skywalker said:

Spinlight said:

Put "African American" in place of "Jews", put "Johnson", "Williams", and "Smith" in place of "Rosenbloom" and "Goldstruck" (not even a real name), etc.

It's all fun and games until you paint with such a wide brush you include every apple in the bunch because you are too lazy to single them out.

Are you intentionally being ironic/funny by using "African American" names that are some of the most classic examples of slave names?

No, I googled the most popular African American names. Was Prince being funny or ironic by using names like Rosenbloom and Goldstruck?

What a way to clear out the room: Mention Prince's bigotry and that Family Name stereotypes jews.

Spinlight said:

What a way to clear out the room: Mention Prince's bigotry and that Family Name stereotypes jews.

Well, if you want to know what I think about the lyrics...I don't know what to think about the lyrics. Honestly, I never heard anything overtly anti-semetic but the "story" also makes no sense to me. Generally I don't like the album but when there's a song I do like I just nod my head to the music and ignore the lyrics.

rialb said:

Spinlight said:

What a way to clear out the room: Mention Prince's bigotry and that Family Name stereotypes jews.

Well, if you want to know what I think about the lyrics...I don't know what to think about the lyrics. Honestly, I never heard anything overtly anti-semetic but the "story" also makes no sense to me. Generally I don't like the album but when there's a song I do like I just nod my head to the music and ignore the lyrics.

I do too, typically, but this became a discussion about " racism" again and people don't like to admit Prince is on record saying some really nasty stuff.

[Edited 4/15/11 15:53pm]

Spinlight said:

skywalker said:

Are you intentionally being ironic/funny by using "African American" names that are some of the most classic examples of slave names?

No, I googled the most popular African American names. Was Prince being funny or ironic by using names like Rosenbloom and Goldstruck?

Maybe I am just dense. Is Prince singling out names that are typically Jewish, or is he simply choosing names that are have symbolic wealth/beauty in them?

Pearl-man

Rose-in-bloom

Gold-struck (some one mentioned isn't even a real name).

cborgman said:

Efan said:

Musically, it's amazing.

Lyrically, it's frustrating. On the one hand, it's one of his most (if not THE most) thought-out and inspired albums in a lyrical sense. He was definitely saying something, rather than writing throwaway songs. There's nothing throwaway on there...even "Wedding Feast," which I think adds a perfect whimsy to the otherwise serious album. On the other hand, of course, the lyrics are incredibly dreadful and disappointing in several places. It made me sad when I first heard it to think that an artist I liked so much had fallen into such a backward way of thinking about so many, many things.

But again, musically, it's amazing.

totally agree

thirdsies

i think at times the key to enjoying prince music thoroughly is not to have the lyrics handy until you've already fallen for the music.

skywalker said:

Spinlight said:

No, I googled the most popular African American names. Was Prince being funny or ironic by using names like Rosenbloom and Goldstruck?

Maybe I am just dense. Is Prince singling out names that are typically Jewish, or is he simply choosing names that are have symbolic wealth/beauty in them?

Pearl-man

Rose-in-bloom

Gold-struck (some one mentioned isn't even a real name).

Yes, those are Jewish names. And yes, Goldstruck is, ostensibly, meant to be any of the Gold- names that occur in Jewish heritage. This is backed up by his holocaust comment.

Spinlight said:

skywalker said:

Maybe I am just dense. Is Prince singling out names that are typically Jewish, or is he simply choosing names that are have symbolic wealth/beauty in them?

Pearl-man

Rose-in-bloom

Gold-struck (some one mentioned isn't even a real name).

Yes, those are Jewish names. And yes, Goldstruck is, ostensibly, meant to be any of the Gold- names that occur in Jewish heritage. This is backed up by his holocaust comment.

It blows my mind how people can't see the anti-semitic tone of this album.

It's not exactly pro-women either.

Prince deliberately promotes this provocative attack by placing a sticker on it saying "The controversial new album by...."....He was looking to get a reaction.

SagsWay2low said:

Spinlight said:

Yes, those are Jewish names. And yes, Goldstruck is, ostensibly, meant to be any of the Gold- names that occur in Jewish heritage. This is backed up by his holocaust comment.

