Name anyone who isnt a hard core PRince fan who bought the album and read the lyrics who even knows - or cares - what the lyrics are in TRC. Lyrics dont mean anything in pop music unless its a chorus or hook that the lowerst common denominator can recall easily after constant repetition on the radio and in the clubs. Blaming the lack of commercial or critical succes on the lyrics is shortsighted and just plain wrong. TRC is a Prince masterpiece that happened to not be released while Prince was in the coporate mainstream - which means a lot less people heard it and a alot less stores carried it and there was almost no marketing for it. It was also the kind of music that required a higher musical capacity to comprehend - popular music is so dumbed down today that there has been a entire generation that simply doesnt know real music at all - not to mention great genius music like what Prince drops on them. Its like telling someone who has never read anything but comic books to digest several volumes of an encyclopedia.

JoeTyler said:

purplenuts said:

Name anyone who isnt a hard core PRince fan who bought the album and read the lyrics who even knows - or cares - what the lyrics are in TRC. Lyrics dont mean anything in pop music unless its a chorus or hook that the lowerst common denominator can recall easily after constant repetition on the radio and in the clubs. Blaming the lack of commercial or critical succes on the lyrics is shortsighted and just plain wrong. TRC is a Prince masterpiece that happened to not be released while Prince was in the coporate mainstream - which means a lot less people heard it and a alot less stores carried it and there was almost no marketing for it. It was also the kind of music that required a higher musical capacity to comprehend - popular music is so dumbed down today that there has been a entire generation that simply doesnt know real music at all - not to mention great genius music like what Prince drops on them. Its like telling someone who has never read anything but comic books to digest several volumes of an encyclopedia.

The vast majority of the time I would agree with you but in this case I have to disagree. Forget about the general public, among hardcore Prince fans there is still debate about the lyrical content of this album, ten years after it was released!

JoeTyler said:

rialb said:

Which four songs?

The Work Pt.1

Everlasting Now

1+1+1

Everywhere

and perhaps Wedding Feast because it's weird but short

but the rest of the album is impenetrable

Aw, I thought we might be kindred spirits. I also only dig four songs but only one of them is the same as your list:

She Loves Me 4 Me

Family Name

The Everlasting Now

Last December

For me those four songs are fantastic, arguably as good or better than anything else he did circa 2000-2010.

vegasE said:

JoeTyler said:

really?? after 10 fucking years?

c'mon...

I couldn't care less about this album. I dig 4 songs byt that's all...

Then why the fuck post on a thread about the rainbow children. Go and post on a thread about his hair or a pic thread and leave this for the rest of us. [Edited 4/14/11 15:25pm]

wow, another guy who feels sooooo tough with a pc keyboard.

silly.

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

The Work Pt.1

Everlasting Now

1+1+1

Everywhere

and perhaps Wedding Feast because it's weird but short

but the rest of the album is impenetrable

Aw, I thought we might be kindred spirits. I also only dig four songs but only one of them is the same as your list:

She Loves Me 4 Me

Family Name

The Everlasting Now

Last December

For me those four songs are fantastic, arguably as good or better than anything else he did circa 2000-2010.

last december?? hum, I remember that one, it sounds like a failed attempt to revive the glory of Purple Rain / Gold, but it doesn't work for me

SL4M?? really man? it's too corny for my taste...

family name...hum I don't ever remember the melody or the chorus of that one...

in my opinion, Everlasting Now is the killer jam of TRC

but I'm surprised that you don't care for The Work or 1+1+1

[Edited 4/14/11 16:42pm]

JoeTyler said:

rialb said:

Aw, I thought we might be kindred spirits. I also only dig four songs but only one of them is the same as your list:

She Loves Me 4 Me

Family Name

The Everlasting Now

Last December

For me those four songs are fantastic, arguably as good or better than anything else he did circa 2000-2010.

last december?? hum, I remember that one, it sounds like a failed attempt to revive the glory of Purple Rain / Gold, but it doesn't work for me

SL4M?? really man? it's too corny for my taste...

family name...hum I don't ever remember the melody or the chorus of that one...

in my opinion, Everlasting Now is the killer jam of TRC

but I'm surprised that you don't care for The Work or 1+1+1

[Edited 4/14/11 16:42pm]

It sounds like you haven't heard the album in a while, why not dust it off and give it a spin?

You're probably right about "Last December" being in the same mold as "Purple Rain" and "Gold" but it works well enough for me.

I think I took a liking to "She Loves Me 4 Me" because it was a very basic song but still recognisably Prince. Lyrically it could be on any album and it's not tied in to the "story" of the album. The guitar in it is pretty tasty too.

