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Both of you just echoed thoughts I've had so many times reading the org. | |
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The real problem is this: Prince isn't competing with anyone anymore, because nobody's interested anymore in what he's doing, whatever it be. I guess that's what's driving him crazy. | |
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Okay, let me see if I could say this all in one breath...that would depend on what you like to hear in his music. I mean we all have our individual tastes. You may like the more rock-based Prince, while I may like the funk-rock and slow jams or songs that have socio or politically-based lyrics, even those with a hard rock vibe where the guitar solo brings the emotions behind the lyrics to a climax, like in the track "Dreamer".
For example, you have fans who like the "Poppy-vibe Prince" with songs like "Raspberry Beret" or ballads like "Circle of Amour" or "One of Your Tears". Talk about diversity....Prince can go from Funk, R&B, Slow Jam/Ballads, Funk Rock, Salsa, a bit of Reggae to a Blues/Spiritual flavor, throw in his Minneapolis Funk, a taste of jazz and slide right over to high-energy Funk Soul in a night's performance.
For those that were born sometime after the Prince of the 80s/90s, and missed out on that era, they have his catalogue to experience as well as his live shows. Of course they will not see the Prince of the 80s/90s humping the floor, but he still manages to seduce and undress his audience by his live performances, even if he's not actually taking their clothes off.
Two artists can sing/perform the same song live, but the one who captures his audience is based on the way he/she performs the song, and that's what wins an audience/fans over.
::Taking a pepsi, popcorn and music break:: ::listening to "Crystall Ball Disc 4" and "For You" Album::
When I mentioned "artists that takes risks" it is obvious his music never sounded like anyone else's over the years, and never really did. If he borrowed from the likes of many (including some of his influences), James Brown, Carlos Santana, Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix, the Delfonics/Stylistics, Ike Turner, Joni Mitchell, Sly Stone, etc., just to name a few, well, he did a good job developing it, claiming it and creatively making it his own.
As far as recently, well, let's put it this way, with the last album 20Ten, it doesn't sound like a carbon-copy Beyonce, Usher or Rihanna, and I must admit the slow jams like "Future Soul Song", "Walking in the Sand," "Sea of Everything" remnded me of the Stylistics/Delfonics/Smokey Robinson vibe, something badly missing from music today, that's worth listening to, as I like all 3 of those tracks. Now "Sticky Like Glue" reminds me of the Brothers Johnson and other groups of that era. I like "LayDown" because it has a Funk Rock vibe, that gets the adrenaline pumping. (Plus I can't lie..I like the "Come on Boo" part in that song.)
This is not putting Prince on any pedestal whatsoever, and by the way, I don't drink Purple Koolaid, just giving my take on my years of listening to Prince's music and attending live performances. Every now and then I'm sure Prince falls and busts his ass like everyone else, who occasionally trips off the steps of life, as Prince is not exempt from that, although some fans forget that Prince is a human being like everyone else, and doesn't wear a crown 24/7. It's no secret he's received appreciation for his music and talent as a musician/artist from many fans, but at the same time, he's also received, some harsh criticism, constructive criticism, and a little bit of nastiness from some of his fans, but that doesn't seem to stop his show does it? Even if he doesn't play every single song he's ever written, for every single fan who demands it. Nice chattin' with you. [Edited 3/16/11 19:34pm] | |
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Yum! ::Okay I'm back::
Janelle Monae is whopping Prince's ass? really? i'm sorry that statement is just delusional
I love Janelle to death, that is my girl, but to say she is Prince's competition, that is crazy lol [Edited 3/16/11 20:20pm] | |
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Prince made 2010. It's a poor album small circles, big wheels!
I've got a pretty firm grip on the obvious! | |
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Prince got his ass kicked by stevie wonder? Um Stevie was pretty much past his prime by the time Prince matured. Prince was the best musician with the most impressive catalogue between 1980-88. I dont know where you're getting this stuff from | |
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I disagree with twilite kid. Prince has handled plenty of genres very well. Soft rock (when you were mine), rock (LRC), hard rock (Endorphinmachine), rnb(Slow Love), disco (I wanna be your lover), funk(kiss), pop(raspberry beret), power ballads (purple rain, gold), slow jams (pink cashmere, adore) etc. Ofcourse he has handled several different genres very well. | |
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I admire Janelle's creativity in her music, but how many artists do you know of today that will make it to "Legend" status with a major catalogue and remembered 10 years from now? See that's the problem today with new artists, can they last for more than 10 years with a major catalogue like Prince, Stevie Wonder, Aretha Franklin. Can they be household names?