It blows my mind how people can't see the anti-semitic tone of this album.

It's not exactly pro-women either.

Prince deliberately promotes this provocative attack by placing a sticker on it saying "The controversial new album by...."....He was looking to get a reaction.

Who watches the Watchmen?

XxAxX said:

cborgman said:

totally agree

thirdsies

Oh, you guys.

Spinlight said:

Who watches the Watchmen?

You should read this article written by Rabbi Marc Lee Raphael, a Professor and top historian on Jewish history. http://www.blacksandjews....phael.html It quotes from his book Jews and Judaism in the United States a Documentary History (New York: Behrman House, Inc., Pub, 1983).

Do you think the Rabbi being anti-Semitic? Or is it that we must ignore history because we don’t like the lessons it teaches?

Family name doesn’t single out or stereotype the Jewish, it addresses a group of people involved in an act. It uses Jewish family names to emphasise how important a name is. It’s funny how you see “using a name” as more derogatory than “losing a name.”

As to your comment, quote: “What a way to clear out the room: Mention Prince's bigotry and that Family Name stereotypes jews.” You give yourself far too much credit. I watched a good movie.

[Edited 4/16/11 5:20am]

SagsWay2low said:

Prince deliberately promotes this provocative attack by placing a sticker on it saying "The controversial new album by...."....He was looking to get a reaction.

From the under informed..............it appears that he has.

Bohemian67 said:

Spinlight said:

Who watches the Watchmen?

You should read this article written by Rabbi Marc Lee Raphael, a Professor and top historian on Jewish history. http://www.blacksandjews....phael.html It quotes from his book Jews and Judaism in the United States a Documentary History (New York: Behrman House, Inc., Pub, 1983).

Do you think the Rabbi being anti-Semitic? Or is it that we must ignore history because we don’t like the lessons it teaches?

Family name doesn’t single out or stereotype the Jewish, it addresses a group of people involved in an act. It uses Jewish family names to emphasise how important a name is. It’s funny how you see “using a name” as more derogatory than “losing a name.”

As to your comment, quote: “What a way to clear out the room: Mention Prince's bigotry and that Family Name stereotypes jews.” You give yourself far too much credit. I watched a good movie.

[Edited 4/16/11 5:20am]

I'm listening 2 the song and reading the lyrics. I can't really comment 1 way or another on this.

I do know that what he is saying in those few lines is that "you persecution isn't as bad as these peoples" because at least you have your family name (it's not really a 'positive' thing) I've heard similar statements. One particular was Farrahkan(spelling) and he said 2 Native-America "At least you still have your language" which is a hugely ignorant statement.

OldFriends4Sale said:

I do know that what he is saying in those few lines is that "you persecution isn't as bad as these peoples" because at least you have your family name (it's not really a 'positive' thing) I've heard similar statements. One particular was Farrahkan(spelling) and he said 2 Native-America "At least you still have your language" which is a hugely ignorant statement.

Maybe not, but history itself is not always positive.

You can see it as measuring which persecution was worse, or as an explanation as to “why they’re still mad.” The Jewish found refuge in America after their tragedy. For Black slaves, America WAS the house of bondage. Almost everybody was involved in supporting slavery which went on for centuries.

But of course the song is not a historical essay. It's an artistic visualisation trying to represent those facts. Hence, "you might say what you mad about, but you still got your family name," might sound simplistic but it's not untrue, racist, or insulting. It's what people read into it, with their own personal prejudices that causes the reaction.

Quite possibly my favourite Prince album.

Perfect in production....Lovesexy may have been the last album he produced as well as TRC.

Also the ONA tour was probably my favourite tour..the shows I attended were amazing.

The Rainbow Children has it all, probably Prince's definitive moment in time."a feast a feast a schmorgasboard at least"... the album is still interesting.His latest efforts struggle to enter my iPod...

SagsWay2low said:

Spinlight said:

Yes, those are Jewish names. And yes, Goldstruck is, ostensibly, meant to be any of the Gold- names that occur in Jewish heritage. This is backed up by his holocaust comment.

