Bohemian67 said:

Most of us seem in agreement with the musical magic of this album but so often I hear criticism for its lyrics and I wonder why.

People often talk of Prince's most heartfelt ballads yet I think this album is one of Prince's most heartfelt pieces of work. It seemed he bared his soul and shared his new path, his realisations and intertwined it with a storyline of TRC, still managing to keep it sensual, while also passing on a message of God.

Lets face it, while many on this board may be non-believers, there are still millions in the world who follow religion avidly. Why should they always be cast aside as "wrong" and/or judged on their intellectual capacities, just because they have faith in something that others don't have?

I don't get why TRC is so controversial. It's a basic tale of religious and world history which you don't have to believe but religion and history are not going away anytime soon.

So TRC is synonymous with the garden of Eden, temptation, those who defied God and were banished. A man's search for a true love which he finds. The 1+1+1=3 in my understanding being God must be in their relationship. It's about the triumph of goodness over evil, perhaps Prince at the time fighting his own demons to find peace. His thoughts on sex, marriage etc changed, he'd rather "look within" than listen to those around him. He references Jesus who wasn't overly impressed by the ruling class and had more respect for the poor widow who gave her 2.5 cents as tithe.

Family name and it's supposedly anti-Semitic line is not what people make it out to be. I think he uses Jewish names only because they're easily recognisable, and made a stronger point of what he was trying to draw attention to. Abolishing slavery and slaves being given names is really not that long ago if you look back at history seriously.

When he says "holocaust aside" he is not saying it was unimportant, but synonymous and just as evil as slave trade. Stripping people of their roots and heritage is also a kind of death. He warns those that think of evil things like the former two just mentioned, will have to answer to God, who according to the bible can strike leaving ash and dust. (If God was nature, the tsunami and Japanese earthquake is evidence enough of supernatural power.)

So the album asks you to choose your path carefully. He's saying resist temptation and look after your own history. Make sure it's something worth looking back on.

I don't see why people get so annoyed with Prince sharing his beliefs. They were more than happy to share in his sexuality, but not his mind? What's up with that? As i said, one doesn't have to believe what he believes but I appreciate that he shares his deeper thoughts through the lyrics on this album.

Right. "Jewish names" are much more recognizable than...say..."Smith" or "Jones."

Got any more excuses you'd care to trot out?

Tremolina said:

Period.

Despite some of its controversial lyrical elements and its nonsensical weddding feast and destruction, it's simply excellent.

meh. Too many REALLY great albums along these lines from artists who understand the genre and play better because they are TRUE bands who perform TOGETHER, write TOGETHER and RECORD together.

thedance said:

802 said:

I don't understand how you can The Rainbow Children but hate Larry Graham?

^ Haha... you got me there - very funny,

but... what kind of trick question is that...

I guess I like the music but not the JW message.

I understand that. I find the music to be too generic.

you are all if Rainbow is the best anything

Genesia said:

Bohemian67 said:

Family name and it's supposedly anti-Semitic line is not what people make it out to be. I think he uses Jewish names only because they're easily recognisable, and made a stronger point of what he was trying to draw attention to. Abolishing slavery and slaves being given names is really not that long ago if you look back at history seriously.

Right. "Jewish names" are much more recognizable than...say..."Smith" or "Jones."

Got any more excuses you'd care to trot out?

Why so touchy Genesia?

I don't think common names like "Smith" or "Jones" fit in creatively enough for the song complexity. Besides, "Family name" already references the English in the 1600s and their colonial mentality. The lyrics draw attention to the fact that "name changes of slaves" was anything BUT "everyday commonality." As he references the holocaust in the album too, he stays within the theme borders.

It's strange that the song's final message is about ending descrimination yet you view the song as racist?

"Black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics will be able 2 join hands in the words of the old Negro spiritual: "free at last, free at last, thank God almighty we are free at last!"

It's kind of like "Act of God" which finishes with "Call it what you want except an Act of God."

Anyway, I hope you're as angry about the Slaves' names being changed as you are about the use of Jewish surnames in the lyrics.

2001 was the first time in my life I was embarassed to be a Prince fan. This album just brings back bad memories and I prefer to pretend it doesnt exist.

Bohemian67 said:

Genesia said:

Right. "Jewish names" are much more recognizable than...say..."Smith" or "Jones."

Got any more excuses you'd care to trot out?

Why so touchy Genesia?