What real competition does Prince have with the new artists of today, especially when he's the inspiration for many of these artists, as mentioned by others here. Like I said, Prince can perform everything from Funk, funk rock, r&b, pop, jazz, spiritual, slow jams/ballads, blues/soul, salsa, and rock. The thing is, he is his own competition. [Edited 3/17/11 7:47am] | |
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"If you really want something in this life, you have to work for it - Now quiet, they're about to announce the lottery numbers!"
- Homer Simpson | |
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Not one of those examples is younger than 15 years old. | |
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prince goes in his studio .. takes a dump ... and calls it a record
competition??? prince has not tried for a very long time .. his records blow
since he started sucking .. beginning with gold to the present .. there have been plenty of great great songs that completely blow prince out of the water
mgmt electric feel, kids mia paper planes, xxxo, born free biggie smalls big poppa, things done changed gnarls barkley crazy kanye west harder faster longer strong
and producers timbaland dr. dre
prince music has been embarrassing for a very long time .. he needs to put up or shut up .. back in his day there was plenty of competition .. talking heads, police, janes addiction, the cure, pixies .. prince is good but lets stop drooling and be real .. "check the lyric change" thats the moment prince died as a qualified musician .. after that he rewarmed some left overs and pulled off sign and a few other gems along the way until he ran out of old ideas .. but the new prince ... after the lyric change .. the one thats full of himself .. rested on his laurels and simply cant write from a place of genuine honesty anymore .. its gone .. he is a superficial man now and has been since the "lyric change" on the parade tour .. he is very intelligent but all his music has been tainted by his superficiality ... | |
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Exactly. With the exception of his few forays into reggae, I don't think there's any question that Prince has pulled off a number of different styles successfully in the past, but it's been a long time since that's been his strong suit. | |
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Timbaland? [Edited 3/17/11 8:01am] | |
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He won't be remembered 15 years from now. No really, who is his competition today who he isn't an inspiration for?
Yeah TrevorAyer...you might be pushing things a bit there with some of those bands...The Cure was competition for Prince back in the day?...in what way?...they had catchy songs for sure, but are you comparing like for like?...Talking Heads?...Stop Making Sense was cool...but, hey never mind...can folk see the futility of comparisons?...though we all do it anyway!
x | |
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It has absolutely nothing to do with being a fan of the artist. LEGENDS dont have competition. If there was no Prince there would be no Janelle Monae. Case closed.
[Edited 3/17/11 8:31am] | |
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Duh!? He performs shows of mostly old stuff for the past few years. He doesn't pay his bigger bills or late if at all. He didn't score any big top-40 or similar (for the 40+ crowd) during teh past few years. He didn't win any big award. He didn't do a mvie. He didn't release a DVD recently. His website is down. Etc.
No, just stating the facts.
If all of the above were the opposite, then he could say something about competition. Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry. | |
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So now it's a requirement for fans to spend their days worrying about a musician/artist's personal finances or when he pays his/her bills? Why do that when we have our own to deal with?
Again, no one is putting him on a pedestal, but who is his competition that he isn't already an inspiration for? [Edited 3/17/11 9:45am] | |
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Now you have changed the rules. What is a copetition if it is not a contest? Who was first? Who was the fastest? Who jumped the highest? Who lifted the most weight? In the music "bidness", it is either record sales or money made if you want to invoke competition. Right now our boy is not at the head of the pack in either.
Interesting thing is some folks seem to think that Prince is not trying to put out great music. Trust me, if it is on an album, he thinks it is a hit. It is "we the people" that decide otherwise.
Prince is almost unknown in Asia where I live. I heard Musicology for the first time on the radio shopping in Hong Kong when it came out, thats about it. Cross the border into mainland China and forget it. They Know MJ, Beyonce, Limp Bizkut, The Carpenters (I know,f#%ks with my head too), and the dude that sang Casablanca.
As long as I have been a musician here, I have never had a request for a Prince song. Since last summer I get GaGa and Cee Lo everytime we play.
What are the rules of your competition? I am in a situation where everything is equal and starting from zero. Prince's 30 year legacy headstart is negated by the fact that they did not have access to his earlier work. So they choose with their ears. MJ, Cee Lo, and.... The Carpenters.