It blows my mind how people can't see the anti-semitic tone of this album.

It's not exactly pro-women either.

Prince deliberately promotes this provocative attack by placing a sticker on it saying "The controversial new album by...."....He was looking to get a reaction.

Interesting that you brought that up, I am Sunni Muslim and African American / Black and I sometimes have an opinion about Jews and or Caucasians but, not so much Caucasians because my wife is Caucasian and was raised Catholic but, my thing is why do 'we' all have to label this or that being anti-semitic. Jews for example are quick to jump on that. African Americans sometimes are quick to call the NAACP or the ACLU but, personally speaking, I think P was speaking the truth from 'his' point of view and his experience. I believe it was more on what he read and what he and the 'inner purple circle' were talking about (with Larry Graham and the JWs he keeps company with). I don't think P had to worry about some Conservative Jewish person (at WB for example) swindling $ from him like I've heard / read the N.W.A.'s Ice Cube was angry and complainin about when he left the group (and went solo). I think it's more then that, Prince experience was different, or so I think ...

[Edited 4/18/11 9:48am]

It's amazing... People go on and on about this album being anti-semitic, yet when anti-semitic content is posted on this website in the P&R forum, they don't give a toss. Talk about double standards...

EmancipationLover said:

It's amazing... People go on and on about this album being anti-semitic, yet when anti-semitic content is posted on this website in the P&R forum, they don't give a toss. Talk about double standards...

Very few people frequent that forum.

EmancipationLover said:

It's amazing... People go on and on about this album being anti-semitic, yet when anti-semitic content is posted on this website in the P&R forum, they don't give a toss. Talk about double standards...

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Look, the hatred of the jews in P&R forum is something promoted by a group of people who don't bother coming into this forum, and a small group they are at that. It's not relevant to Prince.

Prince's hatred of the jews isn't political--he hates Jews because of their last names. Completely different types of hate.

Bohemian67 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I do know that what he is saying in those few lines is that "you persecution isn't as bad as these peoples" because at least you have your family name (it's not really a 'positive' thing) I've heard similar statements. One particular was Farrahkan(spelling) and he said 2 Native-America "At least you still have your language" which is a hugely ignorant statement.

Maybe not, but history itself is not always positive.

You can see it as measuring which persecution was worse, or as an explanation as to “why they’re still mad.” The Jewish found refuge in America after their tragedy. For Black slaves, America WAS the house of bondage. Almost everybody was involved in supporting slavery which went on for centuries.

But of course the song is not a historical essay. It's an artistic visualisation trying to represent those facts. Hence, "you might say what you mad about, but you still got your family name," might sound simplistic but it's not untrue, racist, or insulting. It's what people read into it, with their own personal prejudices that causes the reaction.

I don't think we can measure which was worse, there are a lot of documented things of course. But also some exaggerated things. Like when AA make reference to mixing during those times it's always equated with rape. Which was not always the case.

Even in America Jews didn't find refuge everywhere, America was very much Baptist/Methodist/other and in many cases anti- Jewish. I was checking out one of the KKK official websites and of course Jews are #1 on their list, not blacks. Interestingly Catholics are also on the list.

But Africans were enslaved for work. Jews during the Holocust were to be exterminated. How do we measure those 2.

I think it's insulting, because I don't measure 1 groups pain over another. Slavery in general no matter what time period or ethnic group is hell. Mayan slavery in most cases ended up with warrior/men being sacrificed. Families split apart. Roman slavery in most cases people were able to keep their names language and culture as long as they didn't conflict or advocate overthrow of the Roman government:and under Roman government Africans ie Ethiopians Egyptians Nubians were considered civilized and equal citizens. Gaul Celts Germanics were considered Barbarians an uncivilized and 3rd class citizens. So it's just always different. Slavery didn't exist in Canada so as a whole the European people there (mostly French) didn't/don't have racist ideaology as American whites do.

I worked in our cities Neighborhood assessment whatever dept and we had records(recent records like as recently as the late 1980's early 1990's) that a particular suburb worked in an ordinance that would keep Jewish people out and from buying property there.