I don't think common names like "Smith" or "Jones" fit in creatively enough for the song complexity. Besides, "Family name" already references the English in the 1600s and their colonial mentality. The lyrics draw attention to the fact that "name changes of slaves" was anything BUT "everyday commonality." As he references the holocaust in the album too, he stays within the theme borders.

It's strange that the song's final message is about ending descrimination yet you view the song as racist?

"Black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics will be able 2 join hands in the words of the old Negro spiritual: "free at last, free at last, thank God almighty we are free at last!"

It's kind of like "Act of God" which finishes with "Call it what you want except an Act of God."

Anyway, I hope you're as angry about the Slaves' names being changed as you are about the use of Jewish surnames in the lyrics.

I'm not touchy in the least. It is your argument that Jewish-sounding surnames are "more recognizable." Now you want to change the argument. Smith and Jones don't "fit in creatively enough?" What the heck does that mean? That Prince used Jewish-sounding names purely for effect? Is careless anti-Semitism "less serious" that the overt kind?

Oh - and I didn't say the song was racist. I said it was anti-Semitic.

Are you aware that many Jewish people who came to the US were not able to retain their family names? That they were changed willy-nilly by immigration authorities who didn't take the time to understand a non-English speaker? Or that many changed their names themselves, hoping to avoid the kind of persecution that had driven them out of Russia, Poland, Germany and any number of other counties? Many of these people arrived in the US - penniless - well into the 20th century. They had nothing to do with slavery - or the forcible changing of slave names. And, yet - Prince thought they were suitable targets for his drivel.

Act of God is a similar pile of crap. Disgusting and simplistic generalizations - and a nonsensical premise. I can't think of a single person (with a lick of sense) who would characterize anything he talks about in that song as an "act of God."

Well, it was great to see that Prince was fully engaged in making music again. He obviously believed in this music and felt like it was a majot statement. But it's really not very good. I'm not even talking about the lyrics, the Darth Vader voice or "Wedding Feast," for me I just don't dig much of the music. I really do not like a lot of the keyboard sounds on this album and some of the horns. Much of this album sounds like lite jazz which is not what I want to hear from Prince. Too many of the songs just plod along on dull and unimaginative riffs.

I do really enjoy the last four songs ("She Loves Me 4 Me," "Family Name," "The Everlasting Now" and "Last December"). These songs seem much more animated than the rest of the album and are among the best music he has recorded in the last ten years. There's a huge chunk in the middle of the album ("Muse 2 The Pharaoh," "Digital Garden," "Everywhere," "The Sensual Everafter," "Mellow" and "Deconstruction") that just bores me. This is where the lite jazz aspect of the album rears it's head. Maybe if these songs hit a little harder I would like them more but they all seem very passive and don't really demand to be heard. The rest of the album ("The Rainbow Children," "The Work, Pt. 1" and "1 + 1 + 1 = 3") is ok but nothing exceptional. I like these tracks well enough but I feel like he has covered this ground before and done it better.

I don't understand the hatred that "Wedding Feast" generates. Even if you think it is a terrible song it's only a minute long.

Despite the fact that I do not enjoy the album I would love to hear him try something this ambitious again. I do give him credit for pushing hinself to do something different and, while I have really enjoyed the albums he released from 2004-2010, I feel like there is a sense of adventure that has been lacking from his recent albums.

Absolutely.......lyrics and ALL.

Genesia said:

And, yet - Prince thought they were suitable targets for his drivel.

Interesting back and forth. Explain what you mean by this.

its the only prince album i truly hate.

sorry

skywalker said:

Genesia said:

And, yet - Prince thought they were suitable targets for his drivel.

Interesting back and forth. Explain what you mean by this.

I already did.

Tremolina said:

Period.

Despite some of its controversial lyrical elements and its nonsensical weddding feast and destruction, it's simply excellent.

I've grown to really enjoy Wedding Feast

Genesia said:

skywalker said:

Interesting back and forth. Explain what you mean by this.

I already did.

Okay. I don't think you did. I see your argument with Bohemian, but I don't see where you explain Prince "targeting" anyone with "his drivel".

Genesia said:

Bohemian67 said:

It's kind of like "Act of God" which finishes with "Call it what you want except an Act of God."

Anyway, I hope you're as angry about the Slaves' names being changed as you are about the use of Jewish surnames in the lyrics.

