How many of those have we heard? Certainly a few, or many.

Did a few of them make later albums? Certainly ATWIAD or SOTT had a few.

How many were turned into songs for the Time or various other projects? Certainly a handful at least.

The pertinent question is how many of these songs have never been heard?

These are but a small number in various finished tracks compared to the said 100 given to execs for PR that we've never heard (as far as I know, may be wrong):

I Am 5

Katrina's Paper Dolls

Love And Sex

Money

My Love Belongs To You

Promise To Be True

Velvet Kitty Cat

Wednesday

Now that leaves 80 or so we don't know of? Maybe some were Time songs like Jungle Love and Ice Cream Castles, etc. and some Family songs, but what are the rest? Where in Hades are these 80-plus songs?

I find it hard to believe that there are 80 or so songs in the vault from the PR period that haven't seen the light of day. Considering a couple of the B-sides are better than most of the tracks on the album and some of his best-ever work period, you'd have to think there's at the very least 10-20 songs that would be considered his top-shelf work that we'd never heard stashed away somewhere.

I'm of the opinion the vault contains mostly has-beens and stuff that wouldn't create a stir, but if it's true that there's dozens of hidden tunes from the era, then there's an absolute gold mine that's wasting away.

What do you think? Is it all hyperbole?

90 songs for Purple Rain...

That sounds very unlikely.

But see for yourself, all the known songs made by Prince.

Here:

http://www.princevault.co..._song_list

thedance said:

90 songs for Purple Rain...

That sounds very unlikely.

But see for yourself, all the known songs made by Prince.

Here:

http://www.princevault.co..._song_list

I'm very familiar with that link. If we are to believe that the songs listed there are the totality of his work, then we are sorely mistaken, especially in this instance regarding the number of purported songs he prepared for the studio honchos for Purple Rain.

[Edited 4/11/11 1:08am]

90 songs for Purple Rain? That NEVER happened.

There are hundreds of unreleased songs we never heard and hundreds of unreleased songs we have heard. But there never were 90 songs slated for Purple Rain.

At first I thought you were kidding with the "90 or so songs" figure. I mean, he was pretty prolific at the time.

Now, I just think you are misinformed. lol.

Purple Rain only ever had about... 12 max songs that were intended for the album.

Of all those songs you listed only 'Wednesday' was ever considered for Purple Rain.

Even if all of them hail from 1983/84 that doesn't make songs 'that didn't make Purple Rain'.

'My Love Belongs To You' and 'Velvet Kitty Cat' were The Time leftovers, 'Promise to be true' was for the aborted Vanity6 album, etc...

vitriol said:

Spinlight said:

I've seen this quote before, but I discount it as entirely apocryphal. a) because no other source mentions this 100 songs, b) none of the aforementioned songs were ever part of any known Purple Rain configuration other than Wednesday, c) all of those songs are known to exist, but many recorded for other purposes. Recordings were done throughout 83/84, and not everything was ever intended for a project, or the specific main project at that time.

NouveauDance said:

digitalelectric said:

NouveauDance said:

I've seen this quote before, but I discount it as entirely apocryphal. a) because no other source mentions this 100 songs, b) none of the aforementioned songs were ever part of any known Purple Rain configuration other than Wednesday, c) all of those songs are known to exist, but many recorded for other purposes. Recordings were done throughout 83/84, and not everything was ever intended for a project, or the specific main project at that time.

Yep. What intrigues me is he keeps repeating the "100 songs" thing. The quote I posted above is from just days ago. Sounds to me like Magnoli gets a rise out of letting people think he's heard dozens of PR-era songs that no one else has. What if he's not fudging?

Yep, all we can go by is what he said. It's possible.

That number seems a little ridiculous. But I have no problem believing that Magnoli may have heard 30 songs or so. Once you start including songs by The Time, and stuff like "God", "Wednesday", "Father's Song" et al, the number jumps up fairly quickly. Given Prince's prolific nature it's entirely possible that another 10-15 songs of his were played to Magnoli at an early stage.

Militant said:

That number seems a little ridiculous. But I have no problem believing that Magnoli may have heard 30 songs or so. Once you start including songs by The Time, and stuff like "God", "Wednesday", "Father's Song" et al, the number jumps up fairly quickly. Given Prince's prolific nature it's entirely possible that another 10-15 songs of his were played to Magnoli at an early stage.

True, which is why it's almost believable.

Manic Monday

We don't know how many songs he might have worked on for the Vanity 6 second album(God I would have loved that album) songs 4 the Time

What other songs ie Dance Electric? Traffic Jam? Coffee & Cocaine? Chocolate?

