He'd begin by showing them the E chord, beforing breaking into a three-hour monologue on the connection (hitherto unexplored in modern scholarship) between the superiority of the New World Translation, the reason why the free covermount is the future of modern music distribution, the death of the internet, and chemtrails.

Any students remaining at the end will receive 15 credits and as many copies of 20Ten as they can carry.

electricberet said:

Just think how a formal education could have improved Prince's songwriting. Take "If I Was Your Girlfriend." First of all, if he had formal training, he would have used the correct subjunctive, "If I Were Your Girlfriend." And he wouldn't end any sentences with prepositions. Thus, instead of:

"Sometimes those are the things that being in love's about."

we might have:

"Sometimes being in love implicates things of the sort I have just described."

And instead of:

"Your body's what I'm all about."

we might have:

"I am completely intrigued by your body."

Wouldn't that be a far superior song? Particularly if it was released by, "Prince Rogers Nelson, Ph.D." instead of just "Prince."

I would so skip that track lol...

deebee said:

He'd begin by showing them the E chord, beforing breaking into a three-hour monologue on the connection (hitherto unexplored in modern scholarship) between the superiority of the New World Translation, the reason why the free covermount is the future of modern music distribution, the death of the internet, and chemtrails.

Any students remaining at the end will receive 15 credits and as many copies of 20Ten as they can carry.

Hands up, who would take that course? I would, at least if I got a good seat. It would be hilarious.

The most accurate prediction was made early in this thread: Prince would not show up for the course.

Graycap23 said:

1. Should he take it?

2. Would u be interested in taking the class?

3. What would be your expectations of the class?

1. No

2. If he was teaching, yeah

3. To learn about music theory and application

Another thread being destroyed by the ORG.

If u can't learn a thing or 2 about music and the making of music from Prince, perhaps u are in the WRONG major.

If you think anything that can be learned in this world is also teached at universities, maybe you should visit one at some time.

electricberet said:

He could teach a course on songwriting.

What is songwriting?

Do you mean 'songcrafting' as in 'creating an original chord progression with a suitable original melody over it' or do you mean 'putting lyrics to a melody'?

'Songwriting' is too ambiguous a term.

wonder505 said:

I'm curious. What would make someone from Berklee School of Music more qualified?

Now I'M curious. Are you REALLY asking why a person educated at probably the world's best jazz & modern music school would be 'more qualified' than someone who is a good constructor of songs but has a fairly limited knowledge in music theory?

Really?

REALLY?

vitriol said:

electricberet said:

What is songwriting?

Do you mean 'songcrafting' as in 'creating an original chord progression with a suitable original melody over it' or do you mean 'putting lyrics to a melody'?

'Songwriting' is too ambiguous a term.

If Prince were teaching the course, I would be more interested in hearing about the former. Prince is best as a lyricist when he doesn't try too hard.

^I'm convinced that Prince is really inventive, very intuitive, with a very privileged ear and many more things but I'm also convinced that his knowledge in musical theory is quite limited.

Creativity aside, compositional tools CAN BE taught. They're like a musical road map so that you can know of a lot of possibilities to go to other places from the place you're at.

But, honestly, you yourself have to study before you can teach.

How can you teach something you haven't studied?

The word talent has also been mentioned before in this thread. Of course, the man is incredibly talented. But talent is A GIFT.

HOW ON EARTH can you teach A GIFT?

vitriol said:

wonder505 said:

I'm curious. What would make someone from Berklee School of Music more qualified?

Now I'M curious. Are you REALLY asking why a person educated at probably the world's best jazz & modern music school would be 'more qualified' than someone who is a good constructor of songs but has a fairly limited knowledge in music theory?

Really?

REALLY?

I wouldn't want to take a course on music theory from Prince. But to say that Prince isn't qualified to teach because he hasn't done it before or because he doesn't have any degrees in the subject is ridiculous. The man is a bandleader who has worked with some of the best musicians in the business for more than three decades. He could help good musicians become even better just by listening to their music and offering a few comments and suggestions.

Graycap23 said:

A man who has been in the entertainment business for 33 years, won grammies & Oscar, is a writer, producer, arranger and performer....is NOT qualified?

A course in 'Grammy and Oscar Winning'? What'd be that like?

As for the rest of the skills you mention, they're part of his natural talents, therefore they can't be taught.

How could he train anybody in 'naturally hearing and feeling music inside'?

vitriol said:

Graycap23 said:

A man who has been in the entertainment business for 33 years, won grammies & Oscar, is a writer, producer, arranger and performer....is NOT qualified?