The first few minutes of "Family Name" advance the "plot" of the album but after that it dives into a fairly straightforward funk track. Lyrically it's a little wonky but the music is great.

I completely agree about "The Everlasting Now."

I like "The Work Pt. 1" and "1 + 1 + 1 is 3" ok, they are not my favourite tracks but I like 'em better than about half of the album. Here are my thoughts about the album from an earlier post:

I think the keyboard sounds on the middle part of the album is what I don't really dig. To me most of them sound very lite jazz/muzak/adult contemporary. It's just not a good sound for a Prince album.

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

It sounds like you haven't heard the album in a while, why not dust it off and give it a spin?

You're probably right about "Last December" being in the same mold as "Purple Rain" and "Gold" but it works well enough for me.

I think I took a liking to "She Loves Me 4 Me" because it was a very basic song but still recognisably Prince. Lyrically it could be on any album and it's not tied in to the "story" of the album. The guitar in it is pretty tasty too.

The first few minutes of "Family Name" advance the "plot" of the album but after that it dives into a fairly straightforward funk track. Lyrically it's a little wonky but the music is great.

I completely agree about "The Everlasting Now."

I like "The Work Pt. 1" and "1 + 1 + 1 is 3" ok, they are not my favourite tracks but I like 'em better than about half of the album. Here are my thoughts about the album from an earlier post:

I do really enjoy the last four songs ("She Loves Me 4 Me," "Family Name," "The Everlasting Now" and "Last December"). These songs seem much more animated than the rest of the album and are among the best music he has recorded in the last ten years. There's a huge chunk in the middle of the album ("Muse 2 The Pharaoh," "Digital Garden," "Everywhere," "The Sensual Everafter," "Mellow" and "Deconstruction") that just bores me. This is where the lite jazz aspect of the album rears it's head. Maybe if these songs hit a little harder I would like them more but they all seem very passive and don't really demand to be heard. The rest of the album ("The Rainbow Children," "The Work, Pt. 1" and "1 + 1 + 1 = 3") is ok but nothing exceptional. I like these tracks well enough but I feel like he has covered this ground before and done it better.

I think the keyboard sounds on the middle part of the album is what I don't really dig. To me most of them sound very lite jazz/muzak/adult contemporary. It's just not a good sound for a Prince album.

Oh yeah I agree, that keyboard sound, plus the excessive lenght of many tracks and the JW lyrics truly bogged down the album for me.

But it's true that I should dust the album off , after all, it's the "best" thing that Prince did during the 96-03 era...

Graycap23 said:

Bohemian67 said:

You say the lyrics target the Jews and the song is anti-Semitic.

I don't believe that.

He references much more than the Jews, in the theme of slavery and name-losing.

This project is about:

The Creator

The Condition of things as currently constituted on Earth

The New World Order

The De-Construction of the current Power Elite

The Rebirth of Man on a higher level of awareness. (inner alchemy)

I think the project is multi layered. It's about those things and also tells a very personal story about his relationships with real people in his life at the time as well as his conversion and the reasons behind it. He clearly put his heart and soul into it musically and lyrically and it shows.

It seems that the controversy stems from his habit of sometimes being careless with his lyrics. "Holocaust aside, many lived and died" is asking the listener to broaden their concept of just how many various holocausts have occurred throughout history.

Theocratic Order concept isn't unique to JW but it's rather more emphasized within their dogma/doctrine than it is in many other faiths. He wants his muse, (guess who)? to carefully consider what this means before deciding to be with him.

IMO, he did miss the mark with Family Name. I don't see it as malice, but rather, ill informed since many Jews did not retain their family names even taking into consideration that they still had detailed knowlege of their heritage that the slaves didn't have. He would have been more accurate if he had used names like DuPont, Astor, Rothschild, Rockefeller and other names more commonly associated with the ruling elites, which is what he was really getting at.

The whole thing is a fascinating insight into his inner world that he was extremely excited about sharing at the time and I look at it from that detached perspective.

TRC is musically excellent and lyrically more interesting than many of his other albums. Digital Garden is my favorite and I love the understated sexiness of Mellow. Wedding Feast is intended to be whimsical and it works for me in that context. Only Everywhere and She Loves Me For Me are a little too saccharine for my taste.

My issue with the Vader narration is that it doesn't mesh with the otherwise organic theme of the album. If we're deconstructing the "digital garden" then why not use a natural voice for the narration? It's an irksome contradiction.