If it holds true that Prince records a song or two a day, it would only take him a half year to come up with 100 songs. He said he could have put out an album between 1999 and PR in 1983. With 365 days in a year, it's quite possible for him to have 100+ songs slated for PR since the idea for the movie really began in 1981/82.

I can't remember the exact interview or if it was one of those Q&A that were posted on one of his old sites but I remember reading an statement from Prince -when asked about PR outtakes- saying something like 'I don't think there are many outtakes from an album that was mainly based on live recordings'.

Well, the statement is bullshit and inconsistent, but that's what he said.

As mentioned above, there are loads of unreleased tracks (many of them from the period we're discussing) but that wouldn't necessarily make them 'PR outtakes'.

I can believe that by 1983, Prince had 100 songs he'd recorded that hadn't been released. We're talking stuff recorded from 1974 to 1983. Of course, this means that basically Prince gave Magnoli what at that time constituted the vault.

But yeah, that's entirely possible. Probable even, if Prince didn't write songs specifically for the movie.

.

[Edited 4/11/11 6:50am]

Still, I'm convinced that Albert Magnoli is topping it up a bit with that statement. I mean, try sitting down and listening to 100 songs by anyone. My guess is, you'd have picked your bunch by the time you got to #25.

Why couldn't Prince come up with 100 songs in that time? Is it so outlandish? Magnoli has said this on many occasions that Prince gave him 100 fully produced songs - not outakes - full songs - I'm more inclined to believe someone that had an intimate association with the project in question than the conjecture of a few fans on a website.

digitalelectric said:

Spinlight said:

At first I thought you were kidding with the "90 or so songs" figure. I mean, he was pretty prolific at the time.

Now, I just think you are misinformed. lol.

Purple Rain only ever had about... 12 max songs that were intended for the album.

It's not my number...read... Albert Magnoli answers fan questions about Purple Rain. by ArcLight Cinemas on Wednesday, April 6, 2011 at 12:14am You asked them, we sent them to Albert. Here are the questions and his answers: Christian Irizarry-Wiesemann: I understand the album PURPLE RAIN was supposed to be a double album. Were there any drafts of the Screenplay/Shooting Script that included more music than what wound up in the final draft/final print of the movie? AM: Hello, Christian. The album was never intended to be a double album. I was able to listen to a hundred songs that Prince had written, composed and produced before I had even started writing the screenplay. Out of those 100 songs I chose 11 that defined the thematic elements necessary to enhance the story. But, we needed 12 songs to create the album. Months before preproduction began, I was in the First Ave, 7th St. Club in Minneapolis and heard Prince perform a rough version of "Purple Rain" on stage with the Revolution. After Prince finished his performance , I met him backstage and asked him what the song was titled. He said: "Purple Rain." I suggested that this was the song that should be used for the pivotal moment in the story, after he discovers his father shot in the basement. Prince agreed, and asked if the title of the song could also be the title of the picture. I said, "Yes," and the film from that moment on was called "Purple Rain."

Interesting. Though, its total bullshit. Albert Magnoli didn't compile Purple Rain the album - Prince and the Revolution did. Much less, Purple Rain the song was entirely intended to be the magnum opus for the movie that it was by Prince - not Albert. I'll chalk this stuff up to Promotional Crap.

YODAHENDRIX said:

Why couldn't Prince come up with 100 songs in that time? Is it so outlandish? Magnoli has said this on many occasions that Prince gave him 100 fully produced songs - not outakes - full songs - I'm more inclined to believe someone that had an intimate association with the project in question than the conjecture of a few fans on a website.

I don't think anyone is saying Prince hadn't recorded 100 songs by then. That'd be inaccurate on all counts as he passed that mark years prior. However, there were NOT 100 songs intended or even glancing in the direction of Purple Rain. Militant guessed 30 and that sounds about right (and typical, even, for double albums). It was whittled down quite a bit before it got to where it is right now. But nowhere close to 100 songs.

The 90 songs were also spoken about, on disc 2 of the Purple Rain deluxe dvd set, but i was like 90 song for PR? Uh wat? im sure there are thousands of songs we have never heard, but i doubt there were 90 slated jus for PR, maybe P had 90 song ideas rumbling around in his head 4 the movie, but all thought out and ready to be heard....doubt it

But if so, that is amazing and i applaud Prince on that

YODAHENDRIX said:

Why couldn't Prince come up with 100 songs in that time? Is it so outlandish? Magnoli has said this on many occasions that Prince gave him 100 fully produced songs - not outakes - full songs - I'm more inclined to believe someone that had an intimate association with the project in question than the conjecture of a few fans on a website.

