a whole, not on a song-by-song basis. To me anyway, the album, both its good and bad parts, are a complete concept.

PurpleLove7 said:

SagsWay2low said:

You're trying to get the last word, aren't you?

It's anti-semetic.

Umm ... Are you jewish ???

fucking hell.

Do you want to check my penis?

Bohemian67 said:

Efan said:

For people who think all he's doing is just some innocent comparing and contrasting, I'm curious: Why do you think he's doing that only with Jews (not in just one song, but in two on the album) and not with any other particular group?

Eh...because there was a Jewish holocaust and a Black holocaust. The latter of which people prefer to forget.

There was a Native American holocaust, but that's not mentioned in TRC. My point is that by bringing up only one other comparison, you invite the question of WHY you only brought up that one comparison when there are many others you could also mention.