Genesia said:

skywalker said:

Okay. I don't think you did. I see your argument with Bohemian, but I don't see where you explain Prince "targeting" anyone with "his drivel".

The drivel is the sloppy, erroneous, thoroughly ugly way in which he slanders a group that, as a whole, was not responsible for the "evil" he is portraying. His target is Jews - as evidenced by the fact that he uses Jewish-sounding surnames exclusively.

Get it now?

I get it. I think we are hearing/interpreting the lyrics differently.

JoeTyler said:

Oh yeah I agree, that keyboard sound, plus the excessive lenght of many tracks and the JW lyrics truly bogged down the album for me.

But it's true that I should dust the album off , after all, it's the "best" thing that Prince did during the 96-03 era...

Emancipation With or without quotation marks.

If you do give it a listen let us know if any of your opinions change. I just listened to it but I'm sticking with what I said before. In the album's favour I will admit that there is a musical adventurousness that has been lacking in his recent output. The Rainbow Children was arguably the last time he really pushed himself and tried something that he never done before. I don't think it was a success but I applaud the attempt.

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

Emancipation With or without quotation marks.

If you do give it a listen let us know if any of your opinions change. I just listened to it but I'm sticking with what I said before. In the album's favour I will admit that there is a musical adventurousness that has been lacking in his recent output. The Rainbow Children was arguably the last time he really pushed himself and tried something that he never done before. I don't think it was a success but I applaud the attempt.

LOTUSFLOW3R and it was a success...

JoeTyler said:

rialb said:

Emancipation With or without quotation marks.

If you do give it a listen let us know if any of your opinions change. I just listened to it but I'm sticking with what I said before. In the album's favour I will admit that there is a musical adventurousness that has been lacking in his recent output. The Rainbow Children was arguably the last time he really pushed himself and tried something that he never done before. I don't think it was a success but I applaud the attempt.

LOTUSFLOW3R and it was a success...

I love Lotusflow3r but I'm not sure if it is unique in his catalog. It's a great collection of songs but I don't think there is anything on there that is new for him. Whether you like The Rainbow Children or not I think it was something very different than anything he did before. For me the great thing about Lotusflow3r is the consistency. It's been a very long time since he made an album that was that good all the way through.

Javi said:

Bohemian67 said:

Great post. I agree with you 100%. I find Prince's religious lyrics much more interesting than the sexual ones, frankly. And I say it again: you won't find a debate as rich as this one concerning the lyrics of Irresistible Bitch, for example. Listening to a record like this, I am happy to admire not only a great musician, but also a rich and complex person, with his doubts and his struggles, and proud to declare his spirituality in a context that usually rejects it (and I mean not only our "secular" societies, but also the pop-rock world -see what happened to a masterpiece like Prefab Sprout's Let's Change The World With Music, for example-).

It's amazing that, almost 25 years after his debut, Prince came with an album as fascinating as this one, musically and LYRICALLY.

Thanks. I agree with your post too.

I'd never heard of Prefab Sprout so thanks for the tip. Listening to a couple of there songs on utube and definitely enjoying. Nice vocals and peaceful.

bellanoche said:

Bohemian67 said:

Most of us seem in agreement with the musical magic of this album but so often I hear criticism for its lyrics and I wonder why.

A lot of people on here don't like being reminded that Prince is a black man. Therefore, lyrics that reference it bother them. Other people like to think of Prince as a horny 25-year-old pumping speakers and singing of sex while only calling on God or faith for temporary redemption for "sin," so the idea of him embracing his faith and living life according to its dictates unnerves them as well.

Btw, I LOVE TRC. The only thing I am not crazy about is the distorted voice narration and Wedding Feast.

[Edited 4/13/11 18:33pm]

Perhaps there are one or two. It's a pity that in this day an age that could still be so.

I don't even hear the narrated voice anymore. It just blends in with everything.

purplenuts said:

Name anyone who isnt a hard core PRince fan who bought the album and read the lyrics who even knows - or cares - what the lyrics are in TRC. Lyrics dont mean anything in pop music unless its a chorus or hook that the lowerst common denominator can recall easily after constant repetition on the radio and in the clubs. Blaming the lack of commercial or critical succes on the lyrics is shortsighted and just plain wrong. TRC is a Prince masterpiece that happened to not be released while Prince was in the coporate mainstream - which means a lot less people heard it and a alot less stores carried it and there was almost no marketing for it. It was also the kind of music that required a higher musical capacity to comprehend - popular music is so dumbed down today that there has been a entire generation that simply doesnt know real music at all - not to mention great genius music like what Prince drops on them. Its like telling someone who has never read anything but comic books to digest several volumes of an encyclopedia.