A course in 'Grammy and Oscar Winning'? What'd be that like?

As for the rest of the skills you mention, they're part of his natural talents, therefore they can't be taught.

How could he train anybody in 'naturally hearing and feeling music inside'?

I don't agree with this. I'm not a musician, but I lived in a dorm for several years with a number of graduate students in music. They practiced all the time, then they would put on performances and get comments from their professors. Prince could spend a few weeks at a university and critique the performances or compositions of the music students there, and it would be an invaluable experience for them. You can't teach someone how to be creative, but you can tell a creative person what you like and don't like about their work and help push them from level 10 to level 11. If your idea of Prince teaching music is him standing in front of a whiteboard showing Power Point slides on compositional techniques, then I agree he would be lousy at that.

electricberet said:

He could help good musicians become even better just by listening to their music and offering a few comments and suggestions.

If a musician is good, he already knows he has to listen to himself and to every member in the band. Listening is as important as actual playing.

But maybe there are other aspects of pursuing a career he could really say a thing of two.

Maybe he could give good hints about how to keep a band. His background on that regard, though, doesn't exactly make him someone easy to work with. Apart from all the circulating information, I once talked to a member of The NPG and he said the pressure in Prince's band was excessive.

And maybe there are a few more examples of 'subjects' he could 'teach'. But certainly none of them is technical songcrafting or harmony knowledge.

The guy is mainly visceral. How can you teach something that happens to you naturally and that most probably you couldn't explain yourself how or why it happens?

electricberet said:

I can't listen to any music written or recorded by someone who lacks at least a master's degree.

So you listen to Puff Daddy? I think he went to college, but I don't know if he finished or not.

MickyDolenz said:

electricberet said:

I can't listen to any music written or recorded by someone who lacks at least a master's degree.

So you listen to Puff Daddy? I think he went to college, but I don't know if he finished or not.

I used to like the Rolling Stones, but then I heard that Mick Jagger never finished his degree at the London School of Economics, so I had to give them up. If only he had achieved his full potential.

electricberet said:

MickyDolenz said:

So you listen to Puff Daddy? I think he went to college, but I don't know if he finished or not.

I used to like the Rolling Stones, but then I heard that Mick Jagger never finished his degree at the London School of Economics, so I had to give them up. If only he had achieved his full potential.

B.B. King didn't finish high school, but has several honorary degrees. Does that count?

MickyDolenz said:

electricberet said:

I used to like the Rolling Stones, but then I heard that Mick Jagger never finished his degree at the London School of Economics, so I had to give them up. If only he had achieved his full potential.

B.B. King didn't finish high school, but has several honorary degrees. Does that count?

I suppose so, if the degrees in question are prestigious enough. Maybe one day Prince will get an honorary degree and won't have to fake the funk anymore.

electricberet said:

If your idea of Prince teaching music is him standing in front of a whiteboard showing Power Point slides on compositional techniques, then I agree he would be lousy at that.

If you really want to see the music from the inside, you have countless hours of blackboard ahead. In fact, music theory is more akin to math study than to any sort of 'inspiration pursuing'.

Harmony and musical theory are subjects created by mankind so as to explain why all the things that may happen NATURALLY in music (and how it is perceived by the human ear) do actually happen. It's like a kind of 'code' created for the purpose. You HAVE TO convert natural facts into an understandable code so that it can be TRANSMITTED: explained and explored further.

If music theory says that the 3 basic pillars of a tonality are grades (i.e. 'notes') 1, 4 and 5 of the scale it's not because someone who was very bored once decided that was it. It was because how physical sound transmission in the air and human ear functioning had been studied and scrutinized as well as the human brain's way of perceiving those sounds and the interactions amongst them.

There are only 12 sounds. Look no further. There ain't more.

Now go pick the most sublime orchestral symphony, arranged for some 70 musicians. All the wealth of arrangements (underlinings, parallel melodies, counterpoints, etc...) that you're hearing are made up with SOME (not even ALL) of those 12 sounds.

Needless to say, you have to study a fucking lot if you want to learn how to create a whole and complex musical universe (like a symphony) when all the basic material you have is just 12 fucking isolated sounds.

Can you handle chords and create progressions with them without actually knowing how and why these chords are formed? Of course you can. But you're definitely missing a lot of things (i.e. possibilities) by taking the shortcut.

On the other hand, can you create something sublime when you have a flabbergasting musical theory knowledge but you're too dumb to put 2 and 2 togheter? Of course not.