PS: Distorted guitar does not make a rock song. It has more to do with song structure and melody arrangement. [Edited 3/17/11 10:05am] | |
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Honestly Princes lyrics are maybe a little too controversial for asia. Besides Prince is far more musically adventerous for alot of people. Do you think most people in asia would understand a album like Parade or a song like "the ballad of dorothy parker"? No. I am sure many people in asia would enjoy a few catchy prince songs but most of his best 80's work is not for casual listeners or those who arent fluent in english. | |
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This is my point. For the most part, they don't understand ANYBODY'S lyrics, so the playing field is level. If this was the 80's, he would be in the mix, as his best work would be current. His present work does not get any attention. As this thread was about competition, I was speaking of the present. It is a different enviornment. A global one, driven by the internet. A medium which he has abandoned. So is it really fair to put a man that is 50+ in a competion with younger folk in a competion that is ruled by youth? | |
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That pretty much sums up how I feel about his work over the past 15 years. There've been flashes of good music, though. I loved TGE and TRC had to grow on me a bit. Everything else? I'm sick and tired of the Prince fans being sick and tired of the Prince fans that are sick and tired! | |
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Even when I pass by that stuff in the $1 bins I just keep it moving.
I'm asking which artist today is Prince's competition, where he hasn't been an inspiration to them as an artist. That's not changing the rules, that's asking a question.
Now I'm sure there's a handful of American artists who are popular over in China or Europe that are not as popular in their own country any longer. Beyonce, is popular in Europe/Asia, etc., as she has made a household name for herself, but not without the help and influences of those that set the stage for her. For example, Aretha Franklin, Patti LaBelle, Chaka KIhan, Diana Ross, Janet Jackson, Madonna, Tina Turner, Prince, MJ and even Whitney, where she is copying much of their styles in her stage performances, and that's what many fans who you claim are not aware of "Prince" or others, are seeing in some of her stage performances--acombination of all of them. A little research is always a big help.
We have many older artists like Tina Turner who, quite frankly in this time period does better in Europe and can fill a stadium faster there, than she can in America today, because in America, her popularity was with her generation and some a bit younger, well into the mid 80s, but not so much as popular with today's younger generation. She is not the only one. I found that after the late 90s, even radio stations stopped playing the current music of many of those earlier artists, I mentioned in the 3rd paragraph of my post. I just feel that the music industry changed, and are promoting carbon copy, manufactured artists and selling them to the public, like they're the best thing that will be popular now, but lucky if they last more than 3 years, if they don't have major promotion behind them. Let's see if any of them will have a 30-year catalogue like Prince. Even when MJ was alive, in the last 5 years before his passing, he wasn't putting out much material, and whatever cds he's had in that timeframe, were not really hits., but yet he was still appreciated. There's no reason for any artist with a catalogue/household name to be considered "superficial" today, when many of those artists set the stage for the new artists of today.
Beyonce shouldn't even be mentioned on the same level of MJ, Janet or Prince, as if it wasn't for some of their influence, there would be no Beyonce and you could see that in much of her stage performances.
Again, no rules changed. Names mentioned like Janelle Monae, by others here, is simply stating that he is one of her inspirations, as well as other current artists who have said the same thing. Many American artists, even Prince, would not have been here without earlier musicians/artists such as, Ike Turner, Betty Davis, Sly & the Family Stone, Carlos Santana, Jaco Pastorius, MJ, The Stylistics, The Delfonics, Miles Davis, James Brown, Jimi Hendrix, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, all of which he borrowed many of their styles from and made it his own.
Now to respond to the last part of your post, who doesn't have access to Prince's earlier work? [Edited 3/17/11 12:09pm] | |
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that's like saying Prince can't compete with either of these artists... Little Richard, David Bowie, Santana, Gary Numan, Stevie Wonder, Parliament Funkadelics... and a whole bunch of others. Reason = all of these are legends, and Prince are inspired by them. If I was a great boxer, I could probably knock the hell out of Evander Holyfield, even though he was the one that inspired me to start boxing. Inspiration has nothing to do with the quality that is today. Yeah, I would agree that Prince still is king on stage, but definatly not on newly recorded material.
Technically he is one of the most brilliant artists on record, but he doesnt release any classic material these days, yet others do. Then yes, he does get some competition. I'm not hating on Prince. Prince is my all time most important influence in art and culture, and I love his music and listen to it every day. But he is not a god. He is a human, and there are other talented artists out there too. Prince doesnt even need to release anything imo. He has released so much great material to last for an eternity. So all in all, he is imo the greatest. | |
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Who said anything about Prince being GOD? Of course there are many talented artists out there. I didnt say none of those musicians I listed arent talented. I work for them so clearly I believe in their talent.
My point is no matter what any one thinks of his newly recorded music, Prince has NO COMPETITION. Neither did Michael Jackson, nor do any of the artists you just listed.
We are talking about two different things. | |
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I agree with some of the names you've mentioned as those artists being around/before his time where he drew inspiration, influence from them as well as competing with them, but that was then. I can put in an album from many legends of his era and go "Damn, I remember that!" and can relate a particular song to maybe some personal or childhood/teenage experience during that time of my life.