I'm going to let your aversion to formatting slide. Just this once.

However, TRC is a concept album and he took great care with writing those lyrics. YOU can say they do not matter, but we're not going to sit here and waste time comparing TRC to Purple Rain. It's not the same approach, it's not the same ethic, and it's not the same point. If you ignore the lyrics on TRC, more power to you, but please don't suggest no one knows the lyrics to the album. I do. Back to front. With exception of Family Name because I don't like that piece of bigoted crap.

babynoz said:

Graycap23 said:

This project is about:

The Creator

The Condition of things as currently constituted on Earth

The New World Order

The De-Construction of the current Power Elite

The Rebirth of Man on a higher level of awareness. (inner alchemy)

IMO, he did miss the mark with Family Name. I don't see it as malice, but rather, ill informed since many Jews did not retain their family names even taking into consideration that they still had detailed knowlege of their heritage that the slaves didn't have. He would have been more accurate if he had used names like DuPont, Astor, Rothschild, Rockefeller and other names more commonly associated with the ruling elites, which is what he was really getting at.

My issue with the Vader narration is that it doesn't mesh with the otherwise organic theme of the album. If we're deconstructing the "digital garden" then why not use a natural voice for the narration? It's an irksome contradiction.

I like the linguistic tone of those top two there. I was trying to avoid the $ theme but of course that's what it boils down to. The ones with the most are often the boogie man.

True, Rockefeller and Rothschild would have been more explicit yet do you remember ever writing essays? Changing and changing to improve and draw out what isn't expressed but implied?

I don't know if Prince writes the words first or the music, but aligning the two must be hard. So I get the feeling that the names he used just matched the music and theme best. And yes, with absolutely no malice intended.

Interesting observation about the Digital Garden.

babynoz said:

Graycap23 said:

This project is about:

The Creator

The Condition of things as currently constituted on Earth

The New World Order

The De-Construction of the current Power Elite

The Rebirth of Man on a higher level of awareness. (inner alchemy)

My issue with the Vader narration is that it doesn't mesh with the otherwise organic theme of the album. If we're deconstructing the "digital garden" then why not use a natural voice for the narration? It's an irksome contradiction.

Why because it's going 2 take an act of the Creator 2 end this "system of things".

The "voice" represents a non human (so 2 speak) and thus "digital" in nature.

[Edited 4/15/11 13:16pm]

Bohemian67 said:

babynoz said:

IMO, he did miss the mark with Family Name. I don't see it as malice, but rather, ill informed since many Jews did not retain their family names even taking into consideration that they still had detailed knowlege of their heritage that the slaves didn't have. He would have been more accurate if he had used names like DuPont, Astor, Rothschild, Rockefeller and other names more commonly associated with the ruling elites, which is what he was really getting at.

My issue with the Vader narration is that it doesn't mesh with the otherwise organic theme of the album. If we're deconstructing the "digital garden" then why not use a natural voice for the narration? It's an irksome contradiction.

I like the linguistic tone of those top two there. I was trying to avoid the $ theme but of course that's what it boils down to. The ones with the most are often the boogie man.

True, Rockefeller and Rothschild would have been more explicit yet do you remember ever writing essays? Changing and changing to improve and draw out what isn't expressed but implied?

I don't know if Prince writes the words first or the music, but aligning the two must be hard. So I get the feeling that the names he used just matched the music and theme best. And yes, with absolutely no malice intended.

Interesting observation about the Digital Garden.

That doesn't fly. The minute I heard him rattle off names of Jews, I shut down my attention. I am really over people using Israel or Jewish people in general as a means to explain their lack of success or their lack of freedoms. TO me, that song and him using those lyrics is intentional. It's Prince.

Hell by the time you GET to Family Name, he has proven he is a master with words (check the lyrics to Muse, they are very clever). Its laziness and its his antisemitism showing.

Spinlight said:

Bohemian67 said:

I like the linguistic tone of those top two there. I was trying to avoid the $ theme but of course that's what it boils down to. The ones with the most are often the boogie man.

True, Rockefeller and Rothschild would have been more explicit yet do you remember ever writing essays? Changing and changing to improve and draw out what isn't expressed but implied?

I don't know if Prince writes the words first or the music, but aligning the two must be hard. So I get the feeling that the names he used just matched the music and theme best. And yes, with absolutely no malice intended.

Interesting observation about the Digital Garden.

That doesn't fly. The minute I heard him rattle off names of Jews, I shut down my attention. I am really over people using Israel or Jewish people in general as a means to explain their lack of success or their lack of freedoms. TO me, that song and him using those lyrics is intentional. It's Prince.