Sorry for the long post, but I just tried to explain why there's such a big difference between just 'feeling things and more or less finding the way to express what you feel' and 'having a wealth of paths to drive an astounding innate creativity through'.

That's why I said that Prince is nowhere near a Berklee bachelor when it comes to TRANSMITTING pure music-crafting.

electricberet said:

Just think how a formal education could have improved Prince's songwriting. Take "If I Was Your Girlfriend." First of all, if he had formal training, he would have used the correct subjunctive, "If I Were Your Girlfriend." And he wouldn't end any sentences with prepositions. Thus, instead of:

"Sometimes those are the things that being in love's about."

we might have:

"Sometimes being in love implicates things of the sort I have just described."

And instead of:

"Your body's what I'm all about."

we might have:

"I am completely intrigued by your body."

Wouldn't that be a far superior song? Particularly if it was released by, "Prince Rogers Nelson, Ph.D." instead of just "Prince."

I believe the subject was about his ability as a teacher, not as a songwriter.

Graycap23 said:

1. Should he take it?

2. Would u be interested in taking the class?

3. What would be your expectations of the class?

[Edited 4/6/11 6:22am]

1. No. But if he comes to my university....YES!! ^_^

2. OF COURSE!!! And I'll get an A

3. MUSICOLOGY 101; the studies of Popular Music(focused on 20th century)

From Prince, I'd also love to learn about Music Theory; field of study that describes the elements of music and includes the development and application of methods for composing and for analyzing music through both notation and, on occasion, musical sound itself.

All jokes aside, I think he needs to come to university to at least give a speech!!

vitriol said:

electricberet said:

If your idea of Prince teaching music is him standing in front of a whiteboard showing Power Point slides on compositional techniques, then I agree he would be lousy at that.

If you really want to see the music from the inside, you have countless hours of blackboard ahead. In fact, music theory is more akin to math study than to any sort of 'inspiration pursuing'.

Harmony and musical theory are subjects created by mankind so as to explain why all the things that may happen NATURALLY in music (and how it is perceived by the human ear) do actually happen. It's like a kind of 'code' created for the purpose. You HAVE TO convert natural facts into an understandable code so that it can be TRANSMITTED: explained and explored further.

If music theory says that the 3 basic pillars of a tonality are grades (i.e. 'notes') 1, 4 and 5 of the scale it's not because someone who was very bored once decided that was it. It was because how physical sound transmission in the air and human ear functioning had been studied and scrutinized as well as the human brain's way of perceiving those sounds and the interactions amongst them.

There are only 12 sounds. Look no further. There ain't more.

Now go pick the most sublime orchestral symphony, arranged for some 70 musicians. All the wealth of arrangements (underlinings, parallel melodies, counterpoints, etc...) that you're hearing are made up with SOME (not even ALL) of those 12 sounds.

Needless to say, you have to study a fucking lot if you want to learn how to create a whole and complex musical universe (like a symphony) when all the basic material you have is just 12 fucking isolated sounds.

Can you handle chords and create progressions with them without actually knowing how and why these chords are formed? Of course you can. But you're definitely missing a lot of things (i.e. possibilities) by taking the shortcut.

On the other hand, can you create something sublime when you have a flabbergasting musical theory knowledge but you're too dumb to put 2 and 2 togheter? Of course not.

Sorry for the long post, but I just tried to explain why there's such a big difference between just 'feeling things and more or less finding the way to express what you feel' and 'having a wealth of paths to drive an astounding innate creativity through'.

That's why I said that Prince is nowhere near a Berklee bachelor when it comes to TRANSMITTING pure music-crafting.

I'm sure people trained in music theory have useful things to teach music students. But I suspect that Berklee (or any other music school) would be happy to bring Prince in for a short residency if he decided he wanted to teach for some reason, and that the students would derive some benefit from his teaching if he put any effort into it. I can't imagine him wanting to do this, so it's kind of like debating what Mozart would have been like as a piano teacher.

errant said:

electricberet said:

Just think how a formal education could have improved Prince's songwriting. Take "If I Was Your Girlfriend." First of all, if he had formal training, he would have used the correct subjunctive, "If I Were Your Girlfriend." And he wouldn't end any sentences with prepositions. Thus, instead of:

"Sometimes those are the things that being in love's about."

we might have:

"Sometimes being in love implicates things of the sort I have just described."

And instead of:

"Your body's what I'm all about."

we might have:

"I am completely intrigued by your body."