Hard to argue with that!

Spinlight said:

YODAHENDRIX said:

Why couldn't Prince come up with 100 songs in that time? Is it so outlandish? Magnoli has said this on many occasions that Prince gave him 100 fully produced songs - not outakes - full songs - I'm more inclined to believe someone that had an intimate association with the project in question than the conjecture of a few fans on a website.

I don't think anyone is saying Prince hadn't recorded 100 songs by then. That'd be inaccurate on all counts as he passed that mark years prior. However, there were NOT 100 songs intended or even glancing in the direction of Purple Rain. Militant guessed 30 and that sounds about right (and typical, even, for double albums). It was whittled down quite a bit before it got to where it is right now. But nowhere close to 100 songs.

spin you make me laugh sometimes. either you are Prince or you google too much!!

Spinlight said:

YODAHENDRIX said:

Why couldn't Prince come up with 100 songs in that time? Is it so outlandish? Magnoli has said this on many occasions that Prince gave him 100 fully produced songs - not outakes - full songs - I'm more inclined to believe someone that had an intimate association with the project in question than the conjecture of a few fans on a website.

I don't think anyone is saying Prince hadn't recorded 100 songs by then. That'd be inaccurate on all counts as he passed that mark years prior. However, there were NOT 100 songs intended or even glancing in the direction of Purple Rain. Militant guessed 30 and that sounds about right (and typical, even, for double albums). It was whittled down quite a bit before it got to where it is right now. But nowhere close to 100 songs.

Ok...but like I stated previously:

I'm more inclined to believe someone that had an intimate association with the project in question than the conjecture of a few fans on a website.

YODAHENDRIX said:

Spinlight said:

I don't think anyone is saying Prince hadn't recorded 100 songs by then. That'd be inaccurate on all counts as he passed that mark years prior. However, there were NOT 100 songs intended or even glancing in the direction of Purple Rain. Militant guessed 30 and that sounds about right (and typical, even, for double albums). It was whittled down quite a bit before it got to where it is right now. But nowhere close to 100 songs.

Ok...but like I stated previously:

I'm more inclined to believe someone that had an intimate association with the project in question than the conjecture of a few fans on a website.

Where do you think people like me get the info? Hint: Albert Magnoli wasn't the one in the studio doing the recordings.

Spinlight said:

YODAHENDRIX said:

Ok...but like I stated previously:

I'm more inclined to believe someone that had an intimate association with the project in question than the conjecture of a few fans on a website.

Where do you think people like me get the info? Hint: Albert Magnoli wasn't the one in the studio doing the recordings.

Exactly. YODA what you're not getting is that it's NOT simply fan conjecture, it's based upon a collective knowledge that has been gained from EVERYONE that has spoken out about that time period and the creation.

Which, given the success and amount of continued media interest over the years, is pretty much everyone. Alan Leeds. Apollonia. Wendy. Lisa. Matt Fink. Brown Mark. Bobby Z. Sound engineers like Susan Rogers. Prince himself. The Time. Dez. etc etc etc etc etc.

Hell, I did a 40 minute interview with Dr Fink last week for the "Parade" documentary I'm making, and "Purple Rain" anecdotes STILL came up during the interview even though that wasn't the album we're discussing. The phenomenal success of that album and movie means it's elevated in people's minds and has more media interest, so the people who were involved in it discuss it far more than other albums, and get asked about it more.

In all my years of being a Prince fan, with the all sourced, cited information in newspapers, magazines, books, T V shows, documentaries and online that I've read regarding "Purple Rain".... I haven't seen a SINGLE person other than Magnoli refer to there being anywhere near to 100 songs specifically considered for "Purple Rain".

There's simply nowhere near enough evidence to believe that statement.

Militant said:

In all my years of being a Prince fan, with the all sourced, cited information in newspapers, magazines, books, T V shows, documentaries and online that I've read regarding "Purple Rain".... I haven't seen a SINGLE person other than Magnoli refer to there being anywhere near to 100 songs specifically considered for "Purple Rain".

To be precise, Magnoli hasn't claimed that. He said:

"The album was never intended to be a double album. I was able to listen to a hundred songs that Prince had written, composed and produced before I had even started writing the screenplay. Out of those 100 songs I chose 11 that defined the thematic elements necessary to enhance the story. But, we needed 12 songs to create the album."

He just said that he was given a hundred Prince songs. If these were recorded for the PR project, just recorded in the same era or old outtakes remains open for discussion and speculation. The only obvious thing is that it couldn't be released material as it happened in the process of compiling the new album. 100 unreleased songs overall up to 1983? That seems possible to me, and it also makes sense that Prince, given the importance of the project, offered everything he had in the vault when the movie and album were planned.