Hell by the time you GET to Family Name, he has proven he is a master with words (check the lyrics to Muse, they are very clever). Its laziness and its his antisemitism showing.

So let me get this straight......if u are not saying something positive about Jews.....it is antisemitism? Is that what u are saying?

[Edited 4/15/11 13:24pm]

Spinlight said:

Bohemian67 said:

That doesn't fly. The minute I heard him rattle off names of Jews, I shut down my attention. I am really over people using Israel or Jewish people in general as a means to explain their lack of success or their lack of freedoms. TO me, that song and him using those lyrics is intentional. It's Prince.

Hell by the time you GET to Family Name, he has proven he is a master with words (check the lyrics to Muse, they are very clever). Its laziness and its his antisemitism showing.

Prince may be many things. But one thing I'm sure of. He is not racist.

Graycap23 said:

Spinlight said:

That doesn't fly. The minute I heard him rattle off names of Jews, I shut down my attention. I am really over people using Israel or Jewish people in general as a means to explain their lack of success or their lack of freedoms. TO me, that song and him using those lyrics is intentional. It's Prince.

Hell by the time you GET to Family Name, he has proven he is a master with words (check the lyrics to Muse, they are very clever). Its laziness and its his antisemitism showing.

So let me get this straight......if u are NOT not something posistive about Jews.....it is antisemitism? Is that what u are saying?

Put "African American" in place of "Jews", put "Johnson", "Williams", and "Smith" in place of "Rosenbloom" and "Goldstruck" (not even a real name), etc.

It's all fun and games until you paint with such a wide brush you include every apple in the bunch because you are too lazy to single them out.

Bohemian67 said:

Spinlight said:

That doesn't fly. The minute I heard him rattle off names of Jews, I shut down my attention. I am really over people using Israel or Jewish people in general as a means to explain their lack of success or their lack of freedoms. TO me, that song and him using those lyrics is intentional. It's Prince.

Hell by the time you GET to Family Name, he has proven he is a master with words (check the lyrics to Muse, they are very clever). Its laziness and its his antisemitism showing.

Prince may be many things. But one thing I'm sure of. He is not racist.

People are conditioned to be prejudiced against jewish people just like they are conditioned to be prejudiced against black people. The same subconscious language occurs. Same with gay people and same with any other minority.

Spinlight said:

Graycap23 said:

So let me get this straight......if u are NOT not something posistive about Jews.....it is antisemitism? Is that what u are saying?

Put "African American" in place of "Jews", put "Johnson", "Williams", and "Smith" in place of "Rosenbloom" and "Goldstruck" (not even a real name), etc.

It's all fun and games until you paint with such a wide brush you include every apple in the bunch because you are too lazy to single them out.

U did not answer my question.

Graycap23 said:

Spinlight said:

Put "African American" in place of "Jews", put "Johnson", "Williams", and "Smith" in place of "Rosenbloom" and "Goldstruck" (not even a real name), etc.

It's all fun and games until you paint with such a wide brush you include every apple in the bunch because you are too lazy to single them out.

U did not answer my question.

Because your question was baiting and I don't want to engage on that level.

Spinlight said:

Graycap23 said:

U did not answer my question.

Because your question was baiting and I don't want to engage on that level.

Baiting?

My question is baiting...............what are your comments about antisemitism?

[Edited 4/15/11 13:32pm]

Graycap23 said:

Spinlight said:

Because your question was baiting and I don't want to engage on that level.

Baiting?

It should be common sense that I don't think that way and that that, in fact, was part of my point. That not all people are that way so why paint with the wide brush.

Spinlight said:

Graycap23 said:

Baiting?

It should be common sense t.........

Lol.............so now u are a comedian?

Graycap23 said:

Spinlight said:

It should be common sense t.........

Lol.............so now u are a comedian?

Just because some people walk around with hate on their shoulders doesn't mean it should be considered the status quo.

As Prince said, "Maybe they gon' fool the untrained mind, but nobody I know gon' bite."

Spinlight said:

Graycap23 said:

So let me get this straight......if u are NOT not something posistive about Jews.....it is antisemitism? Is that what u are saying?

Put "African American" in place of "Jews", put "Johnson", "Williams", and "Smith" in place of "Rosenbloom" and "Goldstruck" (not even a real name), etc.

It's all fun and games until you paint with such a wide brush you include every apple in the bunch because you are too lazy to single them out.

Are you intentionally being ironic/funny by using "African American" names that are some of the most classic examples of slave names?