Again, anyone talk to the Native-Americans that were put on the reservations where they used to move according to the seasons. And beaten if heard speaking their language who's pain is worse ... I just don't give into measuring it.

LOL ok I just realized i'm off topic so I'll stop.

[Edited 4/18/11 11:15am]

November 2001 Rainbow Children

1.The Rainbow Children
2.Muse 2 The Pharaoh
3.Digital Garden
4.The Work,Part 1
5. Everywhere
6.The Sensual Everafter
7.Mellow
8.1+1+1=3
9. Deconstruction
10.Wedding Feast
11.She Loves Me 4 Me
12.Family Name
13.The Everlasting Now
14Last December

She Loves Me 4 Me

With this one I can be what I wanna be
I don't have 2 live up 2 no one's fantasy
I could write another 300 melodies
2 her it's just 3, cuz this one, she loves me 4 me

With this one I don't even have 2 comb my hair
I can wear what I want 2 or nothing - she don't care
I don't even have 2 take her on the rollercoaster, see?
Cuz this one, this one, she loves me 4 me

In the morning
When I rise and see her eyes look deep into mine
I find a better place

This one I can tell all my secrets 2
I don't need 2 make her swear she would never tell anywho
Besides I'm the only one she ever really wants 2 see
Cuz this one, honestly, she loves me 4 me

When the night falls
And she calls
I run 2 her side
Cuz she got the ride that I like 2 ride
I like 2 ride it

This one I can take over my momma's house
And I don't have 2 worry what goes in and out her mouth
All she needs is just a little gratuity
She don't like no beef, uh, she just loves me 4 me
She just loves me 4 me
This one, this one, oh, she loves me 4 me

Tremolina said:

Prince plays the guitar so fine, so hard, so smooth, so rough, so cool, so funky...

On EACH song!

Excellent doesn't even equal the qualification that it deserves.

Same goes for LG's and JB's work.

SIMPLY OUTSTANDING

SOUL MOVING

I think Prince's guitar playing, (like everything else in "art") is subjective. As a guitarist who has studied for years on my own and having also gone to one on the best jazz schools in the world I find his guitar playing to be weaker than piss on this album.

The woman disagrees with Prince's view, so she's wrong and gets cast out. Because remember: Prince has all the answers and everyone with a different opinion, (unless you're an old musical idol) is wrong.

Let's hear your playing then, steakfinger.

steakfinger said:

The woman disagrees with Prince's view, so she's wrong and gets cast out. Because remember: Prince has all the answers and everyone with a different opinion, (unless you're an old musical idol) is wrong.

Ain't no room for disagree.

Spinlight said:

skywalker said:

Are you intentionally being ironic/funny by using "African American" names that are some of the most classic examples of slave names?

No, I googled the most popular African American names. Was Prince being funny or ironic by using names like Rosenbloom and Goldstruck?

I think he was trying to be ironic and failed in the attempt. Instead, he left his message mixed and up for mis-interpretation.

SagsWay2low said:

EmancipationLover said:

It's amazing... People go on and on about this album being anti-semitic, yet when anti-semitic content is posted on this website in the P&R forum, they don't give a toss. Talk about double standards...

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Look, the hatred of the jews in P&R forum is something promoted by a group of people who don't bother coming into this forum, and a small group they are at that. It's not relevant to Prince.

Prince's hatred of the jews isn't political--he hates Jews because of their last names. Completely different types of hate.

O.k., so you're using the same website that some anti-semites use to spill their hate in a certain sub-forum, but since you don't use that sub-forum and it's not that popular, it doesn't matter to you. On the other hand, some stupid song lyrics on an album by an aging popstar wearing too much makeup, which might eventually be prone to mis-interpretation, require a 150-post discussion with people getting upset because of the song lyrics. Mkaaay...

And it's a really interesting logic that you think there is a political hatred of the Jews (does that make it o.k.?) and a non-political one, and that there is the need to differentiate between the two. So if Prince just had written some anti-Israelian lyrics, that would make it acceptable???

Besides, where in the song is it mentioned that he hates Jews because of their last names??? "Nice to meet you, Mr. xxx" - that is hatred? The political or the non-political one? The P&R forum or the M&M forum one?