This would also explain why people like Fink never mentioned recording sessions with 100 songs for PR - simply because it never happened that way. What Magnoli had heard probably was "Prince unreleased - the comprehensive collection" in its 1983 status.

It is fairly typical for ANY artist, not just prince (hate to burst your prince is special bubble) to record 60 or 70 songs per record and then widdle it down. there are companion band releases that went along with purple rain that were probably included like "modernaire", "jungle love" etc.. that were up for consideration as well. purple rain itself has appeared in a vastly different form eg "cant shake this feeling i got" so its safe to assume there are other numerous versions of ideas that may not be a completed or final song but would be up for consideration by a producer. Could this have included future "around the world" and "parade" songs? I have a friend that worked with Rick Rubin and had presented him 70 songs for consideration that got widdled to a single record. Same with Red Hot Chili Peppers and Johnny Cash and even the new Janes Addiction, there are interviews indicating 40 - 60 songs prepped for consideration and fine tuning. If you are a songwriter, not just a music puppet pop idol then those kind of numbers are fairly typical. And even if you are an illuminati sponsered pop star, like say rhianna, with a couple dozen songwriters working together to pump out the next plastic mind control schlock, you often work on 60-100 songs then trim it down to something that is sure to sell millions.

considering prince robot funk 1999 style at the time, i wonder how different of an album we would have gotten if prince didnt have a movie and someone else pulling the theme together. could purple rain be an example of a record that was in essence produced by someone other than prince. thats not to say prince did not create or mix or engineer the record, but that in the case of purple rain, someone else chose the songs and theme and as a result prince had his best and most comercial appeal. it is clear from future releases that prince does not have the ability to put together a perfect record with mass appeal like purple rain. there are always moments of genius but for universal appeal and holding up to long term play, prince really fails after purple rain. around the world has some shit only a prince fan could love, same with parade. sott could have blown up huge as the right set of songs on a single album, but he diluted it with filler as he has done ever since. eventually those with any taste at all eg. the revolution, family, time, even rosie gaines, stop being around to influence prince decisions and his "shit detector" radar has been way way off ever since. the more the theme comes directly from prince the worse the record is. prince could not would not have ever put out purple rain as is without the uncredited production of those who surrounded him .. we would have got 20Ten like songs instead of the majesty that is purple rain. prince cannot and has not EVER been able to produce himself successfully. the further prince runs from this fact the worse his records are. I certainly agree that his quirky stuff can be great at times, like say parade, but without KISS on that record it would have flopped comercially, and we all know it. without the revolution on parade it wouldn't have reached the quirky jazz funk awesomeness that it is .. could have been a whole record of "do u lie" type songs with abolute know critical appeal.

EmancipationLover said:

Militant said:

In all my years of being a Prince fan, with the all sourced, cited information in newspapers, magazines, books, T V shows, documentaries and online that I've read regarding "Purple Rain".... I haven't seen a SINGLE person other than Magnoli refer to there being anywhere near to 100 songs specifically considered for "Purple Rain".

To be precise, Magnoli hasn't claimed that. He said:

"The album was never intended to be a double album. I was able to listen to a hundred songs that Prince had written, composed and produced before I had even started writing the screenplay. Out of those 100 songs I chose 11 that defined the thematic elements necessary to enhance the story. But, we needed 12 songs to create the album."

He just said that he was given a hundred Prince songs. If these were recorded for the PR project, just recorded in the same era or old outtakes remains open for discussion and speculation. The only obvious thing is that it couldn't be released material as it happened in the process of compiling the new album. 100 unreleased songs overall up to 1983? That seems possible to me, and it also makes sense that Prince, given the importance of the project, offered everything he had in the vault when the movie and album were planned.

This would also explain why people like Fink never mentioned recording sessions with 100 songs for PR - simply because it never happened that way. What Magnoli had heard probably was "Prince unreleased - the comprehensive collection" in its 1983 status.

Agreed. This quote has been taken out of context, Magnoli did not say these 100 songs were created for Purple Rain, he just had access to 100 songs and logically by 1984 Prince would have easily had that many songs in the Vault, that he could potentially use for a new album, so Magnoli probably isn't exaggerating, apart from the bit where he 'guided' Prince to choose Purple Rain (lol) which sounds a bit suspect!

Interestingly has Wednesday even been available in unreleased form? I've never come across it even though it was withdrawn from release on Purple Rain quite late in the day.

Sheila E released a song in 1987 called 'Wednesday like a river' but I assume this is unrelated.

[Edited 4/12/11 6:39am]