Some state he needs competition to be inspired to write "hits" so I'm just trying to figure out, who that can be, other than the artists named in this thread (i.e., Janelle Monae, C-Lo) who have been influenced by him in some way, and putting out some pretty good music.
Secondly, the music industry/radio does not seem to cater/embrace the music of older artists/legends, even if they put out what can be referred to as "hits". It's a different atmosphere in the industry where they cater to the younger, less-talented artists/musicians where many are too much of a carbon copy of artists before them. Even Gaga, who is a total duplication of Madonna, Elton John and Cher. Nothing original about her music that makes her stand out from the rest, which is probably why she relies heavily on her outlandish outfits to keep the attention on her. [Edited 3/17/11 12:41pm] | |
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I like ceelo and janelle, but their music is good because it sounds 'old' quite frankly. They display old school r&b skills and I love them for that, but they're not creating a class all their own, for themselves just yet.
Prince created a sound no one can equal, he had no competition back then, he has none now. He doesn't give a shit if he's relevant. And he doesn't have to.
He's still hot as hell, if you enjoy talent, he's more than relevant. Talent never loses it's relevance, except maybe in America?
Prince is bored. And, he doesn't have any competition. But a bored Prince is better than a relevant anyone else. Of course he wouldn't even bother 'competeing' with todays music, because it's beneath his skill level, and isn't worth his time. Prince is WAY beyond 'relevancy' lololol.
Prince needs (to want to work with) a producer with enough nerve to tell him what to do, make him edit, and push him to recreate himself. I see him at the shows reveling in his mastery, and thats all good. And I cant even express how much I adore him for the maintenance of his skills...Prince is in no ones category, and when it suits him, he'll create another one
He needs to get out of his comfort zone to do that. He also needs to not be under financial pressure to do that....and in this world right now....that's hard for everyone, top to bottom.
I would go see him do anything, so I'm all in, and staying for the duration.
[Edited 3/17/11 12:50pm] | |
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I guess I don't really get that question. I was listing the top performers where I am geographically located. I don't see what an influence has to do with competition. If that is the case, then we have to go all the way back to the first time someone made a record or played guitar. And unless we are talking about a similar stage show or sound, I don't see where influence comes in at all. Do you think a Cee Lo record is like a Prince record? Or a live show is the same? Worlds apart in my opinion.Like saying Pepsi can't compete with Coke because it came after. They operate in the same market and compete for the same consumer dollars.
I agree 100% with your assessment of Beyonce. I mention her only in the fact she is well known over here. Talent and originality is not a requirement for popularity.
Janelle Monae? Sorry, I have no idea who this person is.
Who does not have access to his older work are those who do not have a frame of reference. They were not there during the time period, there are no current hits to make them want to go looking. When talking about a musical legacy, you have to start at the front and work your way back. Give you the example of the band Journey. We shared a bill with them last year. They were largely forgotten until that Sopranos episode used their song. Now they are selling their back catalog and are touring again. That made some people say "great song, what else do they have". You mentioned Tina Turner, same deal with her until Whats Love Got to Do with It. But these are comeback stories. Prince was never out of the game.
To answer your question, I can't. Any mention of competition is bogus due to the fact that all things can not be equal. Those with reference can put things in perspective. I listen to Let's Go Crazy or D.M.S.R. and I am buried knee deep in it. First thing these young cats hear is the synthetic drum machine and Yamaha synthesizer, both of which predate their existence and they tune out. The same way back in the 80's when my dad would put on Uncle Otis and the horns would kick in, I would tune out. "My" modern music had synth, not horns. Guess what happened a few years later when Prince coped a horn section...a new appreciation for the sound was developed. Got to have a reference point.
Do you really want to hear Prince "get with it" and sing a song like California Girls? Is Cee lo going to record an album with a Linn drum machine and a Yamaha DX7? These things ain't happening. And thank the lord.
It is like a competition between a high end Rolex wrist watch and a Timex digital. They both tell time, but one is a freaking work of art with gears and mechanisms, built by a craftsman to last 200 years. The other runs on batteries.
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Off topic, but a side-question -- what is "check the lyric change" that you're referring to from the Parade tour? I don't think I know what event you're talking about...curious. At first, I thought you meant his 1998 decision to not cuss in his lyrics but I'm pretty sure that's not it | |
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My whole point is that Prince may not have competition regarding individual CAREERS - he's second to none. Janelle or anyone else can't top him. I'm, however, defining "competition" on an album by album - present-moment basis -- 20Ten v. Anachroid type of basis. that's what i'm talkin about. i realize that on the whole, Prince's career likely won't be touched by anyone in the contemporary biz | |
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You're point is a good one - this discussion is always gonna be limited by our subjective opinions as to what qualifies as good, or cutting edge, and what Prince's personal feelings are. | |
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