I'm not touchy in the least. It is your argument that Jewish-sounding surnames are "more recognizable." Now you want to change the argument. Smith and Jones don't "fit in creatively enough?" What the heck does that mean? That Prince used Jewish-sounding names purely for effect? Is careless anti-Semitism "less serious" that the overt kind?

Oh - and I didn't say the song was racist. I said it was anti-Semitic.

Are you aware that many Jewish people who came to the US were not able to retain their family names? That they were changed willy-nilly by immigration authorities who didn't take the time to understand a non-English speaker? Or that many changed their names themselves, hoping to avoid the kind of persecution that had driven them out of Russia, Poland, Germany and any number of other counties? Many of these people arrived in the US - penniless - well into the 20th century. They had nothing to do with slavery - or the forcible changing of slave names. And, yet - Prince thought they were suitable targets for his drivel.

Act of God is a similar pile of crap. Disgusting and simplistic generalizations - and a nonsensical premise. I can't think of a single person (with a lick of sense) who would characterize anything he talks about in that song as an "act of God."

Genesia, you are the one that offered "Smith and Jones" as an alternative, not I. I merely took your suggestions on board and gave an opinion as to why I don't think they fit. So I am not "changing my argument," I am trying to incorporate yours into the discussion.

Plus, if you don't mind, I prefer the word discussion, not argument. We're discussing the album here and why the lyrics are controversial. Just coz you're mad at Prince, you don't need to take it out on me. I didn't write the lyrics, I only share my interpretation of them, as you do yours.

If something is anti-Semitic, or anti any race or culture it's racist. So I don't see your distinction there.

I won't answer your" careless vs overt" anti-Semitic statement because I don't believe the lyrics target anyone.

Thanks for the info on the Jewish name changes in the last century. The lyrics in Family Name I believe point to history somewhere between 1600 and 1870 and slavery spans back to well, way way back in history. Actually for info on the slow abolishing of slavery, this list is quite comprehensive. http://en.wikipedia.org/w..._timeline.

I understand the whole thing riles you but perhaps the point of the lyrics is that people forget about ancient history, and only take more recent times into account.

Finally, the whole thing in "Act of God" is that none of the things he talks about ARE an Act of God. Humans like to put the blame there or say "force maejure" nothing we could do about it. However, the lyrics end with "Call it what you want, EXCEPT an Act of God" meaning, it's all in human hands and humans control it so these things could have been avoided in the first place.

ie. the credit crisis, wars about religion, Irak, paying excessive taxes etc.

skywalker said:

Genesia said:

I already did.

Okay. I don't think you did. I see your argument with Bohemian, but I don't see where you explain Prince "targeting" anyone with "his drivel".

The drivel is the sloppy, erroneous, thoroughly ugly way in which he slanders a group that, as a whole, was not responsible for the "evil" he is portraying. His target is Jews - as evidenced by the fact that he uses Jewish-sounding surnames exclusively.

Get it now?

Genesia said:

skywalker said:

Okay. I don't think you did. I see your argument with Bohemian, but I don't see where you explain Prince "targeting" anyone with "his drivel".

The drivel is the sloppy, erroneous, thoroughly ugly way in which he slanders a group that, as a whole, was not responsible for the "evil" he is portraying. His target is Jews - as evidenced by the fact that he uses Jewish-sounding surnames exclusively.

Get it now?

There is no TARGET.

He was giving examples and comparing and contrasting. Period.

Get it now?

Graycap23 said:

Genesia said:

The drivel is the sloppy, erroneous, thoroughly ugly way in which he slanders a group that, as a whole, was not responsible for the "evil" he is portraying. His target is Jews - as evidenced by the fact that he uses Jewish-sounding surnames exclusively.

Get it now?

There is no TARGET.

He was giving examples and comparing and contrasting. Period.

Get it now?

Who's talking to you?

But since you couldn't resist...

Giving examples of what? Comparing and contrasting what?

Tremolina said:

TRC Is One Of Prince's Best Works Ever Period.

You won't get any argument out of me on the above statement ...

Genesia said:

skywalker said:

Okay. I don't think you did. I see your argument with Bohemian, but I don't see where you explain Prince "targeting" anyone with "his drivel".

The drivel is the sloppy, erroneous, thoroughly ugly way in which he slanders a group that, as a whole, was not responsible for the "evil" he is portraying. His target is Jews - as evidenced by the fact that he uses Jewish-sounding surnames exclusively.