Wouldn't that be a far superior song? Particularly if it was released by, "Prince Rogers Nelson, Ph.D." instead of just "Prince."

I believe the subject was about his ability as a teacher, not as a songwriter.

My face is red. I stand corrected.

Graycap23 said:

1. Should he take it?

2. Would u be interested in taking the class?

3. What would be your expectations of the class?

[Edited 4/6/11 6:22am]

I don't know if he has the patience to teach. Has it ever been written in any bios he's given music lessons?

jaawwnn said:

1) No.

2) Yes.

3) Him not turning up.

I went to Berklee & I could see him as a guest instructor for the day (on music biz, songwriting, performance, music production & engineering, funk ensemble, etc). Livingston Taylor (James' brother) is/ was a songwriting teacher and Alice Cooper taught there as well. Hey, John Blackwell, Layla Hathaway and Esperanza Spalding are alumni & Esperanza taught there for a little bit. I'm sure they learned so much about the professional music biz from him. There are majors at Berklee (or at least when I went there) that are in Professional Music, Songwriting, Production & Engineering and Performance and many students are talented guitarists.

I dont think it would ever realistically happen though as he is too big of a star, imagine the chaos. Plus I dont think he'd be interested. It'd be great if he'd agree to let them honor him at one of their grad ceremonies.

CallMeCarrie said:

Graycap23 said:

A man who has been in the entertainment business for 33 years, won grammies & Oscar, is a writer, producer, arranger and performer....is NOT qualified?

It's possible the vitriol is speaking to qualifications that a university would

require of all their adjunct professors. For example in the United States, while

one doesn't have to have a PhD to be adjunct, they do typically require at

least a Bachelor's Degree...which Prince does not have.

He doesn't even know how to read music, correct? So while it speaks tons to

Prince's creativity and ability to self-learn instruments (and production?), the

fact that he has been successful in the music industry doesn't necessarily

qualify him to teach at the university level.

I agree with wonder505 - it would be great to see him open up Paisley Park and teach the up-and-comers about his experience of the music industry and music production. I doubt he'd do it, though...

Yep. Open up the Park, serve Raspberry Jam, Starfish Pancakes & Coffee. Schools in Session

NouveauDance said:

Oh my god.

Graycap23 said:

1. Should he take it?

2. Would u be interested in taking the class?

3. What would be your expectations of the class?

[Edited 4/6/11 6:22am]

Firstly, Vitriol. Your previous long post is the best of yours I've ever read. I far more prefer your content posting than your opinions, though I enjoyed your reference to the Bria album in a previous thread.

True, one cannot pass on something that is innate and also "knowing something" and being able to transfer that to a learner are two entirely different things.

1. No. Prince would die in a varsity environment. He's not used to constraints.

2. Would I take it? Sure. Why not.

3. That he ask the right questions to seduce learners in finding their own weakness areas where they need to develop. Also that he teaches a riff or two on guitar and a funky piece on the piano. Something that acts as scale practice but is beautifully disguised as a piece.

Finally, Prince might not have a Bachelor but his talent and experience certainly equate to a Bachelor, Masters and Phd in music. We're speaking ability here and not theory.

dalsh327 said:

Graycap23 said:

1. Should he take it?

2. Would u be interested in taking the class?

3. What would be your expectations of the class?

[Edited 4/6/11 6:22am]

I don't know if he has the patience to teach. Has it ever been written in any bios he's given music lessons?

Someone was giving music lessons in Prince's original version "Data Bank." Specifically, in the fields of guitar, saxophone, and funky bass. Perhaps that might satisfy his student teaching requirement.

CallMeCarrie said:

Graycap23 said:

A man who has been in the entertainment business for 33 years, won grammies & Oscar, is a writer, producer, arranger and performer....is NOT qualified?

It's possible the vitriol is speaking to qualifications that a university would

require of all their adjunct professors. For example in the United States, while

one doesn't have to have a PhD to be adjunct, they do typically require at

least a Bachelor's Degree...which Prince does not have.

He doesn't even know how to read music, correct? So while it speaks tons to

Prince's creativity and ability to self-learn instruments (and production?), the

fact that he has been successful in the music industry doesn't necessarily

qualify him to teach at the university level.

I agree with wonder505 - it would be great to see him open up Paisley Park and teach the up-and-comers about his experience of the music industry and music production. I doubt he'd do it, though...

Yep. Open up the Park, serve Raspberry Jam, Starfish Pancakes & Coffee. Schools in Session for DMSR.