Get it now?

As you like the word "target," what was he doing when he was referencing this:

Family name lyrics:

"(London, England sometime in the early 1600s)

We have the God-given right 2 run out of our colonies anyone who does not
bow down 2 our law. Hear, hear?"

"Teacher, teacher what u say?/Did we really come over in a boat?
Did it really go down that way?/Or did I arrive b4 and ruin Thanksgiving Day?"

We found this tape in the Akashic records. This is Thomas Jefferson:

"My fellow Americans, if there is a just God, we're gonna pay 4 this!"

So there he's "targeting" the British (early Americans) and Americans too. He is not only "targeting" Jews.

As Greycap and Skywalk added, it's a contrastive analysis of history.

Holocaust - slavery

Rosenbloom - family name

If you want to back up your claim by researching how man Jews changed their name and how many slaves managed to, then I'll leave that up to you.

Yes the holocaust was abominable. Everyone remembers, it was not long ago. But how about the history of slavery? There basically wasn't a nationality or country that wasn't involved.

ps. You would probably fall over backwards if you knew my surname.

[Edited 4/14/11 13:30pm]

Do we really need a TRC-praise thread every friggin' month???

damn

JoeTyler said:

Do we really need a TRC-praise thread every friggin' month???

damn

Yes, because we haven't finished thrashing out the controversies yet.

Bohemian67 said:

JoeTyler said:

Do we really need a TRC-praise thread every friggin' month???

damn

Yes, because we haven't finished thrashing out the controversies yet.

really?? after 10 fucking years?

c'mon...

I couldn't care less about this album. I dig 4 songs byt that's all...

Bohemian67 said:

Genesia said:

The drivel is the sloppy, erroneous, thoroughly ugly way in which he slanders a group that, as a whole, was not responsible for the "evil" he is portraying. His target is Jews - as evidenced by the fact that he uses Jewish-sounding surnames exclusively.

Get it now?

As you like the word "target," what was he doing when he was referencing this:

Family name lyrics:

"(London, England sometime in the early 1600s)

We have the God-given right 2 run out of our colonies anyone who does not
bow down 2 our law. Hear, hear?"

"Teacher, teacher what u say?/Did we really come over in a boat?
Did it really go down that way?/Or did I arrive b4 and ruin Thanksgiving Day?"

We found this tape in the Akashic records. This is Thomas Jefferson:

"My fellow Americans, if there is a just God, we're gonna pay 4 this!"

So there he's "targeting" the British (early Americans) and Americans too. He is not only "targeting" Jews.

As Greycap and Skywalk added, it's a contrastive analysis of history.

Holocaust - slavery

Rosenbloom - family name

If you want to back up your claim by researching how man Jews changed their name and how many slaves managed to, then I'll leave that up to you.

Yes the holocaust was abominable. Everyone remembers, it was not long ago. But how about the history of slavery? There basically wasn't a nationality or country that wasn't involved.

ps. You would probably fall over backwards if you knew my surname.

[Edited 4/14/11 13:30pm]

I read that three times - and I have no idea what you're talking about.

You say the lyrics target the Jews and the song is anti-Semitic.

I don't believe that.

He references much more than the Jews, in the theme of slavery and name-losing.

Bohemian67 said:

You say the lyrics target the Jews and the song is anti-Semitic.

I don't believe that.

He references much more than the Jews, in the theme of slavery and name-losing.

This project is about:

The Creator

The Condition of things as currently constituted on Earth

The New World Order

The De-Construction of the current Power Elite

The Rebirth of Man on a higher level of awareness. (inner alchemy)

Bohemian67 said:

You say the lyrics target the Jews and the song is anti-Semitic.

I don't believe that.

He references much more than the Jews, in the theme of slavery and name-losing.

So what? Mentioning other things does not negate the fact that he calls out Jews, specifically.

JoeTyler said:

I couldn't care less about this album. I dig 4 songs byt that's all...

Which four songs?

great album with some amazing songs,this came out when eye was still going 2 my kingdom hall so having prince do an album on the subject of jehovah was like WOW!!!play last december everyday that is a peach of a song.

rialb said:

JoeTyler said:

I couldn't care less about this album. I dig 4 songs byt that's all...

Which four songs?

The Work Pt.1

Everlasting Now

1+1+1

Everywhere

and perhaps Wedding Feast because it's weird but short

but the rest of the album is impenetrable